Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Repair or replace

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard tractor
has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I wouldn't dare spin up
the blades for fear that one spindle would come loose and hurt me .
Yesterday I bought another deck and it doesn't have the same cancer problems
, but it does have some cracks at the mount points from metal fatigue .
Since these areas of the original deck are in much better shape I'm
considering doing some surgery . I don't plant to use this mower as hard as
it has been , but I also don't want to have recurring fatigue cracks . The
worst one is at the front mount point , and also looks to be the easiest to
cut out and replace . This would also replace the mount brackets with the
much-better ones from the original , and won't really be any more work that
repairing the cracks and straightening brackets .
The rear mount cracks I'm not worried about , I'll be cutting the mounts
off and replacing them with the originals since the newer mount is
different . Same size deck , just a different year model . So do I need to
be concerned with it cracking again ? I only want to do this once , that
thing is going to be a pain to R&R , and I can't access that area with it
mounted .
FWIW , it's a 46" mower deck with 3 blades , which I plan to modify to be
like the blades on brush hogs , with the blades pivot mounted on discs so if
I hit something it won't tear things up as bad . I'm not mowing the green
at the 15th hole , I'm keeping the brush and weeds knocked down in a small
orchard and other selected areas around our clearing in the woods .
--
Snag


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On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard tractor
has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I wouldn't dare spin up
the blades for fear that one spindle would come loose and hurt me .
Yesterday I bought another deck and it doesn't have the same cancer problems
, but it does have some cracks at the mount points from metal fatigue .
Since these areas of the original deck are in much better shape I'm
considering doing some surgery . I don't plant to use this mower as hard as
it has been , but I also don't want to have recurring fatigue cracks . The


Cracks seem to be the nature of the beasties.


worst one is at the front mount point , and also looks to be the easiest to
cut out and replace . This would also replace the mount brackets with the
much-better ones from the original , and won't really be any more work that
repairing the cracks and straightening brackets .


How about adding and welding in an additional 4-6" of 1/8" (1/4"?)
plate around those areas to spread out the stress points? Since it's
a mower deck, how about a 1/8" plate around and between the blade
mounts, a large oval. Weld a solid bead to keep grass from getting
under it and promoting cancer. Maybe TIG it to prevent embrittlement?
I guess it depends on the original deck steel.


The rear mount cracks I'm not worried about , I'll be cutting the mounts
off and replacing them with the originals since the newer mount is
different . Same size deck , just a different year model . So do I need to
be concerned with it cracking again ? I only want to do this once , that
thing is going to be a pain to R&R , and I can't access that area with it
mounted .


If I had a dollar for every time I wished something...

The manufacturers either:
A) design for replacement every X years (so they stay in bidness) or
B) design for lowest cost v. maintenance issues.


FWIW , it's a 46" mower deck with 3 blades , which I plan to modify to be
like the blades on brush hogs , with the blades pivot mounted on discs so if
I hit something it won't tear things up as bad . I'm not mowing the green
at the 15th hole , I'm keeping the brush and weeds knocked down in a small
orchard and other selected areas around our clearing in the woods .


Would that be the 12 Acre Wood?

--
Try not to become a man of success but
rather try to become a man of value.
--Albert Einstein
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Larry Jaques fired this volley in
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I guess it depends on the original deck steel.


It probably depends more upon whether or not the deck is FLAT between the
spindle mounts. I'll bet not. For stiffness, they usually emboss them
somewhat.

Reinforcement of stamped decks is usually resigned to just reinforcing
the actual bearing area of each spindle flange.

I have a very nice welded plate deck on my Scag Turf Tiger. When it
comes time to repair it, I'll have a lot of options, because it's made
entirely of flat or bent flat plate stock. It's almost 18 years old now,
and still no _serious_ problems, although I can see stuff in its
beginnings, here and there.

Not much to do for it but to keep it clean and dry between mowings, and
occasionally touch up the paint to help it last longer. I mow 7 acres a
week, so it gets used about 3-1/2 hours every week from the last of
February until about the first week of December (Florida).

Lloyd

Lloyd
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On 05/10/2015 12:26 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
The mower deck I got with myvery used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard tractor
has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I wouldn't dare spin up
the blades for fear that one spindle would come loose and hurt me .
Yesterday I bought another deck and it doesn't have the same cancer problems

....

FWIW , it's a 46" mower deck with 3 blades , which I plan to modify to be
like the blades on brush hogs , with the blades pivot mounted on discs so if
I hit something it won't tear things upas bad . I'm not mowing the green
at the 15th hole , I'm keeping the brush and weeds knocked down in a small
orchard and other selected areas around our clearing in the woods .


What a bummer! I have no real hints/suggestions on the repair, just a
note that I've a '60s vintage 312 that has neither issue; only a little
cosmetic rusting. If I recall w/o refreshing memory by going and
looking right now, it isn't all that flat; seems as though it has both
an embossed ridge or two and the blade mounts are lower than the main
deck??? It's also 3-blades but smaller width; don't recall just now.
It's only an 8 hp Tecumseh...

--
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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard
tractor has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I
wouldn't dare spin up the blades for fear that one spindle would
come loose and hurt me . Yesterday I bought another deck and it
doesn't have the same cancer problems , but it does have some cracks
at the mount points from metal fatigue .


How about adding and welding in an additional 4-6" of 1/8" (1/4"?)
plate around those areas to spread out the stress points? Since it's
a mower deck, how about a 1/8" plate around and between the blade
mounts, a large oval. Weld a solid bead to keep grass from getting
under it and promoting cancer. Maybe TIG it to prevent embrittlement?
I guess it depends on the original deck steel.

Most likely just mild steel . The problem with adding gussets is that this
area is curved in two directions . It's at thhe front where it rolls from
horizontal to vertical , plus the front/vertical is curved .

The rear mount cracks I'm not worried about , I'll be cutting the
mounts off and replacing them with the originals since the newer
mount is different . Same size deck , just a different year model .
So do I need to be concerned with it cracking again ? I only want to
do this once , that thing is going to be a pain to R&R , and I can't
access that area with it mounted .


If I had a dollar for every time I wished something...


Would that be the 12 Acre Wood?


Why yes , yes it would !

--
Snag




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dpb wrote:
On 05/10/2015 12:26 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
The mower deck I got with myvery used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard
tractor has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I
wouldn't dare spin up the blades for fear that one spindle would
come loose and hurt me . Yesterday I bought another deck and it
doesn't have the same cancer problems ...


FWIW , it's a 46" mower deck with 3 blades , which I plan to
modify to be like the blades on brush hogs , with the blades pivot
mounted on discs so if I hit something it won't tear things upas
bad . I'm not mowing the green at the 15th hole , I'm keeping the
brush and weeds knocked down in a small orchard and other selected
areas around our clearing in the woods .


What a bummer! I have no real hints/suggestions on the repair, just a
note that I've a '60s vintage 312 that has neither issue; only a
little cosmetic rusting. If I recall w/o refreshing memory by going
and looking right now, it isn't all that flat; seems as though it has
both an embossed ridge or two and the blade mounts are lower than the
main deck??? It's also 3-blades but smaller width; don't recall just
now. It's only an 8 hp Tecumseh...


Straight across the back side , with a triangular overall shape . All
stamped , and it has all kinds of embossed areas . Blade mounts are indeed
below the main top surface . I suspect the replacement was used hard ,
probably commercial from the amount of wear on the holes . THe original came
out of Louisiana , but sat outside here in Mountain View , probably buried
in rotting leaves and vegetation , for at least 10 years . Once repairs are
complete , I'll have my friend who restores old cars for a living
sandblast it and then I'll shoot it with good primer and a decent enamel
paint .
Yes , 3 blades , but I've got 17 ponies under the hood . Now if I could
only get them all to the ground ...
--
Snag
Pretty much decided to go ahead and cut the front mount out , the pivots
and pins are pretty worn and I'd want to weld the holes up a little and
redrill . I'll need to get some cutting discs for the angle grinder .


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My Brush hog mower is made from Abrasion Resistant steel. It drags
in sand and rock and just bounces about without much wear.

Martin

On 5/10/2015 1:17 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard
tractor has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I
wouldn't dare spin up the blades for fear that one spindle would
come loose and hurt me . Yesterday I bought another deck and it
doesn't have the same cancer problems , but it does have some cracks
at the mount points from metal fatigue .


How about adding and welding in an additional 4-6" of 1/8" (1/4"?)
plate around those areas to spread out the stress points? Since it's
a mower deck, how about a 1/8" plate around and between the blade
mounts, a large oval. Weld a solid bead to keep grass from getting
under it and promoting cancer. Maybe TIG it to prevent embrittlement?
I guess it depends on the original deck steel.

Most likely just mild steel . The problem with adding gussets is that this
area is curved in two directions . It's at thhe front where it rolls from
horizontal to vertical , plus the front/vertical is curved .

The rear mount cracks I'm not worried about , I'll be cutting the
mounts off and replacing them with the originals since the newer
mount is different . Same size deck , just a different year model .
So do I need to be concerned with it cracking again ? I only want to
do this once , that thing is going to be a pain to R&R , and I can't
access that area with it mounted .


If I had a dollar for every time I wished something...


Would that be the 12 Acre Wood?


Why yes , yes it would !

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On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard tractor
has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I wouldn't dare spin up
the blades for fear that one spindle would come loose and hurt me .
Yesterday I bought another deck and it doesn't have the same cancer problems
, but it does have some cracks at the mount points from metal fatigue .
Since these areas of the original deck are in much better shape I'm
considering doing some surgery . I don't plant to use this mower as hard as
it has been , but I also don't want to have recurring fatigue cracks . The
worst one is at the front mount point , and also looks to be the easiest to
cut out and replace . This would also replace the mount brackets with the
much-better ones from the original , and won't really be any more work that
repairing the cracks and straightening brackets .



FWIW, I've done stress crack repair by Vee out the crack on both sides
past the end of the crack. Then weld it up to make a rib on both
sides.

I have a Gravely mower deck with this issue. Done this repair a couple
times now. the deck is only fifty years old now.

Karl

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Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard
tractor has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I
wouldn't dare spin up the blades for fear that one spindle would
come loose and hurt me . Yesterday I bought another deck and it
doesn't have the same cancer problems , but it does have some cracks
at the mount points from metal fatigue . Since these areas of the
original deck are in much better shape I'm considering doing some
surgery . I don't plant to use this mower as hard as it has been ,
but I also don't want to have recurring fatigue cracks . The worst
one is at the front mount point , and also looks to be the easiest
to cut out and replace . This would also replace the mount brackets
with the much-better ones from the original , and won't really be
any more work that repairing the cracks and straightening brackets .



FWIW, I've done stress crack repair by Vee out the crack on both sides
past the end of the crack. Then weld it up to make a rib on both
sides.

I have a Gravely mower deck with this issue. Done this repair a couple
times now. the deck is only fifty years old now.

Karl


That's the plan for two of the three , but the front mount is mangled from
running it with the crack . I'm not sure I can straighten it out to be
serviceable , it'll be easier to just cut that section out and replace it .
With some reinforcement on the inside , it should outlive me - as the
original did the first owner .

--
Snag


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On Sun, 10 May 2015 10:05:25 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

I guess it depends on the original deck steel.


It probably depends more upon whether or not the deck is FLAT between the
spindle mounts. I'll bet not. For stiffness, they usually emboss them
somewhat.

Reinforcement of stamped decks is usually resigned to just reinforcing
the actual bearing area of each spindle flange.


I've rebuilt several decks but don't remember how flat they were. I
was concentrating on bearings and blades, or belts. From a design
standpoint, mfgrs must think "Well, we know it's going to crack, so
rather than allowing reinforcement, let's just sell them a whole new
deck."


I have a very nice welded plate deck on my Scag Turf Tiger. When it
comes time to repair it, I'll have a lot of options, because it's made
entirely of flat or bent flat plate stock. It's almost 18 years old now,
and still no _serious_ problems, although I can see stuff in its
beginnings, here and there.


Bueno, bwana.


Not much to do for it but to keep it clean and dry between mowings, and
occasionally touch up the paint to help it last longer. I mow 7 acres a
week, so it gets used about 3-1/2 hours every week from the last of
February until about the first week of December (Florida).


Why do you mow 7 acres a week? McMansion wif lawns?

--
Try not to become a man of success but
rather try to become a man of value.
--Albert Einstein


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On Sun, 10 May 2015 13:17:09 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard
tractor has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I
wouldn't dare spin up the blades for fear that one spindle would
come loose and hurt me . Yesterday I bought another deck and it
doesn't have the same cancer problems , but it does have some cracks
at the mount points from metal fatigue .


How about adding and welding in an additional 4-6" of 1/8" (1/4"?)
plate around those areas to spread out the stress points? Since it's
a mower deck, how about a 1/8" plate around and between the blade
mounts, a large oval. Weld a solid bead to keep grass from getting
under it and promoting cancer. Maybe TIG it to prevent embrittlement?
I guess it depends on the original deck steel.

Most likely just mild steel . The problem with adding gussets is that this
area is curved in two directions . It's at thhe front where it rolls from
horizontal to vertical , plus the front/vertical is curved .


Problematic. How about a couple of little struts with feet? You
could bend the foot pads to match the curvature and weld rods between
'em.

Q: Why don't people provide pics when posting these questions?
A: That would be too logical.
/rhetoric

--
Try not to become a man of success but
rather try to become a man of value.
--Albert Einstein
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Q: Why don't people provide pics when posting these questions?
A: That would be too logical.
/rhetoric


Bitch and moan , cry and whine ... I'll take some pics and post them to my
photobucket .
grin
--
Snag


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Larry Jaques fired this volley in
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Why do you mow 7 acres a week? McMansion wif lawns?


Farmstead with a 7-acre 'family preserve' out on the front -- fishing pond,
shop/barn, house. I could cut it down to about 4.5 acres, but it looks
better and is more 'grand-kid friendly' when it's all mowed short.

This is Florida. It _could_ use it more often than weekly in the summer;
but I'll be darned!

Lloyd
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On 05/11/2015 9:54 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Larry fired this volley in
:

Why do you mow 7 acres a week? McMansion wif lawns?


Farmstead with a 7-acre 'family preserve' out on the front -- fishing pond,
shop/barn, house. I could cut it down to about 4.5 acres, but it looks
better and is more 'grand-kid friendly' when it's all mowed short.

This is Florida. It _could_ use it more often than weekly in the summer;
but I'll be darned!


Hear ya'...we've got about 20A in yard, around the outbuildings,
feedlot, equipment areas, etc., etc., ...

Fortunately from that standpoint in W KS it doesn't have to be weekly
except the "inner yard" that do irrigate some during dry
stretches...that's only a few...the rest may get by w/ only 2-3 times/yr
altho would often wish it were more, particularly the last several years
w/ the extended drought. I think I only mowed once all last
year...that's _not_ good sign.

--


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On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard tractor
has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I wouldn't dare spin up
the blades for fear that one spindle would come loose and hurt me .
Yesterday I bought another deck and it doesn't have the same cancer problems
, but it does have some cracks at the mount points from metal fatigue .
Since these areas of the original deck are in much better shape I'm
considering doing some surgery . I don't plant to use this mower as hard as
it has been , but I also don't want to have recurring fatigue cracks . The
worst one is at the front mount point , and also looks to be the easiest to
cut out and replace . This would also replace the mount brackets with the
much-better ones from the original , and won't really be any more work that
repairing the cracks and straightening brackets .
The rear mount cracks I'm not worried about , I'll be cutting the mounts
off and replacing them with the originals since the newer mount is
different . Same size deck , just a different year model . So do I need to
be concerned with it cracking again ? I only want to do this once , that
thing is going to be a pain to R&R , and I can't access that area with it
mounted .
FWIW , it's a 46" mower deck with 3 blades , which I plan to modify to be
like the blades on brush hogs , with the blades pivot mounted on discs so if
I hit something it won't tear things up as bad . I'm not mowing the green
at the 15th hole , I'm keeping the brush and weeds knocked down in a small
orchard and other selected areas around our clearing in the woods .

Greetings Terry,
Over the years I have repaired several John Deere mower decks by
welding. A few customers have come back asking for more repairs on
other items. I always ask how the last repair I did for them was
working out. No failures of my repairs yet. In every instance I added
metal over the weld repair to spread the load. I usually use 1/8 flat
bar. I always weld completely around the extra metal to prevent rust.
Eric


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On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:40:45 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard tractor
has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I wouldn't dare spin up
the blades for fear that one spindle would come loose and hurt me .
Yesterday I bought another deck and it doesn't have the same cancer problems
, but it does have some cracks at the mount points from metal fatigue .
Since these areas of the original deck are in much better shape I'm
considering doing some surgery . I don't plant to use this mower as hard as
it has been , but I also don't want to have recurring fatigue cracks . The
worst one is at the front mount point , and also looks to be the easiest to
cut out and replace . This would also replace the mount brackets with the
much-better ones from the original , and won't really be any more work that
repairing the cracks and straightening brackets .



FWIW, I've done stress crack repair by Vee out the crack on both sides
past the end of the crack. Then weld it up to make a rib on both
sides.

I have a Gravely mower deck with this issue. Done this repair a couple
times now. the deck is only fifty years old now.

Karl

Brazing works just as well as welding - sometimes even better because
it is less brittle, or softer (generally speaking)
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On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:50:55 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2015 00:26:37 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

The mower deck I got with my very used 1982 yr model JD 317 yard
tractor has an advanced case of cancer , to the point that I
wouldn't dare spin up the blades for fear that one spindle would
come loose and hurt me . Yesterday I bought another deck and it
doesn't have the same cancer problems , but it does have some cracks
at the mount points from metal fatigue . Since these areas of the
original deck are in much better shape I'm considering doing some
surgery . I don't plant to use this mower as hard as it has been ,
but I also don't want to have recurring fatigue cracks . The worst
one is at the front mount point , and also looks to be the easiest
to cut out and replace . This would also replace the mount brackets
with the much-better ones from the original , and won't really be
any more work that repairing the cracks and straightening brackets .



FWIW, I've done stress crack repair by Vee out the crack on both sides
past the end of the crack. Then weld it up to make a rib on both
sides.

I have a Gravely mower deck with this issue. Done this repair a couple
times now. the deck is only fifty years old now.

Karl


That's the plan for two of the three , but the front mount is mangled from
running it with the crack . I'm not sure I can straighten it out to be
serviceable , it'll be easier to just cut that section out and replace it .
With some reinforcement on the inside , it should outlive me - as the
original did the first owner .

Doin't bother cutting it out. Cut/grind off the old bracket, cut out
patch from the old deck with the bracket attached. Drill some holes in
the patch. Clean up the deck and the back of the patch and braze the
patch on, flowing braze metal into the joint through the drilled holes
to spread the stress. Then it could outlast your son or grandson.
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On Mon, 11 May 2015 09:54:35 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Why do you mow 7 acres a week? McMansion wif lawns?


Farmstead with a 7-acre 'family preserve' out on the front -- fishing pond,
shop/barn, house. I could cut it down to about 4.5 acres, but it looks
better and is more 'grand-kid friendly' when it's all mowed short.


2.5 acres isn't enough for a couple of kids?

Too bad you can't turn most of it into prairie, but they like their
dry seasons. (Hmm, maybe not...)
https://floridabehindthescenes.wordp...prairie-gator/


This is Florida. It _could_ use it more often than weekly in the summer;
but I'll be darned!


Wuss.

--
Try not to become a man of success but
rather try to become a man of value.
--Albert Einstein
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On Mon, 11 May 2015 08:26:56 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Q: Why don't people provide pics when posting these questions?
A: That would be too logical.
/rhetoric


Bitch and moan , cry and whine ... I'll take some pics and post them to my
photobucket .
grin


Just sayin'...

--
Try not to become a man of success but
rather try to become a man of value.
--Albert Einstein
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I have 6.5 acres, 1.5 in easements - HV 2-phase, 1200' driveway, with
almost a circle around back to itself. In the slow works. 2 acres of
woods and a deep creek. (6' when shallow. Never dry). So with the
easements and the front and back yard with the sides and near the roads
it is about 4 acres of grass to cut. About 1/2 is St. Augustine
(native grass) and the rest is various field and bailing grass.

My series 1 takes most of the back and the easements. The garden areas
are taken with beloved on her John Deer factory machine. (Not a Lowes/HD
model). (more power and different design).

I have fine cut and hog cut. If anything gets out of hand, I can power
til it down and get a new start.

We have 4 buildings - three water / storm tight, one wood frame wild.

Martin

On 5/11/2015 10:02 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2015 09:54:35 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Why do you mow 7 acres a week? McMansion wif lawns?


Farmstead with a 7-acre 'family preserve' out on the front -- fishing pond,
shop/barn, house. I could cut it down to about 4.5 acres, but it looks
better and is more 'grand-kid friendly' when it's all mowed short.


2.5 acres isn't enough for a couple of kids?

Too bad you can't turn most of it into prairie, but they like their
dry seasons. (Hmm, maybe not...)
https://floridabehindthescenes.wordp...prairie-gator/


This is Florida. It _could_ use it more often than weekly in the summer;
but I'll be darned!


Wuss.

--
Try not to become a man of success but
rather try to become a man of value.
--Albert Einstein

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