A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the 11"
Logan. However, in looking for a 3/8" holder for the shaper, what I
have found seems too large for this 7". (Both in the size of the shank
(too big for the post) and the general over all size which cuts _way_
down on the space available for the part.

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Thanks for any guidance you can give!

rgentryatozdotnet

On Tue, 05 May 2015 09:35:02 -0700, Bob Gentry wrote:

A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the 11"
Logan. However, in looking for a 3/8" holder for the shaper, what I
have found seems too large for this 7". (Both in the size of the shank
(too big for the post) and the general over all size which cuts _way_
down on the space available for the part.

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Thanks for any guidance you can give!

rgentryatozdotnet

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong. However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-4, Bob Gentry wrote:

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Thanks for any guidance you can give!

rgentryatozdotnet

Take a look at Bob Powel's website.

http://www.dogpatch.com/bobp/bobfaq.htm

From his website.



Summerville Steel is now called Bohler-Uddeholm 7010 S. 188th St, Kent. 800-552-5030. Commercial supplier of tool steel, specialty steels. Reasonable prices and minimums.


Summerville Steel use to sell tool steel remnants at $1 / lb and Alloy steel remnants at $.25 a lb. Do not know what their current policy is. If they still sell remnants, I would use 4340 or stressproof. No good reason other than they machine fairly well and are slightly rust proof.

Dan

Dan

Dan

"Bob Gentry" wrote in message
...
A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the
11"
Logan. However, in looking for a 3/8" holder for the shaper, what I
have found seems too large for this 7". (Both in the size of the
shank
(too big for the post) and the general over all size which cuts
_way_
down on the space available for the part.

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will
take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make
a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to
Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Thanks for any guidance you can give!

rgentryatozdotnet

Could you carve something from a 1" Grade 5 bolt from Tractor Supply?

On Tue, 05 May 2015 09:35:02 -0700, Bob Gentry wrote:

A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the 11"
Logan. However, in looking for a 3/8" holder for the shaper, what I
have found seems too large for this 7". (Both in the size of the shank
(too big for the post) and the general over all size which cuts _way_
down on the space available for the part.

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Thanks for any guidance you can give!

rgentryatozdotnet

I would expect low carbon steel would stand up OK to light use in a
small machine like that. If I have the right picture in my head, the
most vulnerable point will be the clamping surfaces that bear on the
tool.

For low carbon, 1018 cold drawn is easily available in most any
dimensions.

A more durable option is pre-hardened chrome-moly. The exact alloy
will vary depending on the source, but pre-hard will be of the
4140/4142/4340 family and approx Rc28, almost twice as strong as cold
finished 1018.

--
Ned Simmons

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 11:35:02 AM UTC-5, Bob Gentry wrote:
A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the 11"
Logan. However, in looking for a 3/8" holder for the shaper, what I
have found seems too large for this 7". (Both in the size of the shank
(too big for the post) and the general over all size which cuts _way_
down on the space available for the part.

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Thanks for any guidance you can give!

rgentryatozdotnet

First off, your 3/8 in tools will fit directly in the tool post and do 99% of all your shaping. One tip, back up the tool in the holder with a piece of 3/8 keystock, if your setup requires a lot of tool extension this will add stiffness to the tip.
I have an armstrong adjustable for my ammco and I've used it only once.

Adjustable tool holders have two advantages, they hold short toolbits and they are good for getting into pockets. The length of the carbide toolholder will pretty much cancel out both of those.

I'd wait until I could steal a decent toolholder and resign myself to grinding HSS for it. In the meantime use your carbide in the toolpost and make chips.

Another tip. For cutting keyways, I take the clapper box and swivel clean off of mine. I made boring bar style bitholder with a 1/2-20 thread on the back. I thread it into the hole for the swivel screw and lock it with a jam nut and a washer.

On Tue, 5 May 2015 13:17:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Bob Gentry" wrote in message
.. .
A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the
11"
Logan. However, in looking for a 3/8" holder for the shaper, what I
have found seems too large for this 7". (Both in the size of the
shank
(too big for the post) and the general over all size which cuts
_way_
down on the space available for the part.

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will
take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make
a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to
Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Thanks for any guidance you can give!

rgentryatozdotnet

Could you carve something from a 1" Grade 5 bolt from Tractor Supply?


I actually seldom use a tool holder on my 8" Logan. I simply stick
the bit in the clamp itself. Only time I need a holder is when the
cutter is very short.

Ive made em out of just about any material, but 4140, or Stressproof
etc etc all work find. It just needs to be stiff enough not to bend
under stroke load.

Glad you are liking the wee criter (Grin)

Gunner, off to LA once again.

On Tue, 5 May 2015 13:17:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

snip

Could you carve something from a 1" Grade 5 bolt from Tractor Supply?


The raw block for the three main parts would have to be about
1.5x1.5x7". But thanks for another idea

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong. However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this application
(just to try something new) ?

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

On Tue, 5 May 2015 10:16:04 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

snip

Take a look at Bob Powel's website.

http://www.dogpatch.com/bobp/bobfaq.htm

From his website.



Summerville Steel is now called Bohler-Uddeholm 7010 S. 188th St, Kent. 800-552-5030. Commercial supplier of tool steel, specialty steels. Reasonable prices and minimums.
snip
Dan

Thanks Dan

Looks like they deal in (what I would call) some very exotic stuff
grin.
Didn't see a 'cutoffs' section but will take another look when I
decide what to use.

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

On Tue, 05 May 2015 11:28:11 -0700, Bob Gentry wrote:

On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong. However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this application
(just to try something new) ?

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

It's very nice to machine. No problem, in general.

I haven't looked at a shaper toolholder for a long time -- probably
never for an insert type -- but the only general weakness of mild
steel for tooling is in threads for clamp screws. If there's enough
length and meat in there, you shouldn't notice any difference versus a
piece of D2 tool steel.

Brit hobby magazines used to make this point often: Unless you intend
to beat the crap out of your tools, there aren't a lot of
applications, except for the cutting edges themselves, where mild
steel won't serve just as well as an expensive tool steel.

The stiffnesses of different grades of steel all fall within a very
narrow range. Stainless is about 7% - 10% lower; otherwise, there
isn't much to choose in terms of stiffness.

--
Ed Huntress

"Bob Gentry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 May 2015 13:17:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

snip

Could you carve something from a 1" Grade 5 bolt from Tractor
Supply?


The raw block for the three main parts would have to be about
1.5x1.5x7". But thanks for another idea

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

Another source of fairly hard but still machineable steel is scraps of
cylinder rod from the scrap heap or cutoff bin of a hydraulic cylinder
repair shop. It's case-hardened.

Before I found the Multifix I used a lantern post I made from a bolt
and homebrew tool bit holders on my lathe. The weak spots that need
harder steel are the clamp screw threads and their contacts on the top
of the tool holder, and maybe the end under the cutting bit that
supports the cutting force, if the bit isn't well clamped. The clamp
screws will mushroom and be very difficult to remove if they aren't
hardened.

-jsw

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 2:40:55 PM UTC-4, Bob Gentry wrote:


Thanks Dan

Looks like they deal in (what I would call) some very exotic stuff
grin.
Didn't see a 'cutoffs' section but will take another look when I
decide what to use.

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

Unless things have changed, there is no cutoff section on the web site. You just enter through the front door , tell them that you want to see what is available in remnants, and go on back to the shop area. Ask one of the shop employees where the remnants are. After you find what you want, they will weigh your stuff and write a bill. Pay in the office.

Dan

On Tue, 5 May 2015 10:56:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

First off, your 3/8 in tools will fit directly in the tool post and do 99% of all your shaping.

.. . . . . . . OK....sigh . . . . now. . I officially feel Dumb!!!
That thought never entered my head.

One tip, back up the tool in the holder with a piece of 3/8 keystock, if your setup requires a lot of tool extension this will add stiffness to the tip.

Great idea! Thank You!

I have an armstrong adjustable for my ammco and I've used it only once.

Adjustable tool holders have two advantages, they hold short toolbits and they are good for getting into pockets. The length of the carbide toolholder will pretty much cancel out both of those.

I'd wait until I could steal a decent toolholder and resign myself to grinding HSS for it.

I have ground a couple of HSS toolbits for it. First one worked 'ok'.
2nd one much better. Found that a 4.5" grinder with a new, sharp edge
wheel, sure cuts faster than my bench grinder. Hand grinder to rough
and bench to finish seems to work well.

In the meantime use your carbide in the toolpost and make chips.

Tried that mounting and it works like a champ. Thanks again!

Another tip. For cutting keyways, I take the clapper box and swivel clean off of mine. I made boring bar style bitholder with a 1/2-20 thread on the back. I thread it into the hole for the swivel screw and lock it with a jam nut and a washer.

This unit came with both the orig. key way cutter holders. But I'm not
sure how to lock the clapper box.

Thought I could drill and tap both sides of the clapper box, dimple
the clapper at the hole bottoms, and use a rounded setscrew in each
hole to lock. Your method wouldn't modify the unit and should be easy
to setup.

I have tried to remove the swivel screw but it is _real_ tight and I
don't have a tight fitting screwdriver wide enough to fill the entire
slot. Really don't want to ding the slot.

Any suggestions? (guess I could try making a proper fit driver out of
drill rod)

Thanks much for your help

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

On Wed, 06 May 2015 10:48:52 -0700
Bob Gentry wrote:

snip
I have tried to remove the swivel screw but it is _real_ tight and I
don't have a tight fitting screwdriver wide enough to fill the entire
slot. Really don't want to ding the slot.

Sometimes the hand-impact drivers work on jobs like that. See:

http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-...ase-37530.html

and sometimes they don't...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 12:48:47 PM UTC-5, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2015 10:56:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

First off, your 3/8 in tools will fit directly in the tool post and do 99% of all your shaping.

. . . . . . . OK....sigh . . . . now. . I officially feel Dumb!!!
That thought never entered my head.

One tip, back up the tool in the holder with a piece of 3/8 keystock, if your setup requires a lot of tool extension this will add stiffness to the tip.

Great idea! Thank You!

I have an armstrong adjustable for my ammco and I've used it only once.

Adjustable tool holders have two advantages, they hold short toolbits and they are good for getting into pockets. The length of the carbide toolholder will pretty much cancel out both of those.

I'd wait until I could steal a decent toolholder and resign myself to grinding HSS for it.

I have ground a couple of HSS toolbits for it. First one worked 'ok'.
2nd one much better. Found that a 4.5" grinder with a new, sharp edge
wheel, sure cuts faster than my bench grinder. Hand grinder to rough
and bench to finish seems to work well.

In the meantime use your carbide in the toolpost and make chips.

Tried that mounting and it works like a champ. Thanks again!

Another tip. For cutting keyways, I take the clapper box and swivel clean off of mine. I made boring bar style bitholder with a 1/2-20 thread on the back. I thread it into the hole for the swivel screw and lock it with a jam nut and a washer.

This unit came with both the orig. key way cutter holders. But I'm not
sure how to lock the clapper box.

Thought I could drill and tap both sides of the clapper box, dimple
the clapper at the hole bottoms, and use a rounded setscrew in each
hole to lock. Your method wouldn't modify the unit and should be easy
to setup.

I have tried to remove the swivel screw but it is _real_ tight and I
don't have a tight fitting screwdriver wide enough to fill the entire
slot. Really don't want to ding the slot.

Any suggestions? (guess I could try making a proper fit driver out of
drill rod)

Thanks much for your help

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

I ground my screwdriver out of a piece of 1x1/4 flat O1 I had laying around.. After I did this, I realized that I could have used the shaper to cut one by leaving a suitably sized protrusion on the end of a piece of 7/8 hex stock (that way I could the use same wrench I use for the ram bolt.)

I never got around to that though.

Paul K. Dickman

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

Congratulations!

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application

Hmm ... I've always considered the shaper application to be too
much of an "interrupted cut" for carbide to be happy.

and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the 11"
Logan.

Are these with the insert held in place by a single center
screws, flathead or very slightly oval, and a hex (Allen) socket?

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

Well ... all the tool holders I've seen for my 7" Rockwell/Delta
shaper (a descendant of the AMMCO) were drop forged steel by appearance.
A bit too much load for machining from mild steel.

Perhaps something like 4140 -- hardened and tempered to the
right level.

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Well -- this is mostly opinion, not solid knowledge, except for
the "drop forged" part.

However -- if the insert tooling is like what I described, the
shanks are mild steel anyway, so as long as your holder has greater
cross section overall than the 3/8" shanks, you can probably do with
mild steel. (Just look for things bending or loosening in operation.)

The holder which you are planing to shrink-design -- is it by
any chance the one with a notched ring at 45 degree intervals to fit
the tool shanks and a bolt with a flange to fit over it, and accept the
bit through a square hole? (Looking at mine, the square notches have a
small V notch in the center to hold round shanked tools). Anyway, the
shank of which the ring is a part is marked as being made by Armstrong,
and is very obviously drop-forged. And mine is the right size for 1/4"
shank bits, and thus a very happy match for the 7" shaper.

BTW You don't want to use the Armstrong tool holders designed for
lathe use which hold the bit at an angle for took rake. There
were some similar ones made with no rake for use in shapers.

And -- you can simply put the 3/8" shanks in the lantern style
toolpost in the shaper. (Well ... lantern style but without a tilt
feature which the lathe lantern style toolposts have.)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong. However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong. However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

On 2015-05-06, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2015 10:56:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

[ ... ]

Adjustable tool holders have two advantages, they hold short toolbits and they are good for getting into pockets. The length of the carbide toolholder will pretty much cancel out both of those.

I'd wait until I could steal a decent toolholder and resign myself to grinding HSS for it.

I have ground a couple of HSS toolbits for it. First one worked 'ok'.
2nd one much better. Found that a 4.5" grinder with a new, sharp edge
wheel, sure cuts faster than my bench grinder. Hand grinder to rough
and bench to finish seems to work well.

In the meantime use your carbide in the toolpost and make chips.

And see whether the inserts break. No bets on that, BTW, if it
is the inexpensive set which I desribed in another followup (but which
you could not have seen by the time you posted this.)

Tried that mounting and it works like a champ. Thanks again!

Another tip. For cutting keyways, I take the clapper box and swivel clean off of mine. I made boring bar style bitholder with a 1/2-20 thread on the back. I thread it into the hole for the swivel screw and lock it with a jam nut and a washer.

This unit came with both the orig. key way cutter holders. But I'm not
sure how to lock the clapper box.

Thought I could drill and tap both sides of the clapper box, dimple
the clapper at the hole bottoms, and use a rounded setscrew in each
hole to lock. Your method wouldn't modify the unit and should be easy
to setup.

What I have seen -- but not yet done to mine -- is to make a 'D'
shaped washer a bit wider than the side walls of the clapper box. Drill
and tap a hole straight down into the walls (close to the free end of
the clapper) and secure it with a screw and a short compression spring.
Under normal use, the flat on the 'D' is parallel to the clapper plate
edge and allows it to lift freely. When you need to lock the clapper,
rotate the washer 180 degrees and tighten down the screw to fully
compress the spring and lock the washer in place. It will prevent the
clapper plate from lifting.

I have tried to remove the swivel screw but it is _real_ tight and I
don't have a tight fitting screwdriver wide enough to fill the entire
slot. Really don't want to ding the slot.

Any suggestions? (guess I could try making a proper fit driver out of
drill rod)

I just looked at mine. I had never considered undoing that
screw before -- and it looks like the drill rod is the answer.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

wrote in message
...
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

BTW 12L14 does not welD well.

-jsw

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

BTW 12L14 does not welD well.

-jsw



Stressproof CAN be a royal pain to machine. It tends, in my
exterience, to be "stringy" and takes a lot of power to cut.I imagine
there is a tool material and grind that cuts it easily, but I haven't
found it. (Not that I have machined much of it)

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way 1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

--
Ed Huntress


BTW 12L14 does not welD well.

-jsw

On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:46:41 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

BTW 12L14 does not welD well.

-jsw



Stressproof CAN be a royal pain to machine. It tends, in my
exterience, to be "stringy" and takes a lot of power to cut.I imagine
there is a tool material and grind that cuts it easily, but I haven't
found it. (Not that I have machined much of it)

Based on Clare's comment, I should say it's *claimed* to machine well.
g I never turned or milled it myself. I've only encountered it once,
and it had already been machined when I had to assemble it into a
piece of test equipment.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same
basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way
1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

--
Ed Huntress

I assume tapping to be the limitation on what type of high-strength
steel I should stock up on, though carbide might be able to cut
external threads in steel that HSS taps won't handle.

I know I can cut a Grade 8 bolt with HSS lathe bits. My 50-year-old
lathe doesn't do well with carbide.

-jsw

On Fri, 8 May 2015 08:31:48 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same
basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way
1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

--
Ed Huntress

I assume tapping to be the limitation on what type of high-strength
steel I should stock up on, though carbide might be able to cut
external threads in steel that HSS taps won't handle.

If you're talking about dies for external threads, rather than taps, I
have never used a carbide die and don't even know what one would look
like. As for single-point turning, HSS is good up to around Rc45,
although tool life ain't great when the workpiece is that hard.

Regarding grades of steel to stock, it depends a lot on what
heat-treating facility you have. There's a real tendency for hobbyists
to over-specify steel grades. Of course, we don't want to make
something twice because we find out after the fact that our original
choice wasn't up to the job. I'd never have chosen 1040 for
shock-absorber/strut piston rods, for example, but that's what the car
makers use.


I know I can cut a Grade 8 bolt with HSS lathe bits. My 50-year-old
lathe doesn't do well with carbide.

Neither does my 60-year-old lathe. g I use brazed-tip carbide tools
mostly for cutting fiberglass composites -- my fishing-rod ferules,
for the most part -- and an occassional scrap of hypereutectic
aluminum that I pick up because it was there.

--
Ed Huntress


-jsw

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way 1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

Do you know the patent number, or the patentee and date? I'm curious.

As for machining 1144, I find it easier than 1018, with nicer finishes,
but one can definitely tell from the noise the lathe (or mill) makes
that 1144 is twice as strong as 1016.

Given the difference in alloy strength, I'd venture that bigger
stronger machine tools will work better.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 08 May 2015 09:21:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way 1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

Do you know the patent number, or the patentee and date? I'm curious.

All I know is that Niagara LaSalle says they created it in 1938:

http://www.niagaralasalle.com/product-stressproof.html

Other sources seem to agree.


As for machining 1144, I find it easier than 1018, with nicer finishes,
but one can definitely tell from the noise the lathe (or mill) makes
that 1144 is twice as strong as 1016.

Given the difference in alloy strength, I'd venture that bigger
stronger machine tools will work better.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 08 May 2015 09:21:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way 1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

Do you know the patent number, or the patentee and date? I'm curious.

As for machining 1144, I find it easier than 1018, with nicer finishes,
but one can definitely tell from the noise the lathe (or mill) makes
that 1144 is twice as strong as 1016.

Given the difference in alloy strength, I'd venture that bigger
stronger machine tools will work better.

Joe Gwinn

Most of my "stressproof" experience has been in modifying drive axles
- cut the axle in half, drill out one end and machine the other end
down to fit the recess at the right length, then reweld to shorten, or
add a siilarly prepaired piece of stressproof to lengthen an axle. The
stressproof chunk and the original axle machined almost identically,
The Myford Super Seven just gave up in dispair and the big indian
12X36complained but got the job done. (flat belt drive did most of the
complaining) Getting a fine finisg was not easy.

On Fri, 08 May 2015 15:01:23 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 08 May 2015 09:21:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way 1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

Do you know the patent number, or the patentee and date? I'm curious.

As for machining 1144, I find it easier than 1018, with nicer finishes,
but one can definitely tell from the noise the lathe (or mill) makes
that 1144 is twice as strong as 1016.

Given the difference in alloy strength, I'd venture that bigger
stronger machine tools will work better.

Joe Gwinn

Most of my "stressproof" experience has been in modifying drive axles
- cut the axle in half, drill out one end and machine the other end
down to fit the recess at the right length, then reweld to shorten, or
add a siilarly prepaired piece of stressproof to lengthen an axle. The
stressproof chunk and the original axle machined almost identically,
The Myford Super Seven just gave up in dispair and the big indian
12X36complained but got the job done. (flat belt drive did most of the
complaining) Getting a fine finisg was not easy.
I love stressproof and try to convince customers to use it whenever
possible. It machines nicely, threads quite well, and is easy to get a
good finish when turning. The only steel easier is 12L14, AKA "Dark
Aluminum" by a guy I used to work with. An apt description. I also
really like 17-4, 15-5, 400 series SS, and 4340 in the heat treated
condition. Tougher to machine than 1144 but they all end up with a
very good finish when turning or threading. And 4340 smells good when
the blue chips are coming off while mild steel stinks. I hate mild
steel for machining. I will charge more for turning mild steel, hot or
cold rolled, because of the stringy chips and the trouble it is to get
a good finish. Usually the extra cost of 1144 is offset by the easy
machining.
Eric

My mistake - the stuff I was using was HyTuf - not stress-proof.
The stuff Strange makes drive axles out of. Nasty stuff.

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 08 May 2015 09:21:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not weld well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way 1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

Do you know the patent number, or the patentee and date? I'm curious.

All I know is that Niagara LaSalle says they created it in 1938:

http://www.niagaralasalle.com/product-stressproof.html

Other sources seem to agree.

This was enough of a clue. A patent search on Lasalle (assignee) and
cold processed steel as the search terms yielded about 50 hits, almost
all being relevant. Probably their FatigueProof steel is in there as
well. The first patent I looked at seems to be it: 2,880,855, which
gives the chemical analysis, which matches what Niagara-Lasalle states.
This patent is from 1955, but probably references the 1938 era patent.

Joe Gwinn

On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 9:02:41 PM UTC-4, DoN. Nichols wrote:






BTW You don't want to use the Armstrong tool holders designed for
lathe use which hold the bit at an angle for took rake. There
were some similar ones made with no rake for use in shapers.


Good Luck,
DoN.

They also are good for use in lathes when using carbide.

Dan

On 2015-05-08, wrote:
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:

[ ... ]

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the shaper
yet.)

Sorry -- I meant above "does not *weld* well". Only of
importance here if he is planning on making the ring and the shank
separately, and welding them together.

Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

Yep! Just not a good choice if you have to weld it. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Tue, 5 May 2015 15:52:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Bob Gentry" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 5 May 2015 13:17:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

snip

Could you carve something from a 1" Grade 5 bolt from Tractor
Supply?


The raw block for the three main parts would have to be about
1.5x1.5x7". But thanks for another idea

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

Another source of fairly hard but still machineable steel is scraps of
cylinder rod from the scrap heap or cutoff bin of a hydraulic cylinder
repair shop. It's case-hardened.

Before I found the Multifix I used a lantern post I made from a bolt
and homebrew tool bit holders on my lathe. The weak spots that need
harder steel are the clamp screw threads and their contacts on the top
of the tool holder, and maybe the end under the cutting bit that
supports the cutting force, if the bit isn't well clamped. The clamp
screws will mushroom and be very difficult to remove if they aren't
hardened.

-jsw

You can buy hardened screws easily enough even at Fastenal

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:46:41 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On 8 May 2015 01:04:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:43:18 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Mild steel will be as stiff and rigid as any steel -- they all
have
the same stiffness -- but it won't be particularly strong.
However,
you're not likely to approach the strength limitations of mild
steel
or any other steel in this application. If you did, the toolholder
would be springing so much you couldn't use it anyway.

Ed
Thanks for the insight!

I've never used 12L14 and I've heard it is easier to cut and gives
a
nice finish. Would you see any problems with that in this
application
(just to try something new) ?

Just bear in mind that 12L14 does not well well. But it is a
beautiful material to machine in the lathe. (Not tried it in the
shaper
yet.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
Lathe, shaper, or mill, leaded steel is the easiest to machine and
make a nice finish -aka free machining steel - of which 12L14 is one
type. As easy to machine as 6061T6 AL or breass.

How is 1144 Stressproof?

BTW 12L14 does not welD well.

-jsw



Stressproof CAN be a royal pain to machine. It tends, in my
exterience, to be "stringy" and takes a lot of power to cut.I imagine
there is a tool material and grind that cuts it easily, but I haven't
found it. (Not that I have machined much of it)

Stressproof seems to like a negative rake tool with a slight radius.
Ive not tried negative tool rake in a shaper however.

Shrug

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On Fri, 8 May 2015 08:31:48 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 7 May 2015 21:32:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

How is 1144 Stressproof?

AISI 1144, ASTM A311, and some other SAE grade describe the same
basic
alloy. Stressproof is a patented steel, and the patent is the way
1144
is rolled, drawn, and heat-treated. It's drawn really hard.

Stressproof is intended to be used without further heat treatment.
It's a good grade for a lot of hobby applications because of that
fact, plus the facts that it machines well, it's very stable, and it
combines good ductility with around 100,000 psi yield strength.

--
Ed Huntress

I assume tapping to be the limitation on what type of high-strength
steel I should stock up on, though carbide might be able to cut
external threads in steel that HSS taps won't handle.

I know I can cut a Grade 8 bolt with HSS lathe bits. My 50-year-old
lathe doesn't do well with carbide.

-jsw

There are few Carbide taps that are suitable for home hobby type use

Gunner

---
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On 8 May 2015 01:02:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2015-05-05, Bob Gentry wrote:
A nice little AAMCO 7" shaper found it's way to my "shop" a couple of
months ago.

(Thanks for the heads up and location Gunner! A bit of cleanup and
lube and it seems to work well.)

Congratulations!

Thank You.

I understand that carbide insert tools can work well in a shaper
application

Hmm ... I've always considered the shaper application to be too
much of an "interrupted cut" for carbide to be happy.

You are spot on with that sigh. Working on a different project,
aprox. 3.5 inch x 1" x 1" blank with two holes spaced about 1.5"
apart on the centerline. Taking about .5" full length and hitting the
hole edges. By the end 4 .015" passes the carbide just quit cutting.
Finished the cut with HSS. Major improvement. Then did a finish cut
about .003" deep with a new insert and slow feed. Super finish. Think
I learned something here.

and I have a set of 3/8" shank tools that I use in the 11"
Logan.

Are these with the insert held in place by a single center
screws, flathead or very slightly oval, and a hex (Allen) socket?


Yes. Triangle.

I did find an adjustable holder, a Walton-American 7, which will take
from 5/16" to 1/2" bits. I like its' design and I think I could make a
copy of it (about an 83% sized copy) that would fit the shaper and
take 1/4" and 3/8" tools.

Having never done a project like this before my question is. . .

What type of steel would be appropriate for this application?

Well ... all the tool holders I've seen for my 7" Rockwell/Delta
shaper (a descendant of the AMMCO) were drop forged steel by appearance.
A bit too much load for machining from mild steel.

Perhaps something like 4140 -- hardened and tempered to the
right level.

I have a source of 'mild steel' local but would have to go to Seattle
or on line for just about anything else and I thought I'd tap the
knowledge of the group before I go shopping.

Well -- this is mostly opinion, not solid knowledge, except for
the "drop forged" part.

However -- if the insert tooling is like what I described, the
shanks are mild steel anyway, so as long as your holder has greater
cross section overall than the 3/8" shanks, you can probably do with
mild steel. (Just look for things bending or loosening in operation.)

The holder which you are planing to shrink-design -- is it by
any chance the one with a notched ring at 45 degree intervals to fit
the tool shanks and a bolt with a flange to fit over it, and accept the
bit through a square hole? (Looking at mine, the square notches have a
small V notch in the center to hold round shanked tools). Anyway, the
shank of which the ring is a part is marked as being made by Armstrong,
and is very obviously drop-forged. And mine is the right size for 1/4"
shank bits, and thus a very happy match for the 7" shaper.

No.
The shank sorta looks like a large heavy handled 'spoon'. (the spoon
part is flat both sides) In the 'spoon' end is mounting bolt and two
tool clamps. The lower clamp can be indexed in 4 'V' groves ( think 8
point star). The lower clamp has a 45deg. angle on one edge. (think
9oclock for the tool bit, mounting bolt in the center and the angle at
3oclock). The upper clamp has a matching taper and an oblong hole
which allows it to slide to adjust to the tool bit.

You don't want to use the Armstrong tool holders designed for
lathe use which hold the bit at an angle for took rake. There
were some similar ones made with no rake for use in shapers.

And -- you can simply put the 3/8" shanks in the lantern style
toolpost in the shaper. (Well ... lantern style but without a tilt
feature which the lathe lantern style toolposts have.)

Did just that and it works. . . . however, as you said, the insert
didn't like the cut.


Good Luck,
DoN.

Thanks for your assistance and insights!!

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

On Sat, 09 May 2015 19:28:25 -0700, Bob Gentry wrote:


And -- you can simply put the 3/8" shanks in the lantern style
toolpost in the shaper. (Well ... lantern style but without a tilt
feature which the lathe lantern style toolposts have.)

Did just that and it works. . . . however, as you said, the insert
didn't like the cut.


Good Luck,
DoN.

Thanks for your assistance and insights!!

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

Bob..try to find yourself a couple pounds of Stellite in 3/8" square
shank. Its like Highspeed Steel..but much..much tougher and was
designed to replace HSS before they came out with Carbide tools.

Great! stuff for shapers. Absolutely marvelous! for shapers.

Gunner

On Sat, 09 May 2015 20:07:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 09 May 2015 19:28:25 -0700, Bob Gentry wrote:


And -- you can simply put the 3/8" shanks in the lantern style
toolpost in the shaper. (Well ... lantern style but without a tilt
feature which the lathe lantern style toolposts have.)

Did just that and it works. . . . however, as you said, the insert
didn't like the cut.


Good Luck,
DoN.

Thanks for your assistance and insights!!

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

Bob..try to find yourself a couple pounds of Stellite in 3/8" square
shank. Its like Highspeed Steel..but much..much tougher and was
designed to replace HSS before they came out with Carbide tools.

Great! stuff for shapers. Absolutely marvelous! for shapers.

Gunner


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellite

Also see Tangtung and Talonite