On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 12:51:41 PM UTC-4, F. George McDuffee wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/qc3cda2
--
Unka' George



Have not read the second article, but found a major problem with the first one.

Increasing the number of jobs for humans will mitigate the problem of inequality in the distribution of income only if these new jobs have three properties: (1) they must be jobs that a computer cannot perform; (2) they must require skills that are scarce in the human population; and (3) the new jobs must include a substantial fraction of the population. Increasing the number of jobs, such as supermarket checkers, that do not have a scarce skill requirement will not solve the problem.

It seems obvious to me that item 2 and item 3 are mutually exclusive.

You can not require skill that are scarce and also include a substantial fraction of the population. If a substantial portion of the population has the skills , the skills are not scarce.

Dan

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:10:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 12:51:41 PM UTC-4, F. George McDuffee wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/qc3cda2
--
Unka' George



Have not read the second article, but found a major problem with the first one.

Increasing the number of jobs for humans will mitigate the problem of inequality in the distribution of income only if these new jobs have three properties: (1) they must be jobs that a computer cannot perform; (2) they must require skills that are scarce in the human population; and (3) the new jobs must include a substantial fraction of the population. Increasing the number of jobs, such as supermarket checkers, that do not have a scarce skill requirement will not solve the problem.

It seems obvious to me that item 2 and item 3 are mutually exclusive.

You can not require skill that are scarce and also include a substantial fraction of the population. If a substantial portion of the population has the skills , the skills are not scarce.

Dan

I think the idea is that there must be enough total jobs to employ a
substantial fraction of the population, but that they can include a
variety of types of new jobs -- each of which must require skills that
are scarce.

Which, I believe, is a pipe dream. The writer has set up a necessary,
but probably impossible, set of conditions to solve the employment
situation.

'Back to my sackcloth and ashes... d8-(

--
Ed Huntress

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 12:20:30 PM UTC-7, slow eddy wrote:

I think the idea is that there must be enough total jobs to employ a
substantial fraction of the population, but that they can include a
variety of types of new jobs -- each of which must require skills that
are scarce.

Which, I believe, is a pipe dream. The writer has set up a necessary,
but probably impossible, set of conditions to solve the employment
situation.

Pipe dream = Much of what slow eddy writes about in worthless, ad driven, rags.

On 4/28/2015 12:20 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:10:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 12:51:41 PM UTC-4, F. George McDuffee wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/qc3cda2
--
Unka' George



Have not read the second article, but found a major problem with the first one.

Increasing the number of jobs for humans will mitigate the problem of inequality in the distribution of income only if these new jobs have three properties: (1) they must be jobs that a computer cannot perform; (2) they must require skills that are scarce in the human population; and (3) the new jobs must include a substantial fraction of the population. Increasing the number of jobs, such as supermarket checkers, that do not have a scarce skill requirement will not solve the problem.

It seems obvious to me that item 2 and item 3 are mutually exclusive.

You can not require skill that are scarce and also include a substantial fraction of the population. If a substantial portion of the population has the skills , the skills are not scarce.

Dan

I think the idea is that there must be enough total jobs to employ a
substantial fraction of the population, but that they can include a
variety of types of new jobs -- each of which must require skills that
are scarce.

Which, I believe, is a pipe dream. The writer has set up a necessary,
but probably impossible, set of conditions to solve the employment
situation.

The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

I think the idea is that there must be enough total jobs to employ a
substantial fraction of the population, but that they can include a
variety of types of new jobs -- each of which must require skills
that
are scarce.

Which, I believe, is a pipe dream. The writer has set up a
necessary,
but probably impossible, set of conditions to solve the employment
situation.

'Back to my sackcloth and ashes... d8-(

--
Ed Huntress

I don't remember from high school how many other people one
manufacturing job is supposed to support. IIRC the railroads figured
up to 10, the railroad employee plus one other family, when they
planned new towns along new lines, back before wives took jobs.

-jsw

On 4/28/2015 2:04 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

Not even close.

On 4/28/2015 2:19 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

I think the idea is that there must be enough total jobs to employ a
substantial fraction of the population, but that they can include a
variety of types of new jobs -- each of which must require skills
that
are scarce.

Which, I believe, is a pipe dream. The writer has set up a
necessary,
but probably impossible, set of conditions to solve the employment
situation.

'Back to my sackcloth and ashes... d8-(

--
Ed Huntress

I don't remember from high school how many other people one
manufacturing job is supposed to support. IIRC the railroads figured
up to 10, the railroad employee plus one other family, when they
planned new towns along new lines, back before wives took jobs.

The notion that great increments of value can come only from making
tangible stuff is long discredited. It's complete bull****.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:19:28 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .

I think the idea is that there must be enough total jobs to employ a
substantial fraction of the population, but that they can include a
variety of types of new jobs -- each of which must require skills
that
are scarce.

Which, I believe, is a pipe dream. The writer has set up a
necessary,
but probably impossible, set of conditions to solve the employment
situation.

'Back to my sackcloth and ashes... d8-(

--
Ed Huntress

I don't remember from high school how many other people one
manufacturing job is supposed to support. IIRC the railroads figured
up to 10, the railroad employee plus one other family, when they
planned new towns along new lines, back before wives took jobs.

-jsw

I don't know of any source in which I'd have confidence, but the
job-multiplier number commonly used for manufacturing jobs these days
is 4. Whatever the real number is, it's high.

Just the supply chain alone makes it high, but that's also where it
gets difficult to measure. At the top of the supply chain -- the OEM
who sells the finished product -- the multiplier is much higher. At
the bottom of the supply chain, it's lower.

I try to stay away from it, because there is another complication: as
you reduce the number of employees needed to make something, the
multiplier appears to go higher. But that depends on how automated the
supply chain is. They vary a lot.

--
Ed Huntress

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told them to eat
Kacke. (ca-ca)

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:49:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told them to eat
Kacke. (ca-ca)


Ach!! That woman had a mouth on her didnt she?

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a German accent at a very early age.

-- http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or
any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a
German accent at a very early age.

--
http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

The phrase predated her by 100 years.

Lets see you make a multilingual pun out of "Brioche."

-jsw

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:45:54 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or
any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a
German accent at a very early age.

--
http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

The phrase predated her by 100 years.

Lets see you make a multilingual pun out of "Brioche."

-jsw


Hmmm...how about a limerick?


A fashionable lass from LaRoche
Made a mess of eating brioche
"It's my lips, said the lass,
They're so plump, food can't pass
And sucking it in is so gauche"

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/29/2015 1:13 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:45:54 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or
any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a
German accent at a very early age.

--
http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

The phrase predated her by 100 years.

Lets see you make a multilingual pun out of "Brioche."

-jsw


Hmmm...how about a limerick?


A fashionable lass from LaRoche
Made a mess of eating brioche
"It's my lips, said the lass,
They're so plump, food can't pass
And sucking it in is so gauche"


Decent effort

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:45:54 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or
any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a
German accent at a very early age.

--
http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

The phrase predated her by 100 years.

Lets see you make a multilingual pun out of "Brioche."

-jsw


Hmmm...how about a limerick?


A fashionable lass from LaRoche
Made a mess of eating brioche
"It's my lips, said the lass,
They're so plump, food can't pass
And sucking it in is so gauche"

--
Ed Huntress

They pay you to do this?

-jsw

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:22:44 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:45:54 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or
any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a
German accent at a very early age.

--
http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

The phrase predated her by 100 years.

Lets see you make a multilingual pun out of "Brioche."

-jsw


Hmmm...how about a limerick?


A fashionable lass from LaRoche
Made a mess of eating brioche
"It's my lips, said the lass,
They're so plump, food can't pass
And sucking it in is so gauche"

--
Ed Huntress

They pay you to do this?

-jsw

Hell, no. It's what I do for comic relief.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:10:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a German accent at a very early age.

-- http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/


Firstly, the quote is "la brioche" which isn't "cake" as we know it
but bread made with additional eggs and butter - think something like
"Croissant" as apposed to "bread" which is essentially just flour and
water.

Secondly, it is highly unlikely that she actually said, "Qu'ils
mangent de la brioche" as the phrase seems to have originated with the
political philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau in his autobiography
"Confessions" written in 1765. Marie Antoinette was born in 1755.

--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:45:54 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or
any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a
German accent at a very early age.

--
http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

The phrase predated her by 100 years.

Lets see you make a multilingual pun out of "Brioche."

Zey arrre too beeg for zeir brioches.


--
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom
of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power
than by violent and sudden usurpations."
--James Madison, Virginia Convention, June 16, 1788

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:22:44 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:45:54 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 6:49:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:04:20 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:29:23 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip
The idea that we can, or should, "create" high paying jobs, or
any
kind
of jobs at all, is nonsense.
=============

Same comment made by the aristos in France and Russia, just
before their execution.

I thought that was "So let them eat cake!"

Marie Antoinette was Austrian, not French. She really told
them to eat Kacke. (ca-ca)

The following blog says that she learned to speak French without a
German accent at a very early age.

--
http://blog.catherinedelors.com/mari...ustrian-woman/

The phrase predated her by 100 years.

Lets see you make a multilingual pun out of "Brioche."

-jsw


Hmmm...how about a limerick?


A fashionable lass from LaRoche
Made a mess of eating brioche
"It's my lips, said the lass,
They're so plump, food can't pass
And sucking it in is so gauche"

--
Ed Huntress

They pay you to do this?

I'm still trying to figure out how he can type with that straitjacket
on...

--
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom
of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power
than by violent and sudden usurpations."
--James Madison, Virginia Convention, June 16, 1788

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:19:28 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .

I think the idea is that there must be enough total jobs to employ a
substantial fraction of the population, but that they can include a
variety of types of new jobs -- each of which must require skills
that
are scarce.

Which, I believe, is a pipe dream. The writer has set up a
necessary,
but probably impossible, set of conditions to solve the employment
situation.

'Back to my sackcloth and ashes... d8-(

--
Ed Huntress

I don't remember from high school how many other people one
manufacturing job is supposed to support. IIRC the railroads figured
up to 10, the railroad employee plus one other family, when they
planned new towns along new lines, back before wives took jobs.

-jsw


FYI, CAR now is reporting a multiplier of 8.4 for jobs at GM:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/201...ring/26564257/

If you're going to use that number in any discussion, I'd be sure that
you understand how CAR measures it, and give some thought to what it
means.

There are a lot of ways to look at this issue. The one point that's
consistent from every source I've ever seen, over 40 years, is that
manufacturing has the highest job-multiplier number of any business or
industry.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:17:23 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
snip
FYI, CAR now is reporting a multiplier of 8.4 for jobs at GM:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/201...ring/26564257/

If you're going to use that number in any discussion, I'd be sure that
you understand how CAR measures it, and give some thought to what it
means.
================

Thanks for the info and cite.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:16:29 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:17:23 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
snip
FYI, CAR now is reporting a multiplier of 8.4 for jobs at GM:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/201...ring/26564257/

If you're going to use that number in any discussion, I'd be sure that
you understand how CAR measures it, and give some thought to what it
means.
================

Thanks for the info and cite.

You're welcome, George, but, as I said, be very cautious about these
numbers.

For example, GM's numbers, if these are accurate, have some meaning,
because they produce a consumer product. The multiplier for coal
mining has meaning to the economies of areas local to the coal mines,
but they just produce an input to (mostly) the electric-power
industry. Electric power producers may count all of the coal-mining
jobs as among those produced by their "multiplier." There is almost no
coal mining without power production, so coal mining "produces" no
jobs on its own.

And so on. CAR is pretty good overall, but I haven't looked into how
they compiled their figure for this jobs-multiplier issue.

--
Ed Huntress