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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 9:45:39 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3116...efore-the-fall "Indeed, the entire sector is a shambles and, contrary to what I thought in January, it is possible to buy puts or short sell the sector from here to new lows. Unfolding industry scenario: Write-downs. Consolidation. Bankruptcies. A gift that keeps giving in uncertain times. Eventually, I hope to see the leading players considering an IPO - EOS and envisionTec." |
#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
Saying that Carbon3D is going to take the Market is naive. 3D-systems is
a very wide and deep company. They are constantly on the move and expanding. Suggest you read some of the replies below. It is a biased piece and it suggests that the author only knows them on a surface level and a Hodge-Podge of information. He is impressed on speed, not 70 microns. Martin On 5/2/2015 11:45 AM, jon_banquer wrote: On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 9:04:15 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3116...efore-the-fall "I believe that infant technologies like CLIP could change the dynamics of the market, and increase both demand and scalability of 3D printing. Because Carbon3D is a competitor to 3D Systems, it's hard to think of any alternative other than to short 3D Systems. Not only has the business environment worsened, but the company doesn't have a viable business model any more. Management is more focused on reducing costs, while creating hype around stereolithography, which is almost due for a 30-year anniversary. The industry was ripe for disruption, and 3D Systems never came away with the breakthrough needed to take 3D printing from some niche opportunity into main stream. It lost. I don't believe in comeback stories, as I'm fairly confident that the VC-backed Carbon3D is going to compete with the intent of taking the whole market over. They have the patents, and they are working with some of the finest VC guys in Silicon Valley. I also anticipate Carbon3D to utilize standard business practices to rapidly scale production for its 3D printer units. Carbon3D doesn't have to price products for profit maximization, so it has some flexibility to adjust price points to be more directly competitive with industry-stalwarts. Needless to say, DDD has really high gross margins, so there's plenty of room for Carbon3D to fight with pricing." |
#43
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 9:00:48 PM UTC-7, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Saying that Carbon3D is going to take the Market is naive. 3D-systems is a very wide and deep company. They are constantly on the move and expanding. Suggest you read some of the replies below. It is a biased piece and it suggests that the author only knows them on a surface level and a Hodge-Podge of information. He is impressed on speed, not 70 microns. Martin On 5/2/2015 11:45 AM, jon_banquer wrote: On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 9:04:15 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3116...efore-the-fall "I believe that infant technologies like CLIP could change the dynamics of the market, and increase both demand and scalability of 3D printing. Because Carbon3D is a competitor to 3D Systems, it's hard to think of any alternative other than to short 3D Systems. Not only has the business environment worsened, but the company doesn't have a viable business model any more. Management is more focused on reducing costs, while creating hype around stereolithography, which is almost due for a 30-year anniversary. The industry was ripe for disruption, and 3D Systems never came away with the breakthrough needed to take 3D printing from some niche opportunity into main stream. It lost. I don't believe in comeback stories, as I'm fairly confident that the VC-backed Carbon3D is going to compete with the intent of taking the whole market over. They have the patents, and they are working with some of the finest VC guys in Silicon Valley. I also anticipate Carbon3D to utilize standard business practices to rapidly scale production for its 3D printer units.. Carbon3D doesn't have to price products for profit maximization, so it has some flexibility to adjust price points to be more directly competitive with industry-stalwarts. Needless to say, DDD has really high gross margins, so there's plenty of room for Carbon3D to fight with pricing." What's naive is your understanding of 3D Systems and how poorly they have done with the Hodge-podge of technology they have acquired. |
#44
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
If you are talking about other companies they bought the last few years
then you have to understand what process that is. It takes time. Managers leave or retire with golden parachutes leaving the bought out company with few to manage in the merger or takeover. The buyers have to come up to speed and move the financial facts into their sheets. Often this is not understood or in such a bad way that it doesn't go easy. I have been in those positions myself. Mergers is often tough. The enemy has just killed your changes of moving up by dumping the board and managers you know... Or double staffing and one takes a chance that doesn't work. Maybe the guy on the takeover looks good on paper, Ivy school and dresses well. But does not know the company. All sorts of bumps along the way but the union is either killing off the 'other guys' or it is acquiring designs or market-share. It isn't simple as you might believe. It takes years. Some never get merged in well and are often tossed out. Either given away, put out on their own again or just dumped in mass and loss taken. Business is complex and so is Finance. They seemed like less tech than EE or Physics but once in the Big world of world wide companies you understand there are many countries that have strange to us laws that require certain process must be done, employees can't be laid off and they can't work over 30 hours a week..... I was. The company I retired from had manufacturing sites in 100 countries. That is big. The company was an org chart of companies. Some many very large. Some smaller ones are grouped into sub levels by themselves. Being a Sr. Scientist, I worked with several different companies. Two were as favors for long time friends and done during off clock time. Not that I was ever on a clock, but one knows when you finally get to go home to see family, eat and sleep it is your time. Martin On 5/2/2015 11:15 PM, jon_banquer wrote: On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 9:00:48 PM UTC-7, Martin Eastburn wrote: Saying that Carbon3D is going to take the Market is naive. 3D-systems is a very wide and deep company. They are constantly on the move and expanding. Suggest you read some of the replies below. It is a biased piece and it suggests that the author only knows them on a surface level and a Hodge-Podge of information. He is impressed on speed, not 70 microns. Martin On 5/2/2015 11:45 AM, jon_banquer wrote: On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 9:04:15 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3116...efore-the-fall "I believe that infant technologies like CLIP could change the dynamics of the market, and increase both demand and scalability of 3D printing. Because Carbon3D is a competitor to 3D Systems, it's hard to think of any alternative other than to short 3D Systems. Not only has the business environment worsened, but the company doesn't have a viable business model any more. Management is more focused on reducing costs, while creating hype around stereolithography, which is almost due for a 30-year anniversary. The industry was ripe for disruption, and 3D Systems never came away with the breakthrough needed to take 3D printing from some niche opportunity into main stream. It lost. I don't believe in comeback stories, as I'm fairly confident that the VC-backed Carbon3D is going to compete with the intent of taking the whole market over. They have the patents, and they are working with some of the finest VC guys in Silicon Valley. I also anticipate Carbon3D to utilize standard business practices to rapidly scale production for its 3D printer units. Carbon3D doesn't have to price products for profit maximization, so it has some flexibility to adjust price points to be more directly competitive with industry-stalwarts. Needless to say, DDD has really high gross margins, so there's plenty of room for Carbon3D to fight with pricing." What's naive is your understanding of 3D Systems and how poorly they have done with the Hodge-podge of technology they have acquired. |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 9:46:08 PM UTC-7, Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you are talking about other companies they bought the last few years then you have to understand what process that is. It takes time. Managers leave or retire with golden parachutes leaving the bought out company with few to manage in the merger or takeover. The buyers have to come up to speed and move the financial facts into their sheets. Often this is not understood or in such a bad way that it doesn't go easy.. I have been in those positions myself. Mergers is often tough. The enemy has just killed your changes of moving up by dumping the board and managers you know... Or double staffing and one takes a chance that doesn't work. Maybe the guy on the takeover looks good on paper, Ivy school and dresses well. But does not know the company. All sorts of bumps along the way but the union is either killing off the 'other guys' or it is acquiring designs or market-share. It isn't simple as you might believe. It takes years. Some never get merged in well and are often tossed out. Either given away, put out on their own again or just dumped in mass and loss taken. Business is complex and so is Finance. They seemed like less tech than EE or Physics but once in the Big world of world wide companies you understand there are many countries that have strange to us laws that require certain process must be done, employees can't be laid off and they can't work over 30 hours a week..... I was. The company I retired from had manufacturing sites in 100 countries. That is big. The company was an org chart of companies. Some many very large. Some smaller ones are grouped into sub levels by themselves. Being a Sr. Scientist, I worked with several different companies. Two were as favors for long time friends and done during off clock time. Not that I was ever on a clock, but one knows when you finally get to go home to see family, eat and sleep it is your time. Martin On 5/2/2015 11:15 PM, jon_banquer wrote: On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 9:00:48 PM UTC-7, Martin Eastburn wrote: Saying that Carbon3D is going to take the Market is naive. 3D-systems is a very wide and deep company. They are constantly on the move and expanding. Suggest you read some of the replies below. It is a biased piece and it suggests that the author only knows them on a surface level and a Hodge-Podge of information. He is impressed on speed, not 70 microns.. Martin On 5/2/2015 11:45 AM, jon_banquer wrote: On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 9:04:15 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3116...efore-the-fall "I believe that infant technologies like CLIP could change the dynamics of the market, and increase both demand and scalability of 3D printing. Because Carbon3D is a competitor to 3D Systems, it's hard to think of any alternative other than to short 3D Systems. Not only has the business environment worsened, but the company doesn't have a viable business model any more. Management is more focused on reducing costs, while creating hype around stereolithography, which is almost due for a 30-year anniversary. The industry was ripe for disruption, and 3D Systems never came away with the breakthrough needed to take 3D printing from some niche opportunity into main stream. It lost. I don't believe in comeback stories, as I'm fairly confident that the VC-backed Carbon3D is going to compete with the intent of taking the whole market over. They have the patents, and they are working with some of the finest VC guys in Silicon Valley. I also anticipate Carbon3D to utilize standard business practices to rapidly scale production for its 3D printer units. Carbon3D doesn't have to price products for profit maximization, so it has some flexibility to adjust price points to be more directly competitive with industry-stalwarts. Needless to say, DDD has really high gross margins, so there's plenty of room for Carbon3D to fight with pricing." What's naive is your understanding of 3D Systems and how poorly they have done with the Hodge-podge of technology they have acquired. 3D Systems has no idea how to manage many of their CADCAM acquisitions. They have done nothing with Alibre and many Alibre users are looking to switch or have already switched. The same will be true with Cimatron and Gibbscam. I would not be surprised to see 3D Systems go bust. |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 12:46:08 AM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you are talking about other companies they bought the last few years then you have to understand what process that is. Manufacturing will probably always include aspects of CNC and 3D. Depends upon the order I guess. I'm not involved with either. So, what do I know or care. It takes time. Managers leave or retire with golden parachutes leaving the bought out company with few to manage in the merger or takeover. Well, that's a given for the business aspect. Most people are out to look after number one. Blue chip orporate head hunters, trade associations (that I assume you are a dues-paying part of) and pay scale researchers, etc... can usually find replacements in a fairly short amount of time. The buyers have to come up to speed and move the financial facts into their sheets. Often this is not understood or in such a bad way that it doesn't go easy. That's where consultants and advisors come in (BTW, both are separate efforts). I have been in those positions myself. Mergers is often tough. The enemy has just killed your changes of moving up by dumping the board and managers you know... That's when plan B, C, D, etc.. comes in. If they see that you participate in stock sharing schemes, then you should already be on the inside enough so that minor rivalries shouldn't be too bad. Or double staffing and one takes a chance that doesn't work. Maybe the guy on the takeover looks good on paper, Ivy school and dresses well. But does not know the company. All sorts of bumps along the way but the union is either killing off the 'other guys' or it is acquiring designs or market-share. A mom & pop trying to do everything themselves is increasingly going to end up one way ... It isn't simple as you might believe. It takes years. Some never get merged in well and are often tossed out. Sometimes the government will step in and forceably prevent a merger. Either given away, put out on their own again or just dumped in mass and loss taken. Sometimes, a merger or a break-up is happening purely to avoid fall out from an unfavorable chancery court ruling. Business is complex and so is Finance. Most elderly folks I've spoken to recommend taking a few accounting courses to help ease things. They seemed like less tech than EE or Physics but once in the Big world of world wide companies you understand there are many countries that have strange to us laws that require certain process must be done, employees can't be laid off Many of those countries over there have law and accounting firms that can ease all of that. I mean it is their turf (if you want to see it that way). and they can't work over 30 hours a week..... I was. The company I retired from had manufacturing sites in 100 countries. That is big. The company was an org chart of companies. Some many very large. Some smaller ones are grouped into sub levels by themselves. Being a Sr. Scientist, I worked with several different companies. Two were as favors for long time friends and done during off clock time. Not that I was ever on a clock, but one knows when you finally get to go home to see family, eat and sleep it is your time. |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
3D Systems Acknowledges Total Lack Of Visibility:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3146...-of-visibility |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 1:09:06 AM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
I would not be surprised to see 3D Systems go bust. And then you'll be happy? |
#49
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 2:29:55 PM UTC-7, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 1:09:06 AM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote: I would not be surprised to see 3D Systems go bust. And then you'll be happy? Is anyone who has to live in New Jersey happy? |
#50
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
Glad you found one site that has no faith. Many companies get boiling
fast and buy up and buy up and then plateau or droop. GE is drooping and is selling off non-central parts of the business. I suppose GE was a beginner also. The whole market is in free fall with scare of a new world standard of currency. That would take the dollar out of international trade like it was out of oil a few years ago. Martin On 5/6/2015 12:29 PM, jon_banquer wrote: 3D Systems Acknowledges Total Lack Of Visibility: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3146...-of-visibility |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 8:01:25 PM UTC-7, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Glad you found one site that has no faith. Many companies get boiling fast and buy up and buy up and then plateau or droop. GE is drooping and is selling off non-central parts of the business. I suppose GE was a beginner also. The whole market is in free fall with scare of a new world standard of currency. That would take the dollar out of international trade like it was out of oil a few years ago. Martin On 5/6/2015 12:29 PM, jon_banquer wrote: 3D Systems Acknowledges Total Lack Of Visibility: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3146...-of-visibility There is a big difference between over-hyped and no faith. There are several sites that deal with just how badly 3D printing has been over-hyped. It's clear to me that you don't understand the software problems that 3D Systems has. These problems are the result of 3D Systems buying up lots of different companies that don't have complementary products and whose products need a ton of work to modernize. |
#52
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
An anouncement that may be of interest about low cost 3d
printers. http://tinyurl.com/k7yr9gu -- Unka' George "Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants, but debt is the money of slaves" -Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium" |
#53
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Over-hyped 3D Printing Continues To Disappoint
On 11/05/15 16:57, F. George McDuffee wrote:
An anouncement that may be of interest about low cost 3d printers. http://tinyurl.com/k7yr9gu I got a newsletter from Igus earlier and it seems they're offering a 3D printing service using one of the polymer bearing materials, see http://www.igus.co.uk/wpck/13370/3D_...415N&C=GB&L=en |
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