Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Flare brake lines?

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:21:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 4:27:20 PM UTC-7, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 18:00:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 23:42:00 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd

wrote:

On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 5:20:09 AM UTC-7, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:
On 3/18/2015 8:00 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
The advice I was hoping for was a recommendation of a compatible
or
insoluble heavy grease to put on the bleeder threads. ...

I have seen a YouTube video of bleeding with vacuum where they put
something on the bleeder threads to seal them.


I've used HandiTak for that (and have heard that plumber's teflon
tape
also works, but cannot confirm).


Describe what you call a vacuum bleed please - there are so many
possibilities.


For me it means connecting a Mityvac or HF bleeding kit to the wheel
cylinder bleeder, pumping to 25", opening the bleeder and watching the
fluid and maybe air flow out.


And there is NO WAY air or anything else is going to get in to the
system due to leakage around the bleeder screw threads doing it that
way. What's the big issue about the threads not sealing 100%???


The two-person bleed procedure pressurizes the brake lines and blows crud out of
them. A one-person vacuum bleed is also possible, using atmospheric pressure
at the master cylinder and pulling a vacuum at the bleed port with a "Mityvac" brand
hand pump. The problem there, is that the (loose) bleed valve can fill the little
waste bottle with brake fluid from the lines, or with air from the lines, or with
air that leaks past the threads of the valve. Even if air doesn't get into
the brake lines, there's no way to know when the bleed is good enough,
unless you smear some sealant around the valve threads.

I've never seen a professional mechanic put sealer on a bleeder
thread.. I've never put sealer on a bleader screw.. I have a little
battery operated electric vacuum bleeder. I have a mighti-vac. I
virtually never use them for bleeding brakes. So much easier to
gravity/pump bleed. The pressure bleeder was the cat's meow back when
I was at the dealership. Clamp the fitting on the master, dial up the
pressure on the tank, open the bleeder 'till the bubbles stop, Close
the screw. repeat on the other 3 lines.
It wasn't foolproof. Couldn't pressure bleed a '60's Vauxhaul with
twin leading shoe brakes while sitting level. Reverse bleeding is the
"secret weapon" in cases like that. Standing the car on it's nose
overnight works too. Don't want to have to do that too often!!. (line
went into the "top" cyl. with a jumper line from the top cyl to the
bottom cyl, and the bleeder on the bottom of the bottom cyl, of all
places!!!)
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Default Flare brake lines?

Gunner Asch on Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:43:35 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 22:26:54 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 20 Mar 2015 16:25:57 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 18:34:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
"Bob Engelhardt" wrote:
On 3/20/2015 7:27 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Has anyone seen short jackstands with a screw adjustment for height
that are rated for cars versus campers? When I put it on four
jackstands to pull the tires and repeatedly bleed the brakes only
three made contact.
...
"Point of order": this is RCM, your question should be about making
such, or modifying an existing one G. Seriously - you only need
one finely adjustable stand. And it just needs to keep the car
steady - the other 3 can carry the load. So, put an upright bolt
into the top of one of your stands & you're done. Bob

I could, and did think about it, or I could support the lighter rear
with a single centered floor jack. But I'm not going to remove the
tires and crawl underneath with such support.

I Never...ever...work under a vehicle supported by only a floor jack.
Not in this lifetime, nor in the next.


Is this because of something you did in a past lifetime? B-)

I had two buses (interurban types, not VW) fall off the jacks
while I was under them. On the second one, I heard the "creak" and
rolled out from under it, as the stand on the far side compressed the
cobble stone enough to get past CG. "Fall down, bounce on shocks."
Missed me, I was 21 and nie invulnerable.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."


Its because I went to visit a good friend and his wife told me he was
out in the garage..and I found him crushed to death under his Karman
Gia.
One jack, no jack stands.

Left a wife and 3 kids.

It wasnt a lot of fun checking him for a pulse..with a break drum
buried in his chest...knowing there wasnt going to be any..then
telling is wife to call 911..and trying to keep her out of the garage
because her husband lay dead..pinned like a bug to the floor..with a
pool of blood that had spewed out of his mouth like a fountain..and
wide eyes and a paniced expression on his now cold and very dead face.

Ive been around a lot of dead people in my time..made a bunch of them
dead myself..and his face will always stick in my brain until its my
turn on the cosmic wheel.


All I can say is "Lord have mercy."

tschus
pyotr

Gott hilfen und wir leben.
(God willing,and we live.)
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Default Flare brake lines?

"Jim Wilkins" on Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:39:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote:
Gunner Asch on Fri, 20 Mar 2015 16:25:57 -0700
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 18:34:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"Bob Engelhardt" wrote:
On 3/20/2015 7:27 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Has anyone seen short jackstands with a screw adjustment for height
that are rated for cars versus campers? When I put it on four
jackstands to pull the tires and repeatedly bleed the brakes only
three made contact.
...
"Point of order": this is RCM, your question should be about making
such, or modifying an existing one G. Seriously - you only need
one finely adjustable stand. And it just needs to keep the car
steady - the other 3 can carry the load. So, put an upright bolt
into the top of one of your stands & you're done. Bob

I could, and did think about it, or I could support the lighter rear
with a single centered floor jack. But I'm not going to remove the
tires and crawl underneath with such support.

I Never...ever...work under a vehicle supported by only a floor jack.
Not in this lifetime, nor in the next.


Is this because of something you did in a past lifetime? B-)

I had two buses (interurban types, not VW) fall off the jacks
while I was under them. On the second one, I heard the "creak" and
rolled out from under it, as the stand on the far side compressed
the
cobble stone enough to get past CG. "Fall down, bounce on shocks."
Missed me, I was 21 and nie invulnerable.


I can become too distracted by diagnosing the problem or having to
communicate intelligibly with a helper to remember to double-check
that the emergency brakes are on and the opposite corner wheel chocked
on both sides. It's easy to forget that Park doesn't restrain the
vehicle when one drive wheel lifts off the ground.


I must not be that "good" - I seem to start with "handbrakes,
chocks, jack stands ... now what is the problem?"

I've never needed to remove all four tires at once until I had to
bleed the entire brake system.

Hmm, I don't recall ... oh wait (it has been a few years) - the
reason I don't recall any difficulty with that, was I only did that at
The Shop, and we had a hoist. Which had its own set of hazard
issues.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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Default Flare brake lines?

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" on Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:39:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I can become too distracted by diagnosing the problem or having to
communicate intelligibly with a helper to remember to double-check
that the emergency brakes are on and the opposite corner wheel
chocked
on both sides. It's easy to forget that Park doesn't restrain the
vehicle when one drive wheel lifts off the ground.


I must not be that "good" - I seem to start with "handbrakes,
chocks, jack stands ... now what is the problem?"

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."


Even high-hour pilots can become distracted from their habituated
routine by problems and fly into the ground, that's one of the reasons
for the Cockpit Voice Recorder and the Stall and PULL UP! warnings.
They have this reminder of their priorities:
"Aviate, Navigate, Communicate"
https://www.pea.com/blog/posts/6-pil...hould-live-by/

We considered the effect on situational awareness while developing
advanced aviation electronic aids for the FAA at Mitre. (I just
listened.)

The Red Baron died from a dumb mistake, and I'm not immune.

-jsw


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Default Flare brake lines?

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 20:50:52 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" on Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:39:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote:
Gunner Asch on Fri, 20 Mar 2015 16:25:57 -0700
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 18:34:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"Bob Engelhardt" wrote:
On 3/20/2015 7:27 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Has anyone seen short jackstands with a screw adjustment for height
that are rated for cars versus campers? When I put it on four
jackstands to pull the tires and repeatedly bleed the brakes only
three made contact.
...
"Point of order": this is RCM, your question should be about making
such, or modifying an existing one G. Seriously - you only need
one finely adjustable stand. And it just needs to keep the car
steady - the other 3 can carry the load. So, put an upright bolt
into the top of one of your stands & you're done. Bob

I could, and did think about it, or I could support the lighter rear
with a single centered floor jack. But I'm not going to remove the
tires and crawl underneath with such support.

I Never...ever...work under a vehicle supported by only a floor jack.
Not in this lifetime, nor in the next.

Is this because of something you did in a past lifetime? B-)

I had two buses (interurban types, not VW) fall off the jacks
while I was under them. On the second one, I heard the "creak" and
rolled out from under it, as the stand on the far side compressed
the
cobble stone enough to get past CG. "Fall down, bounce on shocks."
Missed me, I was 21 and nie invulnerable.


You were nigh dead/maimed, too.


I can become too distracted by diagnosing the problem or having to
communicate intelligibly with a helper to remember to double-check
that the emergency brakes are on and the opposite corner wheel chocked
on both sides. It's easy to forget that Park doesn't restrain the
vehicle when one drive wheel lifts off the ground.


I must not be that "good" - I seem to start with "handbrakes,
chocks, jack stands ... now what is the problem?"


Exactly. ? With the exception of putting vehicles on the rack
(hoist), which have to be rolled to fit, every single vehicle I exit
has the emergency brake set every single time. Dad taught that to me
at a very, very early age. Get in the car, put the seat belt on and
remove the emergency brake. Get out of the car, set the brake and
remove the belt. It's automatic. USAA doubles my medical coverage
amounts in my insurance if I ensure that everyone is buckled up, too.

I always work on the flat; won't go under a car on a hill. But I
don't always have chocks. I do demand a jack stand, plus the jack as
a backup, whenever I'm under a vehicle. I've seen local people lose
legs to cars falling off jacks and I swore I'd never become one of the
casualties to that simple mistake. If jack stands aren't available, I
stack concrete blocks and tubafores up until it's safe to crawl under.


I've never needed to remove all four tires at once until I had to
bleed the entire brake system.

Hmm, I don't recall ... oh wait (it has been a few years) - the
reason I don't recall any difficulty with that, was I only did that at
The Shop, and we had a hoist. Which had its own set of hazard
issues.


I never removed the wheels while adjusting or bleeding brakes, either.
Early on, with drum brakes in the rear, if you removed the wheels, the
drum could work its way off while bleeding the other wheel cylinders,
and that created an even worse mess when you popped a wheel cylinder
and got brake fluid all over the new shoes, backing plate, hardware...

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln


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Default Flare brake lines?

"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:04:07
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" on Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:39:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I can become too distracted by diagnosing the problem or having to
communicate intelligibly with a helper to remember to double-check
that the emergency brakes are on and the opposite corner wheel
chocked
on both sides. It's easy to forget that Park doesn't restrain the
vehicle when one drive wheel lifts off the ground.


I must not be that "good" - I seem to start with "handbrakes,
chocks, jack stands ... now what is the problem?"


Even high-hour pilots can become distracted from their habituated
routine by problems and fly into the ground, that's one of the reasons
for the Cockpit Voice Recorder and the Stall and PULL UP! warnings.
They have this reminder of their priorities:
"Aviate, Navigate, Communicate"
https://www.pea.com/blog/posts/6-pil...hould-live-by/

We considered the effect on situational awareness while developing
advanced aviation electronic aids for the FAA at Mitre. (I just
listened.)

The Red Baron died from a dumb mistake, and I'm not immune.


There is a saying that the Newbie makes the mistake then says "I
don't know it wouldn't work." The experienced user "I forgot that
doesn't work", while the Guru says "..and that still doesn't work."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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Default Flare brake lines?

Larry Jaques on Sun, 22 Mar 2015
08:42:35 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I always work on the flat; won't go under a car on a hill. But I
don't always have chocks. I do demand a jack stand, plus the jack as
a backup, whenever I'm under a vehicle. I've seen local people lose
legs to cars falling off jacks and I swore I'd never become one of the
casualties to that simple mistake. If jack stands aren't available, I
stack concrete blocks and tubafores up until it's safe to crawl under.


We'd pulled the engine out of a VW van in Cairo. Told Dave to put
it back. He attempted to slide the engine back in, balanced on a
bottle jack (all we had with us). It did not work, and he "only"
cracked a tooth when it hit his face. I sent him to bed, said I'd
take care of it.
The next day, rather than attempt to move the engine into the van,
I blocked up the engine on bricks, then had two guys push the van
while I manhandled the transmission to align. "easy peasy" - if a bit
longer.

It was a heck of a trip, the starter motor on the 1959 Mercedes
touring bus failed, and we had to push start it every time, until we
could get back to Germany.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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Default Flare brake lines?

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:21:12 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sun, 22 Mar 2015
08:42:35 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I always work on the flat; won't go under a car on a hill. But I
don't always have chocks. I do demand a jack stand, plus the jack as
a backup, whenever I'm under a vehicle. I've seen local people lose
legs to cars falling off jacks and I swore I'd never become one of the
casualties to that simple mistake. If jack stands aren't available, I
stack concrete blocks and tubafores up until it's safe to crawl under.


We'd pulled the engine out of a VW van in Cairo. Told Dave to put
it back. He attempted to slide the engine back in, balanced on a
bottle jack (all we had with us). It did not work, and he "only"
cracked a tooth when it hit his face. I sent him to bed, said I'd
take care of it.
The next day, rather than attempt to move the engine into the van,
I blocked up the engine on bricks, then had two guys push the van
while I manhandled the transmission to align. "easy peasy" - if a bit
longer.

It was a heck of a trip, the starter motor on the 1959 Mercedes
touring bus failed, and we had to push start it every time, until we
could get back to Germany.


Are you as impressed with quality Cherman engineering as I am?


--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon
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Default Flare brake lines?

Larry Jaques on Sun, 22 Mar 2015
14:51:23 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:21:12 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sun, 22 Mar 2015
08:42:35 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I always work on the flat; won't go under a car on a hill. But I
don't always have chocks. I do demand a jack stand, plus the jack as
a backup, whenever I'm under a vehicle. I've seen local people lose
legs to cars falling off jacks and I swore I'd never become one of the
casualties to that simple mistake. If jack stands aren't available, I
stack concrete blocks and tubafores up until it's safe to crawl under.


We'd pulled the engine out of a VW van in Cairo. Told Dave to put
it back. He attempted to slide the engine back in, balanced on a
bottle jack (all we had with us). It did not work, and he "only"
cracked a tooth when it hit his face. I sent him to bed, said I'd
take care of it.
The next day, rather than attempt to move the engine into the van,
I blocked up the engine on bricks, then had two guys push the van
while I manhandled the transmission to align. "easy peasy" - if a bit
longer.

It was a heck of a trip, the starter motor on the 1959 Mercedes
touring bus failed, and we had to push start it every time, until we
could get back to Germany.


Are you as impressed with quality Cherman engineering as I am?


To steal a phrase «Alle Teile fallen aus diesen Wagen sind von der
feinsten deutsche Wertarbeit.»

Some German Engineering is good, some of it is "fussy" - sometimes
overly so. And some of it was Krap, mit einem K.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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Default Flare brake lines?

On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 11:52:57 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Larry Jaques on Sun, 22 Mar 2015
14:51:23 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:21:12 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sun, 22 Mar 2015
08:42:35 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I always work on the flat; won't go under a car on a hill. But I
don't always have chocks. I do demand a jack stand, plus the jack as
a backup, whenever I'm under a vehicle. I've seen local people lose
legs to cars falling off jacks and I swore I'd never become one of the
casualties to that simple mistake. If jack stands aren't available, I
stack concrete blocks and tubafores up until it's safe to crawl under.

We'd pulled the engine out of a VW van in Cairo. Told Dave to put
it back. He attempted to slide the engine back in, balanced on a
bottle jack (all we had with us). It did not work, and he "only"
cracked a tooth when it hit his face. I sent him to bed, said I'd
take care of it.
The next day, rather than attempt to move the engine into the van,
I blocked up the engine on bricks, then had two guys push the van
while I manhandled the transmission to align. "easy peasy" - if a bit
longer.

It was a heck of a trip, the starter motor on the 1959 Mercedes
touring bus failed, and we had to push start it every time, until we
could get back to Germany.


Are you as impressed with quality Cherman engineering as I am?


To steal a phrase «Alle Teile fallen aus diesen Wagen sind von der
feinsten deutsche Wertarbeit.»

Some German Engineering is good, some of it is "fussy" - sometimes
overly so. And some of it was Krap, mit einem K.


I guess all Porsche, Audi and Mercedes Benz expected "quirks" that were always there will continue to always be there with the newer models.

I guess with learning french and german you can look-up recipes for medieval styled bread and beer or cured meats.
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