On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 8:22:14 AM UTC-4, Leon Fisk wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 13:31:22 -0500
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

I bought a single-pole relay rated for "only" 75KV once. It was the
size of a desk lamp and opened the contacts several inches.

Ouch!

The way I remember it the product used standard relays. The key
was that in the off/relaxed position everything was shunted
together to common ground point. Lightning could still jump
the relay but it would be greatly reduced with everything
shunted/grounded together. It was a pretty ambitious scheme if
I remember correctly. The antenna lines were all disconnected,
shunted too. Depending on the frequency, antenna switches can be
pretty expensive too...

One of the radios I used to work on was the Motorola Micor series.
They
had an interesting antenna relay in them. They used two magnetic
reed-switches encased in an aluminum (I think it was
aluminum) housing.
One switch had a magnet shrink wrapped to it keeping it in
the closed position (receive side). A small coil (12vdc) went
around the metal
case. To transmit they applied 12vdc to the coil which in
turn closed
the open reed and opened the one with the magnet affixed...
For an overall image:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA0N1gxMzg5/z/li4AAOSwEeFU4uN5/$_1.JPG

They made a great lightning arrester. Many, many times that is
the only part I would have to replace after a tower lightning
strike. If you
took one apart, quite often the two reed-switches would
be completely obliterated, just blown to bits... Motorola had
a lifetime guarantee on those relays. Sent many of them back in
for warranty replacement. You
couldn't tell what happened to them without taking them apart

Psst... John, wake up, you're dreaming...

I worked in two-way radio communication most of my career. Several of
the towers I serviced equipment at were grounded to R56 spec, which was
very ambitious and the best at the time. The equipment still took hits
that caused considerable damage...

And other towers that had little to no grounding and got hit regularly,
had very little equipment damage. Go figure...

Maybe our lightning had more oomph than your lightning ;-)

No. John is spot on. Leon, maybe its just that you haven't been through three or four years of electrician school.

Lightening or surge arresters have been in use for years (here in the 21 century). Why do you think aircraft hardly ever get electrical equipment damage, though they get struck more often than the ground experience you claim above?

Look up what an surge arrestor (or lightning arrestor) actually is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod

On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 8:22:14 AM UTC-4, Leon Fisk wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 13:31:22 -0500
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

I bought a single-pole relay rated for "only" 75KV once. It was the
size of a desk lamp and opened the contacts several inches.

Ouch!

The way I remember it the product used standard relays. The key
was that in the off/relaxed position everything was shunted
together to common ground point. Lightning could still jump
the relay but it would be greatly reduced with everything
shunted/grounded together. It was a pretty ambitious scheme if
I remember correctly. The antenna lines were all disconnected,
shunted too. Depending on the frequency, antenna switches can be
pretty expensive too...

One of the radios I used to work on was the Motorola Micor series.
They
had an interesting antenna relay in them. They used two magnetic
reed-switches encased in an aluminum (I think it was
aluminum) housing.
One switch had a magnet shrink wrapped to it keeping it in
the closed position (receive side). A small coil (12vdc) went
around the metal
case. To transmit they applied 12vdc to the coil which in
turn closed
the open reed and opened the one with the magnet affixed...
For an overall image:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA0N1gxMzg5/z/li4AAOSwEeFU4uN5/$_1.JPG

They made a great lightning arrester. Many, many times that is
the only part I would have to replace after a tower lightning
strike. If you
took one apart, quite often the two reed-switches would
be completely obliterated, just blown to bits... Motorola had
a lifetime guarantee on those relays. Sent many of them back in
for warranty replacement. You
couldn't tell what happened to them without taking them apart


Leon Fisk





8:22 AM (2 hours ago)















On Sat, 07 Mar 2015 22:55:42 -0500
John wrote:

snip

If the tower was not properly grounded lightning will cause damage.
Good grounding will carry off the charge and prevent it from doing
damage. Our towers would get hit almost every lightning storm and no
damage to the electronics. Most all of the telecommunications towers
can withstand a direct hit with no damage. The power has to have some
place to go and the best place is directly into the ground with the
proper grounding system.


Psst... John, wake up, you're dreaming...

I worked in two-way radio communication most of my career. Several of
the towers I serviced equipment at were grounded to R56 spec, which was
very ambitious and the best at the time. The equipment still took hits
that caused considerable damage...

And other towers that had little to no grounding and got hit regularly,
had very little equipment damage. Go figure...

Maybe our lightning had more oomph than your lightning ;-)
Psst... John, wake up, you're dreaming...

I worked in two-way radio communication most of my career. Several of
the towers I serviced equipment at were grounded to R56 spec, which was
very ambitious and the best at the time. The equipment still took hits
that caused considerable damage...

And other towers that had little to no grounding and got hit regularly,
had very little equipment damage. Go figure...

Maybe our lightning had more oomph than your lightning ;-)

fired this volley in
:

Why do you think aircraft hardly ever get electrical equipment damage,
though they get struck more often than the ground experience you claim
above?

If you even slightly understood the situation you're using as an "example",
you'd have never said that. I guess they don't teach the concept of a
"Faraday cage" in 'electrical school'.

Lloyd

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 11:42:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Why do you think aircraft hardly ever get electrical equipment damage,
though they get struck more often than the ground experience you claim
above?

If you even slightly understood the situation you're using as an "example",
you'd have never said that. I guess they don't teach the concept of a
"Faraday cage" in 'electrical school'.

Lloyd

The poor ******* is unlikely to have completed 7th grade.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

12:42 PMLloyd E. Sponenburgh
fired this volley in
:

Why do you think aircraft hardly ever get electrical equipment damage,
though they get struck more often than the ground experience you claim
above?

If you even slightly understood the situation you're using as an "example",
you'd have never said that. I guess they don't teach the concept of a
"Faraday cage" in 'electrical school'.

There's no need to understand or remember EVERY SINGLE THING taught in any school, just to accept advice and get surge arresters for your circuitry like others do to avoid getting blasted. What do you use to think with half of the time, anyway?

On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 3:54:27 PM UTC-8, Karl Townsend wrote:
External hard drives!

You bring up a good point for the future. This box has 6 USB.
Any big deal to add more USBs?

USB2 is slow and USB3 is new. Neither can keep up with a good hard
disk, let alone the current or next-generation of flash drives.

Rather, if you plan a big bunch of disks connected, you should look at
SAS/SATA RAID systems; one card with two connectors can support
four to eight SATA(internal) or eSATA (external) drives with good throughput.
Don't get the high-price cards with full RAID support, let the pros buy
those, and buy their old cards on eBay...

Second-best is to use Firewire, which can daisy-chain dozens of external
drives from a single port.

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 00:44:16 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 7 Mar 2015 20:20:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
. ..

External hard drives!

You bring up a good point for the future. This box has 6 USB. They
are
full - mouse, keyboard, camera, memory stick, two hard drives.

Any big deal to add more USBs?

Also can you beat the 2Tb limit on USB hard drives. I've had no luck
here.

FWIW, this is the box you helped pick out with a MB replacement.
I'll
give you the old MB if you can use it.

Karl

I'm seeing a 5 TB Seagate Expansion as size = 4.54 TB and I can open
the folders and play a video with 32 bit XP SP3 on a Pentium M laptop
made in 2005.
https://social.technet.microsoft.com...orum=itproxpsp

Low-power devices like a mouse, keyboard and memory stick can be
combined on an unpowered hub. AC-powered external drives can use a hub
too, but when I copy between drives I put them on different Mobo
ports.

"Portable" USB drives take operating power from the USB port and need
to be plugged in directly or into a powered hub.

The 2007-vintage Dell D820 laptop beside me can host 10 USB ports; 2x
USB3 on an ExpressCard, 4x USB2 on the Mobo and 4 more on a CardBus
expander. With 1 TB drives in the boot drive and CD bays it can have
over 20 TB plugged in directly.

There are PCI adapter cards for USB3, like this, if you don't have
PCI-E slots left:
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-S...pci+usb+3+card

They won'r run at full USB3 speed because the PCI bus is too slow, but
neither will external hard drives. I've seen a little over 100 MB/S
from the USB3 ExpressCard which also won't meet the full spec.

-jsw

I think at this point...Karl is needing a RAID array. They come in
all different configurations..most common is 4 drives..but Ive seen
them holding up to 16

http://www.startech.com/HDD/Enclosur...re~SAT3540U3ER

http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/_common..._compar_wp.htm

One can pick these up at used computer places for a couple hundred

http://www.pc-pitstop.com/iscsi_san/ix16.asp


Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke
Most of the good used ones will ber SCSI though.
Nothing wrong with SCSI - fast and strong, not like in the early days
when it was just a short-form for "incompatible"

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 05:53:53 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 3/7/2015 6:46 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:

External hard drives!

You bring up a good point for the future. This box has 6 USB. They are
full - mouse, keyboard, camera, memory stick, two hard drives.

Any big deal to add more USBs?

Also can you beat the 2Tb limit on USB hard drives. I've had no luck
here.

FWIW, this is the box you helped pick out with a MB replacement. I'll
give you the old MB if you can use it.

Karl




You have all the eggs in one basket. I too have a lot of video but it's
distributed over a number of computers on the network. None of the
computers are "first flight" and they have a couple of external USB
drives hanging off of them. The one computer on the TV then plays the
video from wherever it is, I have all the drives listed on the desktop,
all running XP. I think active UPS's give good electrical protection
but I just have MOV's. I prefer 1TB drives for price and reliability.
Current state of the art is 4tb for best price point and
reliability. There have been some totall atrocious 2 and 3 tb drives
on the market. The 3 terrabyte Seagate garracuda was a terrible drive
- 1 in 4 failure rate under warranty. The 4tb Barracuda appears to be
rock solid.
The HGST 4 terrabyte appears to be among the best on the market at the
present time. (Formerly Hitachi)

fired this volley in
:

There's no need to understand or remember EVERY SINGLE THING taught in
any school, just to accept advice and get surge arresters for your
circuitry like others do to avoid getting blasted. What do you use to
think with half of the time, anyway?



Uh, huh! Just "accept advice"... right. Don't remember what they taught
you for good reasons... right.

Most guys who are successful at any technical endeavor don't think "half
the time", they think "all the time" on the job.

Who said anything about NOT using surge arrestors? You use EVERY tool at
your disposal -- including your brain, if you have one. Unfortunately,
many don't do that last... they work strictly on 'muscle memory'.

Lloyd

3:54 PMLloyd E. Sponenburgh
fired this volley in
:

There's no need to understand or remember EVERY SINGLE THING taught in
any school, just to accept advice and get surge arresters for your
circuitry like others do to avoid getting blasted. What do you use to
think with half of the time, anyway?

Uh, huh! Just "accept advice"... right. Don't remember what they taught
you for good reasons... right.

And find a Master Electrician if you want something like that.

Most guys who are successful at any technical endeavor don't think "half
the time", they think "all the time" on the job.

Fair enough.

Who said anything about NOT using surge arrestors?

If you had used a suitable surge suppressor and it failed then, causing all that damage, then that should look like a product liability lawsuit. Have you bothered to check into it?

(not that it's even my concern)

fired this volley in news:57840989-9c84-4ab9-
:

Have you bothered to check into it?

Yes, actually. Since the power mongers expressly exclude "direct
lighting strikes to the incoming service" as a covered instance, my
attorney said all it would do was "cost me time and money" -- enough of
which I'd already spent.

Lightning GROUND rods (never, ever, ever pointy lightning rods on the
roof!), arc-gap arrestors, gas discharge arrestors, MOV surge arrestors,
&c just are not 'full protection' against a multi-MW bolt directly to the
service. It's not the same as when it hits even as little as a block
away.

The only way to obtain relatively good protection is with a long-throw
knife switch on all three incoming conductors; and even that's not a
'sure bet'. The best protection to your equipment is to make sure that
every single item is physically disconnected from power during a weather
event, or when you're away. So now, everything we have, including
previously hard-wired equipment has a PLUG, not just a 'disconnect'.
It's a pain... but it works. Doesn't protect the infrastructure, though.
Nothing does.

Lloyd

Gunner Asch on Sun, 08 Mar 2015 11:10:07 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 11:42:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Why do you think aircraft hardly ever get electrical equipment damage,
though they get struck more often than the ground experience you claim
above?

If you even slightly understood the situation you're using as an "example",
you'd have never said that. I guess they don't teach the concept of a
"Faraday cage" in 'electrical school'.

Lloyd

The poor ******* is unlikely to have completed 7th grade.

Now now, don't be hard on him. It isn't that he is unlikely to
have completed 7th grade, but that his education ceased about then.
After all, it is possible for one to "graduate" from college no
smarter than when one started - possibly even less so. So he recalls
those years he spent as a college sophomore as the best years of his
life, at least as far as he can recall.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

pyotr filipivich fired this volley in
:

So he recalls
those...


Pyotr, that was good! I had to read it twice to 'get it'!

Lloyd

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 14:54:32 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

There's no need to understand or remember EVERY SINGLE THING taught in
any school, just to accept advice and get surge arresters for your
circuitry like others do to avoid getting blasted. What do you use to
think with half of the time, anyway?



Uh, huh! Just "accept advice"... right. Don't remember what they taught
you for good reasons... right.

Most guys who are successful at any technical endeavor don't think "half
the time", they think "all the time" on the job.

Who said anything about NOT using surge arrestors? You use EVERY tool at
your disposal -- including your brain, if you have one. Unfortunately,
many don't do that last... they work strictly on 'muscle memory'.

Lloyd

Very..very well put! Bravo!!


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sat, 07 Mar 2015 22:55:42 -0500
John wrote:

snip
If the tower was not properly grounded lightning will cause damage.
Good grounding will carry off the charge and prevent it from doing
damage. Our towers would get hit almost every lightning storm and no
damage to the electronics. Most all of the telecommunications towers
can withstand a direct hit with no damage. The power has to have some
place to go and the best place is directly into the ground with the
proper grounding system.

Psst... John, wake up, you're dreaming...

I worked in two-way radio communication most of my career.


I guess you never learned that in a lightning prone system always use a
DC grounded antenna system a folded dipole for example otherwise the
lightning takes a partial path through the center conductor of the coax
and travels to the transmitter blowing your relay.


Several of the towers I serviced equipment at were grounded to R56 spec,
which was
very ambitious and the best at the time. The equipment still took hits
that caused considerable damage...

And other towers that had little to no grounding and got hit regularly,
had very little equipment damage. Go figure...

I got out of the business when Micors came out. I went into aviation
electronics.
I had worked on many HT 180's, Twin V 44 UHF and all the other stuff
Motorola made.
I maintained equipment on every tall building in NYC including the
Empire state bldg.
Chrysler building Pan Am building, and many others as well as many in
NJ. so I do have a little experience with lightning hitting antennas.

It all comes down to having a place for lightning to go directly to
ground so it doesn't take stray paths into the the equipment blowing
something out.

John

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com on Sun, 08 Mar
2015 20:19:37 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich fired this volley in
:

So he recalls
those...


Pyotr, that was good! I had to read it twice to 'get it'!

Tweren't just the sixties which, if you remember them - you really
weren't fully experiencing them.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 9:06:22 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Gunner Asch on Sun, 08 Mar 2015 11:10:07 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 11:42:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Why do you think aircraft hardly ever get electrical equipment damage,
though they get struck more often than the ground experience you claim
above?

If you even slightly understood the situation you're using as an "example",
you'd have never said that. I guess they don't teach the concept of a
"Faraday cage" in 'electrical school'.

Lloyd

The poor ******* is unlikely to have completed 7th grade.

Now now, don't be hard on him. It isn't that he is unlikely
to have completed 7th grade, but that his education ceased about then.
After all, it is possible for one to "graduate" from college no
smarter than when one started - possibly even less so. So he
recalls those years he spent as a college sophomore as the best years of his
life, at least as far as he can recall.

Wow, I see the 7th grade reminded you of something that was probably always on your mind. You are too, too funny. Are you into video games or something?

On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 10:55:46 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 13:31:22 -0500
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

snip
I bought a single-pole relay rated for "only" 75KV once. It was the
size of a desk lamp and opened the contacts several inches.

Ouch!

The way I remember it the product used standard relays. The key was
that in the off/relaxed position everything was shunted together to
common ground point. Lightning could still jump the relay but it would
be greatly reduced with everything shunted/grounded together. It was
a pretty ambitious scheme if I remember correctly. The antenna lines
were all disconnected, shunted too. Depending on the frequency, antenna
switches can be pretty expensive too...

One of the radios I used to work on was the Motorola Micor series. They
had an interesting antenna relay in them. They used two magnetic
reed-switches encased in an aluminum (I think it was aluminum) housing.
One switch had a magnet shrink wrapped to it keeping it in the closed
position (receive side). A small coil (12vdc) went around the metal
case. To transmit they applied 12vdc to the coil which in turn closed
the open reed and opened the one with the magnet affixed... For an
overall image:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA0N1gxMzg5/z/li4AAOSwEeFU4uN5/$_1.JPG

They made a great lightning arrester. Many, many times that is the only
part I would have to replace after a tower lightning strike. If you
took one apart, quite often the two reed-switches would be completely
obliterated, just blown to bits... Motorola had a lifetime guarantee on
those relays. Sent many of them back in for warranty replacement. You
couldn't tell what happened to them without taking them apart

If the tower was not properly grounded lightning will cause damage.
Good grounding will carry off the charge and prevent it from doing
damage. Our towers would get hit almost every lightning storm and no
damage to the electronics. Most all of the telecommunications
towers can withstand a direct hit with no damage. The power has to have
some place to go and the best place is directly into the ground with the
proper grounding system.

ARTICLE 280 Surge Arresters

I. General

280.1 Scope. This Article covers the installation and connection requirements for surge arresters that are permanently installed on the line side of service equipment.

Author's Comment: According to Article 100, Service Equipment is the necessary equipment, usually consisting of a circuit breaker(s) or switch(es) and fuse(s), connected to the load end of service conductors, and intended to constitute the main control and cutoff of the supply.

280.2. Definition.
Surge Arrester. A protective device for limiting surge voltages by discharging or bypassing surge current, and it also prevents continued flow of follow current while remaining capable of repeating these functions.

280.3 Number Required.
Where used, a surge arrester shall be connected to each ungrounded conductor of the system and a single surge arrester shall be permitted to protect all of the line conductors.

280.4 Surge Arrester Selection.
(A) Circuits of Less Than 1000 Volts. The rating of the surge arrester shall be equal to or greater than the maximum phase-to-ground voltage at the point of connection.

Surge arresters installed on circuits of less than 1000 volts shall be listed for the purpose.

FPN No. 2: See the manufacturer's application rules for the selection of an arrester for a particular application.

II. Installation

280.11 Location.
Surge arresters shall be permitted to be located indoors or outdoors.

280.12 Routing of Connections. The conductors for the surge arresters shall not be longer than necessary, and unnecessary bends should be avoided.

III. Connecting Surge Arresters

280.21 Installed at Service Equipment.
The grounding conductor for the arrester shall be connected to one of the following locations:
(1) Grounded (neutral) service conductor.
(2) Grounding electrode conductor.
(3) Grounding electrode for the service.
(4) Equipment grounding terminal in the service equipment.

280.22 Installed on the Load Side Service Equipment.
A surge arrester shall be permitted to be connected between any two conductors - ungrounded conductor(s), grounded conductor and grounding conductor.

280.25 Grounding.
Grounding conductors for surge arresters shall not be run in metal enclosures unless the metal raceway is bonded to both ends to the grounding conductor.

Article 285 - Transient Voltage Surge Suppressors (TVSSs)

I. General

285.1 Scope. This Article covers the installation and connection requirements for TVSSs that are permanently installed on premises wiring systems. Figure 285-1 285-01 cc285-01.cdr

Author's Comment: The scope of Article 285 applies to devices that are listed as TVSS devices. It does not apply to devices that incorporate a TVSS device, such as a cord-and-plug connected TVSS unit, a receptacle, or an appliance that has integral TVSS protection. For more information about TVSS devices, visit www.mikeholt.com/Powerquality/Powerquality.htm

285.2 Definition
Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor (TVSS). A protective device for limiting transient voltages by diverting or limiting surge current; it also prevents continued flow of follow current while remaining capable of repeating these functions.

285.3 Uses Not Permitted.
A TVSS shall not be used for:
(1) Circuits exceeding 600 volts
(2) Ungrounded electrical systems
(3) Where the rating of the TVSS is less than the maximum phase-to-ground voltage at the point of connection.

FPN: For further information on TVSSs, see NEMA LS 1-1992, Standard for Low Voltage Surge Suppression Devices. The selection of a properly rated TVSS is based on criteria such as maximum continuous operating voltage and the magnitude and duration of overvoltages at the suppressor location.

285.4 Number Required.
Where used, a surge arrester shall be connected to each ungrounded conductor of the system.

285.5 Listing.
A TVSS shall be a listed device in accordance with UL 1449.

285.6 Short Circuit Current Rating.
TVSS devices shall be marked with their short circuit current rating, and they shall not be installed where the available fault current is in excess of that rating.

WARNING: TVSS devices of the series type are susceptible to high fault currents if located near service equipment, and a hazard would be present if the device rating is less than the available fault current.

II. Installation

285.11 Location.
TVSSs shall be permitted to be located indoors or outdoors.

285.12 Routing of Connections. The conductors for the TVSS shall not be any longer than necessary and unnecessary bends shall be avoided.

III. Connecting Transient Voltage Surge Suppressors

285.21 Connection. Where a TVSS is installed, it shall be connected as follows:
(A) Location.
(1) Service Supplied Building or Structure. A TVSS can be connected anywhere on the premises wiring system, but not on the line side of the service disconnect overcurrent device. Figure 285-2 285-21A1 cc285-02.cdr

Author's Comment: Care must be taken to ensure that no more than one conductor terminates on a terminal, unless the terminal is identified otherwise [110.14(A)].

Exception: A TVSS device listed as a surge arrester in accordance with 280.4(A) can be connected to the line side of the service overcurrent device.

Author's Comment: TVSSs are listed to be located only on the load side of service equipment. TVSS devices cannot be installed on the line side of the building or structure overcurrent device because of the concern that they might be exposed to lightning-induced surges.

(2) Feeder Supplied Building or Structure. A TVSS can be connected anywhere on the premises wiring system, but not on the line side of the building or structure disconnect overcurrent device.

(3) Separately Derived System. A TVSS can be connected anywhere on the premises wiring of the separately derived system, but not on the line side of the separately derived system overcurrent device.

(B) Conductor Size. Line and ground connecting conductors shall not be smaller than 14 AWG copper.

(C) Connection Between Conductors. A TVSS shall be permitted to be connected between any two conductors - ungrounded conductor(s), grounded conductor and grounding conductor.

285.25 Grounding.
Grounding conductors for surge arresters shall not be run in metal enclosures unless the metal raceway is bonded to both ends to the grounding conductor.

On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 4:46:56 PM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in news:57840989-9c84-4ab9-
:

Have you bothered to check into it?

Yes, actually. Since the power mongers expressly exclude "direct
lighting strikes to the incoming service" as a covered instance, my
attorney said all it would do was "cost me time and money" -- enough of
which I'd already spent.

Lightning GROUND rods (never, ever, ever pointy lightning rods on the
roof!), arc-gap arrestors, gas discharge arrestors, MOV surge arrestors,
&c just are not 'full protection' against a multi-MW bolt directly to the
service. It's not the same as when it hits even as little as a block
away.

The only way to obtain relatively good protection is with a long-throw
knife switch on all three incoming conductors; and even that's not a
'sure bet'. The best protection to your equipment is to make sure that
every single item is physically disconnected from power during a weather
event, or when you're away. So now, everything we have, including
previously hard-wired equipment has a PLUG, not just a 'disconnect'.
It's a pain... but it works. Doesn't protect the infrastructure, though.
Nothing does.

Lloyd

Motor-generator. End of discussion.

rangerssuck fired this volley in news:e8c42951-
:

Motor-generator. End of discussion.


How does that protect infrastructure -- or the motor?

It does narrow your losses to only the motor, but it would take one HOG of
an M/G set to run my shop, and cost me yet another 30-40% in power.




LLoyd

The real isolation method is the flywheel method. Electrical to
mechanical that doesn't change with fluctuations.

AC mains drive massive multi-ton rock that spins. On that shaft is a
AC (generator) alternator. It generates the AC in single or three
phase. If the external AC shuts down, the rock keeps turning. It
turns for a long time without input power. So brown outs and twinkles
are never seen on the real load because the rock absorbs small and large
changes.

Cray Research used them for their buildings. Massive spinning disks of
rock.

Martin - been there, seen it.

On 3/10/2015 1:33 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
rangerssuck fired this volley in news:e8c42951-
:

Motor-generator. End of discussion.


How does that protect infrastructure -- or the motor?

It does narrow your losses to only the motor, but it would take one HOG of
an M/G set to run my shop, and cost me yet another 30-40% in power.




LLoyd

On 2015-03-11, Martin Eastburn wrote:
The real isolation method is the flywheel method. Electrical to
mechanical that doesn't change with fluctuations.

AC mains drive massive multi-ton rock that spins. On that shaft is a
AC (generator) alternator. It generates the AC in single or three
phase. If the external AC shuts down, the rock keeps turning. It
turns for a long time without input power. So brown outs and twinkles
are never seen on the real load because the rock absorbs small and large
changes.

Cray Research used them for their buildings. Massive spinning disks of
rock.

Martin - been there, seen it.

Well ... our lab had something similar to make sure that the
fume hoods would not suddenly stop when some rather toxic gasses were in
use there. It also protected the rest of the building, too.

But -- it was not a separate motor and generator. Instead, a
*big* permanent magnet rotor three-phase motor kept the flywheel (steel,
not rock in this case) spinning. About 4' diameter by about 8" thick,
IIRC.

On the other side of the flywheel was a flexible coupling, an
electro-magnetic clutch (brake assembly from a B-58 I believe) and a big
Detroit Diesel.

A cabinet of electronics monitored the power. If the frequency
or voltage drifted out of spec, the clutch was allowed to transmit
torque, and the flywheel started the Diesel *right* *now*. In the
meanswhile, the permanent magnet rotor three phase motor became a
generator, and kept the building going. The flywheel for a little
while, and then the Diesel

Now there were three *big* breakers on a panel. One from line
to the motor, one from the motor to the load, and one from line to the
load. Once, someone switched off the line to motor breaker, and then
switched it back on -- without the benefit of the electronics in the
cabinet. Thus it connected about the time the phase had drifted 180
degrees. It drew a *lot* of current, and blew out the fuse on the pole
pig, and another closer to the substation on post. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 11:37:05 PM UTC-4, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2015-03-11, Martin Eastburn wrote:
The real isolation method is the flywheel method. Electrical to
mechanical that doesn't change with fluctuations.

AC mains drive massive multi-ton rock that spins. On that shaft is a
AC (generator) alternator. It generates the AC in single or three
phase. If the external AC shuts down, the rock keeps turning. It
turns for a long time without input power. So brown outs and twinkles
are never seen on the real load because the rock absorbs small and large
changes.

Cray Research used them for their buildings. Massive spinning disks of
rock.

Martin - been there, seen it.

Well ... our lab had something similar to make sure that the
fume hoods would not suddenly stop when some rather toxic gasses were in
use there. It also protected the rest of the building, too.

But -- it was not a separate motor and generator. Instead, a
*big* permanent magnet rotor three-phase motor kept the flywheel (steel,
not rock in this case) spinning. About 4' diameter by about 8" thick,
IIRC.

On the other side of the flywheel was a flexible coupling, an
electro-magnetic clutch (brake assembly from a B-58 I believe) and a big
Detroit Diesel.

A cabinet of electronics monitored the power. If the frequency
or voltage drifted out of spec, the clutch was allowed to
transmit torque, and the flywheel started the Diesel *right* *now*.
In the meanswhile, the permanent magnet rotor three phase motor
became a generator, and kept the building going. The flywheel for a little
while, and then the Diesel

Now there were three *big* breakers on a panel.

And at demo time, those breakers and that 500 wire and bus bars aren't bad for spending change.

The object of the Cray way was smooth power all of the time.
If there was time to power down ok. But spikes and sags were
not wanted when measuring signals and building monster machines.

Yours was a UPS of sorts as long as the 'oil' was flowing.

Martin

On 3/11/2015 10:37 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2015-03-11, Martin Eastburn wrote:
The real isolation method is the flywheel method. Electrical to
mechanical that doesn't change with fluctuations.

AC mains drive massive multi-ton rock that spins. On that shaft is a
AC (generator) alternator. It generates the AC in single or three
phase. If the external AC shuts down, the rock keeps turning. It
turns for a long time without input power. So brown outs and twinkles
are never seen on the real load because the rock absorbs small and large
changes.

Cray Research used them for their buildings. Massive spinning disks of
rock.

Martin - been there, seen it.

Well ... our lab had something similar to make sure that the
fume hoods would not suddenly stop when some rather toxic gasses were in
use there. It also protected the rest of the building, too.

But -- it was not a separate motor and generator. Instead, a
*big* permanent magnet rotor three-phase motor kept the flywheel (steel,
not rock in this case) spinning. About 4' diameter by about 8" thick,
IIRC.

On the other side of the flywheel was a flexible coupling, an
electro-magnetic clutch (brake assembly from a B-58 I believe) and a big
Detroit Diesel.

A cabinet of electronics monitored the power. If the frequency
or voltage drifted out of spec, the clutch was allowed to transmit
torque, and the flywheel started the Diesel *right* *now*. In the
meanswhile, the permanent magnet rotor three phase motor became a
generator, and kept the building going. The flywheel for a little
while, and then the Diesel

Now there were three *big* breakers on a panel. One from line
to the motor, one from the motor to the load, and one from line to the
load. Once, someone switched off the line to motor breaker, and then
switched it back on -- without the benefit of the electronics in the
cabinet. Thus it connected about the time the phase had drifted 180
degrees. It drew a *lot* of current, and blew out the fuse on the pole
pig, and another closer to the substation on post. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

On 3/8/2015 4:44 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
I think at this point...Karl is needing a RAID array. They come in
all different configurations..most common is 4 drives..but Ive seen
them holding up to 16

http://www.startech.com/HDD/Enclosur...re~SAT3540U3ER

http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/_common..._compar_wp.htm

One can pick these up at used computer places for a couple hundred

http://www.pc-pitstop.com/iscsi_san/ix16.asp


Gunner

Let's look at it again. Karl has a lot of video for entertainment. He
likes the idea of it all in one box. I have a lot of video distributed
across my network boxes of which none are complex or expensive, they are
just old reconditioned PC's from the office. All of my video is on USB
drives that sleep until called on. Everything is on power strips with
MOV's. I've had to repair the box connected to the TV twice now due to
failure to blow the dust out once in a while. I think I have the
cheapest best solution.

Let's look at it again. Karl has a lot of video for entertainment. He
likes the idea of it all in one box. I have a lot of video distributed
across my network boxes of which none are complex or expensive, they are
just old reconditioned PC's from the office. All of my video is on USB
drives that sleep until called on. Everything is on power strips with
MOV's. I've had to repair the box connected to the TV twice now due to
failure to blow the dust out once in a while. I think I have the
cheapest best solution.

yep got 15Tb of movies goes up about 10 gig a week. each one on two
hard drives, so 30 Tb needed now.

I move 2000 miles every year. One box easier to take along.

Networking was easy with XP, can't make it work well with W7. Too many
security things. Never did get a movie to play over a network. For
the same reason, I shy away from RAID. Just not enough of a techy any
more.

I do see the downside of this approach. But it seems the best route to
me by taking appropriate steps.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/2015 4:44 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Let's look at it again. Karl has a lot of video for entertainment.
He likes the idea of it all in one box. I have a lot of video
distributed across my network boxes of which none are complex or
expensive, they are just old reconditioned PC's from the office.
All of my video is on USB drives that sleep until called on.
Everything is on power strips with MOV's. I've had to repair the
box connected to the TV twice now due to failure to blow the dust
out once in a while. I think I have the cheapest best solution.

I second that.

The only time I watch most of what I've recorded is to check it for
OTA noise before a rerun is scheduled, to see if I need a better copy.
The rest of the time those matched backup pairs of USB drives stay
safe in the box. The few things I like enough to play again, mainly
music performances clipped with the VLC player from PBS, Glee, DWTS
etc, are on a convenient portable drive as well. USB2 is fast enough
to play back 1080i HDTV.

This should be the Duck Dynasty daughter dancing as Princess Peach,
though it won't play on my old XP system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyp8DfkJp1k

I've noticed that reruns may be trimmed shorter than the original
broadcast. With two backup copies playing side by side they stay
solidly in sync during the songs but the rerun drifts ahead of the
initial airing between them.

-jsw

On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 07:34:51 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

snip
This should be the Duck Dynasty daughter dancing as Princess Peach,
though it won't play on my old XP system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyp8DfkJp1k

Started playing on my old Ubuntu machine okay. I'll try watching the
whole thing later... Saved it and this is what one of my media
identifier programs had to say:

===
General
Complete name : /home/fnoel/WebFiles/ToRead/Super Mario Dance.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 26.8 MiB
Duration : 5mn 4s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 739 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:42
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:42
gsst : 0
gstd : 304088
gssd : B0AFCF2EDHH1426268377335069
gshh : r17---sn-vgqsen7e.googlevideo.com

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile :
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 5mn 4s
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 1 218 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.093
Stream size : 23.2 MiB (87%)
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:44

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 5mn 4s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 101 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 3.48 MiB (13%)
Title : IsoMedia File Produced by Google, 5-11-2011
Encoded date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:43
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:44
===

It was available as a 720p HD video too (360 version details above).
My old computer has a hard time keeping up with 720p if at all...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 07:34:51 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

snip
This should be the Duck Dynasty daughter dancing as Princess Peach,
though it won't play on my old XP system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyp8DfkJp1k

Started playing on my old Ubuntu machine okay. I'll try watching the
whole thing later... Saved it and this is what one of my media
identifier programs had to say:

===
General
Complete name :
/home/fnoel/WebFiles/ToRead/Super Mario Dance.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 26.8 MiB
Duration : 5mn 4s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 739 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:42
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:42
gsst : 0
gstd : 304088
gssd :
B0AFCF2EDHH1426268377335069
gshh :
r17---sn-vgqsen7e.googlevideo.com

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile :
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 5mn 4s
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 1 218 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.093
Stream size : 23.2 MiB (87%)
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:44

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 5mn 4s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 101 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 3.48 MiB (13%)
Title : IsoMedia File Produced by
Google, 5-11-2011
Encoded date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:43
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:44
===

It was available as a 720p HD video too (360 version details above).
My old computer has a hard time keeping up with 720p if at all...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

I use dialup at first in the morning to refresh everything while I'm
eating breakfast and watching the news and don't mind the slowness.
Later I could play the start of it with Broadband2Go cellular but am
trying not to use up the 1 GB/month early with frivolities. I've
already burned up a lot on brake flaring tool videos.

I have that dance in 1080i from the original broadcast. I thought it
was very clever and it shows how surprisingly talented Sadie Robertson
is, though it didn't win her the prize.

This 1.6 GHz Pentium M is maxed out playing recorded TV. The 2.0 GHz
Core 2 Duo in the DVR laptop can record or play two 1080i programs
simultaneously.

-jsw

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 07:34:51 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

snip
This should be the Duck Dynasty daughter dancing as Princess Peach,
though it won't play on my old XP system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyp8DfkJp1k

Started playing on my old Ubuntu machine okay. I'll try watching the
whole thing later... Saved it and this is what one of my media
identifier programs had to say:

===
General
Complete name :
/home/fnoel/WebFiles/ToRead/Super Mario Dance.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 26.8 MiB
Duration : 5mn 4s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 739 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:42
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:42
gsst : 0
gstd : 304088
gssd :
B0AFCF2EDHH1426268377335069
gshh :
r17---sn-vgqsen7e.googlevideo.com

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile :
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 5mn 4s
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 1 218 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.093
Stream size : 23.2 MiB (87%)
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:44

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 5mn 4s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 101 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 3.48 MiB (13%)
Title : IsoMedia File Produced by
Google, 5-11-2011
Encoded date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:43
Tagged date : UTC 2014-11-29 06:24:44
===

It was available as a 720p HD video too (360 version details above).
My old computer has a hard time keeping up with 720p if at all...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

I use dialup at first in the morning to refresh everything while I'm
eating breakfast and watching the news and don't mind the slowness.
Later I could play the start of it with Broadband2Go cellular but am
trying not to use up the 1 GB/month early with frivolities. I've
already burned up a lot on brake flaring tool videos.

I have that dance in 1080i from the original broadcast. I thought it
was very clever and it shows how surprisingly talented Sadie Robertson
is, though it didn't win her the prize.

This 1.6 GHz Pentium M is maxed out playing recorded TV. The
2.0 GHz Core 2 Duo in the DVR laptop can record or play two
1080i programs simultaneously.

A thumb drive should be able to take all that that you have and play it on your touch screen phone anytime. If you have trouble, your phone's help desk should help you. I doubt you'd be charged minutes for any of it.

(though for best results, its always best to have your phone wired to a desktop wired to a server and then mainframe)

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 09:06:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


I also do that with ebooks, spending zero to six bucks a CD full,
then
stashing them. There'll be more time for reading them in the future,
after the tangoes (foreign, or domestic false flag) take down our
grid.

I think it's more likely to degrade to rolling blackouts as in the
Third World.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout

We can't install new overhead transmission lines because they are
unsightly and decrease property values, or bury electric or gas lines
because blasting will harm wells.
http://www.outdoors.org/conservation...ss-project.cfm

http://www.wmur.com/news/residents-p...urday/30222190

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 12:25:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 09:06:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


I also do that with ebooks, spending zero to six bucks a CD full,
then
stashing them. There'll be more time for reading them in the future,
after the tangoes (foreign, or domestic false flag) take down our
grid.

I think it's more likely to degrade to rolling blackouts as in the
Third World.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout

We haven't had a terrorist take a shot at our grid yet. Just wait.
It's not going to be simple, and it will surely be a helluva lot worse
than a rolling black or brownout. Got PREP?


We can't install new overhead transmission lines because they are
unsightly and decrease property values, or bury electric or gas lines
because blasting will harm wells.

So the fix is: modular nuclear power! Or fusion, whenever.


http://www.outdoors.org/conservation...ss-project.cfm

http://www.wmur.com/news/residents-p...urday/30222190

They have a pipeline planned here in Oregon, too.

With the advent of the super ground-hungry tunnel boring machines, why
aren't they burying transmission lines and pipelines yet, I wonder?

With Keystone, I can't imagine how it could be a good thing to put all
that oil, under high pressure, directly -over- 60%(?) of the nation's
fresh water sources.

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

With Keystone, I can't imagine how it could be a good thing to put all
that oil, under high pressure, directly -over- 60%(?) of the nation's
fresh water sources.

Putting them a few (or a few tens) of feet below the surface won't affect
that, and might make it harder to detect and fix any leaks.

Lloyd

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 20:06:28 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

With Keystone, I can't imagine how it could be a good thing to put all
that oil, under high pressure, directly -over- 60%(?) of the nation's
fresh water sources.

Putting them a few (or a few tens) of feet below the surface won't affect
that, and might make it harder to detect and fix any leaks.

As far as Keystone goes, I am absolutely against it. It's not our oil
and it's not being sold to us, so why endanger our fresh water for it?

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 11:46:03 PM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:

As far as Keystone goes, I am absolutely against it. It's not our oil
and it's not being sold to us, so why endanger our fresh water for it?


The Canadian oil is going to be produced regardless of whether a pipeline is built or not. If no pipeline is built it will be transported to Vancouver, Canada and shipped on Tankers from there. Shipping by rail car is more dangerous and costly than shipping by pipeline.

If the keystone pipeline is built, some of the money will come to the U.S. as fees for using the pipeline. And more of the money will come to the U.S.. as the refining will be done in the U.S. In addition the refined oil could be sent by pipeline to the East Coast. So even if the refined oil is shipped over seas by tanker, it will mean that the costs of gasoline and heating oil will be slightly less in the U.S.

Not building the Keystone Pipeline will not mean that the oil will not be used and will not keep the CO2 out of the atmosphere.

Dan

In article ,
says...
Those with incredible memory may know lightening hit the house last
summer and took out two computers. Boot SSD drive in one and the video
card in another. Both computers anitques.

I've replaced the MB in one and am making it into the files storage
location for everything. It now has six hard drives running and will
go to ten if I can get a drive controller card to work.

Now the power supply is hopelessly under size. What would you get,
especially with an eye on lightening protection?

karl

http://support.asus.com/powersupply.aspx

might help


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 20:06:28 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

With Keystone, I can't imagine how it could be a good thing to put all
that oil, under high pressure, directly -over- 60%(?) of the nation's
fresh water sources.

Putting them a few (or a few tens) of feet below the surface won't affect
that, and might make it harder to detect and fix any leaks.

I meant that crossing rivers with pipelines is simply a dumbass thing
to do, ever. Well, unless one doesn't care about humanity, and is
looking to pare the population down. (I don't doubt that about the
politicians of today.)

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Oh, and whoever told Hollywood to show every dramatic scene in
previews all in a row in 40 seconds? Y'know, scenes which took 10
minutes just to build up suspense? The sheeple don't care, but we
do.

My usual reaction is "if those are the best parts I'm not paying to
watch the rest".

-jsw, once a techie on a film crew.

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 22:58:44 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

Sounds like you don't know the art of movies.

We watch some several times a year and some every year and some several
times a season. Well, we have more movies than most rental places have.

We see things we missed a dozen times before. Some are important and
are not known until the end of the movie. Second time you see hints and
have a deeper thought about the movie.

Some guys watch only the fights. Some watch the art of film making.

Martin

Glad to know I'm not the only one. I also like to watch how an actor
matures over the years. Like a Sean Connery with a bit part in Longest
day, or Harrison Ford small part in Apocalypse Now, many others. I
know I've watched every Clint Eastwood a dozen times, pretty much the
same with John Wayne. Many many others too.

I don't sleep at night, watch three movies a night most every day.

karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 22:58:44 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

Sounds like you don't know the art of movies.

We watch some several times a year and some every year and some
several
times a season. Well, we have more movies than most rental places
have.

We see things we missed a dozen times before. Some are important
and
are not known until the end of the movie. Second time you see hints
and
have a deeper thought about the movie.

Some guys watch only the fights. Some watch the art of film making.

Martin

Glad to know I'm not the only one. I also like to watch how an actor
matures over the years. Like a Sean Connery with a bit part in
Longest
day, or Harrison Ford small part in Apocalypse Now, many others. I
know I've watched every Clint Eastwood a dozen times, pretty much
the
same with John Wayne. Many many others too.

I don't sleep at night, watch three movies a night most every day.

karl

After Leonard Nimoy died MeTV ran Mission Impossible, Twilight Zone,
Get Smart etc episodes he'd been in. I was more impressed with him as
Spock than any of the others, including recently as William Bell on
Fringe.

I talked to him backstage after his one-man stage play based on
Vincent Van Gogh's letters, which I'd read, and managed to discuss his
other work without ever mentioning Star Trek.

Somehow his presence in Boston hadn't been noticed by Trekkies, my GF
and I were his only visitors that day.

-jsw