"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
:

http://moreintelligentlife.com/conte...an/a-thin-line
-between-fermentation-and-rot

Jim, that was a good article. I keep five different fermented
sauces and
pastes in the pantry. In our home, I'm the only one who'll eat any
of
them but soy sauce.

When I was in 'Nam, our unit had to live off the local economy for
about
four months of the year, and I quickly grew a liking for nuoc mam,
and
for the sun-dried, then crushed-and-grilled squid they liked as
snacks.

LLoyd


The down side:
http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/...ases/botulism/
" In Alaska, foodborne botulism is caused by fermented fish and other
aquatic game foods."

"Because the botulinum toxin is destroyed by high temperatures,
persons who eat home-canned foods should consider boiling the food for
10 minutes before eating it to ensure safety."

I've studied traditional food preservation methods but want to
understand the precautions and dangers better before trying them. I
keep my refrigerator at around 32F (foods freeze lower than pure
water) and check the temperature of microwaved leftovers with an IR
thermometer.

I know that people have been using these methods for thousands of
years. They also frequently died young without knowing why. Those who
avoided the hazards might live as long as today. The Old Testament
allots 70 - 80 years.

"The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason
of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and
sorrow"
Psalm 90:10

The Pharaoh Rameses II lived to 90 or 91.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RAMmummy.jpg

-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mbnkr5$oao
:

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/...ases/botulism/
" In Alaska, foodborne botulism is caused by fermented fish and other
aquatic game foods."

Clostridium Botulinum is an anaerobe. Open-pot "aired" fermentation
(kept frequently turned) will not ordinarily develop botulism, even in
the absence of salt or low pH. Nuoc mam, and soy sauce are examples of
aerobically-fermented goods, and both high in salt. Kimchi is fermented
covered, but is fairly low pH (acid), and the acid favors less virulent
bacteria.

In general, aerobic fermentation, high salt, and acid will prevent
botulism.


Lloyd

On 02/14/2015 12:58 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 10:06:16 -0600, Ignoramus4453
wrote:

On 2015-02-13, Larry wrote:
And I'm sure that Bob knows that a city inspector could nail him
through OSHA for his mods, if they were seen.

Huh??????

City inspector? Nail a homeowner through OSHA?

Right. He could anonymously tattle on him to the feds.

Wrong.

OSHA has no jurisdiction at the homeowner level and courts have ruled
that even applies to hired persons for a one-time job of casual domestic
labor. OSHA's definition of "Employment" expressly excludes "household
domestic service." Duties personal to the homeowner, as opposed to
commercial or business activities of the homeowner are exempt from
requiring the homeowner to follow OSHA reg's even for that casual labor
even when the actual work might require certain OSHA-compliant practices
if done for commercial purposes.

There have been a large number of these cases adjudicated and it is now
well-established precedent.

--

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:26:39 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mbnkr5$oao
:

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/...ases/botulism/
" In Alaska, foodborne botulism is caused by fermented fish and other
aquatic game foods."

Clostridium Botulinum is an anaerobe. Open-pot "aired" fermentation
(kept frequently turned) will not ordinarily develop botulism, even in
the absence of salt or low pH. Nuoc mam, and soy sauce are examples of
aerobically-fermented goods, and both high in salt. Kimchi is fermented
covered, but is fairly low pH (acid), and the acid favors less virulent
bacteria.

Which are the ones whose smell makes one want to vomit? I live in a
town with a high percentage of Koreans, and the rest of us have
learned not to get into an elevator with them after lunch that
included (for them) kimchi..

Fortunately, we have few elevators. g

--
Ed Huntress



In general, aerobic fermentation, high salt, and acid will prevent
botulism.


Lloyd

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

Which are the ones whose smell makes one want to vomit?

Yep... the same ones in some more "fragrent" cheeses. Like "feet of the
Gods".

LLoyd

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 8:56:51 PM UTC-5, Clare wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 05:07:32 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 21:24:55 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:23:36 -0600, Ignoramus25764
wrote:

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
You know, this thread has got me thinking. Snow blowers are
dangerous! The exposed auger, the spinning impeller. It is amazing
that the government hasn't issued safety regulations to the point
that snow blowers are useless! Just think of all the really useful
chemicals that the government keeps away from us, to protect us from
our stupidity. Why hasn't that happened with snow blowers?

They are dangerous and there is no good reason to make them more
dangerous.

Methinks the danger element is being overplayed here (about as much as
with the "scary" garage door springs.

Tool.use.is.dangerous. Period. Use 'em or not. It's safer not to use
tools, so the choice is yours. Somehow, I doubt any of us will choose
not to continue their use.

And I'm sure that Bob knows that a city inspector could nail him
through OSHA for his mods, if they were seen.

I'd probably go the route clare suggested, with both safeties tied
into one control. At the same time, I'm ****ed at the ergonomics of
safety buttons needing to be pushed before you can use your chain saw
or power washer. They DO make it more difficult, but they can also
make the tools more dangerous to use.


Actually no more expensive than lawn mowers.

Which isn't saying much. Every caution sticker makes the price go up.
Look at ladders.

I still think they should remove all stickers and warnings so the
population would be cleansed of the Darwin Awardees more quickly.
This
just may head off the rapid spiral toward Idiocracy that we're
_hurtling_ into as we speak.

Did I write that "no more expensive than lawn mowers"? I meant no
more DANGEROUS than lawn mowers. Brain fart. (or a really whacky spell
checker!!!)

Its alright. Feel at ease, because I'm sure academia isn't going anywhere near this newsgroup for a language policeman issue.

On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 3:35:01 PM UTC-5, wrote in sci.electronics.repair:

Safety is an anaethma to me. I think seat belts and air bags in cars
should be illegal. Instead put big spikes in the dash on the driver's
side so that if the stupid **** doesn't watch where he's going and
hits something he gets impaled. This will cure the assholes who think
proper following distance is one inch per hundred miles per hour. Of
course the doors are reinforced with I beams and sbit so if you get
Tboned you're alright.

Well, really. If car seatbelts are done away with, then school buses might also do away with theirs. Then, you can only imagine the fallout. So there's no chance seatbelts are going away.

Guards on saws. First of all, a guard on a table saw is the worst
goddam thing ever.

Safety technology has improved for table saws. The saw mechanism can actually sense when it is no longer cutting wood and is about to cut a finger or arm, etc... and it will stop cutting just in time.
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnQwVZOrUU

Second of all, if you are so clumsy or infirm that you might fall on
that blade or stupid enough to stick your hand on it, should you
REALLY be doing carpentry ?

Right or wrong, I still don't believe landlord's going to go for that one.

Even worse are those saws with the electronic brake that stops the blade in microseconds if your hand touches it. Now what happens when someone gets used to one of those and then later has to use a saw without that "feature". That "feature" might make them stupid enough to cut their hand off on a normal saw. What's more, electronics do break down, no question. Otherwise this newsgroup would not be here. So if that little sensor or solenoid stops working and someone cuts their hand off on a saw YOU guaranteed would NOT cut their hand off, guess who gets a bunch of money.

That's right, the lawyers.

And who said everything is 100% guaranteed? Guards on saws and mowers, etc.... at least "look" safe, right? Not only that, at least an honest attempt was made.

Then you get a structured setlement from a class action
lawsuit, and then sell that settlement to J G Wentworth

Not just them. Your local financial district has plenty of other financial advisors, some better, some worse.

for half its value and in the end, the culpable party never
paid a dime. You just borrowed the interest on it. The
stupidity of all this ****is overwhelming, really. In the only country to put a Man on the moon. Really, the only country to produce an extraterrestrial, albeit for a short time. But hey, even ET eventually went home right ? (never saw it)

I used to be one of the best TV techs,

Right, but then again, everyone says that about themselves, right?

and I can tell you that in the nbame of safety there is more
**** in there that stops it from working than makes it

They said that about transmission systems in the auto industry back in the late '60s with pollution controls.

work ! Reality is it makes it alot harder to troubleshoot
sometimes. Increases repair costs, which is good for the
manufacturer. In the old days, when the TV didn't have a good picture and was billowing smoke we would generally turn it off and call the TV Man. (well, we used to fix all of our own stuff, seriously) But that was common sense. People watched the TV. They watched their show, or there was a movie on that they found out about from the PAPER TV guide. Starts at eight, we'll turn the TV on at about 7:30 and let it get goood and warmed up. Then when
the credits roll at the end we turn it off. We don't lock all the
kids in a room with ****ing Sponge Bob all day. That breeds more
idiots.

I think the logic is that idiots are going to result no matter what's done. I think they lock them up with their smartphones, now. They're video games, cable TVs and computers and who-knows-what-else, all-in-one, now.

We used to spend time with kids. Kids cannot learn from
other kids, they must learn from adults.

Hopefully, yes.

And that is the fucvking problem, literally. Fucing makes kids, and the wrong people are ****ing.

And even then, the right people may become wrong too, five minutes later.

the useless biomass is reproducing alot faster than us useful
Men and Women. The useless are ****ing up this world and I
am all for not saving them from their fate anymore. Let
Darwin's theory prevail, really.

Come on, if you but an RV ith cruise control there is a sticker that says "When using the cruise control you must still steer the vehicle" because someone took it as they could set the cruise control and go in the back, and probaably **** to make another piece of biomass that should have been recycled before it was born for all the good it would do the human race.

Doesn't anyone think of contributing to human knowledge ? To the betterment of the human condition ? Even the betterment of humanity at all ?

I think we need to either start steriliing people or putting them in chastity belts or something. Well thre Norplany might
be workable. God damn, we got seven BILLION people. Tha tis
too much.

FWIW, the Constitution of the United States of America might get in the way of that.

Our food is from overproduced land and is thus has its
mineral content diluted and that is causing a ****load of diseases. When are we going to learn ?

Normally, you have to care first to learn. You can imagine whether or not that's the case.

So basically, I support letting Bubba die when he says "Hey
y'all watch this". I support things being unsafe. Use the dead
as an example to the young so aybe they get smart. If not,
off with their hand or heads or whatever. Consequenses teach
the best, so without consequenses, what happens ?

Well then, its hit or miss. Usually the problems of the world will resolve themselves if left to their own devices.

Now mind you I am not tlaking out of a lack of experience
here. I have been shot in the face, I have rolled a van all
the way across a hole of a golf course, I have had my ass totally kicked by three dudes, I have had my head go through the windshield of a 197 Pontiac Grand Prix, but if I had been wearing a seat belt I would be in a wheechair now because the people in the back hit
the seat moving it so far forward that I could not reach the
door handle.

Safety my ****ing ass, they make more money is more like it.
just like a motorcycle, if my head hits the ground at 85
MPH, I would rsather be dead. Done with it.

You mean without a helment on?

fired this volley in news:ec97df59-2763-4297-aa1b-
:

This will cure the assholes who think
proper following distance is one inch per hundred miles per hour. Of
course the doors are reinforced with I beams and sbit so if you get
Tboned you're alright.

Well, really.

Huh! That was a remarkably thoughtful set of responses to what might have
been considered only a blathering rant!

Lloyd

On 2/14/2015 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 3:35:01 PM UTC-5, wrote in sci.electronics.repair:

Safety is an anaethma to me. ...

How does a reply to a post on sci.electronics.repair wind up in RCM?

Bob Engelhardt fired this volley in
:

How does a reply to a post on sci.electronics.repair wind up in RCM?

Cross-posting, Bob. A LOT of the posts you see here come from other forums
where folks aren't watching, or just don't care.

I will cross-post when I see that the OP did (in order to make sure he sees
it), but not intentionally, otherwise.

LLoyd

On 2/14/2015 1:52 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Bob Engelhardt fired this volley in
:

How does a reply to a post on sci.electronics.repair wind up in RCM?

Cross-posting, Bob. A LOT of the posts you see here come from other forums
where folks aren't watching, or just don't care.

I will cross-post when I see that the OP did (in order to make sure he sees
it), but not intentionally, otherwise.

LLoyd


But I'm the OP & I didn't cross post. I guess that one of the repliers
could have added sci.electronics.repair.

On 02/14/2015 1:26 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
....


But I'm the OP & I didn't cross post. I guess that one of the repliers
could have added sci.electronics.repair.

Ayup...

--

On 2/14/2015 8:50 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:26:39 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mbnkr5$oao
:

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/...ases/botulism/
" In Alaska, foodborne botulism is caused by fermented fish and other
aquatic game foods."

Clostridium Botulinum is an anaerobe. Open-pot "aired" fermentation
(kept frequently turned) will not ordinarily develop botulism, even in
the absence of salt or low pH. Nuoc mam, and soy sauce are examples of
aerobically-fermented goods, and both high in salt. Kimchi is fermented
covered, but is fairly low pH (acid), and the acid favors less virulent
bacteria.

Which are the ones whose smell makes one want to vomit? I live in a
town with a high percentage of Koreans, and the rest of us have
learned not to get into an elevator with them after lunch that
included (for them) kimchi..

Fortunately, we have few elevators. g

You are fortunate not to live in 'country' for a month at a time...
I have. I lived through it, almost died one trip. Listeria as I
recall. A Pharmacist saved me and as luck would have it, the Swiss
were in country - and my hotel - free swiss food cooked by Swiss cooks.
I was in heaven for two weeks while recovering, but still working.

Martin