Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Sorry, forgot to attach a picture, here goes , see website below.

i

On 2014-11-20, Ignoramus11173 wrote:
Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

[I added one more picture]

Yes, I agree with that. It was a risky lift and somehow or other, it
was riskier than they thought.

A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

i

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:51:32 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

[I added one more picture]

Yes, I agree with that. It was a risky lift and somehow or other, it
was riskier than they thought.

Yes, bad angle and probably a lot heavier than the crane operator
thought. That's a bad combination!


A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

Yeah, the operator will probably get a heavy fine (if not loss of his
license) plus damages. Somebody wasn't paying attention. if the
crane owner hadn't maintained the rig, it may fall on him instead,
though. The investigation should be interesting. How many cranes now
have auto-recording equipment? Probably all the computerized models,
wot?

--
I started out with nothing and
I still have most of it left!
--anon

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGFl5I1SSAM


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Ignoramus11173 fired this volley in
:

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

They do. That doesn't avoid the issue of the operator's ignoring or
overriding them.
L

On 2014-11-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:51:32 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

[I added one more picture]

Yes, I agree with that. It was a risky lift and somehow or other, it
was riskier than they thought.

Yes, bad angle and probably a lot heavier than the crane operator
thought. That's a bad combination!

The crane looks new-ish, I would suppose that it could have a weight
reading from the pressure on the hydraulic winch.


A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

Yeah, the operator will probably get a heavy fine (if not loss of his
license) plus damages. Somebody wasn't paying attention. if the
crane owner hadn't maintained the rig, it may fall on him instead,
though. The investigation should be interesting. How many cranes now
have auto-recording equipment? Probably all the computerized models,
wot?


I hope that they had all kinds of insurance, now a big battle of
insurance companies will begin. I am glad that I am not a party to
that.

i

On 2014-11-21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4

Look at the retarded moment at 1:27, dumbass trying to forklift up the
oxygen tank bank, you can expect anything from a crew like that.

But I am glad that I do not have to deal with such huge tall things.
The tallest thing that I handled, was about 25 feet tall.

i

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 22:34:57 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4

Look at the retarded moment at 1:27, dumbass trying to forklift up the
oxygen tank bank, you can expect anything from a crew like that.

Ill bet there wasnt a clean pair of skivvies in the entire crew.....

But I am glad that I do not have to deal with such huge tall things.
The tallest thing that I handled, was about 25 feet tall.

i

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 22:40:37 -0800, the renowned Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 22:34:57 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4

Look at the retarded moment at 1:27, dumbass trying to forklift up the
oxygen tank bank, you can expect anything from a crew like that.

Ill bet there wasnt a clean pair of skivvies in the entire crew.....

At least they were wearing hard hats, for all the good that would have
done the poor dumb buggers.

But I am glad that I do not have to deal with such huge tall things.
The tallest thing that I handled, was about 25 feet tall.

i


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

[I added one more picture]

Yes, I agree with that. It was a risky lift and somehow or other, it
was riskier than they thought.

A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

i

Those cranes do have computers monitoring and giving warning alarms, but
it's still possible for things to go bad too fast to react or to
miscalculate your load. If the computer gave them a load rating based on
the boom angle that was just a bit over the presumed weight of the tank,
and the tank snagged and added extra load mid lift it could well have
been all over by the time the operator recognized the alarm.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 22:27:45 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:51:32 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

[I added one more picture]

Yes, I agree with that. It was a risky lift and somehow or other, it
was riskier than they thought.

Maybe someone forgot those last two bolts at the base...



Yes, bad angle and probably a lot heavier than the crane operator
thought. That's a bad combination!

The crane looks new-ish, I would suppose that it could have a weight
reading from the pressure on the hydraulic winch.

Yeah, at the very least, even if analog.


A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

Yeah, the operator will probably get a heavy fine (if not loss of his
license) plus damages. Somebody wasn't paying attention. if the
crane owner hadn't maintained the rig, it may fall on him instead,
though. The investigation should be interesting. How many cranes now
have auto-recording equipment? Probably all the computerized models,
wot?


I hope that they had all kinds of insurance, now a big battle of
insurance companies will begin. I am glad that I am not a party to
that.

Verily. Many a business has gone tits-up from crane accidents.

--
I started out with nothing and
I still have most of it left!
--anon

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:51:32 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

[I added one more picture]

Yes, I agree with that. It was a risky lift and somehow or other, it
was riskier than they thought.

Yes, bad angle and probably a lot heavier than the crane operator
thought. That's a bad combination!

The crane looks new-ish, I would suppose that it could have a weight
reading from the pressure on the hydraulic winch.

They have load cells up the boom at the top pulley. They have a cable
reel on the outside of the boom that reels out cable to that load cell.
There is a computer in the operator's cab that give all the relevant
information, load ratings based on boom angle, CG calculations, etc.



A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

Yeah, the operator will probably get a heavy fine (if not loss of his
license) plus damages. Somebody wasn't paying attention. if the
crane owner hadn't maintained the rig, it may fall on him instead,
though. The investigation should be interesting. How many cranes now
have auto-recording equipment? Probably all the computerized models,
wot?


I hope that they had all kinds of insurance, now a big battle of
insurance companies will begin. I am glad that I am not a party to
that.

i

I'm fairly sure a company that can afford a $750K crane would have
insurance on it.

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Those cranes do have computers monitoring and giving warning alarms, but
it's still possible for things to go bad too fast to react or to
miscalculate your load. If the computer gave them a load rating based on
the boom angle that was just a bit over the presumed weight of the tank,
and the tank snagged and added extra load mid lift it could well have
been all over by the time the operator recognized the alarm.

Exactly

On 11/20/2014 9:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGFl5I1SSAM

Here's Big Blue collapsing while assembling Miller Park in Milwaukee.

3 died.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxM83_hHJC8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNPQjid8oJc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWbubayWYig

David

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:59:46 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4

WTF were they thinking? Cutting the brace for the A-frame legs of a
fully loaded crane system?

I'll bet that carbon arc wielder had a -large- load in his pants after
the thing broke loose. Morons. I doubt there was any salvage after
that -except- steel. Everything else was bent, tweaked, or cracked.

--
I started out with nothing and
I still have most of it left!
--anon

On 11/20/2014 10:27 PM, Ignoramus11173 wrote:
....

... now a big battle of
insurance companies will begin. I am glad that I am not a party to
that.

As a local in the morning coffee shop is wont to say, "That'll be a
two-lawyer deal!"

--

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 22:34:57 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4

Look at the retarded moment at 1:27, dumbass trying to forklift up the
oxygen tank bank, you can expect anything from a crew like that.

Union worker, no doubt. evil grinne


But I am glad that I do not have to deal with such huge tall things.

I'll bet!


The tallest thing that I handled, was about 25 feet tall.

Wouldn't you have stripped the crane module off the top first, in
pieces, so the demo of the frame would have been safer?

--
I started out with nothing and
I still have most of it left!
--anon

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:15:39 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

Ig wrote:
I hope that they had all kinds of insurance, now a big battle of
insurance companies will begin. I am glad that I am not a party to
that.

I'm fairly sure a company that can afford a $750K crane would have
insurance on it.

Smart ones would. But I wonder if any of the guys on that job in Oz
even spoke English, let along Australian.

It's required by law in many states, if not by fed regulations.
OSHA evidently added regs requiring overload protection in 2010, but
that doesn't cover Oz. shrug From 3 pages of regulations to 43
pages in one fell swoop. Amazing.
http://acadiainsurance.com/assets/fi...Regulation.pdf

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

On 2014-11-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:59:46 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4

WTF were they thinking? Cutting the brace for the A-frame legs of a
fully loaded crane system?

It was not loaded. My guess is that they wanted to cut only a few
bolts and cut too many.

I'll bet that carbon arc wielder had a -large- load in his pants after
the thing broke loose. Morons. I doubt there was any salvage after
that -except- steel. Everything else was bent, tweaked, or cracked.

I am sure that they were scrappers. Otherwise it is hard to explain
why they need so many oxygen tanks.

And yes they do look like a team of morons.

i

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:09:04 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Ignoramus11173 wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11173 wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Wow! It's difficult to tell from the perspective in the picture, but it
looks to me like the crane was set excessively far away from the lift
point and had the boom at too shallow an angle, looking 45 degrees or
so.

[I added one more picture]

Yes, I agree with that. It was a risky lift and somehow or other, it
was riskier than they thought.

A couple years ago I got to play with a 60T Grove moving 40' containers
and we had it setup only about 40' from the crane boom pivot point to
the lift point and the boom extended to give probably a 60 degree angle
with loads of around 12,000# for a container and a small amount of
contents.

I would have expected that commercial crane services , like that one,
should have load moment indicators and other tools to prevent such
incidents.

i

Those cranes do have computers monitoring and giving warning alarms, but
it's still possible for things to go bad too fast to react or to
miscalculate your load. If the computer gave them a load rating based on
the boom angle that was just a bit over the presumed weight of the tank,
and the tank snagged and added extra load mid lift it could well have
been all over by the time the operator recognized the alarm.

I worked on German made Tower Cranes with horizontal booms, twenty
years ago, that had a load limiting device on them. They wouldn't
pick up a load that was too heavy for them and if you picked a load up
close to the tower and tried to move it out the boom to a position
where the load was too heavy for the crane the in/out function stopped
any further outward movement.

I was told by the crane operator that this feature was common on tower
cranes.
--
cheers,

John D.Slocomb

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 17:19:14 -0600, Ignoramus15563
wrote:

On 2014-11-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:59:46 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0600, Ignoramus11173
wrote:

Scary situation.

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/blog/Crane-Fail/

Might want to pay attention to these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp0AtsODx4

WTF were they thinking? Cutting the brace for the A-frame legs of a
fully loaded crane system?

It was not loaded. My guess is that they wanted to cut only a few
bolts and cut too many.

No, I meant that the crane (perhaps sans boom) motor, winch gear, and
ballast (inside the untouched housing) were all there. The only weight
they took off were the light(er) booms, and maybe some cabling. The
majority of the weight was still up there.


I'll bet that carbon arc wielder had a -large- load in his pants after
the thing broke loose. Morons. I doubt there was any salvage after
that -except- steel. Everything else was bent, tweaked, or cracked.

I am sure that they were scrappers. Otherwise it is hard to explain
why they need so many oxygen tanks.

Yes, it seems that way.


And yes they do look like a team of morons.

Painfully.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

I recall seeing a photo of a tree removal gone bad. They were
cutting down a tree behind the house, and had a truck mounted
crane reaching over the roof to the tree.

When you saw it, the tree was still in the back yard but the
trunk was facing the stars at say 130 degrees, with the boom
having cut the house in half.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:55:48 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

I recall seeing a photo of a tree removal gone bad. They were
cutting down a tree behind the house, and had a truck mounted
crane reaching over the roof to the tree.

When you saw it, the tree was still in the back yard but the
trunk was facing the stars at say 130 degrees, with the boom
having cut the house in half.

YouTube is a marvelous place to look for videos of such things,

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 2014-11-22, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:55:48 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

I recall seeing a photo of a tree removal gone bad. They were
cutting down a tree behind the house, and had a truck mounted
crane reaching over the roof to the tree.

When you saw it, the tree was still in the back yard but the
trunk was facing the stars at say 130 degrees, with the boom
having cut the house in half.

YouTube is a marvelous place to look for videos of such things,

This is my favorite evening pastime.

i

On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 20:04:34 -0600
Ignoramus7232 wrote:

On 2014-11-22, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:55:48 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

snip
YouTube is a marvelous place to look for videos of such things,

This is my favorite evening pastime.

I only made it through about half of them, had to get some stuff done...

"Best Diesel Engine Runaway 2014"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmIfjmvXp0I


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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