I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

Electrical tape? Might be thick enough to be too springy though. Might
let the part flex..

Same with duct tape

5 to 10 mills?

How much is that in machinist?

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:19:15 AM UTC-4, Doug White wrote:
I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a

polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to

tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.

It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light

cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.



I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way

to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch

tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough

I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe

even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.



Comments? Recommendations?



Thanks!



Doug White

Hi,

I keep a box of those nice hardwood Jenga blocks in the shop for this type of thing.

I always buy the grandkids a set of Jenga blocks for Christmas and, of course, they get tired of them soon and leave them here at Grandpas for use in the shop. They are very handy for many jobs.

G'luck
PaulS

On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

I've heard plain paper to prevent slipping. Might protect the polish
as well. I haven't tried it. Good luck.

Pete Keillor

On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White
You could use leather shims to clamp the part. I have done this more
than once. You can also buy these low temp melting plastic pellets
that are made to be used to make custom holding devices, such as
handles for files that fit your own hand perfectly. I had many custom
arm braces made from this type of plastic over a two year period
during wrist reconstruction surgeries. As the swelling would go down
just warming up the braces with steam would allow them to be reformed
to a perfect fit. When the plastic cools on something it sticks pretty
well to it but when warm comes off.
Eric

On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

I have been using bits of leather.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

For very light cuts in soft material I have used double-back tape to
"glue" parts to the table. Although it is not a cure-all it does work
if the cuts are light and there is sufficient area to "glue" down.
--
Cheers,

John B.
(invalid to gmail)

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and
light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

Machine aluminum jaws to fit the part.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...

Machine aluminum jaws to fit the part.

I do the same, but with hardwood such as maple, cut on a band saw to
more-or-less fit the part, and finished by hand to a reasonably-good fit -
doesn't have to be perfect. A quick spritz with spray adhesive sometimes
adds a little friction.

Tom

On 5/15/2014 7:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

Electrical tape? Might be thick enough to be too springy though. Might
let the part flex..

Same with duct tape

5 to 10 mills?

How much is that in machinist?

Gunner

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".

David

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".


Nope. Illiterate machinists call 0.001" a "mill".

Competent machinists call 0.001" a "mil".

Lloyd

On 2014-05-15, Doug White wrote:
I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to

[ ... ]

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

I would use cardboard about the thickness of cereal box
cardboard (or shirt cardboard from the cleaners, if they still stuff
shirts with that after cleaning and ironing. We've used a washing
machine at home since about 1976, so I would not know. :-)

Anyway -- the cardboard is just thick enough so it deforms into
any surface irregularities -- in the vise jaws and in the workpiece, and
is a very good protection against slipping. If the surface of the
workpiece is too good, the only deformation of the cardboard will be
around the edges.

Just one use per piece of cardboard. Soaking the cardboard with
oil might make it a little softer and thus deform better -- but it may
attack the postulated coating.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2014-05-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

[ ... ]

Electrical tape? Might be thick enough to be too springy though. Might
let the part flex..

Same with duct tape

5 to 10 mills?

How much is that in machinist?

Single 'l' not double. That is common in some trades e.g.
dimensions in data sheets for intergrated circuit pin spacing) as a
substitute for "thousandths of an inch". The typical DIP package for
TTL logic was 300 Mils (0.300") and the pin spacing was 100 Mils
(0.100").

"Mils" as in "Mili-Inch".

O.K. Checking a recent data sheet from TI for the TLV2474 and
its brothers (OP-AMPs) shows that they now give dimensions in decimal
fractions of an inch (and in mm).

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 5/15/2014 8:16 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".


Nope. Illiterate machinists call 0.001" a "mill".

Competent machinists call 0.001" a "mil".

You fail to differentiate between the sound and the spelling. I don't
use either "mil" or "mill" to refer to .001" in writing or speaking, but
I recognize the meaning in context, especially when talking with
non-machinists.

David

Machine aluminum jaws to fit the part.


this is my solution too. I call them softjaws.

On 5/15/2014 8:54 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

I've heard plain paper to prevent slipping. Might protect the polish
as well. I haven't tried it. Good luck.

Pete Keillor



Yep, I use paper often.

On Thu, 15 May 2014 20:16:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".


Nope. Illiterate machinists call 0.001" a "mill".

Competent machinists call 0.001" a "mil".

Lloyd

Ive been working in commercial machine shops on the west coast since
1996..and have heard NO ONE use the term "mil" when refering to
anything other than thickness of garbage sacks and sheet plastic.
Not in Aridzona, not in California, not in Washington, Idaho or Oregon

Perhaps its a east coast thingy...shrug

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Ive been working in commercial machine shops on the west coast since
1996..and have heard NO ONE use the term "mil" when refering to
anything other than thickness of garbage sacks and sheet plastic.
Not in Aridzona, not in California, not in Washington, Idaho or Oregon

Perhaps its a east coast thingy...shru

Although you're ALL broken down, you must be younger than you look or
act.

You must not remember that in the 1960s and 1970s, all machinists used
that jargon, as well as did their purchasing agents and vendors to them.

Anyone even remotely involved with the space program spoke it, even if
they had no machining background. All insulative sheeting like Mylar and
Kaptan stock were sold by the mil. Wiring was spec'd in area of cross-
section in "circular mils' (still is).

LLoyd

On Thu, 15 May 2014 20:00:29 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 5/15/2014 7:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:15 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I have a small part I need to modify slightly. It is steel, but with a
polished finish, and I don't want to scratch it up. It's difficult to
tell, but it may have a very thin epoxy or some other protective coating.
It's hard (RC ~ 52), and I will be using a sharp carbide end mill and light
cuts. I only need to remove 5 to 10 mils in one area.

I don't want it to slip in the vise, and I'm wondering what's the best way
to hang onto it while protecting the finish. I could use tape, but Scotch
tape is a bit slippery, and the adhesive on masking tape is thick enough
I'm concerened it might creep. I could ue thin cardboard shims, or maybe
even aluminum, but that might mar the finish.

Comments? Recommendations?

Thanks!

Doug White

Electrical tape? Might be thick enough to be too springy though. Might
let the part flex..

Same with duct tape

5 to 10 mills?

How much is that in machinist?

Gunner

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".

David

Do they now? I, for one, never hard it described as such. It was
always "a thousandth".
--
Cheers,

John B.
(invalid to gmail)

On Fri, 16 May 2014 05:43:35 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Ive been working in commercial machine shops on the west coast since
1996..and have heard NO ONE use the term "mil" when refering to
anything other than thickness of garbage sacks and sheet plastic.
Not in Aridzona, not in California, not in Washington, Idaho or Oregon

Perhaps its a east coast thingy...shru

Although you're ALL broken down, you must be younger than you look or
act.

You must not remember that in the 1960s and 1970s, all machinists used
that jargon, as well as did their purchasing agents and vendors to them.

Anyone even remotely involved with the space program spoke it, even if
they had no machining background. All insulative sheeting like Mylar and
Kaptan stock were sold by the mil. Wiring was spec'd in area of cross-
section in "circular mils' (still is).

LLoyd

All broken down? Gee..you know me so well.

Ill have to mention that to my sparring partner down at the dojo
tommorow as I wheel my walker in the door...

And no machine shop in the states I mentioned use Mil as a term of
usage for anything other than garbage sacks or sheet plastic. All the
prints/plans Ive been involved with use Gauge for wiring size as does
the California building codes. Given that the space program is
unfortunately now a pimple on an ants ass here in California...(and
largely going down the ****ter everywhere else)...and none of my
customers use mils as a term of art...and its now 40-50 yrs
later...than the 1960s-70s....shrug.

Why dont we say its a term of art used in certain specific industries
and leave it at that?

Now you will have to excuse me..I need to go empty my **** bag and
change my diaper. Its 4:30ish in the morning and Ive been machining
parts for some projects Im doing...sailboats and mountain bike stuff.

Gunner



--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 20:16:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".


Nope. Illiterate machinists call 0.001" a "mill".

Competent machinists call 0.001" a "mil".

Lloyd

Ive been working in commercial machine shops on the west coast since
1996..and have heard NO ONE use the term "mil" when refering to
anything other than thickness of garbage sacks and sheet plastic.
Not in Aridzona, not in California, not in Washington, Idaho or Oregon

we use "gauge" to measure plastic film here in the midwest, and a mil
requires no extra explanation.

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:ll5cf2
:

and a mil
requires no extra explanation.


'Seems to need it with Gunner! G

It puzzles me how someone who's never used a term can automatically
assume nobody else uses it.

"Gauge" is what electricians use to measure wire. Circular mils is what
magnetics folks use when describing the area of a wire's cross-section.
Gauge tells you nothing about that, and it's that spec that calculates
directly to ohms-per-thousand-feet.

They _buy_ it by gauge, because that's how it's sold. They spec it in
new designs by circular mils, then find the gauge greater than or equal
to their spec.

LLoyd

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:ll5cf2
:

and a mil
requires no extra explanation.


'Seems to need it with Gunner! G

It puzzles me how someone who's never used a term can automatically
assume nobody else uses it.

"Gauge" is what electricians use to measure wire. Circular mils is what
magnetics folks use when describing the area of a wire's cross-section.
Gauge tells you nothing about that, and it's that spec that calculates
directly to ohms-per-thousand-feet.

euro/commie wires/cables are more and more often being marked in cross
sectional area (mm^2 and such), and not AWG. Anything to be different, I
guess.

Tom Gardner wrote:

Yep, I use paper often.


I didn't know that you were paper trained! ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 5/16/2014 6:14 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 20:00:29 -0500, "David R. Birch"

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".

David

Do they now? I, for one, never hard it described as such. It was
always "a thousandth".
--
Cheers,

John B.

I haven't heard it used by other metalworkers, and I don't use it
myself, but I know what NON metalworkers mean when they say it. It's not
that obscure, especially for someone used to the metric system, where
"milli-" means a thousandth of something. When talking about inch
measurements, I also usually say "thousandth" although I often shorten
that to "thou" in speech.

David

On 5/16/2014 5:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 20:16:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".


Nope. Illiterate machinists call 0.001" a "mill".

Competent machinists call 0.001" a "mil".

Lloyd

Ive been working in commercial machine shops on the west coast since
1996..and have heard NO ONE use the term "mil" when refering to
anything other than thickness of garbage sacks and sheet plastic.
Not in Aridzona, not in California, not in Washington, Idaho or Oregon

Perhaps its a east coast thingy...shrug

Gunner

I don't know if it's an east coast thingy. Here in Wisconsin, I talk to
a lot of customers who have no really metal working knowledge so I often
end up talking them through design revisions until we come up with
something that will do what they need and actually be something that can
be manufactured.

I was discussing holes sizes once with a customer and suddenly realized
that he expected us to be able to LASER cut precision holes in some H-D
custom parts he needed. He was planning on pressing bearings into those
holes. I told him that to get what he needed, we could cut the holes
undersize, then ream them to make the bearing size. He agreed to that
and accepted the extra cost. Another engineer with no practical
knowledge of how things are made.

David

On Fri, 16 May 2014 16:55:57 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 5/16/2014 5:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 20:16:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

Competent machinists recognize that a "mill" measurement is .001".


Nope. Illiterate machinists call 0.001" a "mill".

Competent machinists call 0.001" a "mil".

Lloyd

Ive been working in commercial machine shops on the west coast since
1996..and have heard NO ONE use the term "mil" when refering to
anything other than thickness of garbage sacks and sheet plastic.
Not in Aridzona, not in California, not in Washington, Idaho or Oregon

Perhaps its a east coast thingy...shrug

Gunner

I don't know if it's an east coast thingy. Here in Wisconsin, I talk to
a lot of customers who have no really metal working knowledge so I often
end up talking them through design revisions until we come up with
something that will do what they need and actually be something that can
be manufactured.

I was discussing holes sizes once with a customer and suddenly realized
that he expected us to be able to LASER cut precision holes in some H-D
custom parts he needed. He was planning on pressing bearings into those
holes. I told him that to get what he needed, we could cut the holes
undersize, then ream them to make the bearing size. He agreed to that
and accepted the extra cost. Another engineer with no practical
knowledge of how things are made.

David

I don't believe that is particularly uncommon. I once has a project
engineer come up with a drawing for an air pressure probe - 3 inches
long with a #80 hole drilled through it lengthwise. I didn't bother to
explain why it might cause problems, just pulled out a #80 drill and
said "the drill isn't long enough".

He actually turned out to be a pretty good engineer after I got him
trained :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.
(invalid to gmail)

On 05/16/2014 06:36 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
All the
prints/plans Ive been involved with use Gauge for wiring size as does
the California building codes.

You've been working with the small stuff. ;-)

Wire sizes larger than 0000 are commonly specified in circular mils.
The next NEC size up from 0000 is 250 MCM, or 250,000 circular mils.
Engineering of wire size requirements is normally done using amps per
circular mil.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

On Fri, 16 May 2014 11:36:45 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:ll5cf2
:

and a mil
requires no extra explanation.


'Seems to need it with Gunner! G

It puzzles me how someone who's never used a term can automatically
assume nobody else uses it.

Because Im not deaf, yet. Nor blind and can still read a print.

"Gauge" is what electricians use to measure wire. Circular mils is what
magnetics folks use when describing the area of a wire's cross-section.
Gauge tells you nothing about that, and it's that spec that calculates
directly to ohms-per-thousand-feet.

But Gauge is all thats required in the real world outside of the High
Frontier.

They _buy_ it by gauge, because that's how it's sold. They spec it in
new designs by circular mils, then find the gauge greater than or equal
to their spec.

Maybe they do in NASA.



LLoyd

LLoyd

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

But Gauge is all thats required in the real world outside of the High
Frontier.

They _buy_ it by gauge, because that's how it's sold. They spec it in
new designs by circular mils, then find the gauge greater than or equal
to their spec.

Maybe they do in NASA.


Gunner, I respect most of what you write here. That last is the most
ignorant bull**** I've heard anyone spout! It sounds like the **** JB
spits out of his mouth every day here.

I started my 47 year industrial career in a transformer factory. What I
said isn't opinion, it's fact. It's not "high tech" or "NASA", either.
It's basic engineering; the _most_ basic engineering.

That you're not familiar with it doesn't diminish it, it diminishes your
opinion of it.

Lloyd

Robert Nichols fired this
volley in :

Wire sizes larger than 0000 are commonly specified in circular mils.
The next NEC size up from 0000 is 250 MCM, or 250,000 circular mils.
Engineering of wire size requirements is normally done using amps per
circular mil.

Thank you. Gunner now seems to be the expert on what standards the various
industries he's NOT familiar with should use!

Lloyd

On Friday, May 16, 2014 8:48:16 PM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:



Because Im not deaf, yet. Nor blind and can still read a print.




But Gauge is all thats required in the real world outside of the High

Frontier.






Maybe they do in NASA.

What Doug meant was perfectly obvious to me. If a mil means a thousandth of an inch when referring to plastic film, why would you think it meant something else when referring to metal.

It is kind of like saying " tenths " when referring to 1/10000 of an inch. You won't find mil on mechanical drawings , but you will find it on electronic drawings.

Just think, you learned something new today.

Dan

" fired this volley in news:62d32f04-
:



Dan,
You don't find it NOW on a lot of mechanical drawings, but in the 60's
you did. CAD has helped easily replace many tedious operations,
including writing out full decimal places. "Mil" was just a shorthand,
more useful on paper than verbally, but used in both.

But on this:
Just think, you learned something new today.

No... I doubt he did. Nobody gets THAT adamant about something they know
nothing about unless they've already decided to 'take a stand' against
learning anything about it.

Lloyd

On Fri, 16 May 2014 15:15:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Tom Gardner wrote:

Yep, I use paper often.


I didn't know that you were paper trained! ;-)

I, too, have trouble believing that.

--
We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is
no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.
--Henry David Thoreau

On Fri, 16 May 2014 15:15:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Tom Gardner wrote:

Yep, I use paper often.


I didn't know that you were paper trained! ;-)


LOL!!!

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Fri, 16 May 2014 19:45:51 -0500, Robert Nichols
wrote:

On 05/16/2014 06:36 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
All the
prints/plans Ive been involved with use Gauge for wiring size as does
the California building codes.

You've been working with the small stuff. ;-)

True enough. Biggest distro panel Ive installed was 1800 amps and the
power company brought that in to the master disconnect.

Wire sizes larger than 0000 are commonly specified in circular mils.
The next NEC size up from 0000 is 250 MCM, or 250,000 circular mils.
Engineering of wire size requirements is normally done using amps per
circular mil.

Ayup. And that is interesting..but hardly anything to do with
machinists calling out dimensions in mils, least in my AO


--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Fri, 16 May 2014 20:01:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Robert Nichols fired this
volley in :

Wire sizes larger than 0000 are commonly specified in circular mils.
The next NEC size up from 0000 is 250 MCM, or 250,000 circular mils.
Engineering of wire size requirements is normally done using amps per
circular mil.

Thank you. Gunner now seems to be the expert on what standards the various
industries he's NOT familiar with should use!

Lloyd

au contrair..Lloyd appears to be trying to promote himself as the
expert in an industry and local he evidently has had little or no
contact with.

Job shops are not NASA.

Nor do they normally use wire bigger than 4 ought.

Shrug

Im out of this argument. Ill let the experts bat it around..its way
above my pay grade.

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Fri, 16 May 2014 19:59:54 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

But Gauge is all thats required in the real world outside of the High
Frontier.

They _buy_ it by gauge, because that's how it's sold. They spec it in
new designs by circular mils, then find the gauge greater than or equal
to their spec.

Maybe they do in NASA.


Gunner, I respect most of what you write here. That last is the most
ignorant bull**** I've heard anyone spout! It sounds like the **** JB
spits out of his mouth every day here.

I started my 47 year industrial career in a transformer factory. What I
said isn't opinion, it's fact. It's not "high tech" or "NASA", either.
It's basic engineering; the _most_ basic engineering.

That you're not familiar with it doesn't diminish it, it diminishes your
opinion of it.

Lloyd

Im tickled for you Lloyd. Ill let you argue with other experts.

Im just the poor ******* that plans and installs wire and keeps
machinery running in machine shops here on the west coast.

Where we dont call Coke or similar beverages "pop" either

Gunner


..
--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Fri, 16 May 2014 19:09:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, May 16, 2014 8:48:16 PM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:



Because Im not deaf, yet. Nor blind and can still read a print.




But Gauge is all thats required in the real world outside of the High

Frontier.






Maybe they do in NASA.

What Doug meant was perfectly obvious to me. If a mil means a thousandth of an inch when referring to plastic film, why would you think it meant something else when referring to metal.

It is kind of like saying " tenths " when referring to 1/10000 of an inch. You won't find mil on mechanical drawings , but you will find it on electronic drawings.

Just think, you learned something new today.

Dan

And electrical drawings are commonly found as part of the
parts/assembly bidding in machine shops? IE..they are used as whats
required to know before machining 10,000 widgets, Mark 1, ver 3.1.8.90
traveler #134767-2L?


I understand that things in different fields have different names. I
posted about "pop" versus "soda" versus "lolly water" etc etc

Im simply saying that in machine shops on most of the west
coast.."mils" is not a term of art in the discipline.

Perhaps in NASA (which someone Else brought up) or in serious
electrical..but not in the day to day "keep a shop running and add
this machine over there" here in the West.

I should mention that I have done this business for 19 yrs so far..and
prior to that..ran and managed an alarm company (17 yrs) , doing both
low voltage and medium voltage electrical up to 440 3ph...and Ive
never heard the term "mil" used in any electrical application OTHER
than in transformers (and then only in the documents) and heavy
amperage, high voltage electrical.
Wiring was/is speced as gauge..IE #8, or 2/0 or 000

And least of all as a replacement for machining to .001

Maybe we are just a bunch of dummies here in the West.

I also should mention that I carried a C7 & C10 electrical contractors
license for at least 14 of those years..a requirement in California to
be an Electrical Contractor. Passed my tests every 5 yrs quite
handily.

Now if you guys want to chat about plastic sheeting and out of the
trade (machining) wire specs and Nasa..have at it.

I respect virtually all of you fellas too much to keep on with
this..but on the other hand..Ive earned a decent living for most of
those years with my knowledge and skills as well.

Shrug

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Fri, 16 May 2014 21:27:21 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

" fired this volley in news:62d32f04-
:



Dan,
You don't find it NOW on a lot of mechanical drawings, but in the 60's
you did. CAD has helped easily replace many tedious operations,
including writing out full decimal places. "Mil" was just a shorthand,
more useful on paper than verbally, but used in both.

But on this:
Just think, you learned something new today.

No... I doubt he did. Nobody gets THAT adamant about something they know
nothing about unless they've already decided to 'take a stand' against
learning anything about it.

Lloyd

That egg is in your lap as well Lloyd.

I should point out something you wrote above:

"You don't find it NOW on a lot of mechanical drawings, but in the
60's you did. "

Its not the 60s anymore. In fact..its almost 50 yrs later.

Just something to think about.

Im out of here.

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"