On 3/1/2014 9:29 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2014-03-01, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2014 08:50:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014 09:01:29 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message
...
On 3/1/2014 1:42 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Just to link to 3..out of many many thousands

Thanks!

Once you are past the basics electronics subdivides into Analog,
Digital, Communications and Power. If your concern is machine tools
you could concentrate on Power components and circuits and don't need
to go very far into the others, which you purchase as modules.

Excellent point, Jim. A real timesaver, I'm sure.

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

The second level -- (general) covers more in the way of
calculating what is what, as well as more general knowledge.

And the third level -- (extra) covers a lot more detailed
calculations (if you have an inductor of value 'X', a capacitor of value
'Y', and a resistor of value 'Z' in series, and apply a frequency of 'J'
MHz, what is the phase relationship between current and voltage. You
even get introduced to weird things like "Smith charts" -- a graphical
way of calculating complex math at high RF frequencies.

I forget which level it is which starts identifying what various
logic circuits do.

And -- yes, you have to pass the lower level exams before you
can take the next level. Technician -- 30 questions. General -- 30
more questions. "extra" -- 50 more questions -- for a total of 110
questions for the three exams combined.

But -- unless you want to be a ham -- you don't need to *take*
the exams (though they are a good way to figure out what you need to
study more of) and you can take them on line as practice exams, with
questions drawn from the same pool as the for real exams, but just a
computer grading you. I went through about a month or so of trying the
practice exams before I went into the real ones. And I learned a lot
form what I got wrong in those practice exams.

I had been an electronics technician for a long time, so just
taking the practice exams worked for me -- just to remind me of the
things which I had forgotten. If you aren't starting from that point,
then the study books from ARRL (or others) would be a good idea.

Enjoy,
DoN.



In college I had a first class license and worked at WOUB FM in Athens
OH. I never did use the Morse Code that I barely passed. I could fix
things but very weak on design and theory. I sure forgot a lot!

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 15:05:56 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 13:01:10 -0800, wrote:

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:56:26 PM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:



I also confess I don't know enough about electronics. Is there a good

book to start with that isn't too stupid yet not over my head? I think

I can still learn stuff.

I have not actually seen the book , but there is a book entitled " Basic
Electronics' which is a Navy training book. Published in 1972. Look on
Abe or Amazon.

That sounds like it should be a winner.

There may be an "idiot's guide", but I'd hesitate to recommend it without
reviewing it.

There are literally many thousands of free books on the internet about
electronics. Simply go to google and type in Free book basic
electronics etc etc

Tons of stuff

http://www.freebookcentre.net/Electr...ics-Books.html

http://www.e-booksdirectory.com/list...p?category=299

http://bookboon.com/en/electrical-el...neering-ebooks

Check out these...

http://www.e-booksdirectory.com/details.php?ebook=9671

http://www.e-booksdirectory.com/details.php?ebook=8640

http://www.e-booksdirectory.com/details.php?ebook=8091

Just to link to 3..out of many many thousands


I saw a link to a torrent of electronics books:

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:26D4913F5C969A9744EA128BF659FB E0BE607D99&dn=Electronics%20Collection&tr=dht%3a%2 f%2f26D4913F5C969A9744EA128BF659FBE0BE607D99

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-01, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2014 08:50:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2014 09:01:29 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message
news:JO2dnWqGtdLxM4zOnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews .com...
On 3/1/2014 1:42 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Just to link to 3..out of many many thousands

Thanks!

Once you are past the basics electronics subdivides into Analog,
Digital, Communications and Power. If your concern is machine tools
you could concentrate on Power components and circuits and don't need
to go very far into the others, which you purchase as modules.

Excellent point, Jim. A real timesaver, I'm sure.

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.


The second level -- (general) covers more in the way of
calculating what is what, as well as more general knowledge.

And the third level -- (extra) covers a lot more detailed
calculations (if you have an inductor of value 'X', a capacitor of value
'Y', and a resistor of value 'Z' in series, and apply a frequency of 'J'
MHz, what is the phase relationship between current and voltage. You
even get introduced to weird things like "Smith charts" -- a graphical
way of calculating complex math at high RF frequencies.

I forget which level it is which starts identifying what various
logic circuits do.

And -- yes, you have to pass the lower level exams before you
can take the next level. Technician -- 30 questions. General -- 30
more questions. "extra" -- 50 more questions -- for a total of 110
questions for the three exams combined.

But -- unless you want to be a ham -- you don't need to *take*
the exams (though they are a good way to figure out what you need to
study more of) and you can take them on line as practice exams, with
questions drawn from the same pool as the for real exams, but just a
computer grading you. I went through about a month or so of trying the
practice exams before I went into the real ones. And I learned a lot
form what I got wrong in those practice exams.

I had been an electronics technician for a long time, so just
taking the practice exams worked for me -- just to remind me of the
things which I had forgotten. If you aren't starting from that point,
then the study books from ARRL (or others) would be a good idea.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281073791899 Speaker/Mic (Matches radio)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261186498353 USB Programming Cable


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:35:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)

Black, so it's not so gaudy in discrete positions.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/281073791899 Speaker/Mic (Matches radio)

What for? Earphones work much better and don't broadcast it to the
neighborhood.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/261186498353 USB Programming Cable

Got it! I found that only one of two available free programs works
with it. CHIRP did not, but VIP did. Get the program specified for
your particular serial number & chipset.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:





Good analogies Roger!

The water analogy of pressure = voltage, flow = current is useful when
you are first learning about Direct Current circuits, but it falls
apart quickly for Alternating Current because moving water's inertia
isn't the same as inductance, and we don't have the hands-on intuitive
experience with AC reversing flows that we do with DC garden hoses.

Gas is actually a better analogy than liquid for electrcity, but once that
makes sense you no longer need the analogies anymore. Oh well.


The problem with gas is that it's compressible. The result is you lose
the pressure x flow = voltage x current = power analogy, which holds
for liquids, but not gases.

--
Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:





Good analogies Roger!

The water analogy of pressure = voltage, flow = current is useful when
you are first learning about Direct Current circuits, but it falls
apart quickly for Alternating Current because moving water's inertia
isn't the same as inductance, and we don't have the hands-on intuitive
experience with AC reversing flows that we do with DC garden hoses.

Gas is actually a better analogy than liquid for electrcity, but once that
makes sense you no longer need the analogies anymore. Oh well.


The problem with gas is that it's compressible. The result is you lose
the pressure x flow = voltage x current = power analogy, which holds
for liquids, but not gases.

the problem with liquids is they do no compress. You can always run more
current though a conductor and the "speed of electricity" doesn't change.
In that respect, current is more like a gas.

They're all analogies, but the gas one seems to have fewer holes than the
liquid one.

If you try to model a capacitor with a tank and then use liquids or gasses
to represent a difference in potential of the charge, the liquid analogy
doesn't work.

On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 18:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:





Good analogies Roger!

The water analogy of pressure = voltage, flow = current is useful when
you are first learning about Direct Current circuits, but it falls
apart quickly for Alternating Current because moving water's inertia
isn't the same as inductance, and we don't have the hands-on intuitive
experience with AC reversing flows that we do with DC garden hoses.

Gas is actually a better analogy than liquid for electrcity, but once that
makes sense you no longer need the analogies anymore. Oh well.


The problem with gas is that it's compressible. The result is you lose
the pressure x flow = voltage x current = power analogy, which holds
for liquids, but not gases.

the problem with liquids is they do no compress.

I can't think of a property of electricity that's analogous to
compressibility. Do you have one in mind?

You can always run more
current though a conductor and the "speed of electricity" doesn't change.
In that respect, current is more like a gas.

If you increase the flow of either a liquid or gas thru a pipe the
velocity increases, but the liquid's flow increases in a linear
fashion - not so for the gas. So I=E/R goes to hell for the gas.


They're all analogies, but the gas one seems to have fewer holes than the
liquid one.

I've never seen an electrical analogy based on gas. Got a pointer to
one?


If you try to model a capacitor with a tank and then use liquids or gasses
to represent a difference in potential of the charge, the liquid analogy
doesn't work.

But a hydraulic accumulator makes a good enough for the analogy
capacitor.

--
Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 18:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:





Good analogies Roger!

The water analogy of pressure = voltage, flow = current is useful when
you are first learning about Direct Current circuits, but it falls
apart quickly for Alternating Current because moving water's inertia
isn't the same as inductance, and we don't have the hands-on intuitive
experience with AC reversing flows that we do with DC garden hoses.

Gas is actually a better analogy than liquid for electrcity, but once that
makes sense you no longer need the analogies anymore. Oh well.


The problem with gas is that it's compressible. The result is you lose
the pressure x flow = voltage x current = power analogy, which holds
for liquids, but not gases.

the problem with liquids is they do no compress.

I can't think of a property of electricity that's analogous to
compressibility. Do you have one in mind?

You can always run more
current though a conductor and the "speed of electricity" doesn't change.
In that respect, current is more like a gas.

If you increase the flow of either a liquid or gas thru a pipe the
velocity increases, but the liquid's flow increases in a linear
fashion - not so for the gas. So I=E/R goes to hell for the gas.

In the liquid analogy, the equivalent to voltage is pressure, but you
can't compress a liquid, you can compess a gas and you can force more
charge into a conductor, just like with a gas.

Again, no analogy is perfect and they all fall apart depending onw how
much you want to prod at them. Take for instance this scenario- I want to
transmit one coloumb of charge across a wire- no problem.The size and
length of the wire really don't matter. What if I want
to flow 1 tablespoon of water across a 100 foot garden hose? what goes it
may not even come out. The liquid and gas molecules themselves have volume
and must move to go anywhere, unlike with electricity where the electrons
going in a wire are not the ones going out and you're not moving any
materials.

They're all analogies, but the gas one seems to have fewer holes than the
liquid one.

I've never seen an electrical analogy based on gas. Got a pointer to
one?

Not off hand, but this guy really gets into the topic

http://amasci.com/miscon/whyhard1.html

if you get really bored there's more complaining

http://amasci.com/miscon/elect.html

If you try to model a capacitor with a tank and then use liquids or gasses
to represent a difference in potential of the charge, the liquid analogy
doesn't work.

But a hydraulic accumulator makes a good enough for the analogy
capacitor.

I'd disagree. You can always cram more gas into a vessel, but only so much
liquid, no matter what the pressure. I can't stress it enough, but all
these analogies do fall apart, I just feel the gas is more accurate than
the liquid one for most folks.

On 3/3/2014 3:01 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
....

I'd disagree. You can always cram more gas into a vessel, but only so much
liquid, no matter what the pressure. ...

That isn't really true, either. Real liquids are also compressible,
just must less so. And, you'll eventually reach the same pressure in a
given volume with either.

--

"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 18:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:


The problem with gas is that it's compressible. The result is you
lose
the pressure x flow = voltage x current = power analogy, which
holds
for liquids, but not gases.

the problem with liquids is they do no compress.

I can't think of a property of electricity that's analogous to
compressibility. Do you have one in mind?

You can always run more
current though a conductor and the "speed of electricity" doesn't
change.
In that respect, current is more like a gas.

If you increase the flow of either a liquid or gas thru a pipe the
velocity increases, but the liquid's flow increases in a linear
fashion - not so for the gas. So I=E/R goes to hell for the gas.

In the liquid analogy, the equivalent to voltage is pressure, but
you
can't compress a liquid, you can compess a gas and you can force
more
charge into a conductor, just like with a gas.


The point of this analogy is to relate something you can't see to
previous experience handling a familiar fluid. Water is everywhere,
while the PV=nRT behavior of gases isn't so intuitive.
jsw

On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 18:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


[...]

The water analogy of pressure = voltage, flow = current is useful
when you are first learning about Direct Current circuits, but it
falls apart quickly for Alternating Current because moving
water's inertia isn't the same as inductance, and we don't have
the hands-on intuitive experience with AC reversing flows that we
do with DC garden hoses.

Gas is actually a better analogy than liquid for electrcity, but
once that makes sense you no longer need the analogies anymore. Oh
well.

The problem with gas is that it's compressible. The result is you
lose the pressure x flow = voltage x current = power analogy, which
holds for liquids, but not gases.

the problem with liquids is they do no compress. You can always run
more current though a conductor and the "speed of electricity"
doesn't change. In that respect, current is more like a gas.

They're all analogies, but the gas one seems to have fewer holes
than the liquid one.

If you try to model a capacitor with a tank and then use liquids or
gasses to represent a difference in potential of the charge, the
liquid analogy doesn't work.

The best "capacitor" analogue using the "incomplessible fluid"
approach that I've heard described is a divided, two-port tank with a
deformable barrier (think sheet of rubber).

| |
+----+ +----+
| |
| |
| /-----\ |
+-/ \-+ Barrier, partially deformed
| |
| |
| |
+----+ +----+
| |

Pump fluid ito one side and it pushes fluid out the other side... and
"stores" energy in the deformed barrier, up to a maximum which is
reached when the fluid on one side of the barrier fills the tank.
This barrier will, when outside pressures abate, attempt to return to
its equilibrium state, with equal fluid volumes on each side of it.

Hope this helps...


Frank McKenney
--
Wanting the rare, valuing it in imagination, and celebrating its arrival
are the three taproots of culture. It is culture that makes going on a
fishing trip with your friends so much more appealing than just visiting
the seafood counter. Ceremonies and traditions, manners and recipes,
are there to sharpen and ennoble life, engendering both a hopeful
anticipation of the future and a keen pleasure in the present moment.
That is the real gift from our ancestors...
-- Michael and Ellen Kaplan / Bozo Sapiens: Why to Err is Human
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)

Here are the two which I used:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

http://www.eham.net/exams/

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.

Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)

Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.

*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2014-03-04, Frnak McKenney wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 18:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

[ ... ]

If you try to model a capacitor with a tank and then use liquids or
gasses to represent a difference in potential of the charge, the
liquid analogy doesn't work.

The best "capacitor" analogue using the "incomplessible fluid"
approach that I've heard described is a divided, two-port tank with a
deformable barrier (think sheet of rubber).

| |
+----+ +----+
| |
| |
| /-----\ |
+-/ \-+ Barrier, partially deformed
| |
| |
| |
+----+ +----+
| |

Pump fluid ito one side and it pushes fluid out the other side... and
"stores" energy in the deformed barrier, up to a maximum which is
reached when the fluid on one side of the barrier fills the tank.
This barrier will, when outside pressures abate, attempt to return to
its equilibrium state, with equal fluid volumes on each side of it.

Pretty good.

And the analogy for current through an inductor is RPM stored in
a flywheel.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 5 Mar 2014 04:11:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)

Indeed!


Here are the two which I used:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

http://www.eham.net/exams/

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.

Since it's the proper answer we're after, I don't see why it would
matter.


Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)

I've talked with people who claim to be "professional test takers" but
can't do squat with real info. I just smile and let them think what
they will, then fail in real life. Fuggem.



Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.

*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

I found "mars" in my file, not for Tawm but he got included. I should
see him again now.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:19:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 5 Mar 2014 04:11:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)

Indeed!


Here are the two which I used:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

http://www.eham.net/exams/

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.

Since it's the proper answer we're after, I don't see why it would
matter.


Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)

I've talked with people who claim to be "professional test takers" but
can't do squat with real info. I just smile and let them think what
they will, then fail in real life. Fuggem.



Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.

*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

I found "mars" in my file, not for Tawm but he got included. I should
see him again now.

Same here. Must have been a troll with mars in his nym


--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 3/2/2014 8:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.



Hell, I plonked MYSELF! Don't feel bad.

On 3/5/2014 3:25 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:19:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 5 Mar 2014 04:11:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)

Indeed!


Here are the two which I used:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

http://www.eham.net/exams/

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.

Since it's the proper answer we're after, I don't see why it would
matter.


Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)

I've talked with people who claim to be "professional test takers" but
can't do squat with real info. I just smile and let them think what
they will, then fail in real life. Fuggem.



Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.

*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

I found "mars" in my file, not for Tawm but he got included. I should
see him again now.

Same here. Must have been a troll with mars in his nym


--

"


I always LOBED that movie! Mars Attacks will go down in history as a
classic!

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 11:35:02 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 3/5/2014 3:25 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:19:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 5 Mar 2014 04:11:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)

Indeed!


Here are the two which I used:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

http://www.eham.net/exams/

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.

Since it's the proper answer we're after, I don't see why it would
matter.


Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)

I've talked with people who claim to be "professional test takers" but
can't do squat with real info. I just smile and let them think what
they will, then fail in real life. Fuggem.



Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.

*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

I found "mars" in my file, not for Tawm but he got included. I should
see him again now.

Same here. Must have been a troll with mars in his nym


--

"


I always LOBED that movie! Mars Attacks will go down in history as a
classic!

I didn't lob it, but I watched it once. Too slapsticky for me, but
there were definitely funny points.

Have you seen Idiocracy? Parallels with today's inane society abound.
'Tis a _very_ scary movie.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams

On 2014-03-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 5 Mar 2014 04:11:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the

[ ... ]

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)

Indeed!

[ ... ]

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.

Since it's the proper answer we're after, I don't see why it would
matter.

I kept a note of which ones I was uncertain about, and the first
site made it easier to find how I did on those particular ones, vs the
ones where I had a good idea about the answer.

Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)

I've talked with people who claim to be "professional test takers" but
can't do squat with real info. I just smile and let them think what
they will, then fail in real life. Fuggem.

:-)



Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.

*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

I found "mars" in my file, not for Tawm but he got included. I should
see him again now.

Good!

If only we didn't *need* to use the filters, we could see more
of what we want to see -- and what the newsgroup is *supposed* to be
about. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 3/5/2014 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 11:35:02 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 3/5/2014 3:25 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:19:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 5 Mar 2014 04:11:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)

Indeed!


Here are the two which I used:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

http://www.eham.net/exams/

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.

Since it's the proper answer we're after, I don't see why it would
matter.


Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)

I've talked with people who claim to be "professional test takers" but
can't do squat with real info. I just smile and let them think what
they will, then fail in real life. Fuggem.



Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.

*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

I found "mars" in my file, not for Tawm but he got included. I should
see him again now.

Same here. Must have been a troll with mars in his nym


--

"


I always LOBED that movie! Mars Attacks will go down in history as a
classic!

I didn't lob it, but I watched it once. Too slapsticky for me, but
there were definitely funny points.

Have you seen Idiocracy? Parallels with today's inane society abound.
'Tis a _very_ scary movie.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams


I saw it, you are right. UK Uk uk uk

Tom Gardner wrote:
On 3/5/2014 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 11:35:02 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 3/5/2014 3:25 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:19:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 5 Mar 2014 04:11:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-03-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 2 Mar 2014 02:29:21 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:
[ ... ]

Another place to learn electronics (though with a different
focus) is in preparing for the FCC ham radio exams. Especially the
first level (technician) covers a lot of the basics. (Along with lots of
rules as to what you can and can't do with your license once you pass
the test -- since it is government, there are *lots* of things which
become rules. :-) But it also gets you started on reading schematic
symbols and such.
I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended. I need to
study up and take the test before using (transmitting with) it.
With that, I can get in touch with people who own -real- HAM radios.
g He sent me a CD full of the practice tests and answers, plus
other goodies.

O.K. The best practice tests are on the web -- random selection
of questions from the full pool each time you take it. Some pools are
small, so you see questions in that group frequently, others have a large
number of questions, so you have to take a really large number of tests
before you see them all (if ever. :-) But it surely gives you an idea
what you need to bone up on. :-)
Indeed!


Here are the two which I used:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

http://www.eham.net/exams/

Both of these take you to a place where you can select which
exam to try. Both will tell you (when you finish) which ones you got
right, which wrong, and what the right answer was if you got one wrong
or did not answer it.

The primary difference is that the first one shows you the final
results in the order in which the questions were presented to you, and
the second one scrambles the order.
Since it's the proper answer we're after, I don't see why it would
matter.


Note that while these supply the choices for a given question in
the order in which the tables from ARRL are ordered, but in the actual
exam the order is often scrambled, so don't think that you can remember
"if they ask this one, the right answer is option "B" :-)
I've talked with people who claim to be "professional test takers" but
can't do squat with real info. I just smile and let them think what
they will, then fail in real life. Fuggem.



Strangely enough, I find Tawm apparently stuck in one of my wildcard
filters, too.
*That* is the problem with all the junk which has moved into the
newsgroup. Desirable posters sometimes wind up as "collateral damage"
from the killfiles. :-(

I found "mars" in my file, not for Tawm but he got included. I should
see him again now.
Same here. Must have been a troll with mars in his nym


--

"

I always LOBED that movie! Mars Attacks will go down in history as a
classic!
I didn't lob it, but I watched it once. Too slapsticky for me, but
there were definitely funny points.

Have you seen Idiocracy? Parallels with today's inane society abound.
'Tis a _very_ scary movie.

--
Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before
which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
-- John Quincy Adams


I saw it, you are right. UK Uk uk uk



Here are a couple actual electronics classes.
They are online courses from MIT and Rice University. Both are FREE to
audit (you get all the class stuff but no certificate or anything.) If
you want a certificate it costs money (not much but not free)

https://www.edx.org/course/mitx/mitx...ectronics-1130
(archived course)

https://www.edx.org/course/ricex/ric...magnetism-1356


--
Steve W.

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:56:26 PM UTC+2, Tom Gardner wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and knowledge. My other battery charger is a

one pound electronic machine. It works OK, supplies 2, 6 and 12 amps

and has all sorts of buttons and lights! What it won't do is charge a

totally dead battery...thus repairing the old Craftsman. It displays:

"BAD BATTERY" and I have to hook-up jumper cables from another vehicle

to get a few percent of a charge to get the electronic charger to work.



I also confess I don't know enough about electronics. Is there a good

book to start with that isn't too stupid yet not over my head? I think

I can still learn stuff.

Now you could get all in one from Hello World Magazine. The Hello World Magazine is a free online magazine which deals with fashion, beauty, homemade craft, recipe, entertainment, study, traveling and much more only for you. It would change your lifestyle. http://www.helloworldmagazine.com

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:35:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)

Black, so it's not so gaudy in discrete positions.


Red, so it doesn't blend in with all the others at a hamfest where it
may be stolen.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/281073791899 Speaker/Mic (Matches radio)

What for? Earphones work much better and don't broadcast it to the
neighborhood.


See above. For hamfests.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/261186498353 USB Programming Cable

Got it! I found that only one of two available free programs works
with it. CHIRP did not, but VIP did. Get the program specified for
your particular serial number & chipset.


What's wrong with the software on the Baofeng website?


BTW, do you know you can also receive FM broadcast with it?




--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:36:45 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:35:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)

Black, so it's not so gaudy in discrete positions.


Red, so it doesn't blend in with all the others at a hamfest where it
may be stolen.

Engrave your name on the top of the unit and rub with white paint.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/281073791899 Speaker/Mic (Matches radio)

What for? Earphones work much better and don't broadcast it to the
neighborhood.


See above. For hamfests.

Whatever's your pleasure, sir.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/261186498353 USB Programming Cable

Got it! I found that only one of two available free programs works
with it. CHIRP did not, but VIP did. Get the program specified for
your particular serial number & chipset.


What's wrong with the software on the Baofeng website?

That's the VIP software from Baofeng.


BTW, do you know you can also receive FM broadcast with it?

Yabbut, how many stations broadcast commercial-free music 24/7, hmmm?
I can't stand that **** any more. I just watched a pilot for Believe
on HULU and just about threw up from the commercials every six GDMF
minutes. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! No more HULU for me, ever.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:36:45 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:35:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)

Black, so it's not so gaudy in discrete positions.


Red, so it doesn't blend in with all the others at a hamfest where it
may be stolen.

Engrave your name on the top of the unit and rub with white paint.


No thanks. I don't disfigure my property like that. If anything, it
would be marked under the battery and on the battery. At home, I have a
converted Harris high band mobile converted to two meters. You'd like
it. It is all solid state, except for a final tube. The filament is
only turned on when you transmit. It came with a used HP lab grade
variable power supply that was worth five times what I paid for the
radio. It ca from a two way radio business that was closing their doors.
I paid the owner $35 for it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201037172213

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281073791899 Speaker/Mic (Matches radio)

What for? Earphones work much better and don't broadcast it to the
neighborhood.


See above. For hamfests.

Whatever's your pleasure, sir.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/261186498353 USB Programming Cable

Got it! I found that only one of two available free programs works
with it. CHIRP did not, but VIP did. Get the program specified for
your particular serial number & chipset.


What's wrong with the software on the Baofeng website?

That's the VIP software from Baofeng.

BTW, do you know you can also receive FM broadcast with it?

Yabbut, how many stations broadcast commercial-free music 24/7, hmmm?
I can't stand that **** any more. I just watched a pilot for Believe
on HULU and just about threw up from the commercials every six GDMF
minutes. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! No more HULU for me, ever.


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:36:45 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:35:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)

Black, so it's not so gaudy in discrete positions.


Red, so it doesn't blend in with all the others at a hamfest where it
may be stolen.

Engrave your name on the top of the unit and rub with white paint.


No thanks. I don't disfigure my property like that. If anything, it

That's one of the few ways to catch it when stolen at a public outing.
shrug


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:36:45 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:35:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)

Black, so it's not so gaudy in discrete positions.


Red, so it doesn't blend in with all the others at a hamfest where it
may be stolen.

Engrave your name on the top of the unit and rub with white paint.


No thanks. I don't disfigure my property like that. If anything, it

That's one of the few ways to catch it when stolen at a public outing.
shrug


They'll have to take the radio off my belt, and the speaker mic off
my shirt or jacket collar to steal it.


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...


It is, around here, at the top of the hour. Especially during
emergencies. Definitely during a hurricane.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...

During our last New England outage I searched all over the FM dial for
weather reports. The most useful source was National Weather Service
radar maps on the Internet, either from dialup or a prepaid cell phone
modem I use as backup. This laptop uses less than a quarter of the
electricity my desktop requires and can run much longer on 12V
batteries.

The radar image showed approaching precipitation so I knew when to
repair and when to cover up roof damage.
jsw

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 01:40:06 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:36:45 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:35:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I plan on doing that RSN. I already bought the radio, a little
handheld Baofeng UV-5R which my ham buddy recommended.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271283545245 Radio (Red, so you won't lose it so
easy)

Black, so it's not so gaudy in discrete positions.


Red, so it doesn't blend in with all the others at a hamfest where it
may be stolen.

Engrave your name on the top of the unit and rub with white paint.


No thanks. I don't disfigure my property like that. If anything, it

That's one of the few ways to catch it when stolen at a public outing.
shrug


They'll have to take the radio off my belt, and the speaker mic off
my shirt or jacket collar to steal it.

So why bother having a -red- one?


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...


It is, around here, at the top of the hour. Especially during
emergencies. Definitely during a hurricane.

Yeah, I guess people who live in emergency-prone areas would have
that, though we didn't have it in CA when I lived there. The seasons
there were Fire, Earthquake, Mudslide, and Bake.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:32:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...

During our last New England outage I searched all over the FM dial for
weather reports. The most useful source was National Weather Service
radar maps on the Internet, either from dialup or a prepaid cell phone
modem I use as backup. This laptop uses less than a quarter of the
electricity my desktop requires and can run much longer on 12V
batteries.

Got -portable- solar backup to that, too? $66 on eBay gets you a 13W
briefcase solar setup, complete with charge controller. I just paid
my taxes and had enough left over to consider the purchase.


The radar image showed approaching precipitation so I knew when to
repair and when to cover up roof damage.

Value of that service: PRICELESS!


Does anyone here raise rabbits? Got tips?

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:32:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...

During our last New England outage I searched all over the FM dial
for
weather reports. The most useful source was National Weather Service
radar maps on the Internet, either from dialup or a prepaid cell
phone
modem I use as backup. This laptop uses less than a quarter of the
electricity my desktop requires and can run much longer on 12V
batteries.

Got -portable- solar backup to that, too? $66 on eBay gets you a
13W
briefcase solar setup, complete with charge controller. I just paid
my taxes and had enough left over to consider the purchase.


I bought one of those folding panels from the HF store and found the
glass was cracked when I got it home and opened the box. The panels
still worked so I tried it before returning it. The output was 0.6 to
0.7A, or roughly 8W considering losses. The laptop averages 25-35W in
use.

The panels are rated at the maximum power they can deliver at ~17V,
while the battery returns the same current at 12V.

The non-folding panels I bought at the same time (and did examine in
the HF parking lot) put out more current for less money.

There's no public transportation around here so if I go anywhere I
have the car and its alternator to generate electricity. I think a 12V
jumpstart pack would make better use of the space in the car than a
folding solar panel.

This is the most useful energy device I've bought from HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-...ack-60703.html

jsw

Larry Jaques wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

They'll have to take the radio off my belt, and the speaker mic off
my shirt or jacket collar to steal it.

So why bother having a -red- one?


I will be selling connectors and other ham related parts, and
possibly the radios. I also like RED.


Yeah, I guess people who live in emergency-prone areas would have
that, though we didn't have it in CA when I lived there. The seasons
there were Fire, Earthquake, Mudslide, and Bake.


One local news & talk station (WOCA) simulcasts on AM & FM, and
streams online.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:14:03 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:32:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...

During our last New England outage I searched all over the FM dial
for
weather reports. The most useful source was National Weather Service
radar maps on the Internet, either from dialup or a prepaid cell
phone
modem I use as backup. This laptop uses less than a quarter of the
electricity my desktop requires and can run much longer on 12V
batteries.

Got -portable- solar backup to that, too? $66 on eBay gets you a
13W
briefcase solar setup, complete with charge controller. I just paid
my taxes and had enough left over to consider the purchase.


I bought one of those folding panels from the HF store and found the
glass was cracked when I got it home and opened the box. The panels
still worked so I tried it before returning it. The output was 0.6 to
0.7A, or roughly 8W considering losses. The laptop averages 25-35W in
use.

8W is miserable output, agreed. But what do the 5W panels put out?
Or the 1W chargers made for phones? Ick! g

I know they won't run a laptop, but they'll charge the battery. So,
how much will you be using the laptop when the power is off? In a
major event, the Internet may be down, too.



The panels are rated at the maximum power they can deliver at ~17V,
while the battery returns the same current at 12V.

The non-folding panels I bought at the same time (and did examine in
the HF parking lot) put out more current for less money.

Note the emphatic word "-portable-" in my text above.


There's no public transportation around here so if I go anywhere I
have the car and its alternator to generate electricity. I think a 12V
jumpstart pack would make better use of the space in the car than a
folding solar panel.

This is the most useful energy device I've bought from HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-...ack-60703.html

$99? Ouch! That's a $25-35 battery and a $10 set of cheap cables, a
couple bucks worth of LEDs, and a couple bucks worth of cigarette
lighter sockets, plus 17 cents worth of plastic. But those have to be
charged/recharged, too, so they're 1-shots during a crisis.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:14:03 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:32:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
m...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in
an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...

During our last New England outage I searched all over the FM dial
for
weather reports. The most useful source was National Weather
Service
radar maps on the Internet, either from dialup or a prepaid cell
phone
modem I use as backup. This laptop uses less than a quarter of the
electricity my desktop requires and can run much longer on 12V
batteries.

Got -portable- solar backup to that, too? $66 on eBay gets you a
13W
briefcase solar setup, complete with charge controller. I just
paid
my taxes and had enough left over to consider the purchase.


I bought one of those folding panels from the HF store and found the
glass was cracked when I got it home and opened the box. The panels
still worked so I tried it before returning it. The output was 0.6
to
0.7A, or roughly 8W considering losses. The laptop averages 25-35W
in
use.

8W is miserable output, agreed. But what do the 5W panels put out?
Or the 1W chargers made for phones? Ick! g

1W at 12V is 83mA. When it's safely behind the windshield I don't see
half that.

I know they won't run a laptop, but they'll charge the battery. So,
how much will you be using the laptop when the power is off? In a
major event, the Internet may be down, too.

Solar panels won't charge the laptop directly, they put out either
more or less voltage and current than the charger wants as the sun
moves and clouds dim it. You need a 12V battery that's safe to pack
and carry. These look promising but I can't recommend them for any
serious use, the battery runs down too fast.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COLEMAN-MOBI...-/171194903612

The panels are rated at the maximum power they can deliver at ~17V,
while the battery returns the same current at 12V.

The non-folding panels I bought at the same time (and did examine in
the HF parking lot) put out more current for less money.

Note the emphatic word "-portable-" in my text above.

They are "portable" because they have a handle, but so does an upright
piano. I wasn't impressed enough to buy another one. They are as heavy
as the rigid panels. Maybe they's be useful if I was camping out of
the car in a place so remote no one would see and steal them. However
if I could drive there so could others. They are way too big and heavy
to backpack or carry on a bike.

http://www.amazon.com/Unisolar-Flexi.../dp/B006EP6MCU
As an example to pursue.

This is the most useful energy device I've bought from HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-...ack-60703.html

$99? Ouch! That's a $25-35 battery and a $10 set of cheap cables,
a
couple bucks worth of LEDs, and a couple bucks worth of cigarette
lighter sockets, plus 17 cents worth of plastic. But those have to
be
charged/recharged, too, so they're 1-shots during a crisis.

The only 12V 18AH SLA batteries I can buy for $25-35 is second-hand
swap-outs from Exit lights.

You missed the built-in 120VAC inverter and air compressor. I carried
an older yellow one out into the woods and pumped up the tires of a
semi-abandoned Jeep Cherokee so we could move it. IIRC one tire took
about 10 - 15 minutes from flat to ~25 PSI. The others weren't fully
flat. The battery seemed to have plenty of remaining charge
afterwards. I don't take time to make careful engineering measurements
when working with a bunch of guys.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:lg073q$oqr$1
@dont-email.me:

Solar panels won't charge the laptop directly, they put out either
more or less voltage and current than the charger wants as the sun
moves and clouds dim it. You need a 12V battery that's safe to pack
and carry.

Jim, not for nothin', but have you ever heard of a buck-boost regulator?

Just askin'...

Lloyd

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 20:33:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:14:03 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:32:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
om...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:38:51 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The FM capability allows you to listen to news broadcasts in
an
emergency without carrying another radio.

News is broadcast on FM stations now? It's been awhile...

During our last New England outage I searched all over the FM dial
for
weather reports. The most useful source was National Weather
Service
radar maps on the Internet, either from dialup or a prepaid cell
phone
modem I use as backup. This laptop uses less than a quarter of the
electricity my desktop requires and can run much longer on 12V
batteries.

Got -portable- solar backup to that, too? $66 on eBay gets you a
13W
briefcase solar setup, complete with charge controller. I just
paid
my taxes and had enough left over to consider the purchase.


I bought one of those folding panels from the HF store and found the
glass was cracked when I got it home and opened the box. The panels
still worked so I tried it before returning it. The output was 0.6
to
0.7A, or roughly 8W considering losses. The laptop averages 25-35W
in
use.

8W is miserable output, agreed. But what do the 5W panels put out?
Or the 1W chargers made for phones? Ick! g

1W at 12V is 83mA. When it's safely behind the windshield I don't see
half that.

Grok that.


I know they won't run a laptop, but they'll charge the battery. So,
how much will you be using the laptop when the power is off? In a
major event, the Internet may be down, too.

Solar panels won't charge the laptop directly, they put out either
more or less voltage and current than the charger wants as the sun
moves and clouds dim it. You need a 12V battery that's safe to pack
and carry. These look promising but I can't recommend them for any
serious use, the battery runs down too fast.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COLEMAN-MOBI...-/171194903612

I wouldn't own another Coleman product at this late date. They sold
out and buy only the worst tech from China at the lowest prices. I
bought one of their headlamps and it's worse **** than no-name stuff
you see on eBay for a penny with free shipping. Just gawdawful stuff.


The panels are rated at the maximum power they can deliver at ~17V,
while the battery returns the same current at 12V.

The non-folding panels I bought at the same time (and did examine in
the HF parking lot) put out more current for less money.

Note the emphatic word "-portable-" in my text above.

They are "portable" because they have a handle, but so does an upright
piano. I wasn't impressed enough to buy another one. They are as heavy
as the rigid panels. Maybe they's be useful if I was camping out of
the car in a place so remote no one would see and steal them. However
if I could drive there so could others. They are way too big and heavy
to backpack or carry on a bike.

I'm looking to the post-SHTF scenarios. 12 lbs are certainly
carryable, if not likeable.



http://www.amazon.com/Unisolar-Flexi.../dp/B006EP6MCU
As an example to pursue.

This is the most useful energy device I've bought from HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-...ack-60703.html

$99? Ouch! That's a $25-35 battery and a $10 set of cheap cables,
a
couple bucks worth of LEDs, and a couple bucks worth of cigarette
lighter sockets, plus 17 cents worth of plastic. But those have to
be
charged/recharged, too, so they're 1-shots during a crisis.

The only 12V 18AH SLA batteries I can buy for $25-35 is second-hand
swap-outs from Exit lights.

Check both Amazon and eBay for that price range, including shipping.
I've happily used PowerSonics and UPCs for decades, with no early
failures. SLAs tend to outlast fillables by 2-3x.


You missed the built-in 120VAC inverter and air compressor. I carried

YerrightIdid. Mea culpa. g


an older yellow one out into the woods and pumped up the tires of a
semi-abandoned Jeep Cherokee so we could move it. IIRC one tire took
about 10 - 15 minutes from flat to ~25 PSI.

What a powerhouse! :/


The others weren't fully
flat. The battery seemed to have plenty of remaining charge
afterwards. I don't take time to make careful engineering measurements
when working with a bunch of guys.

18ah is a lot, so I'm not too surprised.



--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:lg073q$oqr$1
@dont-email.me:

Solar panels won't charge the laptop directly, they put out either
more or less voltage and current than the charger wants as the sun
moves and clouds dim it. You need a 12V battery that's safe to pack
and carry.

Jim, not for nothin', but have you ever heard of a buck-boost
regulator?

Just askin'...

Lloyd

I posted a reference to a Drok regulator recently.

If Auto-Air laptop power supplies were cheaper I might test the input
limits of one, but I haven't and can't state how they will function
with other than a stable 12VDC source. Powering one switcher from
another doesn't always work. Some laptop supplies reportedly won't run
off a UPS.
jsw

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

I'm looking to the post-SHTF scenarios. 12 lbs are certainly
carryable, if not likeable.

I don't think SHTF is likely, but BTDT.
I used to run my motorcycle into the woods for the night and hide it
and my tent, so the landowner or kids wouldn't find and bother me.
Sometimes the first good spot was taken and I had to look further. In
such a situation I lit no fire and didn't even stand up much, and had
no need for electricity beyond the bright flashlight to blind night
intruders. On foot, motorcycle or canoe it's hard enough to carry the
necessities to stay warm, dry and fed, never mind a weapon, ammo and a
radio.

One such time I was working a show at a mountain resort for some
friends. They had rooms, I slept out in the forest. They didn't notice
that the windows were open behind the drapes and woke up shivering,
while I got a better night's sleep out on the pine needles in my
home-made down bag.

an older yellow one out into the woods and pumped up the tires of a
semi-abandoned Jeep Cherokee so we could move it. IIRC one tire took
about 10 - 15 minutes from flat to ~25 PSI.

What a powerhouse! :/

It inflated them faster than the 120V compressor we didn't have.
jsw

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 00:52:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

I'm looking to the post-SHTF scenarios. 12 lbs are certainly
carryable, if not likeable.

I don't think SHTF is likely, but BTDT.

Look at the vulnerability of our grid, its age, etc. and tell me that
again. I dare ya. sigh

Look what happens to cities when one little boom-boom goes off. Boston
is one example. Overreaction to even minor terrorism is rampant, so
think what will happen when (not if) the *******s attack again. 911
will pale in comparison, I'm sure.


I used to run my motorcycle into the woods for the night and hide it
and my tent, so the landowner or kids wouldn't find and bother me.
Sometimes the first good spot was taken and I had to look further. In
such a situation I lit no fire and didn't even stand up much, and had
no need for electricity beyond the bright flashlight to blind night
intruders.

Perhaps for one night only, but...


On foot, motorcycle or canoe it's hard enough to carry the
necessities to stay warm, dry and fed, never mind a weapon, ammo and a
radio.

This is true. A top-down scenario isn't pleasant, but I'd rather be
prepared for it than caught by it with my pants down.


One such time I was working a show at a mountain resort for some
friends. They had rooms, I slept out in the forest. They didn't notice
that the windows were open behind the drapes and woke up shivering,
while I got a better night's sleep out on the pine needles in my
home-made down bag.

g


an older yellow one out into the woods and pumped up the tires of a
semi-abandoned Jeep Cherokee so we could move it. IIRC one tire took
about 10 - 15 minutes from flat to ~25 PSI.

What a powerhouse! :/

It inflated them faster than the 120V compressor we didn't have.

Ayup. I'd bet a bike pump would have kept up with it, if you added
the sweat equity.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois