Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise
the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"
to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material
unimportant. Does have to be metal... Thought about ordering shoulder bolts and
cutting the head off. May end up going this route but looking for a less
expensive and labor intensive solution since I may need as many as 50.

Could possibly live with an acorn head if it lacked wrench flats, but prefer
the cylindrical over bullet shape.
--
William

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, William Bagwell wrote:
Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise

the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"

to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material

unimportant. Does have to be metal... Thought about ordering shoulder bolts and


cutting the head off. May end up going this route but looking for a less

expensive and labor intensive solution since I may need as many as 50.



Could possibly live with an acorn head if it lacked wrench flats, but prefer

the cylindrical over bullet shape.

--

William

How about these:
http://tamperproof.com/categories/br...removable.html

Breakaway Nut/Non-Removable Security Nut Aluminum
Hex nut breaks away when nut is tightened leaving only the tamper-resistant conical portion. No special tool is required - uses standard wrench for installation.

or these:
http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/bo...FWho7AodyhgA1g

Carriage Bolts have round heads with square necks under the head to prevent the bolt from spinning as the nut is applied. Also offered with ribbed neck.

William Bagwell wrote:

Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise
the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"
to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material
unimportant. Does have to be metal... Thought about ordering shoulder bolts and
cutting the head off. May end up going this route but looking for a less
expensive and labor intensive solution since I may need as many as 50.

Could possibly live with an acorn head if it lacked wrench flats, but prefer
the cylindrical over bullet shape.
--
William

Decorative screw caps perhaps? http://www.pro-dec.com

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 12:57:11 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

How about these:
http://tamperproof.com/categories/br...removable.html

Breakaway Nut/Non-Removable Security Nut Aluminum
Hex nut breaks away when nut is tightened leaving only the tamper-resistant conical portion. No special tool is required - uses standard wrench for installation.

Looks tall enough. Not crazy about the conical shape but could live with it if
it works... Argh, have to ask for a quote.

or these:
http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/bo...FWho7AodyhgA1g

Carriage Bolts have round heads with square necks under the head to prevent the bolt from spinning as the nut is applied. Also offered with ribbed neck.

Not tall enough. Hard to explain exactly what I'm trying to do but it needs to
be tall enough to leave a 'bump' on the inside of a thick walled plastic part
so sand can stick.
--
William

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:03:15 -0500, "Pete C." wrote:

Decorative screw caps perhaps? http://www.pro-dec.com

Like the price! 7 cents each in quantities of 100. Will not work for me since
they are made of plastic.
--
William

On 12/09/13 20:37, William Bagwell wrote:
Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise
the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"
to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material
unimportant. Does have to be metal... Thought about ordering shoulder bolts and
cutting the head off. May end up going this route but looking for a less
expensive and labor intensive solution since I may need as many as 50.

Could possibly live with an acorn head if it lacked wrench flats, but prefer
the cylindrical over bullet shape.
Another poster mentioned breakaway nuts but you can get bolts in this
style also. I used a couple for a job years ago but can't remember what
or why now. The bolts were used to hold the ignition barrel and steering
column lock on a European Ford application and were IIRC 8mm and maybe
30mm long but it was a while ago. Got them from stock at the local Ford
dealer parts department so a good place to start as I would guess the
same might be used in the US as well if that's where you are.

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:47:23 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:
On 12/09/13 20:37, William Bagwell wrote:

Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise

the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"

to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material

unimportant. Does have to be metal... Thought about ordering shoulder bolts and

cutting the head off. May end up going this route but looking for a less

expensive and labor intensive solution since I may need as many as 50.



Could possibly live with an acorn head if it lacked wrench flats, but prefer

the cylindrical over bullet shape.

Another poster mentioned breakaway nuts but you can get bolts in this

style also. I used a couple for a job years ago but can't remember what

or why now. The bolts were used to hold the ignition barrel and steering

column lock on a European Ford application and were IIRC 8mm and maybe

30mm long but it was a while ago. Got them from stock at the local Ford

dealer parts department so a good place to start as I would guess the

same might be used in the US as well if that's where you are.

Y'know, I've seen such breakaway bolts in a locksmithing catalog (which I can't put my hands on now). You might check with a local locksmith for some advice.

Also, without knowing exactly what it is you're trying to do or how many you need, I'll just take a shot: Would it be possible to just take some cap screws and fill in the sockets with solder? Shouldn't be a big deal at all, unless you need thousands.

"William Bagwell" wrote in message
...
Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other
wise
the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly
5/16"
to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade,
material
unimportant. Does have to be metal... Thought about ordering shoulder
bolts and
cutting the head off. May end up going this route but looking for a less
expensive and labor intensive solution since I may need as many as 50.

Could possibly live with an acorn head if it lacked wrench flats, but
prefer
the cylindrical over bullet shape.
--
William

Use a round standoff on a threaded rod with the end of the rod flush with
the top of the standoff.

OR use one these (they are expensive):
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/rou...rch&sst=subset

OR fill the head of a socket screw with brazing material

Or use a chrome cap plug like these:
http://www.cyclesolutions.net/product/sku-BBP-3-101

OR use a knurled thumb screw

However without disclosing exactly what you are doing, you probably will not
get a really optimal answer.

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 14:41:02 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

Y'know, I've seen such breakaway bolts in a locksmithing catalog (which I can't put my hands on now). You might check with a local locksmith for some advice.

Also, without knowing exactly what it is you're trying to do or how many you need, I'll just take a shot: Would it be possible to just take some cap screws and fill in the sockets with solder? Shouldn't be a big deal at all, unless you need thousands.

Actually did almost that a few years ago. Only needed four total for
that application since it was to control shrinkage in one particular
area of the finished part. Used TIG and then smoothed and rounded the
weld as I was removing the knurl and putting a degree or two of taper.
No longer have ready access to TIG or oxy-acetylene, doubt stick or flux
core would work very well. Plus I may need as many as 50.

What I am trying to this time is add places for sand to pause long
enough to stick to the hot plastic. Rotational molding uses powered
plastic rather than the pellets used in injection (and blow) molding.
Normally no sand is used, but since I'm making bat house shells and want
the inside wall to be rough like a cave wall... Since sand does not melt
it tumbles around until the very last before sticking.

Works great in corners, narrow areas and around bumps or projections.
However, large flat areas of the mold do not allow time for the sand to
stick since the mold is constantly turning.

A bit more back ground and a few pictures near the bottom of this page
if anyone is interested.
http://mysecondbathouse.com/sand-texture/
--
William

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 14:47:56 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:

Use a round standoff on a threaded rod with the end of the rod flush with
the top of the standoff.

Have seen small electronics style standoffs in round. Never seen larger
ones in anything other than hex. Will do a bit of searching...

OR use one these (they are expensive):
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/rou...rch&sst=subset

Ouch! They start at $10 each for too small.

OR fill the head of a socket screw with brazing material

See my reply to rangerssuck above.

Or use a chrome cap plug like these:
http://www.cyclesolutions.net/product/sku-BBP-3-101

Interesting! This makes the third or forth suggestion of something I had
no idea even existed. Doubt they would be tight enough to not stay in
the first part molded.

OR use a knurled thumb screw

Be great if I could find some cheep enough. Trivial to sand the knurl
off.

However without disclosing exactly what you are doing, you probably will not
get a really optimal answer.

Why not plain hex heads? I don't see where they need to be perfectly round;
the sand thickness may be uneven but who's to say what the bats will prefer?
:-) Oh, also look at 12-point head bolts, not round but rounder than hex
heads and no hole.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"William Bagwell" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 14:41:02 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

Y'know, I've seen such breakaway bolts in a locksmithing catalog (which I
can't put my hands on now). You might check with a local locksmith for some
advice.

Also, without knowing exactly what it is you're trying to do or how many
you need, I'll just take a shot: Would it be possible to just take some cap
screws and fill in the sockets with solder? Shouldn't be a big deal at all,
unless you need thousands.

Actually did almost that a few years ago. Only needed four total for
that application since it was to control shrinkage in one particular
area of the finished part. Used TIG and then smoothed and rounded the
weld as I was removing the knurl and putting a degree or two of taper.
No longer have ready access to TIG or oxy-acetylene, doubt stick or flux
core would work very well. Plus I may need as many as 50.

What I am trying to this time is add places for sand to pause long
enough to stick to the hot plastic. Rotational molding uses powered
plastic rather than the pellets used in injection (and blow) molding.
Normally no sand is used, but since I'm making bat house shells and want
the inside wall to be rough like a cave wall... Since sand does not melt
it tumbles around until the very last before sticking.

Works great in corners, narrow areas and around bumps or projections.
However, large flat areas of the mold do not allow time for the sand to
stick since the mold is constantly turning.

A bit more back ground and a few pictures near the bottom of this page
if anyone is interested.
http://mysecondbathouse.com/sand-texture/
--
William

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:34:19 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Why not plain hex heads? I don't see where they need to be perfectly round;
the sand thickness may be uneven but who's to say what the bats will prefer?
:-) Oh, also look at 12-point head bolts, not round but rounder than hex
heads and no hole.

Will look for 12 point heads since I vaguely remember seeing them in a
taller high head version. Bats as you have noted would not care if I
electro formed turds and bolted them to the mold. Pesky humans however
(ones with money) want things that look beautiful and have no obvious "I
know how they did that" features.

And yes, most of us on this newsgroup are not typical and spot 'how they
done that's' frequently. I know I do...
--
William

Not sure what size head you need, but can you mold in a rubber bumper with
threaded stud on the backside? Something like
http://www.alliance-express.com/threaded-insert-bumper, or browse their
other products and maybe something will click.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"William Bagwell" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:34:19 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Why not plain hex heads? I don't see where they need to be perfectly
round;
the sand thickness may be uneven but who's to say what the bats will
prefer?
:-) Oh, also look at 12-point head bolts, not round but rounder than hex
heads and no hole.

Will look for 12 point heads since I vaguely remember seeing them in a
taller high head version. Bats as you have noted would not care if I
electro formed turds and bolted them to the mold. Pesky humans however
(ones with money) want things that look beautiful and have no obvious "I
know how they did that" features.

And yes, most of us on this newsgroup are not typical and spot 'how they
done that's' frequently. I know I do...
--
William

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, William Bagwell wrote:
Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise

the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"

to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material

unimportant. Does have to be metal... T


William

What about just chucking up hex headed bolts in your lathe and turning the head to be round? No lathe, then clamp a bit to the drill press table and use your drill press as a lathe.

Dan

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, William Bagwell wrote:
Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise

the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"

to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material

unimportant. Does have to be metal... T


William

What about just chucking up hex headed bolts in your lathe and turning the head to be round? No lathe, then clamp a bit to the drill press table and use your drill press as a lathe.

Dan

Or, if a drill press but no lathe bits, use a file. No drill press,
clamp a drill motor in a vise, and use a file.

Real hex-head cap screws are going to be a little hard, but a file
will do it on those small screws. If they're ordinary hardware-store
screws, they'll file easily.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, William Bagwell wrote:
Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise

the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"

to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material

unimportant. Does have to be metal... Thought about ordering shoulder bolts and

cutting the head off. May end up going this route but looking for a less

expensive and labor intensive solution since I may need as many as 50.



Could possibly live with an acorn head if it lacked wrench flats, but prefer

the cylindrical over bullet shape.

--

William

If you can thread the hole it goes into you could thread some rod, stop and leave part unthreaded (the 'head'), screw it until the unthreaded portion jams to hold it in place.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:41:27 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:37:13 PM UTC-4, William Bagwell wrote:
Yes, socket*less* cap screws. As in no hole to insert a hex key, but other wise

the same shape and height as the head on a socket head cap screw. Roughly 5/16"

to 3/8" X short, standard or metric, course or fine thread, grade, material

unimportant. Does have to be metal... T


William

What about just chucking up hex headed bolts in your lathe and turning the head to be round? No lathe, then clamp a bit to the drill press table and use your drill press as a lathe.

Dan

Or, if a drill press but no lathe bits, use a file. No drill press,
clamp a drill motor in a vise, and use a file.

Real hex-head cap screws are going to be a little hard, but a file
will do it on those small screws. If they're ordinary hardware-store
screws, they'll file easily.

One more thing: If you're going to chuck the threaded end of a screw
in a drill (or lathe) chuck, wrap wire around the threads to protect
them. Ordinary copper or steel wire will do.

--
Ed Huntress

On Friday, September 13, 2013 9:43:37 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:




One more thing: If you're going to chuck the threaded end of a screw

in a drill (or lathe) chuck, wrap wire around the threads to protect

them. Ordinary copper or steel wire will do.

Ed Huntress

Good idea, I will have to try that. I usually just thread on three or four nuts and tighten at least two against each other.

Dan

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:18:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, September 13, 2013 9:43:37 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:




One more thing: If you're going to chuck the threaded end of a screw

in a drill (or lathe) chuck, wrap wire around the threads to protect

them. Ordinary copper or steel wire will do.

Ed Huntress

Good idea, I will have to try that. I usually just thread on three or four nuts and tighten at least two against each other.

Dan

It's one of the few very good machining ideas I've ever had, so I
promote it as often as I can. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:22:27 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Not sure what size head you need, but can you mold in a rubber bumper with
threaded stud on the backside? Something like
http://www.alliance-express.com/threaded-insert-bumper, or browse their
other products and maybe something will click.

Ah, and the ones that come with many toggle clamps are even closer to
size and shape I'm looking for. Rubber however would not last long and
if Teflon or some other high temp plastic was used it would leave a hole
all the way through the part. Teflon is often used as an insulator to
keep an area that will be cut away from forming. On a large part it can
save several pounds off the shot weight. Save big buck$ over time...
--
William

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

What about just chucking up hex headed bolts in your lathe and turning the head to be round?

Too short and high head bolts like the shoulder bolts I mentioned up
thread are expensive and harder to find.

No lathe, then clamp a bit to the drill press table and use your drill press as a lathe.

Yup, have several hand 'lathes' which don't involve kneeling down like
the drill press 'lathe'. 4" angle grinder with a sanding disk beats a
file almost every time.
--
William

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:43:37 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

One more thing: If you're going to chuck the threaded end of a screw
in a drill (or lathe) chuck, wrap wire around the threads to protect
them. Ordinary copper or steel wire will do.

Ah, can see how that would work! Especially on a real lathe taking heavy
cuts.
--
William

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:43:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

If you can thread the hole it goes into you could thread some rod, stop and leave part unthreaded (the 'head'), screw it until the unthreaded portion jams to hold it in place.

This is probably going to be the winning idea. Had avoided in my mind
anything involving threaded holes since these are going in 1/4" thick
aluminum. Can easily make a few for a test run and back them up with an
external nut.

Also make them from cheap stock bolts.

Thanks all! Will post an update in a month or two after my mold runs
again.
--
William