On Monday, September 2, 2013 1:07:42 PM UTC-7, Larry Jaques wrote:

It reminds me of the warranty card from McD D:

Does Larry Jackass ever come up with anything that's remotely original?

How many time has this "warranty card" been posted here and to alt.machines.cnc over the years?

On Monday, September 2, 2013 3:51:23 PM UTC-7, George Plimpton wrote:
On 9/2/2013 3:39 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:58:10 -0700, Gunner Asch

wrote:



On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:22:50 -0700, Hiram Johnson thetruth@thetruth

wrote:





Im running out of steam, desire, and ability to jump into another one.



Why would you want to jump out of this one, gummer?



"Hummmm? I get $75 an hour, .55 cents a mile out and back, and

$25/hr travel time."

gummer arsch - 08/31/2013, 9:48PM PDT



$75 an hour is $75,000 a year even if you only work 20 hours a week,



ayup..it sure is. And during the Shining Times...I was knocking off

about that much money.



Liar. You never made much, as evidenced by your inability to pay the

smallest bills for the last 30 ****ing years.



Insurance

(medical) was a significant percentage of that $75k,



Let's see some receipts for any health insurance payments.



paid off the wifes medical bills



You've already said that her bills were freebies and that you were

trying to get her on SS. Do you need the link?



Course I had a boy who had 3 major surgeries

before he was 15..and that ate a lot of money as well with his

continual medical needs



... that you put onto the taxpayers like all the others.



My sons long term addiction to meth cost me a ****load of money



Stop blaming your spawn.



gummer was furnishing the meth to his son. That's a fact.







He is married and has three kids..but he

is never going to be able to work.and SS pays him $831 a month.



AKA breadwinner of the household.



Ooooohhh...

Anytime the Pimple claims something is fact you can count on it being exactly the opposite.

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400,
wrote:

snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

George Plimpton wrote:


Under old economic theories, this was not a problem. The work week
would just keep getting shorter.

Wrong. People would do things that formerly weren't done.


Do you mean like sit on a computer keyboard all day
long spewing nonsense?

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:28:40 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400,
wrote:

snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

I know many who started off with the proverbial silver spoon and ended
up without a pot to pee in

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 11:09:53 AM UTC-4, Siri Cruise wrote:



And what does it pay?


What a stupid response. It depends on which undone work is pursued and the ability and talent of the person. As I heard it, the klixon was invented by a maintenance man and he made millions from it.


http://www.softslide.us/volumes/v2/t3/history/al.htm

Dan

On 2013-09-03, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:28:40 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400,
wrote:

snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

I know many who started off with the proverbial silver spoon and ended
up without a pot to pee in

There is more than one gets from parents, than just the money.

All money that I earned is mine, but,I could not get to where I am,
without their influence etc.

i

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:33:47 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:28:40 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400,
wrote:

snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

I know many who started off with the proverbial silver spoon and ended
up without a pot to pee in

Oh hell yes. The number of those is countless.


"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On 9/3/2013 12:42 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:33:47 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:28:40 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400,
wrote:

snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

I know many who started off with the proverbial silver spoon and ended
up without a pot to pee in

Oh hell yes. The number of those is countless.

You're one. You grew up with affluent left-wing parents who allegedly
marched with Dr. King. *Now* look at you!

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:42:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:33:47 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:28:40 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400,
wrote:

snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

I know many who started off with the proverbial silver spoon and ended
up without a pot to pee in

Oh hell yes. The number of those is countless.


"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)
You'd be surprised how many. They didn't have to work for it, they
didn't know the value of it, and the partied it all away, snorted it
up their nose, or otherwise wasted it ALL.

The third generation of family businesses usually fails.

Look at Millard Air. Hardworking grandfather and father, and the
kid,(look up Devin Millard) richer than all getout when his dad dies,
is now likely to spend the rest of his lousy life in jail - over a
pickup truck. The business is gone.

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 13:49:24 -0500, Ignoramus30897
wrote:

On 2013-09-03, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:28:40 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400,
wrote:

snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

I know many who started off with the proverbial silver spoon and ended
up without a pot to pee in

There is more than one gets from parents, than just the money.

All money that I earned is mine, but,I could not get to where I am,
without their influence etc.

Ditto. My parents encouraged me to read and nurtured my innate
curiosity, while passing on their excellent sense of right and wrong.
I'm a much better person for it and I thank them for it repeatedly.

I did have some financial help through the years ($500 here, $1k
there) and they let me buy their rental house from them at zero
interest.

--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Gunner Asch on Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:42:56 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:33:47 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:28:40 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:52:17 -0400, wrote:
snip
The universal plan to financial success:
Rule #1 - Marry the right woman the FIRST TIME.
snip

picking the right parents is also very helpful...

I know many who started off with the proverbial silver spoon and ended
up without a pot to pee in

Oh hell yes. The number of those is countless.

"Dirt to dirt in three generations."

Although if Grandfather made sufficient money, it may take more
than one generation to **** it away.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

"Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-S...ature=youtu.be
================

Some "anecdotal evidence" of the decline/reduction in the US
middle class and its economic impact.

http://news.yahoo.com/stuck-middle-sears-110000767.html

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

"Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-S...ature=youtu.be

=======================

And yet more indication of how falling wages and the
resulting elimination of the middle class is leading to a
socio-economic "death spiral."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...3a8_story.html

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Gunner

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.

i

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:28:57 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.

i

You just found this out? The Underground Economy has been building
for decades and has broadened widely since 2007 and the start of the
Great Depression 2.

Gunner

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:28:57 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.

i

You just found this out? The Underground Economy has been building
for decades and has broadened widely since 2007 and the start of the
Great Depression 2.

I was not thinking much about that before, when I was a computer guy
only.

i

"Ignoramus32615" wrote in message
...
On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.


Tax cheats are leeches, pure and simple.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 19:48:13 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/business...destiny-w.html
snip
The recent release of a new economic mobility study that
was featured on PBS NewsHour brings much-needed evidence on
the difficulty of getting ahead in the United States.

The study is important not just because it suggests how
limited opportunities for mobility are in the United States.
What's new is the finding that the neighborhoods in which
children grow up affect their opportunities for mobility.
The study suggests that poor children who grow up in
communities like Detroit that don't provide income
supplements for poor working families are less likely to
escape poverty than those who grow up in places like San
Jose in which relatively generous supplements are provided.
It's difficult to get ahead, in other words, if one is so
unlucky as to be born into an ungenerous community.
snip
snip

I have received several emails on this. Be reminded that it
was the relative size or fraction of the urban areas
population that was middle class, not the absolute size of
the middle class population or the urban area that seemed to
have an effect.

Grandma had two adages which encapsulated these findings:

(1) Birds of a feather flock together; and
(2) You become like the people you associate with.

If a higher fraction of the areas population, where you
live, is middle class, the more likely you are to associate
with and absorb middle class values and social skills from
your peers, and the more likely it is your parents are at
least lower middle class if you are living in a middle class
enclave.

Technically this appears to be a predictive and not a causal
factor.

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 15:43:41 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:28:57 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.

i

You just found this out? The Underground Economy has been building
for decades and has broadened widely since 2007 and the start of the
Great Depression 2.

I was not thinking much about that before, when I was a computer guy
only.

i

Want to see how bad the economy is?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...052251109.html

http://longisland.craigslist.org/zip/4050422633.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f.../photos/albums


"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

I believe that statement is somewhat misleading.

I've lived in Thailand, Singapore and Indonesia during various periods
during their development and while there is a certain amount of barter
it isn't carried out in an "underground" or "evasion of official"
sense. If you are a rice growing farmer and have a neighbor who raises
chickens it only makes sense to trade a kilo of rice for a dozen eggs
rather then go the long way round and sell your rice to get cash and
pay the cash to your neighbor for his eggs which will provide him with
sufficient money to buy some rice. But you can be sure that the value
of rice and eggs is established by the prices in the open market.

I might also comment that this barter system is not really increasing,
other then as a side effect of an increase in population.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 15:43:41 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:28:57 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.

i

You just found this out? The Underground Economy has been building
for decades and has broadened widely since 2007 and the start of the
Great Depression 2.

I was not thinking much about that before, when I was a computer guy
only.

i

Want to see how bad the economy is?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...052251109.html

http://longisland.craigslist.org/zip/4050422633.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f.../photos/albums

These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...

i

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 22:52:02 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 15:43:41 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:28:57 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.

i

You just found this out? The Underground Economy has been building
for decades and has broadened widely since 2007 and the start of the
Great Depression 2.

I was not thinking much about that before, when I was a computer guy
only.

i

Want to see how bad the economy is?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...052251109.html

http://longisland.craigslist.org/zip/4050422633.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f.../photos/albums

These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...

i

Really? They all appear to be in working condition. Do they need
some TLC? probably.

I bought this a few weeks ago for $200

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/FJ1

No issues with the boat other than it needed to be polished out. Cost
$5 for the polish and 30 minutes to do it. The included
trailer..that cost $45 for bearings and caps and grease seals. But
the boat was quite nice. Sails very nicely.

As for the first 2 boats listed...what was wrong with them? Do you
know about either of them? Or are you simply guessing?

A buddy of mine bought for $1000..a 42' Morgan. He bought it from a
widow and after having it inspected and outfitted...has
curcumnavigated the planet over a 5 yr period of time. Outfitting
included a new freshwater maker, copious amounts of food, a hidden
weapons locker and a bigger water tank. And thats just about it

Are there boats on that Yahoo group that need a lot of work? Yes there
are. Are there boats on that Yahoo group that need the furniture
polished only? Yes there are. Id snag the first one..but I dont have
the money for monthly slip fees and will have to stay with a
trailerable swing keel boat. Im looking at a Venture 17 along with a
Contender...both for a grand total of $400 and include (1) trailer.
The Venture 17 needs 1.5 sheets of 3/8 marine plywood to refit the
cabin..and the Contender needs (1) sail ($125)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ItqizpBHk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjLlR5K_6qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR4aGQ7L1kY

Venture 17 cabin restoration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQt6yZYtDmM

The sister to my current Ensenada 20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCwV4yHPqow

FJ sailing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5G5tTNIJkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CizUua-xjzc

Like my AMF Force 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7yXpy5K10Q

Laser (almost a Force 5)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7EktV5FYGk

And of course..we have a worlds record....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2boayPZ3GbE

And another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP985PjMGts

And of course..the Sail Rocket...65.45 knots in 25 knots of wind..
74.55 mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZVIj5TUSKE






"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 22:50:14 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 22:52:02 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 15:43:41 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:28:57 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 09:39:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:58:28 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
snip

Although the above has been dismissed by several posters,
one of the characteristics of a third world economy is the
large unofficial or underground economy and increasing use
of barter.

The following article seems to indicate a large and growing
unofficial or underground economy in the US.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-e...175850505.html

Interesting. Thanks!

Only recently, I realized that there are very many people who are
working "unofficially". They are paid in cash and transact in
cash. Examples are small time buyers and sellers, purveyors of scrap
metal, household services like lawn and babysitting etc.

The reasons why they do it are as follows:

1) Illegal aliens (who need to eat like everyone else)
2) People on unemployment who supplement their unemployment
money with cash income
3) People on disability
4) Tax cheats

Even though those people choose to stay "under the radar", they,
for the most part, contribute to the economy and our well being.

i

You just found this out? The Underground Economy has been building
for decades and has broadened widely since 2007 and the start of the
Great Depression 2.

I was not thinking much about that before, when I was a computer guy
only.

i

Want to see how bad the economy is?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...052251109.html

http://longisland.craigslist.org/zip/4050422633.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f.../photos/albums

These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...

i

Really? They all appear to be in working condition. Do they need
some TLC? probably.

I bought this a few weeks ago for $200

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/FJ1

Yes, that is about a $200 boat. Is there a sail with it? Have you
priced a new sail for it yet :-)

No issues with the boat other than it needed to be polished out. Cost
$5 for the polish and 30 minutes to do it. The included
trailer..that cost $45 for bearings and caps and grease seals. But
the boat was quite nice. Sails very nicely.

As for the first 2 boats listed...what was wrong with them? Do you
know about either of them? Or are you simply guessing?

A buddy of mine bought for $1000..a 42' Morgan. He bought it from a
widow and after having it inspected and outfitted...has
curcumnavigated the planet over a 5 yr period of time. Outfitting
included a new freshwater maker, copious amounts of food, a hidden
weapons locker and a bigger water tank. And thats just about it

A thousand for a 42' Morgan isn't a good deal it is outright theft.

But I'd guess that he spent a bit more before he set out across the
briny. Most people will replace a bunch of rigging, maybe some new
sails, probably an extra anchor or two....

I wonder whether your mate knew that the gun in the hidden locker
would rate the death sentence in places like Singapore or Malaysia?

Are there boats on that Yahoo group that need a lot of work? Yes there
are. Are there boats on that Yahoo group that need the furniture
polished only? Yes there are. Id snag the first one..but I dont have
the money for monthly slip fees and will have to stay with a
trailerable swing keel boat. Im looking at a Venture 17 along with a
Contender...both for a grand total of $400 and include (1) trailer.
The Venture 17 needs 1.5 sheets of 3/8 marine plywood to refit the
cabin..and the Contender needs (1) sail ($125)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ItqizpBHk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjLlR5K_6qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR4aGQ7L1kY

Venture 17 cabin restoration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQt6yZYtDmM

The sister to my current Ensenada 20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCwV4yHPqow

FJ sailing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5G5tTNIJkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CizUua-xjzc

Like my AMF Force 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7yXpy5K10Q

Laser (almost a Force 5)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7EktV5FYGk

And of course..we have a worlds record....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2boayPZ3GbE

And another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP985PjMGts

And of course..the Sail Rocket...65.45 knots in 25 knots of wind..
74.55 mph

http://www.youtube.cthe cardinal number that is the sum of one and one and oneom/watch?v=sZVIj5TUSKE






"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:



These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...



i

All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.

Dan

On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:



These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...



i

All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.

Dan

I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...


i

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 22:50:14 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 22:52:02 -0500, Ignoramus32615
wrote:

On 2013-09-07, Gunner Asch wrote:
You just found this out? The Underground Economy has been building
for decades and has broadened widely since 2007 and the start of the
Great Depression 2.

I was not thinking much about that before, when I was a computer guy
only.

i

Want to see how bad the economy is?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...052251109.html

http://longisland.craigslist.org/zip/4050422633.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f.../photos/albums

These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...

Really? They all appear to be in working condition. Do they need
some TLC? probably.

The Lon Gisland text says "Free 20' Marieholm sailboat! The boat is in
very good condition and handles well - especially in rough weather."

No doubt Ig was thinking about most free stuff in general and probably
didn't follow the ads.

BTW, Ig, what's the price of 10x FREE? g

(Yeah, I know. Sometimes it _does_ cost more to do a refurb than to
buy brand new. DAMHIKT)


--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 04:58:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:



These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...



i

All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.

Dan

Some...some boats are a hole in the water you throw money into.
But...Sailboats tend to cost less in many instances and the smaller
ones dont cost much at all.

Gunner

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:



These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...



i

All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.

Dan

I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...


i

Sail or power?


"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On 2013-09-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:
On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:
These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...
All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.
I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...
Sail or power?

Power. I owned a power boat before, 21 foot.

i

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

"Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-S...ature=youtu.be

================================

The good news is that "trickle down" works.

The bad news is it ain't money.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf...iver_defau lt

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:



These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...



i

All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.

Dan

I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...

Have you guys forgotten the definition of "boat"?

"A hole in the water into which you throw all your money."


--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 11:08:09 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:
On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:
These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...
All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.
I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...
Sail or power?

Power. I owned a power boat before, 21 foot.

Cigarette boat (fun) or cabin cruiser (darned family tub)? g

--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

On 2013-09-08, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 11:08:09 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:
On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:
These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...
All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.
I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...
Sail or power?

Power. I owned a power boat before, 21 foot.

Cigarette boat (fun) or cabin cruiser (darned family tub)? g


it looked like this: http://media.channelblade.com/boat_g...gi15725839.jpg

On 2013-09-08, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 11:08:09 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:
On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:
These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...
All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.
I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...
Sail or power?

Power. I owned a power boat before, 21 foot.

Cigarette boat (fun) or cabin cruiser (darned family tub)? g


In addition to the previous picture...

It was a very fun boat. Even though it was very heavy, it could go 35
MPH in water, it had a nice Mercruiser 302 inboard/outboard etc.

i

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 9:52:09 AM UTC-7, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

wrote:



"Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-S...ature=youtu.be



================================



The good news is that "trickle down" works.



The bad news is it ain't money.



http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf...iver_defau lt


"One out of five children in this country are living in poverty and more than 46 million Americans are poor." ... Bernie Sanders Senator from Vermont.

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 11:08:09 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:
On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:
These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...
All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.
I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...
Sail or power?

Power. I owned a power boat before, 21 foot.

i

I rather think you would enjoy learning to sail. Ever been on a
sailboat before? Its very mental and far far from "brute force"

Gunner

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 16:13:12 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 11:08:09 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:

On 2013-09-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 07:58:17 -0500, Ignoramus3628
wrote:
On 2013-09-08, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2013 11:52:02 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus32615 wrote:
These boats will cost you 10x to get them to working condition...
All boats seem to require more money to maintain them than the original purchase price.
I am actually thinking about buying a used boat...
Sail or power?

Power. I owned a power boat before, 21 foot.

Cigarette boat (fun) or cabin cruiser (darned family tub)? g


it looked like this: http://media.channelblade.com/boat_g...gi15725839.jpg

Nice boat..but that indeed...is a hole in the water you throw money
into.

http://www.sailchicago.org/Learn-To-Sail

http://csa-sailing.org/Welcome_to_CSA.html

http://www.cityoflakeforest.com/park...ation/sailing/

I dont have a clue where you live..but sailing is quite popular in
your state..and since you live on the Great Lakes...or close to
them...

You can purchase a sailboat for less than $1000 that will allow you
and your family to sail the entire Great Lakes on less than 1 tank of
gas. Or you can buy a small one and take the kids out for an
afternoon or day on a small local lake and actually teach them the art
of sailing and all can have a good time.

If you have any interest..Id be happy to find you a group of boats in
your area you can go look at ..for very little money.

I would strongly..strongly suggest taking one of the sailing
classes..most are free or very minimal cost and you can bring the
entire family.

One that just showed up..

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/boa/4054173113.html

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/boa/4045524249.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f...bums/369314739

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f...ums/1565402515

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/f...sations/topics

Start off small with a 20' trailer sailer for free or very little
money and learn. You live in a state where there is great water to
play on.

I rather suspect you will enjoy the hell out of it.

Gunner


Gunner

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)