So I promised to post some of our challenges here...

We do simple drilling in most cases. No CNC, no feed calculations, just
an air stroked automatic drilling machine with a supplemental hydraulic
feed control that is manually adjustable. You look at the chips and
determine whether you need to go faster or slower, etc. RPM rates are
usually conservative but slightly adjustable. It's a purpose built
machine for most people.

So... I've got a return customer who loves our product. We were
initially nervous about selling to this guy because of the difficulty of
this projects, but it turns out he implemented drill bushings and all
other types of stabilization that made it a huge success. ...And we
were transparent with him about our concerns from day #1 but he admitted
that after many calls, we were the people who would actually work with
him and provide a custom solution for an affordable cost.

Anyhow... He calls me a few days ago with a new challenge. He needs to
drill six holes in one stroke. 7/8" diameter in ductile cast iron.
Nothing fancy, just needs thru holes for mounting a flange-type part.

Problem is, the largest machine I have is a 3 HP unit (sometimes 5 HP on
special jobs). It can only create 1000 lbs. of thrust at 100 psi shop
air and we really don't like pushing it with more air because the
components inside have not been tested under heaver loads in a
production atmosphere. We've run as high as 1600 lbs. of thrust for a
number of tests, but tests are different than real life, day in and day
out use...

So, after the standard "Well, you know we need to really think this
through because it's once again a uniquely challenging application."
statements, we dig into it.

His cycle time isn't critical but being able to press a button and walk
away is.

We came up with a staggered length head design that we believe will work
for him. In essence, the machine will only see the load of two holes at
a time as the "bits" will pass thru the part before the next two engage,
etc.

We are likely quoting a 6" stroke machine with a full 6" of hydraulic
feed control. Air stroked at 120 PSI shop air. Drill bushings. Guide
rods to further stabilize the heavy multispindle drill head (maybe
spring loaded to decrease some of the weight load too). ER40 style
spindles and collets - maybe ASA. 3 HP with a gear reduction system
running around 375 RPM (conservative). Pneumatic stroke controller (FRL,
start button, tubes, fittings, starter bottle of oil - Press the button
and the drill will stroke forward to a limit switch and then retract and
wait for the button to be pressed again.) 3 phase motor - panel and
additional controls by the customer.

If he needed a faster cycle time, we would have face mounted the
multiple spindle head onto a motor and gear reducer combination and
suggested he have someone build him a hydraulic slide mechanism...
We've done that many times successfully but prefer to avoid making the
slides themselves. Those big slide jobs excite me as I really enjoy the
larger drilling devices. ...But they are rare these days.

....Still working on the details with this customer, but it is just
another example of what gets placed in front of us on a daily basis.
Cost is still reasonable since there isn't much customization going on
here, just some creativity...

Any random comments, questions or critiques?




--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

As a quick side note, you guys have inspired me to post some of these on
the web site... If you enjoy them, I presume site surfers will as well!

This one got stuck he
http://www.drill-hq.com/2013/08/a-ty...ation-example/




--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 07:57:07 -0400, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

So I promised to post some of our challenges here...

We do simple drilling in most cases. No CNC, no feed calculations, just
an air stroked automatic drilling machine with a supplemental hydraulic
feed control that is manually adjustable. You look at the chips and
determine whether you need to go faster or slower, etc. RPM rates are
usually conservative but slightly adjustable. It's a purpose built
machine for most people.

So... I've got a return customer who loves our product. We were
initially nervous about selling to this guy because of the difficulty of
this projects, but it turns out he implemented drill bushings and all
other types of stabilization that made it a huge success. ...And we
were transparent with him about our concerns from day #1 but he admitted
that after many calls, we were the people who would actually work with
him and provide a custom solution for an affordable cost.

Anyhow... He calls me a few days ago with a new challenge. He needs to
drill six holes in one stroke. 7/8" diameter in ductile cast iron.
Nothing fancy, just needs thru holes for mounting a flange-type part.

Problem is, the largest machine I have is a 3 HP unit (sometimes 5 HP on
special jobs). It can only create 1000 lbs. of thrust at 100 psi shop
air and we really don't like pushing it with more air because the
components inside have not been tested under heaver loads in a
production atmosphere. We've run as high as 1600 lbs. of thrust for a
number of tests, but tests are different than real life, day in and day
out use...

So, after the standard "Well, you know we need to really think this
through because it's once again a uniquely challenging application."
statements, we dig into it.

His cycle time isn't critical but being able to press a button and walk
away is.

We came up with a staggered length head design that we believe will work
for him. In essence, the machine will only see the load of two holes at
a time as the "bits" will pass thru the part before the next two engage,
etc.

We are likely quoting a 6" stroke machine with a full 6" of hydraulic
feed control. Air stroked at 120 PSI shop air. Drill bushings. Guide
rods to further stabilize the heavy multispindle drill head (maybe
spring loaded to decrease some of the weight load too). ER40 style
spindles and collets - maybe ASA. 3 HP with a gear reduction system
running around 375 RPM (conservative). Pneumatic stroke controller (FRL,
start button, tubes, fittings, starter bottle of oil - Press the button
and the drill will stroke forward to a limit switch and then retract and
wait for the button to be pressed again.) 3 phase motor - panel and
additional controls by the customer.

If he needed a faster cycle time, we would have face mounted the
multiple spindle head onto a motor and gear reducer combination and
suggested he have someone build him a hydraulic slide mechanism...
We've done that many times successfully but prefer to avoid making the
slides themselves. Those big slide jobs excite me as I really enjoy the
larger drilling devices. ...But they are rare these days.

...Still working on the details with this customer, but it is just
another example of what gets placed in front of us on a daily basis.
Cost is still reasonable since there isn't much customization going on
here, just some creativity...

Any random comments, questions or critiques?

It sounds like a good way to use the available thrust and horsepower,
but I'd like to know where the guide rods are -- what it is they
guide.

--
Ed Huntress

On 8/20/2013 8:52 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

It sounds like a good way to use the available thrust and horsepower,
but I'd like to know where the guide rods are -- what it is they
guide.


The guide rods will likely be outboard of the head's standard housing.
They will simply solidify the set-up a bit. Because the customer is
using drill bushings, we don't need four and can get away with using
only two. They are mostly there as cheap insurance and to offer a way
to mount balancing springs if desired / needed.

The pneumatic stroking machine itself has two guide rods already so as I
said, it's just cheap, removable insurance.

In a situation like this, I'll likely anchor them to the head with set
screws for easy removal. They will then extend back and away from the
part to guide rod blocks on the customer's dedicated fixture.

Here is a four spindle set-up (for tapping - slightly different) that
uses the same basic idea:

http://www.drill-hq.com/wp-content/u...5/P9031424.jpg

In that photo, the springs are actually installed incorrectly by a shop
guy. I told him I wanted a photo for the files and he assembled it
quickly just for the photo. I snapped this just before it was
corrected, set-up to look a bit more "pretty" and properly photographed,
etc.

Here is a photo of a rather large ER32 style head that went on a huge
drill press at a foundry. The guide rods in this case where larger
diameter, anchored elsewhere and in a pattern the customer specified.

http://www.drill-hq.com/?attachment_id=2334

The way I look at these types of options is this... You are spending
lots of time and money on a dedicated fixture, industrial electrician
and EPanel, etc. My stuff is relatively affordable and an option like
this is extremely affordable in the big picture. If it adds a few more
percentage points to the "likelihood of total and joyful success" rate,
then I'll offer it.

The worst possible thing I could ever do to someone is tell them to wait
4-5 weeks for a custom machine that is needed in 5-6 weeks - and then
deliver a non-working machine. That would put me out of business overnight.

I tell folks, "I would like to visit your town on vacation, not to fix
my drill. If I sell this, it will work."


--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:23:03 -0400, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

On 8/20/2013 8:52 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

It sounds like a good way to use the available thrust and horsepower,
but I'd like to know where the guide rods are -- what it is they
guide.


The guide rods will likely be outboard of the head's standard housing.
They will simply solidify the set-up a bit. Because the customer is
using drill bushings, we don't need four and can get away with using
only two. They are mostly there as cheap insurance and to offer a way
to mount balancing springs if desired / needed.

The pneumatic stroking machine itself has two guide rods already so as I
said, it's just cheap, removable insurance.

In a situation like this, I'll likely anchor them to the head with set
screws for easy removal. They will then extend back and away from the
part to guide rod blocks on the customer's dedicated fixture.

Here is a four spindle set-up (for tapping - slightly different) that
uses the same basic idea:

http://www.drill-hq.com/wp-content/u...5/P9031424.jpg

In that photo, the springs are actually installed incorrectly by a shop
guy. I told him I wanted a photo for the files and he assembled it
quickly just for the photo. I snapped this just before it was
corrected, set-up to look a bit more "pretty" and properly photographed,
etc.

Here is a photo of a rather large ER32 style head that went on a huge
drill press at a foundry. The guide rods in this case where larger
diameter, anchored elsewhere and in a pattern the customer specified.

http://www.drill-hq.com/?attachment_id=2334

The way I look at these types of options is this... You are spending
lots of time and money on a dedicated fixture, industrial electrician
and EPanel, etc. My stuff is relatively affordable and an option like
this is extremely affordable in the big picture. If it adds a few more
percentage points to the "likelihood of total and joyful success" rate,
then I'll offer it.

The worst possible thing I could ever do to someone is tell them to wait
4-5 weeks for a custom machine that is needed in 5-6 weeks - and then
deliver a non-working machine. That would put me out of business overnight.

I tell folks, "I would like to visit your town on vacation, not to fix
my drill. If I sell this, it will work."

Aha. I gather that, in regard to the present job, the idea is just to
assure the bits will enter the bushings without clanging against the
top openings.

Is the customer planning to use a conventional drill jig?

--
Ed Huntress

On 8/20/2013 9:38 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Aha. I gather that, in regard to the present job, the idea is just to
assure the bits will enter the bushings without clanging against the
top openings.

Sort of... The platform that drives the heads is stable enough to keep
that from happening normally. Without drill bushings, it's to help
control vibration and hole location a bit - with "a bit" being the
operative words but no pun intended.

With rigid tooling, making a hole in a round pipe is still a challenge.
Drill bushings are the #1 solution. Very short tooling and as much
stabilization of the driver is #2...

Is the customer planning to use a conventional drill jig?

You know, I wish I could answer that. We hear so very little from
customers post-implementation that I'm not sure how he is setting that
up - or has set it up in the past for that matter...

I presume that because it is a fixed, dedicated set-up that the drill
bushing plate will have renewable inserts and be anchored to the work
surface somehow. ...He may not ever retract the tooling 100% out of the
bushing for all I know...




--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:44:45 -0400, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

On 8/20/2013 9:38 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Aha. I gather that, in regard to the present job, the idea is just to
assure the bits will enter the bushings without clanging against the
top openings.

Sort of... The platform that drives the heads is stable enough to keep
that from happening normally. Without drill bushings, it's to help
control vibration and hole location a bit - with "a bit" being the
operative words but no pun intended.

With rigid tooling, making a hole in a round pipe is still a challenge.
Drill bushings are the #1 solution. Very short tooling and as much
stabilization of the driver is #2...

Is the customer planning to use a conventional drill jig?

You know, I wish I could answer that. We hear so very little from
customers post-implementation that I'm not sure how he is setting that
up - or has set it up in the past for that matter...

I presume that because it is a fixed, dedicated set-up that the drill
bushing plate will have renewable inserts and be anchored to the work
surface somehow. ...He may not ever retract the tooling 100% out of the
bushing for all I know...

Or..he could do it like they did it in the old days. Put the part on a
spndle mounted on a solid base..put a drill press in line to drill the
holes, where it rotates to the next and the next..and on t he other
side..a tapping head comes down and taps the part.

Use a double unit and spin the part under them. Now you are only
drilling/tapping 2 holes at a time, but very rapidly.


"There are no leftists in mainstream American politics.

Just two right wing parties, one hard right and one softer."
Christopher A. Lee, 8/18/2013

On 2013-08-20, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
So I promised to post some of our challenges here...

Anyhow... He calls me a few days ago with a new challenge. He needs to
drill six holes in one stroke. 7/8" diameter in ductile cast iron.
Nothing fancy, just needs thru holes for mounting a flange-type part.

[ ... ]

We came up with a staggered length head design that we believe will work
for him. In essence, the machine will only see the load of two holes at
a time as the "bits" will pass thru the part before the next two engage,
etc.

Just out of curiosity -- is he going to be using split-point
drills? He should, as they should reduce the thrust needed
significantly.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 21 Aug 2013 00:06:50 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-08-20, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
So I promised to post some of our challenges here...

Anyhow... He calls me a few days ago with a new challenge. He needs to
drill six holes in one stroke. 7/8" diameter in ductile cast iron.
Nothing fancy, just needs thru holes for mounting a flange-type part.

[ ... ]

We came up with a staggered length head design that we believe will work
for him. In essence, the machine will only see the load of two holes at
a time as the "bits" will pass thru the part before the next two engage,
etc.

Just out of curiosity -- is he going to be using split-point
drills? He should, as they should reduce the thrust needed
significantly.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Indeed they will!


"There are no leftists in mainstream American politics.

Just two right wing parties, one hard right and one softer."
Christopher A. Lee, 8/18/2013

On 8/20/2013 8:06 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
Just out of curiosity -- is he going to be using split-point
drills? He should, as they should reduce the thrust needed
significantly.

On larger diameter tooling, I always suggest a split point tool - or
even single step tooling at times. At this point, I'm not sure what he
has chosen though.



--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:48:53 -0400, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

On 8/20/2013 8:06 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
Just out of curiosity -- is he going to be using split-point
drills? He should, as they should reduce the thrust needed
significantly.

On larger diameter tooling, I always suggest a split point tool - or
even single step tooling at times. At this point, I'm not sure what he
has chosen though.

With ductile iron, machineability depends heavily on hardness (this
sounds like a soft casting, though) and the level of free, dispersed
carbides. Trying to get too delicate with drill bits is not likely to
give good results. Something like a Racon point may be the trick, but
I'm sure there is experience-based data on drilling the stuff, which
is a lot better than guessing.

--
Ed Huntress

On 8/21/2013 8:34 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
With ductile iron, machineability depends heavily on hardness (this
sounds like a soft casting, though) and the level of free, dispersed
carbides. Trying to get too delicate with drill bits is not likely to
give good results. Something like a Racon point may be the trick, but
I'm sure there is experience-based data on drilling the stuff, which
is a lot better than guessing.

The guy is making thru holes which will then be manually cut into slots
in a future operation. I doubt "good results" for this particular
customer actually has much more meaning than "a hole in roughly the
right place" but I still need the stability for the machine as we build
for thrust, but side load.



--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:42:49 -0400, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

On 8/21/2013 8:34 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
With ductile iron, machineability depends heavily on hardness (this
sounds like a soft casting, though) and the level of free, dispersed
carbides. Trying to get too delicate with drill bits is not likely to
give good results. Something like a Racon point may be the trick, but
I'm sure there is experience-based data on drilling the stuff, which
is a lot better than guessing.

The guy is making thru holes which will then be manually cut into slots
in a future operation. I doubt "good results" for this particular
customer actually has much more meaning than "a hole in roughly the
right place" but I still need the stability for the machine as we build
for thrust, but side load.

Hmm. It sounds like an interesting workpiece. Do you know what it's
for?

I don't know if you caught this, but I'm now chief editor of Fab Shop
Magazine Direct. Any fabrication jobs you encounter could be
interesting to me -- and with possible promotion value for you. g

--
Ed Huntress

On 8/21/2013 8:52 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Hmm. It sounds like an interesting workpiece. Do you know what it's
for?

In this case, I'm quoting the company that casts the part and then does
quick prep work for the end user.

I can guess at the end user by data on the drawing, but I don't have
definite info on what - or really who might be ultimately using it at
the end of the story. I can tell it gets epoxy coated and that the name
of the next user looks to be water-oriented... But that's about it.

I don't know if you caught this, but I'm now chief editor of Fab Shop
Magazine Direct. Any fabrication jobs you encounter could be
interesting to me -- and with possible promotion value for you. g

I didn't catch that. Now I have to be nice to you! G

I hope you are enjoying it.

I would always need to clear any really detailed release of data with
the customer, but we are working with a few folks that might be
interesting to you and your readers. ...Especially a certain electric
car company that really turns heads. I'll reach out and see if they
might want to share stuff (we signed an NDA) for some possible publicity.

Of course you can shoot me a message here or privately if something pops
up that looks like it might fit a desire / need you have.

....This could be fun.


--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On 8/20/2013 7:57 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
So I promised to post some of our challenges here...

We do simple drilling in most cases. No CNC, no feed calculations, just
an air stroked automatic drilling machine with a supplemental hydraulic
feed control that is manually adjustable. You look at the chips and
determine whether you need to go faster or slower, etc. RPM rates are
usually conservative but slightly adjustable. It's a purpose built
machine for most people.

So... I've got a return customer who loves our product. We were
initially nervous about selling to this guy because of the difficulty of
this projects, but it turns out he implemented drill bushings and all
other types of stabilization that made it a huge success. ...And we
were transparent with him about our concerns from day #1 but he admitted
that after many calls, we were the people who would actually work with
him and provide a custom solution for an affordable cost.

Anyhow... He calls me a few days ago with a new challenge. He needs to
drill six holes in one stroke. 7/8" diameter in ductile cast iron.
Nothing fancy, just needs thru holes for mounting a flange-type part.

Problem is, the largest machine I have is a 3 HP unit (sometimes 5 HP on
special jobs). It can only create 1000 lbs. of thrust at 100 psi shop
air and we really don't like pushing it with more air because the
components inside have not been tested under heaver loads in a
production atmosphere. We've run as high as 1600 lbs. of thrust for a
number of tests, but tests are different than real life, day in and day
out use...

So, after the standard "Well, you know we need to really think this
through because it's once again a uniquely challenging application."
statements, we dig into it.

His cycle time isn't critical but being able to press a button and walk
away is.

We came up with a staggered length head design that we believe will work
for him. In essence, the machine will only see the load of two holes at
a time as the "bits" will pass thru the part before the next two engage,
etc.

We are likely quoting a 6" stroke machine with a full 6" of hydraulic
feed control. Air stroked at 120 PSI shop air. Drill bushings. Guide
rods to further stabilize the heavy multispindle drill head (maybe
spring loaded to decrease some of the weight load too). ER40 style
spindles and collets - maybe ASA. 3 HP with a gear reduction system
running around 375 RPM (conservative). Pneumatic stroke controller (FRL,
start button, tubes, fittings, starter bottle of oil - Press the button
and the drill will stroke forward to a limit switch and then retract and
wait for the button to be pressed again.) 3 phase motor - panel and
additional controls by the customer.

If he needed a faster cycle time, we would have face mounted the
multiple spindle head onto a motor and gear reducer combination and
suggested he have someone build him a hydraulic slide mechanism... We've
done that many times successfully but prefer to avoid making the slides
themselves. Those big slide jobs excite me as I really enjoy the larger
drilling devices. ...But they are rare these days.

...Still working on the details with this customer, but it is just
another example of what gets placed in front of us on a daily basis.
Cost is still reasonable since there isn't much customization going on
here, just some creativity...

Any random comments, questions or critiques?





I've read all the responses so far and I'm surprised that nobody
mentioned using core drills to reduce HP HP and pressure requirements.
Of course, I don't know the ups and downs of it, I just came to mind.

I'll have to send you a pic of a "multi-drilling machine" we put
together to drill two screw pilot holes in a block. I took a small B&D
hobby drill press and bolted a Harbor Freight 3/8" $20 hand drill on the
side. Truly inspired!

On 8/20/2013 9:44 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
On 8/20/2013 9:38 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Aha. I gather that, in regard to the present job, the idea is just to
assure the bits will enter the bushings without clanging against the
top openings.

Sort of... The platform that drives the heads is stable enough to keep
that from happening normally. Without drill bushings, it's to help
control vibration and hole location a bit - with "a bit" being the
operative words but no pun intended.

With rigid tooling, making a hole in a round pipe is still a challenge.
Drill bushings are the #1 solution. Very short tooling and as much
stabilization of the driver is #2...

Is the customer planning to use a conventional drill jig?

You know, I wish I could answer that. We hear so very little from
customers post-implementation that I'm not sure how he is setting that
up - or has set it up in the past for that matter...

I presume that because it is a fixed, dedicated set-up that the drill
bushing plate will have renewable inserts and be anchored to the work
surface somehow. ...He may not ever retract the tooling 100% out of the
bushing for all I know...






How does one determine clearance for drill bushings?

On 8/21/2013 11:42 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
I've read all the responses so far and I'm surprised that nobody
mentioned using core drills to reduce HP HP and pressure requirements.
Of course, I don't know the ups and downs of it, I just came to mind.

Fantastic point! Annular cutters or core drills are great! I could
perform the entire process with less stroke, etc. The only problem is
the "plug" of material that sometimes remains in the center of the
tooling regardless of how fancy of an ejection spring or system is used.

With a core drill, the customer would also have to stop the motor after
each "stroke" to check for the plugs. With standard tooling, they can
turn the motor on at 8 AM and off at lunch, then repeat at 1 PM until
closing time, etc.

The start-up loads sometimes cause companies to pay extra so many prefer
to simply run the machines constantly during a shift if it's a
production job.

I'll have to send you a pic of a "multi-drilling machine" we put
together to drill two screw pilot holes in a block. I took a small B&D
hobby drill press and bolted a Harbor Freight 3/8" $20 hand drill on the
side. Truly inspired!

Hey... If it worked for the job, then it's perfect, right?

I have a customer who has 12 Dewalt hand drills tie strapped to a bar of
some sort. They stroke it *manually* down into their wood part to create
a line of holes. He replaces at least one drill a week.

I could sell him a device to do it, but he doesn't have the volume to
justify a larger, bigger ticket purchase for that specific application.

It's not like a 12 spindle fixed pattern head with 7" spacing could be
re-used for much else...




--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On 8/21/2013 11:45 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
How does one determine clearance for drill bushings?

Depends on the application.

If the device is a single drill, then the bushings can be tighter
tolerances.

If the device is 36" long, has an expected growth pattern of a few
thousandths+ due to thermal expansion during use, then it's a whole new
ball game.

....then you have to worry about whether the head is aluminum or steel,
whether the bushing plate is the same material or different, whether you
can sufficiently cool the device to control growth or manage it in
another manner, etc.



--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:59:08 -0400, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I have a customer who has 12 Dewalt hand drills tie strapped to a bar of
some sort. They stroke it *manually* down into their wood part to create
a line of holes. He replaces at least one drill a week.

LOL, reminds me of some of the things we did at my previous employer. Was
always fun rejecting offers of extended warranties (never mind that retail
warranties often exclude industrial use...) by explaining just how I was going
to modify what ever tool I was buying that day.
--
William

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:01:12 -0400, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

On 8/21/2013 8:52 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Hmm. It sounds like an interesting workpiece. Do you know what it's
for?

In this case, I'm quoting the company that casts the part and then does
quick prep work for the end user.

I can guess at the end user by data on the drawing, but I don't have
definite info on what - or really who might be ultimately using it at
the end of the story. I can tell it gets epoxy coated and that the name
of the next user looks to be water-oriented... But that's about it.

I don't know if you caught this, but I'm now chief editor of Fab Shop
Magazine Direct. Any fabrication jobs you encounter could be
interesting to me -- and with possible promotion value for you. g

I didn't catch that. Now I have to be nice to you! G

Nah. Just get me a good story that will interest our readers, and you
can swear at me all you want. d8-)


I hope you are enjoying it.

Very much. I've been freelancing for a few years and I didn't realize
how much I missed being in charge of the editorial. I closed my first
issue yesterday; it will appear Sept. 6th or 7th. Here are some old
ones:

http://www.fsmdirect.com/

The search box is at the bottom of the page. I'd like to move that to
the top. The issues are pretty much independent entitities but the
search engine spans all of them.


I would always need to clear any really detailed release of data with
the customer, but we are working with a few folks that might be
interesting to you and your readers. ...Especially a certain electric
car company that really turns heads. I'll reach out and see if they
might want to share stuff (we signed an NDA) for some possible publicity.

Ok. You can see what we cover from the link above. It's laser, plasma,
waterjet and punch-press cutting; welding and other assembly; sawing,
fabrication-related drilling; bending; shearing; stamping; related
software; and so on. Anything you'd find in a fab shop. I imagine some
of your customers are drilling parts for fabrication-shop assembly.

Also, I wrote a roundup for them last year on multi-function
chip-making machines, and we're finding that fab shops are interested
in those machines for a variety of value-added jobs.


Of course you can shoot me a message here or privately if something pops
up that looks like it might fit a desire / need you have.

You can bet on it.


...This could be fun.

It is. It beats the heck out of work. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On 8/21/2013 11:59 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
On 8/21/2013 11:42 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
I've read all the responses so far and I'm surprised that nobody
mentioned using core drills to reduce HP HP and pressure requirements.
Of course, I don't know the ups and downs of it, I just came to mind.

Fantastic point! Annular cutters or core drills are great! I could
perform the entire process with less stroke, etc. The only problem is
the "plug" of material that sometimes remains in the center of the
tooling regardless of how fancy of an ejection spring or system is used.

With a core drill, the customer would also have to stop the motor after
each "stroke" to check for the plugs. With standard tooling, they can
turn the motor on at 8 AM and off at lunch, then repeat at 1 PM until
closing time, etc.

The start-up loads sometimes cause companies to pay extra so many prefer
to simply run the machines constantly during a shift if it's a
production job.

I'll have to send you a pic of a "multi-drilling machine" we put
together to drill two screw pilot holes in a block. I took a small B&D
hobby drill press and bolted a Harbor Freight 3/8" $20 hand drill on the
side. Truly inspired!

Hey... If it worked for the job, then it's perfect, right?

I have a customer who has 12 Dewalt hand drills tie strapped to a bar of
some sort. They stroke it *manually* down into their wood part to create
a line of holes. He replaces at least one drill a week.

I could sell him a device to do it, but he doesn't have the volume to
justify a larger, bigger ticket purchase for that specific application.

It's not like a 12 spindle fixed pattern head with 7" spacing could be
re-used for much else...





A man after my own heart! I still use my Commander where the volume
justifies it though parts are expensive and getting scarce. I see the
time where we will have to make our own U-joints and such.

On 8/21/2013 2:08 PM, William Bagwell wrote:
On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:59:08 -0400, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I have a customer who has 12 Dewalt hand drills tie strapped to a bar of
some sort. They stroke it *manually* down into their wood part to create
a line of holes. He replaces at least one drill a week.

LOL, reminds me of some of the things we did at my previous employer. Was
always fun rejecting offers of extended warranties (never mind that retail
warranties often exclude industrial use...) by explaining just how I was going
to modify what ever tool I was buying that day.


Yep, they make a fortune on extended warranties and push them
hard...except when it's obvious the extended warranty will cost them.

On 8/21/2013 7:30 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

A man after my own heart! I still use my Commander where the volume
justifies it though parts are expensive and getting scarce. I see the
time where we will have to make our own U-joints and such.

Try Midwest Multi-Drill. 630-832-3907. Tell them we said hello after
you leave a message on their machine and they call you back.


--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On 8/22/2013 8:01 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
On 8/21/2013 7:30 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

A man after my own heart! I still use my Commander where the volume
justifies it though parts are expensive and getting scarce. I see the
time where we will have to make our own U-joints and such.

Try Midwest Multi-Drill. 630-832-3907. Tell them we said hello after
you leave a message on their machine and they call you back.



Salute!