A good customer of mine just sent in a request for a few drills and tappers.

They want to drill and tap in a single stroke (DRAP) and are doing so in
Aluminum.

It's tough because of the thickness of the material and the fact that
each unit has to perform a two hole process. ...Yes, two drilled holes
and two tapped holes, one stroke.

....We can do it. A quick example of a single spindle DRAP operation can
be seen he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czK0f-R5dVQ

All I need from the customer at this point to generate a quote is:

1. Cut tap or roll form tap?

2. C-C of the two hole patterns?

3. He requested four. ...Is that four units or four holes? The partial
drawing (PNG and STEP format) I received shows four holes total, but it
also shows a part that is used in the quantity of four on his final product.

4. Are the machines going to be manually run or controlled by a PLC, etc.

5. What direction will the process take place in? Vertical down,
Horizontal, etc.

Per Mr. Gardner's request, I have now shared some of my metalworking
stuff with you. May the conversations commence!


--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
A good customer of mine just sent in a request for a few drills and
tappers.

They want to drill and tap in a single stroke (DRAP) and are doing so in
Aluminum.

It's tough because of the thickness of the material and the fact that each
unit has to perform a two hole process. ...Yes, two drilled holes and two
tapped holes, one stroke.

...We can do it. A quick example of a single spindle DRAP operation can be
seen he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czK0f-R5dVQ

All I need from the customer at this point to generate a quote is:

1. Cut tap or roll form tap?

2. C-C of the two hole patterns?

3. He requested four. ...Is that four units or four holes? The partial
drawing (PNG and STEP format) I received shows four holes total, but it
also shows a part that is used in the quantity of four on his final
product.

4. Are the machines going to be manually run or controlled by a PLC, etc.

5. What direction will the process take place in? Vertical down,
Horizontal, etc.

Per Mr. Gardner's request, I have now shared some of my metalworking stuff
with you. May the conversations commence!

How about drill taps? Too thick?

Wouldn't you need different speed heads so tapping and drilling speed and
feed would match up with their respective holes and operations.

On 8/14/2013 10:33 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
A good customer of mine just sent in a request for a few drills and
tappers.

They want to drill and tap in a single stroke (DRAP) and are doing so in
Aluminum.

It's tough because of the thickness of the material and the fact that
each unit has to perform a two hole process. ...Yes, two drilled holes
and two tapped holes, one stroke.

...We can do it. A quick example of a single spindle DRAP operation can
be seen he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czK0f-R5dVQ

All I need from the customer at this point to generate a quote is:

1. Cut tap or roll form tap?

2. C-C of the two hole patterns?

3. He requested four. ...Is that four units or four holes? The partial
drawing (PNG and STEP format) I received shows four holes total, but it
also shows a part that is used in the quantity of four on his final
product.

4. Are the machines going to be manually run or controlled by a PLC, etc.

5. What direction will the process take place in? Vertical down,
Horizontal, etc.

Per Mr. Gardner's request, I have now shared some of my metalworking
stuff with you. May the conversations commence!




COOL, some fun for a change! A couple of questions: What are the
constraints for C-C? Can hole tooling be "ganged" to be run from the
same power head? Are the torque requirements the same for rolling and
cutting threads? What's the difference in percentage of costs to go
PLC? Wouldn't the scrap rate be a LOT lower with the PLC? What
difference does direction make? Do you have to lube? What lube and how
does it get applied?

You'd love my latest multi-hole drilling operation that consists of a
guy using a Harbor Freight hand drill on a handle clamped in a jig that
has two hardened 0-1 drill guides. When I need more than a couple
hundred a day, I'll have to do something else.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
A good customer of mine just sent in a request for a few drills and
tappers.

They want to drill and tap in a single stroke (DRAP) and are doing so in
Aluminum.

It's tough because of the thickness of the material and the fact that
each unit has to perform a two hole process. ...Yes, two drilled holes
and two tapped holes, one stroke.

...We can do it. A quick example of a single spindle DRAP operation can
be seen he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czK0f-R5dVQ

All I need from the customer at this point to generate a quote is:

1. Cut tap or roll form tap?

2. C-C of the two hole patterns?

3. He requested four. ...Is that four units or four holes? The partial
drawing (PNG and STEP format) I received shows four holes total, but it
also shows a part that is used in the quantity of four on his final
product.

4. Are the machines going to be manually run or controlled by a PLC, etc.

5. What direction will the process take place in? Vertical down,
Horizontal, etc.

Per Mr. Gardner's request, I have now shared some of my metalworking
stuff with you. May the conversations commence!

How about drill taps? Too thick?

Wouldn't you need different speed heads so tapping and drilling speed and
feed would match up with their respective holes and operations.


In either caser, Sfm (rpm) is dependent mostly on material and tool
diameter; (or workpiece diameter if turning)....

--tapping is typically done at slower than the optimum rate mostly because
of machine/ operator/ cnc controller restraints.

That said, drilling at a moderately reduced rate typically causes no
objectionable results other than perhaps a slightly higher per-hole
cost...(oftentimes this balances out into the positive since this all
involves having to actually calculate cutting tool cost proper, labor cost
to replace said tool, downtime, and so forth)

On 8/14/2013 6:41 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

How about drill taps? Too thick?

Sorry. Should have been more clear. DRAP is a Drill-Tap tool.

Wouldn't you need different speed heads so tapping and drilling speed
and feed would match up with their respective holes and operations.

RPM change is not necessary although would greatly enhance the
efficiency. ...For this guy, he has minutes to perform the operation
while other steps are taking place so the RPM change isn't really
critical at all.

As for feed... Yes. However, the beauty of a pneumatically stroked
unit is that so long as the threads need not be extremely high quality
and/or so long as the customer doesn't set the thrust too high and yank
out a thread on the way back, the feed rate can be mostly managed by the
thrust pressure on the tool.

Low pressure causes a light cut when drilling, but it's a sacrifice that
the process requires unless you go to a much more expensive screw or
servo feed option, etc.




--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On 8/14/2013 6:54 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

COOL, some fun for a change! A couple of questions: What are the
constraints for C-C?

The file is put away, but I believe the C-C was around 2.000"

Can hole tooling be "ganged" to be run from the
same power head?

But of course! Have we met?!?

Are the torque requirements the same for rolling and
cutting threads?

No. I'm not an expert on this because I simply provide the RPM and
sufficient HP based on the tooling manufacturer's suggestions, but roll
form and cut taps do require different settings. I believe roll form to
be more needy in every case I've run across.

What's the difference in percentage of costs to go
PLC?

5-10% if it's my units. If they need to jump to ball screw or servo
feed... 200-2000% or more depending on who they call.

Wouldn't the scrap rate be a LOT lower with the PLC?

Not necessarily. PLC (programmable logic controller, right?) use is
when a fully automated "cell" or similar set-up is in use. Usually for
cycle time efficiency. In this case, the process is happening while
another process that takes quite some time also takes place so I could
run at 1/4 speed and still be done with plenty of time to spare.

What
difference does direction make?

Configuration of the machine mostly. Vertical up or down generally puts
the motor in a position similar to a drill press - hung behind the
mounting plate. Horizontal puts the motor above the unit so that you
can mount to a table top without cutting a hole in it for anything other
than mounting bolts and locator pins, etc.

Do you have to lube? What lube and how
does it get applied?

I'm Sicilian. My skin is generally pretty oily to begin with... Or did
you mean the machine? Pail 'ole air oil in the air source... Or did you
mean the tooling? I leave that up to the customer and their tooling
supplier. Just like buying a drill press or Bridgeport mill, etc, you
wouldn't ask them what coolant to use with your tooling. I try to stay
clear of such discussions because of the liability. The tooling
manufacturer knows better than I do anyway in almost all cases.

You'd love my latest multi-hole drilling operation that consists of a
guy using a Harbor Freight hand drill on a handle clamped in a jig that
has two hardened 0-1 drill guides. When I need more than a couple
hundred a day, I'll have to do something else.

You don't know how many times I suggest similar set-ups for people who
call me thinking I have the best solution for their project - only to be
surprised that their volume doesn't justify a purchase from me. I
usually ask them if they would commute to work daily in an empty school
bus and then transition the analogy to my machines being too much for
their project. ...I just don't feel right selling to folks who really
don't need my stuff and even suggest my competition when I know they can
do better than me.


--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On 8/15/2013 1:21 AM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
In either caser, Sfm (rpm) is dependent mostly on material and tool
diameter; (or workpiece diameter if turning)....

--tapping is typically done at slower than the optimum rate mostly because
of machine/ operator/ cnc controller restraints.

That said, drilling at a moderately reduced rate typically causes no
objectionable results other than perhaps a slightly higher per-hole
cost...(oftentimes this balances out into the positive since this all
involves having to actually calculate cutting tool cost proper, labor cost
to replace said tool, downtime, and so forth)

As they shout in Catholic churches... BINGO!

If the customer isn't in a rush, the slower tapping RPM can usually be
used for the drilling process with no negative side effects.



--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:10:54 -0400, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

On 8/15/2013 1:21 AM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
In either caser, Sfm (rpm) is dependent mostly on material and tool
diameter; (or workpiece diameter if turning)....

--tapping is typically done at slower than the optimum rate mostly because
of machine/ operator/ cnc controller restraints.

That said, drilling at a moderately reduced rate typically causes no
objectionable results other than perhaps a slightly higher per-hole
cost...(oftentimes this balances out into the positive since this all
involves having to actually calculate cutting tool cost proper, labor cost
to replace said tool, downtime, and so forth)

As they shout in Catholic churches... BINGO!

If the customer isn't in a rush, the slower tapping RPM can usually be
used for the drilling process with no negative side effects.

If you add in the scrapping or rework costs every time you break off a
tap inside a part - either the cost to dig it out and save it, or to
scrap the half-done part...

Slowing down the feeds and speeds a little, using a proper tapping
head that will clutch out before breaking the tap when it jams, being
proactive in changing the tapping tool for a sharp one at the first
signs of sticking or tripping the clutch on less than a full stroke,
and using proper lubricant and cooling... will pay off big-time.

Unless you're in the business of making scrap metal - most people I
know only get paid for shipping the finished good ones to the
customer. The bad ones are a waste of both good materials and time.