Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

Looking at the jobs available for PLC and automation, one area that I need
to strengthen is in Robotics. The plant where I work uses some robots but
the work is all outsourced. We are shown how to jog the robots out of a jam
and restart it, but that's about it.

So I was thinking about looking for a bargain industrial style robot,
something I can use to learn about robotics. Any favorites as far as
friendly companies, online documentation, etc.? I don't want to buy a $1500
bargain robot only to find out there is no available documentation or it
requires high $$$ software or something. I'd like it to be something with
demand like Fanuc or ABB or other major industrial robotics manufacturers.

RogerN


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 23:42:26 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

Looking at the jobs available for PLC and automation, one area that I need
to strengthen is in Robotics. The plant where I work uses some robots but
the work is all outsourced. We are shown how to jog the robots out of a jam
and restart it, but that's about it.

So I was thinking about looking for a bargain industrial style robot,
something I can use to learn about robotics. Any favorites as far as
friendly companies, online documentation, etc.? I don't want to buy a $1500
bargain robot only to find out there is no available documentation or it
requires high $$$ software or something. I'd like it to be something with
demand like Fanuc or ABB or other major industrial robotics manufacturers.

RogerN


Its getting to be, A LONG TME AGO, but I made four GM Fanuc robots do
my bidding for a couple years. The control language was a computer
language most similar to Pascal (maybe nobody has heard of that
anymore) I went to GM for training and they also had a computer
program with robot simulator so you could test your code at your desk.

Anyway, 20 years ago, I found writing programs for robots to be easier
than PLC programs.

If you are interested, my son has a scrap welding robot he'd be
willing to sell.

Karl


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...

snip

Its getting to be, A LONG TME AGO, but I made four GM Fanuc robots do
my bidding for a couple years. The control language was a computer
language most similar to Pascal (maybe nobody has heard of that
anymore) I went to GM for training and they also had a computer
program with robot simulator so you could test your code at your desk.

Anyway, 20 years ago, I found writing programs for robots to be easier
than PLC programs.

If you are interested, my son has a scrap welding robot he'd be
willing to sell.

Karl


Where I used to work we had a couple of Asea (now ABB) robots that I got
working. I just followed the instructions for programming and moved it
point to point storing the points, then the robot would repeat the moves.
They eBayed them after a while, sold for $100, I would have bid but I didn't
watch the auction, I figured 2 working Asea robots would be way over my
budget. Jogging to a few points and programming those points was the limit
of my experience with robot programming.

Does the welding robot have the controller? I'm wondering about shipping,
how far away and any idea on weight? For learning purposes, I'm looking at
some little robots on eBay, like they use in schools for robotics training.
I'd prefer a more industrial robot but finding something low cost that works
nearby is the trick. I could take a college course with robotics but I can
learn more by buying a robot and reading the instructions, doing some
projects.

RogerN


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

....
Does the welding robot have the controller? I'm wondering about shipping,
how far away and any idea on weight? For learning purposes, I'm looking at
some little robots on eBay, like they use in schools for robotics training.
I'd prefer a more industrial robot but finding something low cost that works
nearby is the trick. I could take a college course with robotics but I can
learn more by buying a robot and reading the instructions, doing some
projects.

RogerN


Other than moving points, the robot waits for inputs, and fires
outputs. Programming is the simple part.

My son's robot and controller would weigh maybe 1000 lbs. so shipping
would be the main cost. send me your email if you're serious
karltownsendATembarqmail.com


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 26/07/13 05:42, RogerN wrote:
Looking at the jobs available for PLC and automation, one area that I need
to strengthen is in Robotics. The plant where I work uses some robots but
the work is all outsourced. We are shown how to jog the robots out of a jam
and restart it, but that's about it.

So I was thinking about looking for a bargain industrial style robot,
something I can use to learn about robotics. Any favorites as far as
friendly companies, online documentation, etc.? I don't want to buy a $1500
bargain robot only to find out there is no available documentation or it
requires high $$$ software or something. I'd like it to be something with
demand like Fanuc or ABB or other major industrial robotics manufacturers.

RogerN


Maybe not what you had in mind but you might find it amusing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU-tuY0Z7nQ . From the British comedy
series Not the Nine O'clock News.


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:
regor wrote:

So I was thinking about looking for a bargain industrial style robot,
something I can use to learn about robotics. Any favorites as far as
friendly companies, online documentation, etc.? I don't want to buy a

$1500
bargain robot only to find out there is no available documentation or it
requires high $$$ software or something. I'd like it to be something with


demand like Fanuc or ABB or other major industrial robotics manufacturers.





Perhaps start with something that's more geared towards learning? Like
this:

http://youtu.be/ov0SJJt2PhY

Lookup Scorbot (a.k.a. Eshed Robotech, Intelitek, Depco) - you can start
with an ER-III which is almost like a toy (but has all the functionality
of a "proper" industrial robot) and, if that's not enough, progress to
ER-VII (almost industrial - perhaps used somewhere in light industry) and
then onto ER-9, an actual industrial robot. There's a ton of info online
and there are quite a few on eBay at any given time, all within $300-$400
range, and sometimes have add-ons like conveyors, linear screw stages and
rotary tables. Can definitely outfit the whole lab for under $1000

--
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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 23:42:26 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

Looking at the jobs available for PLC and automation, one area that I need
to strengthen is in Robotics. The plant where I work uses some robots but
the work is all outsourced. We are shown how to jog the robots out of a jam
and restart it, but that's about it.

So I was thinking about looking for a bargain industrial style robot,
something I can use to learn about robotics. Any favorites as far as
friendly companies, online documentation, etc.? I don't want to buy a $1500
bargain robot only to find out there is no available documentation or it
requires high $$$ software or something. I'd like it to be something with
demand like Fanuc or ABB or other major industrial robotics manufacturers.

RogerN

========================

While we all like to use our own "stuff," you would most
likely be far ahead to check if any of the community
colleges or vo-techs in your area have a robotics class or
two, You can learn on their equipment, the learning is
structured, and you are "net working."

In most cases you can sign up for single classes with the
consent of the instructor, but most likely these will be
non-credit [toward degree or certificate].

Also check with your local job placement office as all or
part of the tuition/fees/books may be covered.


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 2013-07-26, Karl Townsend wrote:

Its getting to be, A LONG TME AGO, but I made four GM Fanuc robots do
my bidding for a couple years. The control language was a computer
language most similar to Pascal (maybe nobody has heard of that
anymore) I went to GM for training and they also had a computer
program with robot simulator so you could test your code at your desk.


I remember Pascal, and I used it to write a serious suite
programs -- but it is not really a good choice for such. It was
designed as a teaching language, to make it difficult for you to engage
in bad programming habits. But in the process, it makes a lot of things
awkward to do. (This was a version of ISO standard Pascal. I think
that Borland's turbo Pascal, and UCSD Pascal were a bit more forgiving,
but I never used them.

Anyway, 20 years ago, I found writing programs for robots to be easier
than PLC programs.


I wounder how a machine control program which resembles Pascal
would be to work with.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 7/25/2013 11:42 PM, RogerN wrote:
Looking at the jobs available for PLC and automation, one area that I need
to strengthen is in Robotics. The plant where I work uses some robots but
the work is all outsourced. We are shown how to jog the robots out of a jam
and restart it, but that's about it.

So I was thinking about looking for a bargain industrial style robot,
something I can use to learn about robotics. Any favorites as far as
friendly companies, online documentation, etc.? I don't want to buy a $1500
bargain robot only to find out there is no available documentation or it
requires high $$$ software or something. I'd like it to be something with
demand like Fanuc or ABB or other major industrial robotics manufacturers.

RogerN


My favorite robot was Rhoda, as played by Julie Newmar on the show "My
Living Doll".

David

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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

I wounder how a machine control program which resembles Pascal
would be to work with.

Enjoy,
DoN.


The semiconductor test stations I worked on used a DEC dialect of
Pascal, with a few Assembly hardware drivers. Programming test
routines wasn't difficult as long as we paid close attention to
variable typing, which meant bits and short integers in that
application. We designed the hardware registers to mesh cleanly, like
one status bit per byte rather than grouping and masking them.

I've written a fair amount of hardware interfacing code in QBasic,
which is part way between Pascal and C, with the structure and typing
available but not as mandatory, and a single level of pointers that
enables reckless variable abuse such as embedding a machine language
interrupt routine as a String.

I really liked having GOTO for exception handlers so they didn't
clutter the main DO Loop structure. I wasn't about to ask the
professor for formal permission to do an emergency shutdown.

The last step in the test station's troubleshooting procedure gave the
software manager's home phone number. He wasn't too happy when
National Semiconductor called him at 3AM Eastern time.
jsw




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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...

My favorite robot was Rhoda, as played by Julie Newmar on the show
"My Living Doll".

David


She was my favorite Catwoman, too.


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

On 2013-07-26, Karl Townsend wrote:

Its getting to be, A LONG TME AGO, but I made four GM Fanuc robots do
my bidding for a couple years. The control language was a computer
language most similar to Pascal (maybe nobody has heard of that
anymore) I went to GM for training and they also had a computer
program with robot simulator so you could test your code at your desk.


I remember Pascal, and I used it to write a serious suite
programs -- but it is not really a good choice for such. It was
designed as a teaching language, to make it difficult for you to engage
in bad programming habits. But in the process, it makes a lot of things
awkward to do. (This was a version of ISO standard Pascal. I think
that Borland's turbo Pascal, and UCSD Pascal were a bit more forgiving,
but I never used them.

Anyway, 20 years ago, I found writing programs for robots to be easier
than PLC programs.


I wounder how a machine control program which resembles Pascal
would be to work with.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--


Some of the German Siemens programmers that program our controls use SCL
(Structured Control Language) that is supposed to be like Pascal.

Here's an example of their code:

IF ActualWeight=CoarseCutOff THEN // Dosieren bis der
CutOffCoarse erreicht ist
State:=StateFineSpeedDosing; // AbschaltPunkt für das
Umschalten von Grob und Feinsdosierung
END_IF;
ELSE
State:=StateIdle;
END_IF;
GOTO Fine;
;
StateFineSpeedDosing:
IF Start THEN
Takt:=Takt+1;
M1_SSP:=FineSpeed; // 0..100% Ansteuerung des Motors
M1_OnOff:=True; // Ein/Aus für Motor
DSV_OpenClose:=True; // Klappe auf

IF (NOT ReleaseCapture) THEN

OldActFineWeight:=ActualWeight;
// bzw wenn gleich Fine angefangen wird (AbruchRestart muss noch rein)
ReleaseCaptu=True;
TaktRelease:=1;
GOTO Fine;
END_IF;

;

RogerN


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
.. .

...
Does the welding robot have the controller? I'm wondering about shipping,
how far away and any idea on weight? For learning purposes, I'm looking
at
some little robots on eBay, like they use in schools for robotics
training.
I'd prefer a more industrial robot but finding something low cost that
works
nearby is the trick. I could take a college course with robotics but I
can
learn more by buying a robot and reading the instructions, doing some
projects.

RogerN


Other than moving points, the robot waits for inputs, and fires
outputs. Programming is the simple part.

My son's robot and controller would weigh maybe 1000 lbs. so shipping
would be the main cost. send me your email if you're serious
karltownsendATembarqmail.com



email sent.

RogerN
regoratmidwest.net


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 7/26/2013 8:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...

My favorite robot was Rhoda, as played by Julie Newmar on the show
"My Living Doll".

David


She was my favorite Catwoman, too.


Eartha Kitt and Halle Berry were also hot as Catwoman. For some reason,
I have no memory of Lee Meriwether in the role.

David

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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

David R. Birch wrote:
On 7/26/2013 8:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
My favorite robot was Rhoda, as played by Julie Newmar on the show
"My Living Doll".

David

She was my favorite Catwoman, too.


Eartha Kitt and Halle Berry were also hot as Catwoman. For some reason,
I have no memory of Lee Meriwether in the role.

David


She was in the '66 Batman movie. Catwoman/Kitka. Julie Newmar was the TV
catwoman at the time but had signed on to a different project.

--
Steve W.


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"passerby" wrote in message
ups.com...

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:
regor wrote:

So I was thinking about looking for a bargain industrial style robot,
something I can use to learn about robotics. Any favorites as far as
friendly companies, online documentation, etc.? I don't want to buy a

$1500
bargain robot only to find out there is no available documentation or it
requires high $$$ software or something. I'd like it to be something
with


demand like Fanuc or ABB or other major industrial robotics
manufacturers.





Perhaps start with something that's more geared towards learning? Like
this:

http://youtu.be/ov0SJJt2PhY

Lookup Scorbot (a.k.a. Eshed Robotech, Intelitek, Depco) - you can start
with an ER-III which is almost like a toy (but has all the functionality
of a "proper" industrial robot) and, if that's not enough, progress to
ER-VII (almost industrial - perhaps used somewhere in light industry) and
then onto ER-9, an actual industrial robot. There's a ton of info online
and there are quite a few on eBay at any given time, all within $300-$400
range, and sometimes have add-ons like conveyors, linear screw stages and
rotary tables. Can definitely outfit the whole lab for under $1000

--
posted from
http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...ts-580710-.htm
using PolytechForum's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to
rec.crafts.metalworking and other engineering groups


I've been looking at the smaller educational robots, it looks like I could
get something functional for less money than the industrial robots, and they
are more shipping friendly.

Many of the jobs I see where they want you to have robotics experience
specify ABB, Fanuc, or whatever brand(s) they use. That's why I'd prefer a
brand of robot that is in demand in industry, I know that what I would learn
on a Scorbot would apply to other robots but employers don't seem to
understand this. If this was applied to cars you'd have to have experience
driving every make and model of car or else go to training, knowing how to
drive is the key, you can learn the differences as you go.

RogerN


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
snip
========================

While we all like to use our own "stuff," you would most
likely be far ahead to check if any of the community
colleges or vo-techs in your area have a robotics class or
two, You can learn on their equipment, the learning is
structured, and you are "net working."

In most cases you can sign up for single classes with the
consent of the instructor, but most likely these will be
non-credit [toward degree or certificate].

Also check with your local job placement office as all or
part of the tuition/fees/books may be covered.


I agree if the schools would go deep enough into the robotics to be useful.
My previous robotic experience includes jogging to positions to teach the
robot and then the robot follows the path when you run the program. A guy
at work said that's all they did with their robotic arm at the technical
school. I would like to go a lot deeper, interfacing with PLC's and perhaps
machine vision. Educational home projects for robotics might include
reloading ammo, changing parts on the CNC mill, maybe it could stir supper
and become wife friendly. I can just see her tearing down my automated
reloading to "stir constantly while bringing to a boil"!

RogerN


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?


I found some simulator programs where you can write programs and test run
them.
Here's one, free for educational purposes.
V-rep pro edu http://www.coppeliarobotics.com/

Others:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotics_simulator

RogerN


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 2013-07-27, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

I wounder how a machine control program which resembles Pascal
would be to work with.

Enjoy,
DoN.


The semiconductor test stations I worked on used a DEC dialect of
Pascal, with a few Assembly hardware drivers. Programming test
routines wasn't difficult as long as we paid close attention to
variable typing, which meant bits and short integers in that
application. We designed the hardware registers to mesh cleanly, like
one status bit per byte rather than grouping and masking them.


O.K. Made it a bit more tolerable. The Pascal I used (and this
was in a database program) would not allow assignment of data between
different length string variables -- unless you did it one byte at a
time. A real pain, and a bunch of functions specifically for that.

But -- it *did* handle random access files, and that plus the
RECORD data type made it quite good for the application, other than the
string assignment pain.

I've written a fair amount of hardware interfacing code in QBasic,
which is part way between Pascal and C, with the structure and typing
available but not as mandatory, and a single level of pointers that
enables reckless variable abuse such as embedding a machine language
interrupt routine as a String.


O.K. Wasn't QBasic one of the compiled ones for CP/M? My above
Pascal programs were on an OS-9 system (the real OS-9, not the much
later Mac OS-9 -- the last gasp before they went unix based. :-)

I eventually ported that program from Pascal to C (once I got a
v7 unix box under a 68000 CPU), and that made some things much easier,
but I had to use a combination of bitmapped variables to emulate the SET
variable from Pascal -- which I had also used. :-)

It was one good way to learn both languages at the application
level.

I really liked having GOTO for exception handlers so they didn't
clutter the main DO Loop structure. I wasn't about to ask the
professor for formal permission to do an emergency shutdown.


:-)

The last step in the test station's troubleshooting procedure gave the
software manager's home phone number. He wasn't too happy when
National Semiconductor called him at 3AM Eastern time.


So the troubleshooting procedure did not quite anticipate
everything. :-) I presume that he had given permission for his phone
number to be in there? And were there provisions for updating that when
the manager went on to another company or another job within this
company?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: (KV4PH) | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-27, Jim Wilkins wrote:

O.K. Wasn't QBasic one of the compiled ones for CP/M? My above
Pascal programs were on an OS-9 system (the real OS-9, not the much
later Mac OS-9 -- the last gasp before they went unix based. :-)


The release I was using dated from around 1990, and could execute
either interpreted within the editor or compiled to a stand-alone
..EXE, which was very helpful. A similar version was native to DOS 6.22
and it can run (poorly) under NTVDM in Windows.

We started with Visual Basic 5 but dropped it because it lacked the
INP and OUT instructions that allow low-level hardware I/O access.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Program...s/Qbasic.shtml

The goal was to write IC application board programs that would run on
customers' unmodified lab PCs, which were typically older office
hand-downs. At that time all PCs had LPT ports but few had USB. The
LPT port is very simple to use for direct digital input and output. In
DOS the serial ports aren't much harder to set up to talk to custom
hardware. Windows polls them, destroying your setup.


The last step in the test station's troubleshooting procedure gave
the
software manager's home phone number. He wasn't too happy when
National Semiconductor called him at 3AM Eastern time.


So the troubleshooting procedure did not quite anticipate
everything. :-) I presume that he had given permission for his phone
number to be in there? And were there provisions for updating that
when
the manager went on to another company or another job within this
company?


He didn't know his number was in there until he received the first
late-night phone call. He was extremely sarcastic and deserving of
some payback.

jsw






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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 2013-07-28, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-27, Jim Wilkins wrote:

O.K. Wasn't QBasic one of the compiled ones for CP/M? My above
Pascal programs were on an OS-9 system (the real OS-9, not the much
later Mac OS-9 -- the last gasp before they went unix based. :-)


The release I was using dated from around 1990, and could execute
either interpreted within the editor or compiled to a stand-alone
.EXE, which was very helpful. A similar version was native to DOS 6.22
and it can run (poorly) under NTVDM in Windows.


O.K. Yes, interpreted makes debugging and experimenting easier,
as long as the compiled code behaves the same as the interpreted code. :-)

We started with Visual Basic 5 but dropped it because it lacked the
INP and OUT instructions that allow low-level hardware I/O access.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Program...s/Qbasic.shtml


O.K. Something which Intel processors would support, but not
ones like the Motorola 6800, 6809, and the 68000 family, which don't
have separate I/O instructions and just use memory mapped I/O devices
with standard read and write type instructions.

The goal was to write IC application board programs that would run on
customers' unmodified lab PCs, which were typically older office
hand-downs. At that time all PCs had LPT ports but few had USB. The
LPT port is very simple to use for direct digital input and output. In
DOS the serial ports aren't much harder to set up to talk to custom
hardware. Windows polls them, destroying your setup.


Hmm ... no way to tell Windows to keep its hands off those
ports? Another reason not to like Windows, then. :-)

The last step in the test station's troubleshooting procedure gave
the
software manager's home phone number. He wasn't too happy when
National Semiconductor called him at 3AM Eastern time.


So the troubleshooting procedure did not quite anticipate
everything. :-) I presume that he had given permission for his phone
number to be in there? And were there provisions for updating that
when
the manager went on to another company or another job within this
company?


He didn't know his number was in there until he received the first
late-night phone call. He was extremely sarcastic and deserving of
some payback.


Sounds like the team got the payback satisfaction, then. Were
the problems in the code a result of some limits which he put on the
team, thus making it even more appropriate that he get the
o-dark-hundred calls? :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-28, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Windows polls them, destroying your setup.


Hmm ... no way to tell Windows to keep its hands off those
ports? Another reason not to like Windows, then. :-)


Windows periodically checks printer status with the control bits, and
has a fit when it sees some combinations of the status bits. AFAIK it
leaves the data bits alone. I wrote a program to display and control
each bit.

Sounds like the team got the payback satisfaction, then. Were
the problems in the code a result of some limits which he put on the
team, thus making it even more appropriate that he get the
o-dark-hundred calls? :-)


A state-of-the-art semiconductor test station is a very complex and
tricky machine that the IC designers may use in ways they wouldn't
reveal to us. Like machine tools some combinations of operations will
misbehave or crash.

For example to measure the resistivity of certain IC structures you
might have to apply 100 Volts and measure the resulting current flow
in picoAmps. 100 V in the wrong place can do a bit of harm.

The current sensing circuit for that was an AD515 op anp integrator
with a 10pF silver-mica feedback cap. Its residual noise level was a
few hundred femtoAmps.

At those levels the error current from dielectric absorption can
appear huge, so we had W.L.Gore make us special Teflon-insulated reed
relays for the switching matrix. Even they weren't immune but the
absorption current dropped below a picoAmp within 5mS, which was
acceptable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_absorption

Simply not tightening the shelding enough raised the noise
dramatically. Without the shield it was a fine intruder detector.

Surprisingly I needed only a space frame box with wide-open sides to
fully shield it for the test and calibration fixture. The circuit
rejected 60 Hz and above very well and the seemingly gaping access
holes were too small for lower frequencies.

At a previous job I had designed and built a test station that
measured the reverse leakage of TV high voltage rectifier diodes. The
circuit forced 1 microAmp at up to 40,000V. The sample diodes measured
over 25KV at that microAmp. The current regulator was a 1 MegaWatt
(pulse) radar transmitter tube with X-Ray shielding.
jsw


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-28, Jim Wilkins wrote:

O.K. Yes, interpreted makes debugging and experimenting easier,
as long as the compiled code behaves the same as the interpreted
code. :-)


Functionally the execution appeared to be identical but of course the
timing was very different, so software-generated I2C communications
with the Device Under Test only worked properly when compiled. My
automatic timing calibration routine had a limited dynamic range that
couldn't handle both 2 GHz compiled and 75 MHz interpreted.

The target device was an early Power Over Ethernet controller that
could do some serious harm if it turned on the 48 VDC when it
shouldn't. I was skywiring those 0.5mm-pitch QFPs over the charred
crater where the engineer had burned one up.

It wasn't as bad as the Hot Swap PCI card controller whose
applications board shorted out the power supply on command. Hopefully
the IC limited the current well and fast enough to keep mobo voltages
stable. That was the most difficult circuit board outline I had to
construct, followed closely by the 3-dimensional Segway Balance Sensor
Assembly.

jsw


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?


Jim Wilkins wrote:

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...

My favorite robot was Rhoda, as played by Julie Newmar on the show
"My Living Doll".

David


She was my favorite Catwoman, too.


http://www.hulu.com/search?q=my+living+doll
--
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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 2013-07-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-28, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Windows polls them, destroying your setup.


Hmm ... no way to tell Windows to keep its hands off those
ports? Another reason not to like Windows, then. :-)


Windows periodically checks printer status with the control bits, and
has a fit when it sees some combinations of the status bits. AFAIK it
leaves the data bits alone. I wrote a program to display and control
each bit.


Can you uninstall the port from within Windows, and just let
your program handle it without interference?

Sounds like the team got the payback satisfaction, then. Were
the problems in the code a result of some limits which he put on the
team, thus making it even more appropriate that he get the
o-dark-hundred calls? :-)


A state-of-the-art semiconductor test station is a very complex and
tricky machine that the IC designers may use in ways they wouldn't
reveal to us. Like machine tools some combinations of operations will
misbehave or crash.


:-)

For example to measure the resistivity of certain IC structures you
might have to apply 100 Volts and measure the resulting current flow
in picoAmps. 100 V in the wrong place can do a bit of harm.


Understood. Many logic ICs are allergic to more than about
5.5VDC. :-) But can the people using it understand that what they did
caused the problem and look for another way to do it instead of calling
for support? (Or were they calling to find out what needed replacing
after doing that? :-)

The current sensing circuit for that was an AD515 op anp integrator
with a 10pF silver-mica feedback cap. Its residual noise level was a
few hundred femtoAmps.


Pretty tiny.

At those levels the error current from dielectric absorption can
appear huge, so we had W.L.Gore make us special Teflon-insulated reed
relays for the switching matrix. Even they weren't immune but the
absorption current dropped below a picoAmp within 5mS, which was
acceptable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_absorption


I remember as a kid playing with components removed from old
tube radios, I found that the wound paper-foil capacitors common at that
time (early 1950s when I was taking them apart, and figure them to be
perhaps 15-20 years old at that time), I could almost always get a click
when connecting something as small as 0.01 µf across headphones -- even
after leaving them shorted for a few hours.

And I remember reading about electrets (form a capacitor by
melting the dielectric between electrodes at voltage and letting it
solidify while the voltage was applied. This was used to polarize some
condenser microphones at one period -- before phantom power became
common.

Simply not tightening the shelding enough raised the noise
dramatically. Without the shield it was a fine intruder detector.


:-)

Surprisingly I needed only a space frame box with wide-open sides to
fully shield it for the test and calibration fixture. The circuit
rejected 60 Hz and above very well and the seemingly gaping access
holes were too small for lower frequencies.


Electrostatic fields only -- not electromagnetic?

At a previous job I had designed and built a test station that
measured the reverse leakage of TV high voltage rectifier diodes. The
circuit forced 1 microAmp at up to 40,000V. The sample diodes measured
over 25KV at that microAmp. The current regulator was a 1 MegaWatt
(pulse) radar transmitter tube with X-Ray shielding.


Hmm ... I remember at Transitron (early 1960s) one item on the
production line (long before computer controlled tests) was a reverse
voltage leakage test for high voltage diode assemblies. Think about the
size of a billy club made of a spiral of diodes potted in black epoxy,
and perhaps 12" long with an anode cap (like from a tube) on both ends

Current was measured with tube based OP-AMPs (Philbrick IIRC).
At the time, an OP-AMP was a black box to me -- no idea how to use it.
Now, I love them.

And the high voltage was developed by a voltage multipler
(perhaps 12-15 stage) using somewhat more reasonable size diode
assemblies.

The door was set up with a knob which you had to turn through
about 40 revolutions to open it up -- and the first few turns opened an
interlock switch and lowered a discharging bar into contact -- long
before you got enough turns to open the door. The threads were buttress
threads engaging spring wires, so you could just shove it closed quickly
-- a nod to production efficiency. :-)

The only use of computers then and there was a mainframe being
used to match forward thermal characteristics of stabistors (diodes
selected for their forward voltage characteristics, zener diodes, and the
base-emitter forward drop of a transistor -- all checked at -50C, +50C,
and +150C in silicone oils. They would test hundreds of each at a
time, punch cards for each, and feed them into the computers to select
the best match of the three for building "ref-amps" (a starting point for
a voltage regulator). The selection process was not perfect -- we got a
selected number from a bach back to test from the customer. They were
right at the three temperatures, but out of spec between them. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:
regor wrote:
I've been looking at the smaller educational robots, it looks like I could


get something functional for less money than the industrial robots, and

they
are more shipping friendly.


That's just the thing! There's no way you can do much with a Fanuc in a
residential home - it's just too darn large, heavy, needs too much power
etc. I happen to have a Scorbot ER-VII, which is the smallest you can get
that's close to an actual industrial robot, and it's about 70 pounds. I
needed a truck with a lift gate to deliver it (palleted with controller
and linear stage), paid extra for residential delivery here and still
regret I bought it. Since everything you do in training is a simulation of
sorts, there's nothing that an ER-V (only about 24 lbs) can't do that
ER-VII can. I was lucky to have found an inexpensive ER-V+ for which I
could reuse the controller and the linear stage. The ER-VII sits on the
floor, a 66lbs boat anchor. I need my son's help to even move it when it
gets in the way, a waste of money.

So, if you don't have a space with a loading dock and some sturdy benches,
400A service etc., I would not even consider buying anything that's an
actual industrial robot. It may even be useful to start with a $150
Armdroid, LabVolt1000 or a similar TeachMover - almost toys but not quite
and very easy to handle. In fact, I think that the most useful set in a
house would be still a Scorbot but the smallest ER-2U (U stands for USB
controller, very important these days). It has all the software of the
slightly larger ones, same controller as ER-IV with some extra I/Os and
it's small enough to put on the desk, play with it, then put it back on
the shelf. ER-2U goes for about $300 with controller included on eBay
these days.

Many of the jobs I see where they want you to have robotics experience
specify ABB, Fanuc, or whatever brand(s) they use. That's why I'd prefer

a
brand of robot that is in demand in industry, I know that what I would

learn
on a Scorbot would apply to other robots but employers don't seem to
understand this.


I have never met an employer who would not want to hire a tech who's ready
to go right now, on any equipment they put in front of him. Most of the
time they're not ready to pay the wages such person would require, so
usually a compromise is found somewhere in between. You have to
demonstrate that you are "teachable", and having some experience with
small robots might help.

(Disclaimer: robots are a hobby for me, I never needed to bring my
robotics lab up in an interview. But I do have a lab with the equipment
that I do work with professionally and it does help to get the
conversation going)




--
posted from
http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...ts-580710-.htm
using PolytechForum's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to
rec.crafts.metalworking and other engineering groups

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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Surprisingly I needed only a space frame box with wide-open sides
to
fully shield it for the test and calibration fixture. The circuit
rejected 60 Hz and above very well and the seemingly gaping access
holes were too small for lower frequencies.


Electrostatic fields only -- not electromagnetic?


There was no inductance sensitive to it. We all knew to minimize the
physical size of the summing junction node to avoid such parasitics.

However the circuit I built to measure the dielectric absorption
current decay rate picked up ~40KHz audio from the security sensors.
The project manager, a brilliant physicist, calculated that the outer
panels were vibrating about a micron to cause the coupling we saw. I
cured it by creasing them on a brake.

From the mistakes I've seen on commercial products it seems that PC
board layout designers who understand electronics are rare. I could do
a high-speed digital board with dramatically less noise that the usual
products of commercial PC board companies. I debugged one failing
example that had 3V of ground bounce between two points on the same
plane, because it had been notched into a star configuration that was
wrong for the 74AS logic on it.

Hmm ... I remember at Transitron (early 1960s) one item on the
production line (long before computer controlled tests) was a
reverse
voltage leakage test for high voltage diode assemblies. Think about
the
size of a billy club made of a spiral of diodes potted in black
epoxy,
and perhaps 12" long with an anode cap (like from a tube) on both
ends.


AFAICT exotica like voltage multipliers, dielectric absorption,
magnetic amplifiers and ferroresonant transformers aren't covered well
in EE courses, but must be learned through job experience. I picked up
a lot of subtleties that new EEs didn't know. One of them insisted
that an open collector transistor driven from a gate didn't need a
series base resistor because the transistor model he had learned had a
current source in the base lead. I couldn't convince him that the base
was just a diode to ground.

He didn't stay long, the rumor was that he touched a large exposed
electrolytic with 480VAC while putzing with the three phase
connections to a power supply. I was working on a machine next to it
but out sick that day, and came in to find the floor and the side of
my machine blackened from the explosion.

jsw


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Posts: 12,529
Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 06:18:01 +0000, passerby
wrote:

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:
regor wrote:
I've been looking at the smaller educational robots, it looks like I could


get something functional for less money than the industrial robots, and

they
are more shipping friendly.


That's just the thing! There's no way you can do much with a Fanuc in a
residential home - it's just too darn large, heavy, needs too much power
etc. I happen to have a Scorbot ER-VII, which is the smallest you can get
that's close to an actual industrial robot, and it's about 70 pounds. I
needed a truck with a lift gate to deliver it (palleted with controller
and linear stage), paid extra for residential delivery here and still
regret I bought it. Since everything you do in training is a simulation of
sorts, there's nothing that an ER-V (only about 24 lbs) can't do that
ER-VII can. I was lucky to have found an inexpensive ER-V+ for which I
could reuse the controller and the linear stage. The ER-VII sits on the
floor, a 66lbs boat anchor. I need my son's help to even move it when it
gets in the way, a waste of money.

So, if you don't have a space with a loading dock and some sturdy benches,
400A service etc., I would not even consider buying anything that's an
actual industrial robot. It may even be useful to start with a $150
Armdroid, LabVolt1000 or a similar TeachMover - almost toys but not quite
and very easy to handle. In fact, I think that the most useful set in a
house would be still a Scorbot but the smallest ER-2U (U stands for USB
controller, very important these days). It has all the software of the
slightly larger ones, same controller as ER-IV with some extra I/Os and
it's small enough to put on the desk, play with it, then put it back on
the shelf. ER-2U goes for about $300 with controller included on eBay
these days.

Many of the jobs I see where they want you to have robotics experience
specify ABB, Fanuc, or whatever brand(s) they use. That's why I'd prefer

a
brand of robot that is in demand in industry, I know that what I would

learn
on a Scorbot would apply to other robots but employers don't seem to
understand this.


I have never met an employer who would not want to hire a tech who's ready
to go right now, on any equipment they put in front of him. Most of the
time they're not ready to pay the wages such person would require, so
usually a compromise is found somewhere in between. You have to
demonstrate that you are "teachable", and having some experience with
small robots might help.

(Disclaimer: robots are a hobby for me, I never needed to bring my
robotics lab up in an interview. But I do have a lab with the equipment
that I do work with professionally and it does help to get the
conversation going)


Here's something that just appeared in my inbox that may be useful for
Roger, at least for him to know about:

===========================================
Yaskawa Motoman Offers STEM Platform for Education and Workforce
Development

Dayton, OH (July 2013) - Yaskawa Motoman has released a new STEM
Robotics Platform for education and workforce development. A
general-purpose platform and a welding education cell are available.

The new STEM Robotics Platform offers a selection of pre-engineered
robotic solutions that meet the requirements of secondary educational
programs focused on advanced manufacturing and robotics.
The standard configurations and available options provide a package of
leading technologies typically encountered in manufacturing
environments, including components provided by the Yaskawa Motoman
Education Consortium (YMEC). Educators can purchase a complete package
or components to build a custom education system that best fits
planned course work and classroom layout.

"We developed the STEM Robotics Platform to provide community
colleges, vocational schools and technical colleges with the best
possible equipment for teaching industrial robotics," said Erik
Nieves, technology director. "Students are excited about robotics. The
success of high school robot competitions like FIRST® and Vex make
students enthusiastic about robot programming, and each year, growing
numbers are looking for opportunities to learn more."

Instructors want course work to be relevant and directly applicable to
industry. The best colleges support their local community by preparing
students to be successful on Day 1 of their careers as technicians and
engineers in factories and other industries. To learn more about
Robotics for Education and Workforce Development, visit
stem.motoman.com.

Additional education tools are offered, including the Simple Education
System (SES) and customizable training programs. SES is a PC-based
robot simulator that allows customers to learn to operate and program
Motoman® robots in the virtual world while keeping their actual robots
in production.

About Yaskawa Motoman

Founded in 1989, the Motomon of Yaskawa Aman Robotics Divisierica,
Inc. is a leading robotics company in the Americas. With over 270,000
Motoman® robots installed globally, Yaskawa provides automation
products and solutions for virtually every industry and robotic
application; including arc welding, assembly, coating, dispensing,
material handling, material cutting, material removal, packaging,
palletizing and spot welding. For more information please visit our
website at www.motoman.com or call 937.847.6200.

============================================

--
Ed Huntress

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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

replying to Ed Huntress , passerby wrote:
huntres23 wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 06:18:01 +0000, passerby
Here's something that just appeared in my inbox that may be useful for
Roger, at least for him to know about:
===========================================
Yaskawa Motoman Offers STEM Platform for Education and Workforce
Development
Dayton, OH (July 2013) - Yaskawa Motoman has released a new STEM
Robotics Platform for education and workforce development. A
general-purpose platform and a welding education cell are available.
...
Instructors want course work to be relevant and directly applicable to
industry. The best colleges support their local community by preparing
students to be successful on Day 1 of their careers as technicians and
engineers in factories and other industries. To learn more about
Robotics for Education and Workforce Development, visit
stem.motoman.com.





Thanks for the link, Ed. There is a video demonstration of the 5kg payload
version on that page: http://youtu.be/mzazFNdJ5pM
What we are looking at is probably a $10,000+ (and I may actually be
low-balling it by at least one zero) piece of gear. Good for a university
but tough to swallow for an individual. He does mention there's also a
smaller 2 kg robot but still...

Perhaps it's just been my experience looking for these decommissioned
educational robots on eBay but I balked at his phrase "... for a school
that is looking to add robotics curriculum ..." - from the looks of it in
the last decade all I've seen is them dropping the "robotics curriculum"
that was actually established in the late 80s early 90s and by now have
noone to actually teach it.

--
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using PolytechForum's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to
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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 2013-07-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Surprisingly I needed only a space frame box with wide-open sides
to
fully shield it for the test and calibration fixture. The circuit
rejected 60 Hz and above very well and the seemingly gaping access
holes were too small for lower frequencies.


Electrostatic fields only -- not electromagnetic?


There was no inductance sensitive to it. We all knew to minimize the
physical size of the summing junction node to avoid such parasitics.


O.K.

However the circuit I built to measure the dielectric absorption
current decay rate picked up ~40KHz audio from the security sensors.
The project manager, a brilliant physicist, calculated that the outer
panels were vibrating about a micron to cause the coupling we saw. I
cured it by creasing them on a brake.


Simple cure -- if you know to apply it.

From the mistakes I've seen on commercial products it seems that PC
board layout designers who understand electronics are rare. I could do
a high-speed digital board with dramatically less noise that the usual
products of commercial PC board companies. I debugged one failing
example that had 3V of ground bounce between two points on the same
plane, because it had been notched into a star configuration that was
wrong for the 74AS logic on it.


:-)

Hmm ... I remember at Transitron (early 1960s) one item on the
production line (long before computer controlled tests) was a
reverse
voltage leakage test for high voltage diode assemblies. Think about
the
size of a billy club made of a spiral of diodes potted in black
epoxy,
and perhaps 12" long with an anode cap (like from a tube) on both
ends.


AFAICT exotica like voltage multipliers, dielectric absorption,
magnetic amplifiers and ferroresonant transformers aren't covered well
in EE courses, but must be learned through job experience.


While working for Night Vision Labs (US Army lab) I got lots of
experience with multipliers. Little oscillators run from mercury cells
(now unobtainum) produced about 1 KV P-P, and went through a large
number of stages to produce up to 15 KV for the small ones, and 45 KV
for the large ones -- to run cascaded image intensifier tubes. All
potted in about a 120 degree segment of a thick-walled cylinder with
taps out one long edge to feed the voltages to the intensifiers.

Then add the high-voltage pulse generators intended to turn the
intensifiers on and off to allow selecting distance with a pulsed NdYAG
laser as an illuminator. :-)

I picked up
a lot of subtleties that new EEs didn't know. One of them insisted
that an open collector transistor driven from a gate didn't need a
series base resistor because the transistor model he had learned had a
current source in the base lead. I couldn't convince him that the base
was just a diode to ground.


Ouch! All models and no real life experience. How many did he
fry? :-) Even a SPICE model of the circuit should tell him how wrong he
was, if he bothered to read the currents -- even though the SPICE
models for transistors don't bother to model cooked junctions or
vaporized bonding wires. :-)

He didn't stay long, the rumor was that he touched a large exposed
electrolytic with 480VAC while putzing with the three phase
connections to a power supply. I was working on a machine next to it
but out sick that day, and came in to find the floor and the side of
my machine blackened from the explosion.


Ouch! Good day to be out sick or otherwise out of range.

Touched it with *what*? Something metal to vaporize -- or was
the black from carbonized employee?

Reminds me of a story from a friend who worked for AT&T Long
Lines. One new employee was given the job of opening each of the knife
switches (while power was being supplied from the other battery bank)
and greasing the mating surfaces, and then re-engaging them.

He was not very strong (at least not strong enough), and those
knife switches had a *lot* of grip, so he got a crowbar, and used it to
pry open the switches by the insulating crossbar which joined the
switches for both sides of the battery (and the handle, of course).
Only -- when the switch let go, he slipped, and one end touched the hot
side fo the switch, and the other end hit the metal doors on the racks
behind him. Well ... given the size of the battery banks, it did not
take long at all for it to slice through the door, spraying molten steel
all around.

When he got out of the hospital, he was allowed to do nothing
but push a broom until he got the idea and quit.

We never worked with *that* much power -- most things were man
portable -- but we did have a 28V lead-acid storage battery for testing
a DC-powered laser pump, and one of the other employees came back into
the room carrying it and commenting on how good a battery it was. He
had taken it out to start his car because the battery had died from the
cold and age. He was impressed with how fast it cranked the engine. (I
asked him if he had turned on any lights while it was connected, and if
so, he should check to see whether they were burned out. he had not
noticed the twelve filler caps on it instead of the usual six -- or did
not realize the significance. At least this was before computers in
control of the car's electronics. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"passerby" wrote in message
ups.com...

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:

snip

I have never met an employer who would not want to hire a tech who's ready
to go right now, on any equipment they put in front of him. Most of the
time they're not ready to pay the wages such person would require, so
usually a compromise is found somewhere in between. You have to
demonstrate that you are "teachable", and having some experience with
small robots might help.
(Disclaimer: robots are a hobby for me, I never needed to bring my
robotics lab up in an interview. But I do have a lab with the equipment
that I do work with professionally and it does help to get the
conversation going)
--
posted from
http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...ts-580710-.htm


A Scorbot III with controller came up on eBay with a reasonable "Buy it now"
so I bought it. The robot should be on the way soon, I have a tracking
number but no tracking information yet. I tried out the software in a
laptop with Windows XP, it seems to run fine. I found a serial port monitor
program that lets me know the communications on the serial port so I hope to
reverse engineer the PC commands to the controller. My idea is to be able
to write programs and run them on the PC, the PC would then send move
commands to the Scorbot, read I/O, etc. So the program would actually be
running in the PC, allowing for very large programs, image processing, and
so forth. If this works out, I can try to find information on ABB and Fanuc
programming and write a program to execute files written for different makes
of robots. I should be able to do get it to work with G-Code too, at least
the basic moves, G00, 01, 02, 03.

I have seen some Scorbot 4pc's for sale on eBay but so far none come with
the ISA controller card. I don't know the detail about the drive yet but it
might be compatible with some of the hardware available for LinuxCNC. I saw
other brands of educational robot arms on eBay but so far I have been able
to find the most information on the Scorbot's. I like the Amatrol Pegasus,
roller chain drive looks heavy duty, but from what I hear, Amatrol isn't
very helpful to hobbyists.

RogerN


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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:
regor wrote:
A Scorbot III with controller came up on eBay with a reasonable "Buy it

now"
so I bought it.


Welcome to the wonderful world of Scorbotics!

Be sure to sign up for
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ScorbotUserGroup/ if you haven't
already. Some manuals and old DOS software are here
http://elabz.com/resources/robotics-resources/ I also tried using FreeDOS
instead of XP - works like a champ on FreeDOS so no need to use MS,
especially if you have LinuxCNC in sights. http://www.freedos.org/


The robot should be on the way soon, I have a tracking
number but no tracking information yet. I tried out the software in a
laptop with Windows XP, it seems to run fine.


When it comes, calibrate it first. ERIII are the oldest (late 80s - early
90s) and most of the time come with cams out of whack. Petals of the
optical encoders are often broken, too. I have a few spares in case you
need it.


I found a serial port monitor
program that lets me know the communications on the serial port so I hope

to
reverse engineer the PC commands to the controller.



There is really no need to reverse engineer anything with an ERIII. The
box received commands in text mode right through that serial. All the
commands are described in the manual, at least in the 6th edition I've got
from elabz.com, it's all there. If you really wanted to ditch Scorbase
software, you'll just have to make sure that yours produces the same
commands and sends over serial.



My idea is to be able
to write programs and run them on the PC, the PC would then send move
commands to the Scorbot, read I/O, etc. So the program would actually be
running in the PC, allowing for very large programs, image processing, and


so forth. If this works out, I can try to find information on ABB and

Fanuc
programming and write a program to execute files written for different

makes
of robots. I should be able to do get it to work with G-Code too, at

least
the basic moves, G00, 01, 02, 03.



ERIII uses DC servo motors with two channel quadrature output encoders
with three interrupter petals, so it's only 12TPR (on a 65.5:1 gearbox,
and two of the motors on 128:1 if memory serves). It's not a speedy robot,
in theory you can even feed that signal right back to LinuxCNC via
Parallel port (you will have to provide H-Bridge and PWM for speed
control). I've been meaning to mess with that for years now, always
putting off for one reason or another ...


I have seen some Scorbot 4pc's for sale on eBay but so far none come with
the ISA controller card. I don't know the detail about the drive yet but

it
might be compatible with some of the hardware available for LinuxCNC. I

saw
other brands of educational robot arms on eBay but so far I have been able


to find the most information on the Scorbot's.


Don't get ER4PC robot unless you can also find an ER4U Scorpower (the
control box has it's own name) and ditch the PC Scorpower. The robot
itself is exactly the same, will work with USB control box. The PC servo
card that PC version needs is a real PITA. Intelitek still sells it for
$600 (and I believe it's refurbished) but it requires a computer with full
length AT ISA bus - I haven't seen a monster like this in 15 years, will
be a whole project in and of itself just to find a PC to stick it into.

I like the Amatrol Pegasus,
roller chain drive looks heavy duty, but from what I hear, Amatrol isn't
very helpful to hobbyists.


I love Pegasus too, maybe will get one at some point. The control
principals of almost all of the educational robots of this size designed
in the golden era of educational robotics (mid 80s through mid 90s) -
Scorbot, LabVolt2000, Mentor, Pegasus, Rhino, etc. - are the same - geared
DC motors with optical encoders, so it it possible to have them all work
(or at least make them move) despite the fact that people usually throw
controller boxes away. They resemble old dilapidated PCs too much...


Anyway, thanks for forcing my trip down the memory lane, good luck with
your ERIII. Post here or in the robotics groups (here or Yahoo) if you
need help.




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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"passerby" wrote in message
roups.com...

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:
regor wrote:

snip

to find the most information on the Scorbot's.


Don't get ER4PC robot unless you can also find an ER4U Scorpower (the
control box has it's own name) and ditch the PC Scorpower. The robot
itself is exactly the same, will work with USB control box. The PC servo
card that PC version needs is a real PITA. Intelitek still sells it for
$600 (and I believe it's refurbished) but it requires a computer with full
length AT ISA bus - I haven't seen a monster like this in 15 years, will
be a whole project in and of itself just to find a PC to stick it into.

snip


I was thinking of using the 4pc controller as an amplifier box and using
LinuxCNC as the controller to provide PWM to the 4pc controller. I have
used the Mesa anything I/O boards with LinuxCNC and it has encoder inputs
and PWM outputs. I don't know if the 4PC control takes pwm plus direction
or exactly what. I thought I could get the Mesa board to replace the PC
board for the ER4PC controller, I found the 62 pin high density Sub-D
connectors at Digi-Key.

Thanks for the info and links, I'll see if I can send ascii commands through
RS-232 to the controller.

RogerN



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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

replying to RogerN , passerby wrote:
regor wrote:

snip
I was thinking of using the 4pc controller as an amplifier box and using
LinuxCNC as the controller to provide PWM to the 4pc controller.


That 4PC controller is essentially a glorified power supply that simply
passes the signals from encoders over to the PC Servo card and receives
PWM for each motor back. There is also a serial line to the teach pendant
that sort of simply passes through. 4U controller looks the same but the
brains have been moved from the PC Servo card into the controller, so it's
an actual controller together with a power supply, in one box.

I have
used the Mesa anything I/O boards with LinuxCNC and it has encoder inputs
and PWM outputs. I don't know if the 4PC control takes pwm plus direction


or exactly what. I thought I could get the Mesa board to replace the PC
board for the ER4PC controller, I found the 62 pin high density Sub-D
connectors at Digi-Key.


I have some kind of unverified pinout for that 62-pin cable from a USC
Wiki page for the university's robotics lab that now requires a user name
for some reason. I'd be happy to share although it looks suspicious
because I cannot find directions (or polarities) identified anywhere and
motor control lines are called "Axis 1 Speed" (PWM?) - only one pin per
motor. How would it know direction then is a question. Almost all of the
other lines are taken by the encoders (there's 6 on the robot itself and 2
more for external axes like linear stage and pickup rotary table) or not
connected (or marked as +5V which is also suspect, you would think they'd
be grounded instead).





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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:

He didn't stay long, the rumor was that he touched a large exposed
electrolytic with 480VAC while putzing with the three phase
connections to a power supply. I was working on a machine next to
it
but out sick that day, and came in to find the floor and the side
of
my machine blackened from the explosion.


Ouch! Good day to be out sick or otherwise out of range.

Touched it with *what*? Something metal to vaporize -- or was
the black from carbonized employee?


The story I heard was that he and another newbie engineer were
attempting to find the proper phase rotation by touching the live 480V
cables to the input terminals while squatting on the floor, and one
lost his balance. I don't remember who said that or may have seen it
happen. Luckily it wasn't me, though I probably would have found a
reason to be on the far side of my machine or taken a break.

Another time a tech was checking a faulty SCR trigger circuit on the
machine beside mine, grounded the scope probe to the SCR cathode and
turned on power. The probe cable exploded in midair before the breaker
could trip. Fortunately I wasn't injured and his weren't serious.

jsw





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Default Learning industrial robotics, any favorite robots?

On 2013-07-30, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:

He didn't stay long, the rumor was that he touched a large exposed


[ ... ]

my machine blackened from the explosion.


Ouch! Good day to be out sick or otherwise out of range.

Touched it with *what*? Something metal to vaporize -- or was
the black from carbonized employee?


The story I heard was that he and another newbie engineer were
attempting to find the proper phase rotation by touching the live 480V
cables to the input terminals while squatting on the floor, and one
lost his balance.


Ouch! Really asking for trouble.

I don't remember who said that or may have seen it
happen. Luckily it wasn't me, though I probably would have found a
reason to be on the far side of my machine or taken a break.

Another time a tech was checking a faulty SCR trigger circuit on the
machine beside mine, grounded the scope probe to the SCR cathode and
turned on power. The probe cable exploded in midair before the breaker
could trip. Fortunately I wasn't injured and his weren't serious.


An argument for a differential plugin for the 'scope -- and the
intelligence to know that it was needed. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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