On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

We agree, then. I never said I thought the autoloader was gas
operated, as some rifles are.


On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.


--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

On 7/27/2013 4:57 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/27/2013 12:50 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/27/2013 9:25 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/27/2013 1:41 AM, George Plimpton wrote:
tommy boy faggot.


Aah, NOW I see...you only WISH I was a fag!

You *are* a squat-to-**** faggot, tommy boy. And the owner of a shabby
little "business" that isn't as good as when you inherited it.



I hear there is a cure for your Coprophagia.

You don't even know what that word means. You used it inappropriately.

There's no cure for your terminal stupidity and bad character.

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 2:41 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

Gunner



Off the top of my head, I can't think of any revolver round that is high
pressure. Are there any? Maybe the new .32 magnums?

The magnums generally produce a little higher pressure than the latest
auto cartridges -- typically 35,000 psi to 40,000 psi (not CUP) SAAMI
standards.

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/27/2013 9:47 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 2:41 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

Gunner



Off the top of my head, I can't think of any revolver round that is high
pressure. Are there any? Maybe the new .32 magnums?

The magnums generally produce a little higher pressure than the latest
auto cartridges -- typically 35,000 psi to 40,000 psi (not CUP) SAAMI
standards.


Even they are not considered "High Pressure", a lot of auto-loader
cartridges are HP, most common is 9mm Parabellum. I'll check my books
later.

On 7/27/2013 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

We agree, then. I never said I thought the autoloader was gas
operated, as some rifles are.


On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.


--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold



I wonder how they test that? Usually, pressures are tested in a device
that's more a fixture than a firearm. I'd think autos lose far more
power than revolvers, especially blow-backs.

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 2:41 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

Gunner



Off the top of my head, I can't think of any revolver round that is high
pressure. Are there any? Maybe the new .32 magnums?

Define "high pressure"

41 Mag can go to 36,000 psi
357 Max can go to 40k
357 Mag can go to 36k
38 Super can go to 36k

the 9mm is 36k, the 32 H&R is only at 21k
\
The 44 Magnum is 36k

All of which are available in revolvers.

Given that many cartridges such as the 7x57 Mauser, 303 Brit, etc etc
are at 45K.....the 3006 at 50l,. the 308 at 62k.... the 300 Win mag
is at 60k, the 7 Mag is at 60-65k....shrug

As for self loaders...we have the above 38 Super at 36, the 40 AE at
40, the 45 Wildey at 40....shrug Generally Pistol but can be found in
revolvers. Hell the 50 AE is only 36k, lower than a Plus P 9mm.

My single shot pistols..such as the TC...357 Herret at 48k, the 223 at
53k, the 7 TCU at 47k etc etc

So what is "high pressure"? My Hot Street Loads (tm) for my daily
carry 1911 are pumping out at 20k..and a factory +P can be at 23k

http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_units_of_pressure

Gunner





--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:06:15 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

We agree, then. I never said I thought the autoloader was gas
operated, as some rifles are.


On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.

Actually...there are few "mechanical losses" in a self loader, recoil
operated weapon. Recoil is simply used in a more complex fashion in a
self loader. Self loaders can be considered more complex (they are)
and are more along the lines of Rube Goldberg devices in operation,
compared to revolvers.

Gunner

--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:42:01 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

We agree, then. I never said I thought the autoloader was gas
operated, as some rifles are.


On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.


--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold



I wonder how they test that? Usually, pressures are tested in a device
that's more a fixture than a firearm. I'd think autos lose far more
power than revolvers, especially blow-backs.

You both would be right if they were Gas Operated..but they are Recoil
Operated.

A different family of physics...shrug


Gunner

--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:20:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:42:01 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

We agree, then. I never said I thought the autoloader was gas
operated, as some rifles are.


On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.


--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold



I wonder how they test that? Usually, pressures are tested in a device
that's more a fixture than a firearm. I'd think autos lose far more
power than revolvers, especially blow-backs.

You both would be right if they were Gas Operated..but they are Recoil
Operated.

A different family of physics...shrug


Gunner

And, as a general statement, the bullet is out of the barrel of a
locked breach auto before the slide has moved more then about an
eighth of an inch.

http://lrdg.hegewisch.net/pistols.html
also states that muzzle velocity of the M1917 revolvers that were
manufactured to fire the 45 ACP cartridge was lower then the 1911 Colt
although the revolver had a slightly longer barrel.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/28/2013 12:37 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 2:41 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

Gunner



Off the top of my head, I can't think of any revolver round that is high
pressure. Are there any? Maybe the new .32 magnums?

Define "high pressure"

41 Mag can go to 36,000 psi
357 Max can go to 40k
357 Mag can go to 36k
38 Super can go to 36k

the 9mm is 36k, the 32 H&R is only at 21k
\
The 44 Magnum is 36k

All of which are available in revolvers.

Given that many cartridges such as the 7x57 Mauser, 303 Brit, etc etc
are at 45K.....the 3006 at 50l,. the 308 at 62k.... the 300 Win mag
is at 60k, the 7 Mag is at 60-65k....shrug

As for self loaders...we have the above 38 Super at 36, the 40 AE at
40, the 45 Wildey at 40....shrug Generally Pistol but can be found in
revolvers. Hell the 50 AE is only 36k, lower than a Plus P 9mm.

My single shot pistols..such as the TC...357 Herret at 48k, the 223 at
53k, the 7 TCU at 47k etc etc

So what is "high pressure"? My Hot Street Loads (tm) for my daily
carry 1911 are pumping out at 20k..and a factory +P can be at 23k

http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_units_of_pressure

Gunner



I think a lot of the Autos were designed to be HP due to small capacity
while .38 special was originally a black powder cartridge with the
appropriate capacity. I see I have more reading to do, I DO find the
history of cartridges fascinating. Each had a special job to do or a
performance goal to reach. It seems nobody developed a cartridge purely
for esthetics!

On 7/28/2013 9:07 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:20:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:42:01 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

We agree, then. I never said I thought the autoloader was gas
operated, as some rifles are.


On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.


--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold



I wonder how they test that? Usually, pressures are tested in a device
that's more a fixture than a firearm. I'd think autos lose far more
power than revolvers, especially blow-backs.

You both would be right if they were Gas Operated..but they are Recoil
Operated.

A different family of physics...shrug


Gunner

And, as a general statement, the bullet is out of the barrel of a
locked breach auto before the slide has moved more then about an
eighth of an inch.

http://lrdg.hegewisch.net/pistols.html
also states that muzzle velocity of the M1917 revolvers that were
manufactured to fire the 45 ACP cartridge was lower then the 1911 Colt
although the revolver had a slightly longer barrel.

--
Cheers,

John B.


Who da thunk?

On 7/28/2013 1:19 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:06:15 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:13:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A "Silencer that works on a 4,000 FPS bullet?

--
Cheers,

John B.



Sure, It's the size of a truck muffler though. And, no help for the
"crack".

ah...actually..its no bigger than about 1.75 in diameter and about 12"
long. All a silencer does is slow down the noise as the powder
pressure wave exits the barrel. A 223 for example..doesnt have a real
big bubble of gas when it exits the barrel. Just a high pressure one

And at 50 yrds..there isnt much of a crack. However there is
significant noise as the targets melon explodes. Like dropping a
watermellon from a 3rd story window. But oddly enough...it doesnt
echo much.

science is often wierd.

Go on YouTube and watch the size of the bubble as they shoot guns
underwater. The bubble of gas is surprisingly small.

Groovy, mon. Wow, the bypass from a wheel gun v. auto is amazing.
Half the velocity is lost, isn't it?

Not half..perhaps 5% at most. Vortex physics are beyond
me...but...thats the estimate.

In that case, it must be the losses in activating the slide which make
up the difference. The gas bubble at the barrel/cylinder was equal to
that at the muzzle on the revolver.

No..thats "recoil" operated , with very few self loading pistols being
gas operated.

We agree, then. I never said I thought the autoloader was gas
operated, as some rifles are.


On the Dan Wesson revolvers..where you could adjust the barrel gap..it
didnt make a big deal of difference...neasured in FPS..its
surprisingly small.

I don't have any experience with reloading handgun ammo, but do
reloaders use faster-burning and/or more powerful powder for wheel
ammo than that which is made for autos?

Nope. G

Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.

Actually...there are few "mechanical losses" in a self loader, recoil
operated weapon. Recoil is simply used in a more complex fashion in a
self loader. Self loaders can be considered more complex (they are)
and are more along the lines of Rube Goldberg devices in operation,
compared to revolvers.

Gunner


Like a Luger, the epitome of Rube Goldberg. More a work of art.

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:19:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Actually...there are few "mechanical losses" in a self loader, recoil
operated weapon. Recoil is simply used in a more complex fashion in a
self loader. Self loaders can be considered more complex (they are)
and are more along the lines of Rube Goldberg devices in operation,
compared to revolvers.

Yabbut, they're so darned dependable, most of us are happier keeping
the extra 5-11 rounds with us when carrying.

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:20:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:42:01 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/27/2013 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:41:35 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:15:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Gunner said:
Well..thats not completely true, but largely similar or the same
powders are used in both revolvers and self loaders.

OK, so the mechanical losses of operating the slide roughly equal the
loss of gases in the revolver, giving them very similar bullet
velocities.


I wonder how they test that? Usually, pressures are tested in a device
that's more a fixture than a firearm. I'd think autos lose far more
power than revolvers, especially blow-backs.

(Even after seeing the visuals of that underwater test, Tawm?)


You both would be right if they were Gas Operated..but they are Recoil
Operated.

If the same bullet is fired in both styles of gun, and the muzzle
velocity is within 5%, it means that the auto-loading losses damnear
equal the gaseous losses in the pistol, efficiency-wise. +-5%, right?
(depending on which style's bullet is faster. My guess: the auto,
since the lighter bullet should be down and out the muzzle prior to
the case being ejected.)
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtop...28244&start=15


A different family of physics...shrug

Yes, for specific measurements, but the answer came across, in
general. I guess you have to also include timing for the auto because
most of the losses happen as, if not after, le boolie is downrange.

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

snip drug addled babble about Georgie trying to get a job


Yawn...Georgie, I'm SO offended! I see you have to redirect responses.
Typical Coprophagous, basement dwelling, toothless, friendless,
druggie. How long did it take you to compose your little tirade insult?
Did you have to Google stuff? Were your hands shaking while you
typed? Again, any employer wouldn't like an employee so easily
manipulated, and BOY are you easy! I know I wouldn't hire you and I
hire just about anybody.

See ya' real soon, keep em' commin! Show us all how smart you are!
OBTH, you were going to tell us of one of your original thoughts.
(I thought not)

On 7/25/2013 12:05 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/25/2013 6:10 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/24/2013 11:47 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:18:16 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/24/2013 3:47 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 15:06:48 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:



On 7/23/2013 6:41 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:34:58 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:



On 7/23/2013 2:06 PM, Pierre Laporte, Minister of Unemployment and

Assimilation wrote:

In article

Media Madders.Lie wrote:



The shooting of Trayvon might never have happened if school
officials

in Miami-Dade County had not instituted a fraudulent policy of

treating Crimes as 'School Disciplinary Infractions'.
Revelations that

emerged from an Internal Affairs investigation explain why
Martin was

not arrested when caught at school with stolen jewelry and with

marijuana. Instead, the typical gangsta wannabe was just
suspended

from school, the last time just days before he was shot while

attacking George Zimmerman.

Trayvon Martin was not from Sanford, the town north of Orlando
where

he was shot in 2012 and where a Jury Acquitted Zimmerman of
murder

charges. Martin was from Miami Gardens, over 200 miles away,
and had

come to Sanford to hang out with one of his babydaddy's 'hoes
Brandy

Green at her crib in the community where Zimmerman was in
charge of

the Neighborhood Watch. Trayvon was staying with Green after he
had

been suspended for the 2nd time in 6 months from Krop High
School in

Miami-Dade County, where his daddy, Tracy Martin, and mammy,
Sybrina

Fulton, lived.

Both of Trayvon's disciplinary suspensions at Krop High involved

Crimes that should have led to his prosecution. However, Chief
Charles

Hurley of the Miami-Dade School Police Department (MDSPD) had

implemented a cover-up policy that reduced the number of Criminal

Reports, manipulating statistics to create the false appearance
of a

reduction in crime within his school system. Less than two weeks

before Trayvon's death, the school system commended Chief
Hurley for

"decreasing school-related juvenile delinquency by an amazing
60% for

the last six months of 2011." What was actually happening was
that

Crimes were not being reported, but instead mischaracterized as

'Disciplinary Infractions'.

After video surveillance cameras caught Trayvon spraying
graffiti,

MDSPD Office Darryl Dunn searched his backpack, looking for the

markers he was using. Officer Dunn found 12 pieces of women's
jewelry

and a man's watch, along with a heavy flathead screwdriver the
officer

described as a "burglary tool." The jewelry and watch, which
Martin

claimed he had gotten from a friend he refused to name, matched a

description of items stolen during the October 2011 home
robbery of a

house on 204th Terrace, about a half-mile from the school.
However,

because of Chief Hurley's scheme "to lower the Arrest Rates,"
as a

MDSPD sergeant revealed during an internal investigation, the
stolen

jewelry in Trayvon's possession was instead only listed as "found

property" and was never reported to Miami-Dade Police who were

investigating the robberies. Similarly, in February 2012 when
an MDSPD

officer caught Trayvon with a plastic bag containing
marijuana, as

well as a marijuana pipe, this was not treated as a crime, and
instead

he was merely suspended from class.

These Crimes should have put Trayvon Martin into the custody of
the

Justice System. However, because of Chief Hurley's tricky
scheme to

spin the school Crime Statistics - according to sworn testimony,

officers were "basically told to lie and falsify" reports -
Trayvon

wasn't arrested. If he had been arrested, he might never have
been

prowling around in Sanford after scoring the fixings for a
'Street

Drug' (promethazine/codeine cough syrup, Soda & Skittles) the
night of

his fateful encounter with Zimmerman.

In fact, the reason Zimmerman was suspicious of the hooded figure

skulking around the townhouse community the night of the
February 2012

shooting was that there had been a rash of burglaries in the

neighborhood since Trayvon had arrived so he called the Police.

As for Chief Hurley's scam, it was the controversy over Trayvon's

death that accidentally exposed it. In March 2012, the Miami
Herald

reported on Trayvon's criminal activities at Krop High. Chief
Hurley

then launched the Internal Affairs Investigation in an attempt
to find

out who had leaked information to reporters. During the course
of the

IA Investigation, MDSPD officers and supervisors desclosed Chief

Hurley's policy of covering up Crimes by students. Chief Hurley
was

subsequently accused of Sexually Harassing two female
subordinates. He

resigned in disgrace in February, about a year after Trayvon
Martin's

death.



Hurley was fond of black pussy, see Deanna Fox-Williams, 2nd

from right.



http://theconservativetreehouse.file...m/2012/12/miam

i-dade-schools-police-department.jpg?w=640&h=426



Also, Yewande Gibson.



http://media.nbcmiami.com/images/654...nde-Gibson.jpg







In other words, the boy had a bright future in the Democratic Party

Leadership or as a Reverend in the race-baiting business.



One lesson from this is never to carry a straight-bladed screwdriver

on your person. Another is that we should prepare prisons for
half of

the young people in the US (and quite a few older people) because

they've smoked marijuana, and should be treated as criminals.





No, just the slime-balls on drugs that have stolen jewelry on them
and

get caught casing YOUR neighborhood.



Aha! So, Zimmerman knew about the jewelry, and that it was stolen,

before he shot Martin? And he was casing the neighborhood -- even

though Martin was headed back to his dad's apartment? Right....



Why didn't he tell the cops? According to the rightard story that's

been floating around here, the cops recognized the jewelry, that it

came from a house burglary, and that Martin had it in his possession,

but they didn't bother to investigate it because they didn't want to

mess up their arrest statistics.



After that fairy tale, I don't believe much of anything said about

this case.







The "innocent little boy" was casing houses in Zimmerman's neighborhood

Prove it.


where Zimmerman was on the neighborhood watch...most likely started due

to Martin's crime spree. I would have had a rifle and shot the

criminal, multiple times from at at least 50 yards after witnessing him

case houses.

And you'd be doing life in prison.



Silenced rifle, sabot round. And, just how would I get arrested?

Why don't you **** off now, little tommy? You wouldn't do any of that.
You don't have the balls.

You're a gutless lying coward. You cower in abject terror all the time,
just like gummer and scooter. You gutless ****s aren't tough, and never
had any hope of being tough.


To bad about your Coprophagia. I'll send you dinner! What shall I eat
first for you?

On 7/29/2013 3:50 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/25/2013 12:05 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/25/2013 6:10 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/24/2013 11:47 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:18:16 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/24/2013 3:47 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 15:06:48 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:



On 7/23/2013 6:41 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:34:58 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:



On 7/23/2013 2:06 PM, Pierre Laporte, Minister of Unemployment and

Assimilation wrote:

In article

Media Madders.Lie wrote:



The shooting of Trayvon might never have happened if school
officials

in Miami-Dade County had not instituted a fraudulent policy of

treating Crimes as 'School Disciplinary Infractions'.
Revelations that

emerged from an Internal Affairs investigation explain why
Martin was

not arrested when caught at school with stolen jewelry and with

marijuana. Instead, the typical gangsta wannabe was just
suspended

from school, the last time just days before he was shot while

attacking George Zimmerman.

Trayvon Martin was not from Sanford, the town north of Orlando
where

he was shot in 2012 and where a Jury Acquitted Zimmerman of
murder

charges. Martin was from Miami Gardens, over 200 miles away,
and had

come to Sanford to hang out with one of his babydaddy's 'hoes
Brandy

Green at her crib in the community where Zimmerman was in
charge of

the Neighborhood Watch. Trayvon was staying with Green after he
had

been suspended for the 2nd time in 6 months from Krop High
School in

Miami-Dade County, where his daddy, Tracy Martin, and mammy,
Sybrina

Fulton, lived.

Both of Trayvon's disciplinary suspensions at Krop High involved

Crimes that should have led to his prosecution. However, Chief
Charles

Hurley of the Miami-Dade School Police Department (MDSPD) had

implemented a cover-up policy that reduced the number of
Criminal

Reports, manipulating statistics to create the false appearance
of a

reduction in crime within his school system. Less than two weeks

before Trayvon's death, the school system commended Chief
Hurley for

"decreasing school-related juvenile delinquency by an amazing
60% for

the last six months of 2011." What was actually happening was
that

Crimes were not being reported, but instead mischaracterized as

'Disciplinary Infractions'.

After video surveillance cameras caught Trayvon spraying
graffiti,

MDSPD Office Darryl Dunn searched his backpack, looking for the

markers he was using. Officer Dunn found 12 pieces of women's
jewelry

and a man's watch, along with a heavy flathead screwdriver the
officer

described as a "burglary tool." The jewelry and watch, which
Martin

claimed he had gotten from a friend he refused to name,
matched a

description of items stolen during the October 2011 home
robbery of a

house on 204th Terrace, about a half-mile from the school.
However,

because of Chief Hurley's scheme "to lower the Arrest Rates,"
as a

MDSPD sergeant revealed during an internal investigation, the
stolen

jewelry in Trayvon's possession was instead only listed as
"found

property" and was never reported to Miami-Dade Police who were

investigating the robberies. Similarly, in February 2012 when
an MDSPD

officer caught Trayvon with a plastic bag containing
marijuana, as

well as a marijuana pipe, this was not treated as a crime, and
instead

he was merely suspended from class.

These Crimes should have put Trayvon Martin into the custody of
the

Justice System. However, because of Chief Hurley's tricky
scheme to

spin the school Crime Statistics - according to sworn testimony,

officers were "basically told to lie and falsify" reports -
Trayvon

wasn't arrested. If he had been arrested, he might never have
been

prowling around in Sanford after scoring the fixings for a
'Street

Drug' (promethazine/codeine cough syrup, Soda & Skittles) the
night of

his fateful encounter with Zimmerman.

In fact, the reason Zimmerman was suspicious of the hooded
figure

skulking around the townhouse community the night of the
February 2012

shooting was that there had been a rash of burglaries in the

neighborhood since Trayvon had arrived so he called the Police.

As for Chief Hurley's scam, it was the controversy over
Trayvon's

death that accidentally exposed it. In March 2012, the Miami
Herald

reported on Trayvon's criminal activities at Krop High. Chief
Hurley

then launched the Internal Affairs Investigation in an attempt
to find

out who had leaked information to reporters. During the course
of the

IA Investigation, MDSPD officers and supervisors desclosed Chief

Hurley's policy of covering up Crimes by students. Chief Hurley
was

subsequently accused of Sexually Harassing two female
subordinates. He

resigned in disgrace in February, about a year after Trayvon
Martin's

death.



Hurley was fond of black pussy, see Deanna Fox-Williams, 2nd

from right.



http://theconservativetreehouse.file...m/2012/12/miam

i-dade-schools-police-department.jpg?w=640&h=426



Also, Yewande Gibson.



http://media.nbcmiami.com/images/654...nde-Gibson.jpg







In other words, the boy had a bright future in the Democratic
Party

Leadership or as a Reverend in the race-baiting business.



One lesson from this is never to carry a straight-bladed
screwdriver

on your person. Another is that we should prepare prisons for
half of

the young people in the US (and quite a few older people) because

they've smoked marijuana, and should be treated as criminals.





No, just the slime-balls on drugs that have stolen jewelry on them
and

get caught casing YOUR neighborhood.



Aha! So, Zimmerman knew about the jewelry, and that it was stolen,

before he shot Martin? And he was casing the neighborhood -- even

though Martin was headed back to his dad's apartment? Right....



Why didn't he tell the cops? According to the rightard story that's

been floating around here, the cops recognized the jewelry, that it

came from a house burglary, and that Martin had it in his possession,

but they didn't bother to investigate it because they didn't want to

mess up their arrest statistics.



After that fairy tale, I don't believe much of anything said about

this case.







The "innocent little boy" was casing houses in Zimmerman's
neighborhood

Prove it.


where Zimmerman was on the neighborhood watch...most likely started
due

to Martin's crime spree. I would have had a rifle and shot the

criminal, multiple times from at at least 50 yards after witnessing
him

case houses.

And you'd be doing life in prison.



Silenced rifle, sabot round. And, just how would I get arrested?

Why don't you **** off now, little tommy? You wouldn't do any of that.
You don't have the balls.

You're a gutless lying coward. You cower in abject terror all the time,
just like gummer and scooter. You gutless ****s aren't tough, and never
had any hope of being tough.


To bad about

your lack of balls? Nah, it's a source of amusement for us.

On 7/29/2013 6:56 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

Nah, it's a source of amusement for us.



Us? You got an imaginary friend! How cute! (****-eating basement dweller)

On 7/29/2013 9:04 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/29/2013 6:56 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/29/2013 3:50 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/25/2013 12:05 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/25/2013 6:10 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/24/2013 11:47 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:18:16 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/24/2013 3:47 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 15:06:48 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:



On 7/23/2013 6:41 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:34:58 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks
wrote:



On 7/23/2013 2:06 PM, Pierre Laporte, Minister of Unemployment
and

Assimilation wrote:

In article

Media Madders.Lie wrote:



The shooting of Trayvon might never have happened if school
officials

in Miami-Dade County had not instituted a fraudulent policy of

treating Crimes as 'School Disciplinary Infractions'.
Revelations that

emerged from an Internal Affairs investigation explain why
Martin was

not arrested when caught at school with stolen jewelry and with

marijuana. Instead, the typical gangsta wannabe was just
suspended

from school, the last time just days before he was shot while

attacking George Zimmerman.

Trayvon Martin was not from Sanford, the town north of Orlando
where

he was shot in 2012 and where a Jury Acquitted Zimmerman of
murder

charges. Martin was from Miami Gardens, over 200 miles away,
and had

come to Sanford to hang out with one of his babydaddy's 'hoes
Brandy

Green at her crib in the community where Zimmerman was in
charge of

the Neighborhood Watch. Trayvon was staying with Green after he
had

been suspended for the 2nd time in 6 months from Krop High
School in

Miami-Dade County, where his daddy, Tracy Martin, and mammy,
Sybrina

Fulton, lived.

Both of Trayvon's disciplinary suspensions at Krop High
involved

Crimes that should have led to his prosecution. However, Chief
Charles

Hurley of the Miami-Dade School Police Department (MDSPD) had

implemented a cover-up policy that reduced the number of
Criminal

Reports, manipulating statistics to create the false appearance
of a

reduction in crime within his school system. Less than two
weeks

before Trayvon's death, the school system commended Chief
Hurley for

"decreasing school-related juvenile delinquency by an amazing
60% for

the last six months of 2011." What was actually happening was
that

Crimes were not being reported, but instead mischaracterized as

'Disciplinary Infractions'.

After video surveillance cameras caught Trayvon spraying
graffiti,

MDSPD Office Darryl Dunn searched his backpack, looking for the

markers he was using. Officer Dunn found 12 pieces of women's
jewelry

and a man's watch, along with a heavy flathead screwdriver the
officer

described as a "burglary tool." The jewelry and watch, which
Martin

claimed he had gotten from a friend he refused to name,
matched a

description of items stolen during the October 2011 home
robbery of a

house on 204th Terrace, about a half-mile from the school.
However,

because of Chief Hurley's scheme "to lower the Arrest Rates,"
as a

MDSPD sergeant revealed during an internal investigation, the
stolen

jewelry in Trayvon's possession was instead only listed as
"found

property" and was never reported to Miami-Dade Police who were

investigating the robberies. Similarly, in February 2012 when
an MDSPD

officer caught Trayvon with a plastic bag containing
marijuana, as

well as a marijuana pipe, this was not treated as a crime, and
instead

he was merely suspended from class.

These Crimes should have put Trayvon Martin into the custody of
the

Justice System. However, because of Chief Hurley's tricky
scheme to

spin the school Crime Statistics - according to sworn
testimony,

officers were "basically told to lie and falsify" reports -
Trayvon

wasn't arrested. If he had been arrested, he might never have
been

prowling around in Sanford after scoring the fixings for a
'Street

Drug' (promethazine/codeine cough syrup, Soda & Skittles) the
night of

his fateful encounter with Zimmerman.

In fact, the reason Zimmerman was suspicious of the hooded
figure

skulking around the townhouse community the night of the
February 2012

shooting was that there had been a rash of burglaries in the

neighborhood since Trayvon had arrived so he called the Police.

As for Chief Hurley's scam, it was the controversy over
Trayvon's

death that accidentally exposed it. In March 2012, the Miami
Herald

reported on Trayvon's criminal activities at Krop High. Chief
Hurley

then launched the Internal Affairs Investigation in an attempt
to find

out who had leaked information to reporters. During the course
of the

IA Investigation, MDSPD officers and supervisors desclosed
Chief

Hurley's policy of covering up Crimes by students. Chief Hurley
was

subsequently accused of Sexually Harassing two female
subordinates. He

resigned in disgrace in February, about a year after Trayvon
Martin's

death.



Hurley was fond of black pussy, see Deanna Fox-Williams, 2nd

from right.



http://theconservativetreehouse.file...m/2012/12/miam

i-dade-schools-police-department.jpg?w=640&h=426



Also, Yewande Gibson.



http://media.nbcmiami.com/images/654...nde-Gibson.jpg







In other words, the boy had a bright future in the Democratic
Party

Leadership or as a Reverend in the race-baiting business.



One lesson from this is never to carry a straight-bladed
screwdriver

on your person. Another is that we should prepare prisons for
half of

the young people in the US (and quite a few older people) because

they've smoked marijuana, and should be treated as criminals.





No, just the slime-balls on drugs that have stolen jewelry on them
and

get caught casing YOUR neighborhood.



Aha! So, Zimmerman knew about the jewelry, and that it was stolen,

before he shot Martin? And he was casing the neighborhood -- even

though Martin was headed back to his dad's apartment? Right....



Why didn't he tell the cops? According to the rightard story that's

been floating around here, the cops recognized the jewelry, that it

came from a house burglary, and that Martin had it in his
possession,

but they didn't bother to investigate it because they didn't want to

mess up their arrest statistics.



After that fairy tale, I don't believe much of anything said about

this case.







The "innocent little boy" was casing houses in Zimmerman's
neighborhood

Prove it.


where Zimmerman was on the neighborhood watch...most likely started
due

to Martin's crime spree. I would have had a rifle and shot the

criminal, multiple times from at at least 50 yards after witnessing
him

case houses.

And you'd be doing life in prison.



Silenced rifle, sabot round. And, just how would I get arrested?

Why don't you **** off now, little tommy? You wouldn't do any of that.
You don't have the balls.

You're a gutless lying coward. You cower in abject terror all the time,
just like gummer and scooter. You gutless ****s aren't tough, and never
had any hope of being tough.


To bad about

your lack of balls? Nah, it's a source of amusement for us.


Us? You got an imaginary friend!

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.



--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On 7/30/2013 10:24 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

No "List"; no "those who keep the list"; no "cull".

All of gummer's blabber about "lists" is bull****, and incompetent brush
boy knows it.

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.


He's just a stupid troll

Gunner tells you he's having Plimpton killed. The same as he said
_I'd_ be dead by the end of last year. Then you call _Plimpton_ a
troll, without addressing Gunner's undeniably trollish statement about
having people killed, or your own endlessly trollish posts.

And don't bother calling ME a troll, because it's Ghost of a DEAD
troll to you, clown. LOL

Now carry on pretending that Gunner is going to have me killed again,
and that he's suing me for publishing the Wieber Cliff Notes. The next
edition will be the 12th. How many more will it take before I receive
my "summins?" How many more years before you call useless eater Gunner
onto the carpet for making the most laughably impotent threats on
Usenet?

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:28:12 -0700, whoyakidding's ghost
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.


He's just a stupid troll

Gunner tells you he's having Plimpton killed. The same as he said
_I'd_ be dead by the end of last year. Then you call _Plimpton_ a
troll, without addressing Gunner's undeniably trollish statement about
having people killed, or your own endlessly trollish posts.

And don't bother calling ME a troll, because it's Ghost of a DEAD
troll to you, clown. LOL

Now carry on pretending that Gunner is going to have me killed again,
and that he's suing me for publishing the Wieber Cliff Notes. The next
edition will be the 12th. How many more will it take before I receive
my "summins?" How many more years before you call useless eater Gunner
onto the carpet for making the most laughably impotent threats on
Usenet?

I think I'm supposed to be dead, too, and my expiration date was
12/12.

So far, I haven't noticed. But if this is heaven, I'm sorely
disappointed. And if it's hell, it's a lot like Philadelphia.

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/30/2013 2:28 PM, whoyakidding's ghost wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.


He's just a stupid troll

Gunner tells you he's having Plimpton killed. The same as he said
_I'd_ be dead by the end of last year. Then you call _Plimpton_ a
troll, without addressing Gunner's undeniably trollish statement about
having people killed, or your own endlessly trollish posts.

And don't bother calling ME a troll, because it's Ghost of a DEAD
troll to you, clown. LOL

Now carry on pretending that Gunner is going to have me killed again,
and that he's suing me for publishing the Wieber Cliff Notes.

Did gummer say he was suing you over that? What's the cause of action?
It's hardly defamatory - gummer still says all those things.


The next
edition will be the 12th. How many more will it take before I receive
my "summins?" How many more years before you call useless eater Gunner
onto the carpet for making the most laughably impotent threats on
Usenet?

On 7/30/2013 2:37 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:28:12 -0700, whoyakidding's ghost
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.


He's just a stupid troll

Gunner tells you he's having Plimpton killed. The same as he said
_I'd_ be dead by the end of last year. Then you call _Plimpton_ a
troll, without addressing Gunner's undeniably trollish statement about
having people killed, or your own endlessly trollish posts.

And don't bother calling ME a troll, because it's Ghost of a DEAD
troll to you, clown. LOL

Now carry on pretending that Gunner is going to have me killed again,
and that he's suing me for publishing the Wieber Cliff Notes. The next
edition will be the 12th. How many more will it take before I receive
my "summins?" How many more years before you call useless eater Gunner
onto the carpet for making the most laughably impotent threats on
Usenet?

I think I'm supposed to be dead, too, and my expiration date was
12/12.

I was supposed to have been killed by some associate of gummer by the
end of every year since 2006.


So far, I haven't noticed. But if this is heaven, I'm sorely
disappointed. And if it's hell, it's a lot like Philadelphia.

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.


--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On 7/30/2013 3:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.

Nope. I'm in excellent health. Cliff Huprich died of natural causes.

No, there is no "list", no "those who keep the list", no "cull". You're
just trolling, talentlessly as always, when you write that bull****.

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:05:14 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.

So you're in contact with the murderers, and you know of plans to kill
him? And you haven't told the police?

Shall we call your local police and help you out, so you don't wind up
in prison?

Have you been taking idiot pills again, Gunner?

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:39:59 -0700, George Plimpton
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 2:28 PM, whoyakidding's ghost wrote:

Now carry on pretending that Gunner is going to have me killed again,
and that he's suing me for publishing the Wieber Cliff Notes.

Did gummer say he was suing you over that? What's the cause of action?
It's hardly defamatory - gummer still says all those things.

When I posted the first version of the Cliff Notes back in January,
Gunner said it was "A great set up for court!!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/talk...o/hvwmn6m4cDEJ

Which reminded me to add some examples of Gunner's "my lawyer"
horse**** to later versions of the Cliff Notes.

"Im sure your provider is going to be real happy to get a phone call
from me, my lawyer, and a couple other folks whom carry a bit of
weight" (2007)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....3fb369d84be771

"My lawyer hates reading between the lines" (2010)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....f0383a30932b60

"Im a big fan of turning them over to the cops along with a signed
statement (having my Lawyer draw it up and deliver it)" (2010)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...3cf3b61873c5fc

"My lawyer will be sending you a summins in the next few weeks or so"
(2011)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.c...b8947d02c618fa

So he's been threatening to sue people for at least the last 6 years.
Which told me that getting to the top of his lawyer's to-do list would
require increased haunting. Yet despite all my goading, still no
summins. What a shock.

Looks to me that Tom Gardner prefers friends even more impotent than
himself.

On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher? I notice Ol'
Georgie is a totally anonymous troll. He's in good company in the troll
cage. Where did Georgie come from anyway?

OBTW, I'm going to start teaching non-NRA firearms safety classes for my
parish. I want to keep them free and if I state it's a sanctioned NRA
class the NRA gets paid for each student. Any material and/or ideas?
I'm going to keep it at just one hour, the NRA class is six or eight
hours. I'm assembling a PP presentation and my outline now. One hour
is going to be tough! But, just talking about the class got me four CCW
students at full boat! Any help would be highly appreciated!

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:52:26 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher? I notice Ol'
Georgie is a totally anonymous troll. He's in good company in the troll
cage. Where did Georgie come from anyway?

OBTW, I'm going to start teaching non-NRA firearms safety classes for my
parish. I want to keep them free and if I state it's a sanctioned NRA
class the NRA gets paid for each student. Any material and/or ideas?
I'm going to keep it at just one hour, the NRA class is six or eight
hours. I'm assembling a PP presentation and my outline now. One hour
is going to be tough! But, just talking about the class got me four CCW
students at full boat! Any help would be highly appreciated!

When you got your certification, wasn't it also for your state, as
well as the NRA? When I got my rifle instructor certification it was a
dual certification: NRA and New York State.

So I could run a class as a "New York State certified" class, and I
did run one such class for kids (mostly Boy Scouts) -- a bit of a
fiasco held at the range in one of our wildlife management areas, next
to a lake, in the summer, and people freaked out over all of the kids
walking around with rifles. g

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/30/2013 5:52 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and
mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and
you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just
taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink,
wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher?

That's what people wonder when you and mikey get going.

You're stupid. You don't realize that your hump buddy gummer is once
again saying I'm going to be killed. I'm not going to be killed, of
course: no "cull", no "list", no "those who keep the [non-existent] list".

Why don't you ever spit gummer's little scoring pencil dick out of your
mouth and ask him why he's always saying people who say things he
dislikes are going to be killed?

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:14:28 -0700, George Plimpton
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 5:52 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and
mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and
you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just
taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink,
wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher?

That's what people wonder when you and mikey get going.

You're stupid. You don't realize that your hump buddy gummer is once
again saying I'm going to be killed. I'm not going to be killed, of
course: no "cull", no "list", no "those who keep the [non-existent] list".

Why don't you ever spit gummer's little scoring pencil dick out of your
mouth and ask him why he's always saying people who say things he
dislikes are going to be killed?

He may think he's got his ass covered, legally, but he's getting
awfully close to being investigated when he says he's "heard" that
someone in particular is going to be killed.

And the dope almost certainly went over the line on Canada's laws
regarding terroristic threats a while back. It doesn't take much to
step over *their* line. He's playing with fire.

I won't be surprised if he gets a visit from those dour-looking men
with badges, wearing cheap suits, one of these days.

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/30/2013 6:20 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:14:28 -0700, George Plimpton
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 5:52 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and
mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and
you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just
taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink,
wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher?

That's what people wonder when you and mikey get going.

You're stupid. You don't realize that your hump buddy gummer is once
again saying I'm going to be killed. I'm not going to be killed, of
course: no "cull", no "list", no "those who keep the [non-existent] list".

Why don't you ever spit gummer's little scoring pencil dick out of your
mouth and ask him why he's always saying people who say things he
dislikes are going to be killed?

He may think he's got his ass covered, legally, but he's getting
awfully close to being investigated when he says he's "heard" that
someone in particular is going to be killed.

And the dope almost certainly went over the line on Canada's laws
regarding terroristic threats a while back. It doesn't take much to
step over *their* line. He's playing with fire.

I won't be surprised if he gets a visit from those dour-looking men
with badges, wearing cheap suits, one of these days.

As much as I think gummer is a **** of a human being, I'd never sic law
on him for his comical threats here. It's brutally obvious he's just
woofing. As big a dope as he is, he knows no one, including his
buddies, believes a word of it.

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:30:38 -0700, George Plimpton
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 6:20 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:14:28 -0700, George Plimpton
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 5:52 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and
mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and
you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just
taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink,
wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher?

That's what people wonder when you and mikey get going.

You're stupid. You don't realize that your hump buddy gummer is once
again saying I'm going to be killed. I'm not going to be killed, of
course: no "cull", no "list", no "those who keep the [non-existent] list".

Why don't you ever spit gummer's little scoring pencil dick out of your
mouth and ask him why he's always saying people who say things he
dislikes are going to be killed?

He may think he's got his ass covered, legally, but he's getting
awfully close to being investigated when he says he's "heard" that
someone in particular is going to be killed.

And the dope almost certainly went over the line on Canada's laws
regarding terroristic threats a while back. It doesn't take much to
step over *their* line. He's playing with fire.

I won't be surprised if he gets a visit from those dour-looking men
with badges, wearing cheap suits, one of these days.

As much as I think gummer is a **** of a human being, I'd never sic law
on him for his comical threats here. It's brutally obvious he's just
woofing. As big a dope as he is, he knows no one, including his
buddies, believes a word of it.

I'll bet there are 50 people reading the various cross-posted groups
who would pass something along to the law.

The most it would do is get him a visit. As soon as they saw what a
bag of wind he is, it probably would be over.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:20:05 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:14:28 -0700, George Plimpton
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 5:52 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher?

That's what people wonder when you and mikey get going.

You're stupid. You don't realize that your hump buddy gummer is once
again saying I'm going to be killed. I'm not going to be killed, of
course: no "cull", no "list", no "those who keep the [non-existent] list".

Why don't you ever spit gummer's little scoring pencil dick out of your
mouth and ask him why he's always saying people who say things he
dislikes are going to be killed?

He may think he's got his ass covered, legally, but he's getting
awfully close to being investigated when he says he's "heard" that
someone in particular is going to be killed.

And the dope almost certainly went over the line on Canada's laws
regarding terroristic threats a while back. It doesn't take much to
step over *their* line. He's playing with fire.

I won't be surprised if he gets a visit from those dour-looking men
with badges, wearing cheap suits, one of these days.

Nobody who knows Gunner would take him seriously. But people who don't
know him, and who don't have a sense of humor, might take some care
with him that could prove troublesome. It sounds like he did some gum
flapping to the code enforcement lady a while back, and she brought
cops on the next visit. He's playing with fire alright, but he's too
dumb to learn to fly straight. How stupid does he have to be to keep
making death threats year after year? I've never seen anybody work so
hard to screw himself.

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:52:26 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher? I notice Ol'
Georgie is a totally anonymous troll. He's in good company in the troll
cage. Where did Georgie come from anyway?

OBTW, I'm going to start teaching non-NRA firearms safety classes for my
parish. I want to keep them free and if I state it's a sanctioned NRA
class the NRA gets paid for each student. Any material and/or ideas?
I'm going to keep it at just one hour, the NRA class is six or eight
hours. I'm assembling a PP presentation and my outline now. One hour
is going to be tough! But, just talking about the class got me four CCW
students at full boat! Any help would be highly appreciated!

Btw..seen this bit of buffoonery?

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/05/0...ra-connection/

As for non NRA classes....might want to try the JPFO website. Other
than that.. I cant think of any other than local ones..such as the
California Rifle and Pistol Org and others. Ohio is outside of my
baliwick.



As a side note...this is a VERY good article

http://www.preppersanonymous.com/

Gunner












--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:52:26 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:51:05 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 7/30/2013 1:24 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:59:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

****
On 7/30/2013 1:21 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

No, I have real friends, tommy bitch - not fakes like gummer and mikey
and that fake Russian and fake German you call "friends".

You really do blow, diabetic fat **** tommy-boy. You blow, and you suck.

No "silenced rifle" or "sabot round", tommy bitch. You're just taking a
big blood-streaked ****. You're going to be dead soon, and it's only
your own fault.

Well, let's hear from your "real" friends, even just one! (wink, wink,
chuckle, chuckle) I thought so...


That's your BEST? I see you still don't know which newsgroup you are
connecting to, stupid, friendless twit! Don't cry, your mascara will
run and stain your new fluffy boa.

Laugh, laugh, laugh! You are threatening to kill me now, and it's my
fault for pushing you over the edge? How cool! Well, you're welcome
anytime! But you're gutless, unskilled, uneducated, hopeless, useless
eater. You are one sorry, stupid ****twit! We're still waiting for
your degrees, patents and original thoughts...oh, I guess those WERE
your original thoughts. How sad. I feel guilty laughing at you, it's
not nice to pick on the mentally handicapped.

next

Pimpton is on the List.

So No ONE needs to be worried about his buffoonery.





He's just a stupid troll that NOBODY can stand and never has anything
remotely interesting to say. Even his insults are unimaginative and
lame. How sad, ...Oh well, he's In the Bozo-bin!

From what I understand...he will be sharing quarters with Cliff before
long.



Which one is the pitcher and which is the catcher? I notice Ol'
Georgie is a totally anonymous troll. He's in good company in the troll
cage. Where did Georgie come from anyway?

OBTW, I'm going to start teaching non-NRA firearms safety classes for my
parish. I want to keep them free and if I state it's a sanctioned NRA
class the NRA gets paid for each student. Any material and/or ideas?
I'm going to keep it at just one hour, the NRA class is six or eight
hours. I'm assembling a PP presentation and my outline now. One hour
is going to be tough! But, just talking about the class got me four CCW
students at full boat! Any help would be highly appreciated!

I've always thought that perhaps the first thing in a safety course
should be to demonstrate to the students just why this silly class is
necessary.

It is pretty easy to do if the class is about, say 12 gauge
shotguns... pretty easy to demonstrate how dangerous they are by
blowing things up, but if it is a paltry little .22 (which can, of
course, kill you) it is far more difficult to show just how dangerous
it is.

Back when I was a lad I suspect that most kids probably knew that a
gun could kill you, after all their dad or their uncle or their big
brother used to haul a deer carcase home on the front fender every
year but I have this suspicion that modern day kids really don't
appreciate this. After all, watching the TV or the movies there is
nothing to it. Just blast away and the hero returns in the next
episode.
--
Cheers,

John B.