On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:04:34 GMT, Dhu on Gate
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:51:07 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:32:44 GMT, Dhu on Gate
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:23:12 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

centuries, and it is exactly what Plimpton is saying. It requires
state ownership (or other collective ownership, in the case of utopian
colonies or communes) of the means of production.


State *monopoly* of the MoP is a *Marxist* "innovation". "Socialism" only
requires that the State be organized for the benefit of public society:
what those organizing principles be is a matter of local context.

I don't want to pick nits here, but I think you're talking about
"state monopoly capitalism," which was one of the historical stages
that Marx hypothesized. That's not socialism. Under his theories, that
was a late, "crisis" stage of capitalism. In fact, historians and
economic philosophers (including Marx) contrasted state-monopoly
capitalism and socialism.

But socialism, by all definitions, requires state ownership (or
communal ownership) of the means of production.


Communism, as practiced by Hutterites and others from time immemorial,
is a simplistic form of socialism that only works for smallish groups
of sixty or so individuals.

It looks like you're ducking around to avoid the simple fact:
socialism requires state ownership of the means of production. Tea
Partiers and other hyper-individualists usually don't know this, or
pretend they don't. They confuse socialism with welfare-state
capitalism, which is what we have in most Western countries. That was
the point being made.

You are conflating communism, where all MoP are owned by "state" monopoly,
and socialism, where the state is organized according to principles of
public benefit. What those principles are is a matter for local definition.
Communism, with it's flat collective ownership only works in smallish
groups of 60 or a hundred people max and DOES NOT SCALE.

Dhu


Well, that is what YOU say. But are you an authority on the subject?
Please publish your qualifications to allow us to evaluate the
authenticity of your pronouncements.

(You will note, I hope that your opponents are both quoting from
published histories)

--
Cheers,

John B.