"John B." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:23:53 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Nov 16, 11:05 am, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs
span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits &
Softwarehttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
food going broke.


Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!


Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
shareholders they have to answer to.

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!


Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
shareholders they have to answer to.


Where are these "small local bakeries" I know of 10 different small
bakeries, all of them now out of business due to govt. regulations,
taxes, and the ever increasing cost of business.

Plus how many of these folks will now walk into a small bakery and
expect $20.00+ an hour when most small bakeries pay min. wage?


That is another section of this that I haven't seen mentioned. I wonder
what the actual job losses will be when you count up the losses in the
supply and delivery chain on top of the companies direct losses.


--
Steve W.

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:30:36 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Nov 16, 5:27*pm, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:23:53 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Nov 16, 11:05 am, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Softwarehttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
food going broke.

Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
--
Cheers,
John B.

Better jobs would be created if Americans paid more attention to and
cared more about what they ate.


Right! I understand that McDonalds has a lot of openings.

--
Cheers,
John B.

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:32:45 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Nov 16, 5:30*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:27*pm, John B. wrote:









On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:23:53 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer

wrote:
On Nov 16, 11:05 am, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Softwarehttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
food going broke.

Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
--
Cheers,
John B.

Better jobs would be created if Americans paid more attention to and
cared more about what they ate.

Here is some proof:

http://strausfamilycreamery.com/about/work-for-straus

That is really exciting.... Unfortunately Strous, et al, must be
newcomers to the dairy scene. I can certainly remember dairy
operations very similar to their "organic" operation from my youth.
You know, cattle fed on hay and silage harvested by the farmer
himself, cattle turned out to pasture between milkings, etc.

Of course, back in those days you didn't have to pay extra to have
someone stick a sign on the milk bottle that said "Organic" as is so
common today.

I'm sure that you do know that the milk they are selling isn't
"organic" in the sense that it is untreated "raw" milk.
--
Cheers,
John B.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!


Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread
shutdown will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local
bakeries who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice
daily basis, and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in
management and or shareholders they have to answer to.


Where are these "small local bakeries" I know of 10 different small
bakeries, all of them now out of business due to govt. regulations, taxes,
and the ever increasing cost of business.

Plus how many of these folks will now walk into a small bakery and expect
$20.00+ an hour when most small bakeries pay min. wage?


That is another section of this that I haven't seen mentioned. I wonder
what the actual job losses will be when you count up the losses in the
supply and delivery chain on top of the companies direct losses.


--
Steve W.

Small local bakeries are only relevant in serving a niche market looking for
fresh goods, they will never be able to compete with two loaves of bread at
Costco for $4.00. This is the way the industry is going:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_Bimbo

You mean the gal who mandated starvation
calorie levels for teenage school lunches,
reminiscent of the Nazi death camps?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Michelle?


All 400 pounds of her?

Wow, just like gramma used to make. She'd go
to town once a year, on her miniature donkey. Go
to the town grocery store, and buy an ounce of
sodium stearoyl lactylate and bring it home,
to make the Christmas twinkie. Ah, the memories.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"jon_banquer"
wrote in message news:e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-

Twinkie ingredients:

"Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose
corn syrup, vegetable and/or animal shortening – containing one or
more of partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and canola oil, and
beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum,
whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium
phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup, solids, mono and
diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium
caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate,
natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow #5, red #40.[8]"

All this time, I thought it was government over
regulation killing the economy. So, my purchase
and consumption of Hostess was the cause of
unemployment?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...

Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
food going broke.

Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
--
Cheers,
John B.

Better jobs would be created if Americans paid more attention to and
cared more about what they ate.

I expect China to produce similar product, which
will soon be sold in Walmarts, and Harbor Freight.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Nov 17, 4:48*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I expect China to produce similar product, which
will soon be sold in Walmarts, and Harbor Freight.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

I love it. All the melamine you can eat and a bunch of free Harbor
Freight flashlights.

On Nov 17, 3:36*am, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:32:45 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:30*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:27*pm, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:23:53 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer

wrote:
On Nov 16, 11:05 am, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Softwarehttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
food going broke.

Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
--
Cheers,
John B.

Better jobs would be created if Americans paid more attention to and
cared more about what they ate.

Here is some proof:

http://strausfamilycreamery.com/about/work-for-straus

That is really exciting.... Unfortunately Strous, et al, must be
newcomers to the dairy scene. I can certainly remember dairy
operations very similar to their "organic" operation from my youth.
You know, cattle fed on hay and silage harvested by the farmer
himself, cattle turned out to pasture between milkings, etc.

Of course, back in those days you didn't have to pay extra to have
someone stick a sign on the milk bottle that said "Organic" as is so
common today.

I'm sure that you do know that the milk they are selling isn't
"organic" in the sense that it is untreated "raw" milk.
--
Cheers,
John B.

You fail to note that today's mass produced milk is watery garbage
that doesn't come close to tasting like Straus milk. Perhaps the
reason you fail to notice is you have been eating at McDonalds for far
too long.

A kindred spirit. We speak the same language.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"MadHatter" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 4:48 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I expect China to produce similar product, which
will soon be sold in Walmarts, and Harbor Freight.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

I love it. All the melamine you can eat and a bunch of free Harbor
Freight flashlights.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

All this time, I thought it was government over
regulation killing the economy. So, my purchase
and consumption of Hostess was the cause of
unemployment?

No, just diabetes...

In article cal,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

In article e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-
, says...

On Nov 16, 10:38*am, "azotic" wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some
sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with
benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers
and
570 outlet stores across the country.
Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to
medical
benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had
worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he
was offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.
--http://fija.org/

Questions people should be asking:

What new and innovative product has Hostess come up with in the last
ten years.

Why didn't Hostess try to make some healthier stuff instead of
chemical garbage?

Why are unions to blame for bad Hostess management?

"The unions" are not to blame for bad Hostess management.

The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers
International Union however is to blame for going on strike after the
company settled with the Teamsters, making it impossible for the company
to continue operations.

I have to say that Hostess sold 323 million Twinkies in the last
12-month period, and had sales of 2.5 Billion in 2011, so it's not that
there were no sales. (Ref: The Hostess Liquidation: A Curious Cast Of
Characters As The Twinkie Tumbles, Submitted by Tyler Durden on
11/16/2012 10:18 -050)

So it has to be the cost structure.

There were also two articles in The Wall Street Journal (17 Nov 2012,
pages A1 and A16). The upshot was that it was work rules as much as
anything, plus pensions, that overwhelmed Hostess. The Teamsters had
agreed to the cuts, but the Bakers balked, and time ran out. I don't
doubt that Hostess was prepared for this outcome, given the history.

But there was a critical note in one of the two WSJ articles, that the
Twinkie brand and recipes portfolio would be sold as part of the
liquidation, to raise money to pay creditors.

Given that 323 Million Twinkies were sold per year, yielding billions in
sales revenue, someone will buy this. Like the Bimbo Group that was
trying to buy Hostess. What they will *not* buy is Hostess the company,
or any of its obligations.

Wonder if any Bakers Union people will get jobs in the new company.

Joe Gwinn

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!


Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread
shutdown will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local
bakeries who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice
daily basis, and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in
management and or shareholders they have to answer to.


Where are these "small local bakeries" I know of 10 different small
bakeries,

There's at least 6 of them in a city of population 36,648 just a few miles
up the freeway from me.

all of them now out of business due to govt. regulations,

Bull****.

taxes, and the ever increasing cost of business.

Then you shouldn't have a problem coming up with the names of 10 actual
bakeries and a specific list "government regulations" that led to their
ultimate demise....

Plus how many of these folks will now walk into a small bakery and expect
$20.00+ an hour

From what I read, "some" made ~18.00 per hour...do you really think that all
of them made that much ?

http://www.careerbliss.com/salary/wo...adelphia%2C+pa

Average hourly wage appears to have been about $14.50

--personally, I don't get out of bed for anything less than about triple
that amount.

when most small bakeries pay min. wage?

http://www.ehow.com/about_7550314_av...rs-salary.html

"The city and state you work in can affect the amount you earn as a baker.
The highest-paid city in the United States is Minneapolis, Minnesota, with
hourly rates for bakers between $14.20 and $17.66, while bakers in Dallas,
Texas, earn hourly rates between $9.83 and $12.84, as of November 2010,
according to Payscale.com. The difference in hourly rates for bakers occurs
when there is a greater demand for these workers than in other areas of the
country."



That is another section of this that I haven't seen mentioned. I wonder
what the actual job losses will be when you count up the losses in the
supply and delivery chain on top of the companies direct losses.

Almost zero; instead, they be delivering and wharehousing somebody else's
products from now on.

Anyways, IMO the fundamental problem isn't labor costs...

--it's the fact that no matter how fast it gets baked, ultimately, the rich
can still only eat a certain amount of cake.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
n.local...
In article e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-
, says...

On Nov 16, 10:38 am, "azotic" wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some
sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with
benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and
570 outlet stores across the country.
Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to
medical
benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who
had
worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before
he
was offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.
--http://fija.org/

Questions people should be asking:

What new and innovative product has Hostess come up with in the last
ten years.

Why didn't Hostess try to make some healthier stuff instead of
chemical garbage?

Why are unions to blame for bad Hostess management?

"The unions" are not to blame for bad Hostess management.

The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers
International Union however is to blame for going on strike after the
company settled with the Teamsters, making it impossible for the company
to continue operations.

Nope....

Nusinesses always have the option of hiring scabs where meeting union
demands is not feasable.

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:55:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Tim Wescott wrote:

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.


Buggy whips didn't go out on strike, and refuse to go back to their
$20 an hour jobs.

I hope the state refuses all their requests for unemployment benefits,
given that they voluntarily walked off their jobs and turned down an
offer by the company to keep them. Damn, what a bunch of dumbasses in
a really nasty job market! THAT is the union's fault. Effemall...

--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:55:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Buggy whips didn't go out on strike, and refuse to go back to their
$20 an hour jobs.

I hope the state refuses all their requests for unemployment benefits,
given that they voluntarily walked off their jobs and turned down an
offer by the company to keep them. Damn, what a bunch of dumbasses in
a really nasty job market! THAT is the union's fault. Effemall...

--

It's funny how unions drove labor prices up, union workers generally vote
for Democrats, but all the jobs lost are somehow the result of Republicans!

Union workers are just another group believing the Democrats lies and buys.

RogerN

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:05:34 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:

All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

Of the 14 unions(!!) that serve inside of Hostess...one of them
decided they wanted a raise.

That union ****ed 81,000 employees right in the ass..without any lube.
And the other 13 unions as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html


Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Nov 17, 4:01*pm, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:05:34 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:









On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:

All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. *It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. *Damn
those unions. *Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

Of the 14 unions(!!) that serve inside of Hostess...one of them
decided they wanted a raise.

That union ****ed 81,000 employees right in the ass..without any lube.
And the other 13 unions as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ation-teamster...

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html

"The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of
financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two
bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market
share," the union said. "The Wall Street investors who took over the
company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by
attacking the company’s most valuable asset -- its workers."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html

Comments:

"Realistically the reason Hostess failed is down to one thing:
products of poor nutritional quality, made with poorly-selected
ingredients, and to poor recipes. Many decades ago they might have cut
it because the buying public wasn't conscious of nutrition and mass-
produced foods seemed somehow "futuristic", but they didn't grow with
the times, and now seem bland and uninspired.

Hostess' products had little differentiation beyond color and shape.
They shared same texture, and barring the addition of a coating here
or a jam / cream layer there, the same bland, overly sweet flavor and
greasy mouth feel. They were to food what supermarket sheet cakes are
to a home-baked cake: almost totally unrelated.

And the slight additions to the basic formula like "chocolate"
coatings or creams bore essentially no relationship to their claimed
ingredients. I don't think anybody believed the waxy coating of a Ding
Dong the or artificially-flavored "chocolate creme" filling of a
Twinkie bore even the most slender relationship to real chocolate. The
same is true of the other additions; the "jams" were artificially
flavored corn syrups, the "creams" had never been near a dairy product
in their lives, and so on.

The products, in a word, were junk. And that is what sank the company.
Not CEO pay, not union demands, not anything else -- just a simple and
fundamental failure to provide what the public wanted: food that was
actually tasty.

Goodbye, Hostess. It's a shame about the lost jobs, but most won't
miss you. "


"The CEO tripled his own pay and the execs pay went up too, knowing
full well they wouldnt be able to pay for the pensions of the union
workers. It was vulture capitalism. "


"When I first heard the story I blamed the unions. But looking closer
at the story: top management took 80% pay increase this year, and the
ceo's salary was raised from 750k to 2.25 million / year, while the
company was going through bankruptcy and the workers had gone through
a round of paycuts / concessions. This is the kind of hypocrisy
today's vulture capitalism and the likes of Bain Capital and Romney
represents."



"This is exactly the kind of things Romney's Bain did... harvest
companies value i.e, take over a company, make them go into debt,
extract the cash to Bain...

Bain would get free money from banks while the company goes BK.
Remember his advise about GM? Make the workers take the hit for bad
management. No regard to the community.

But of course, folks getting $200 a month on food stamps... they are
the takers!

HYPOCRISY which, for any Christians who know their Bible, offended
Christ more then anything.

Hostess going BK was the plan people, either way the workers were
going to take the hit. "


"Now investors will come along and buy the brand. Hostess products
will live on, but made by non-union workers, probably very low-paid
illegal immigrants in right-to-work states or perhaps in Mexico. RIP
baker's union"


"They filed for chapter 11 in 2004. It took them almost 5 years to
restructure, form that filing they gained concessions from the
workforce but NOT from management. In the meantime, the American
appetite for fatty, sugar infused unhealthy snacks subsided quite a
bit. Other competitors adjusted more quickly, Hostess did not. That is
classic mismanagement. "


"... what’s happening with Hostess Brands is a microcosm of what’s
wrong with America, as Bain-style Wall Street vultures make themselves
rich by making America poor. Crony capitalism and consistently poor
management drove Hostess into the ground, but its workers are paying
the price. "

"The ultimate goal of private equity firms is not to return companies
to profitability and eek out meager profits year after year. It's to
maximize their ROI, which generally means saddling a company with
debt, bankrupting it, and breaking it up for profit. Equity firms do
this again, and again, and again, and yet the public still hasn't
caught on to the scheme. In other words, regardless of whether or not
the bakers union accepted the contract terms, the end result
ultimately would have been the same anyway. That is evident thanks to
previous filings from Hostess where it made it clear it intended to
move to a BK and that it intended to shut down factories, and by the
report from the mayor of St. Louis that he was told months ago by
Hostess that the factory there would be closing.

The strike simply makes the unions a convenient scapegoat and
conservative talking point, because conservative dittoheads will not
look beyond the union to see what actually has occurred at the company
over the past few years to get to the real reasons for it's demise."

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 4:01 pm, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:05:34 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:









On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:

All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

Of the 14 unions(!!) that serve inside of Hostess...one of them
decided they wanted a raise.

That union ****ed 81,000 employees right in the ass..without any lube.
And the other 13 unions as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ation-teamster...

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html

"The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of
financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two
bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market
share," the union said. "The Wall Street investors who took over the
company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by
attacking the company’s most valuable asset -- its workers."

===============================================

Lets also not forget that managment gave themselves up to 300% raises just
before bankruptcy, while at the same time the pension fund was being raided,
while at the same time every one knew it was only a short while before they
all lost their jobs anyway.

At some point people make a rational decision to fight back against those
who are screwing them even if it harms themselves. The point is to
discourage such bad behaviour in others.

On Nov 17, 4:48*pm, "anorton"
wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Nov 17, 4:01 pm, Gunner wrote:









On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:05:34 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:

All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

Of the 14 unions(!!) that serve inside of Hostess...one of them
decided they wanted a raise.

That union ****ed 81,000 employees right in the ass..without any lube.
And the other 13 unions as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ation-teamster...

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ation-teamster...

"The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of
financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two
bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market
share," the union said. "The Wall Street investors who took over the
company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by
attacking the company�s most valuable asset -- its workers."

===============================================

Lets also not forget that managment gave themselves up to 300% raises just
before bankruptcy, while at the same time the pension fund was being raided,
while at the same time every one knew it was only a short while before they
all lost their jobs anyway.

At some point people make a rational decision to fight back against those
who are screwing them even if it harms themselves. The point is to
discourage such bad behaviour in others.


Just how poorly Hostess was run is documented he

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/20...kies-bankrupt/

In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
n.local...
In article e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-
, says...

On Nov 16, 10:38 am, "azotic" wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some
sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with
benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and
570 outlet stores across the country.
Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to
medical
benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who
had
worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before
he
was offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.
--http://fija.org/

Questions people should be asking:

What new and innovative product has Hostess come up with in the last
ten years.

Why didn't Hostess try to make some healthier stuff instead of
chemical garbage?

Why are unions to blame for bad Hostess management?

"The unions" are not to blame for bad Hostess management.

The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers
International Union however is to blame for going on strike after the
company settled with the Teamsters, making it impossible for the company
to continue operations.

Nope....

Nusinesses always have the option of hiring scabs where meeting union
demands is not feasable.

Believe what you want to. But don't come crying to me when you go on
strike and your job goes away.

"anorton" wrote in message
m...

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 4:01 pm, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:05:34 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:









On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:

All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs
span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

Of the 14 unions(!!) that serve inside of Hostess...one of them
decided they wanted a raise.

That union ****ed 81,000 employees right in the ass..without any lube.
And the other 13 unions as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ation-teamster...

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html

"The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of
financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two
bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market
share," the union said. "The Wall Street investors who took over the
company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by
attacking the company’s most valuable asset -- its workers."

===============================================

Lets also not forget that managment gave themselves up to 300% raises just
before bankruptcy, while at the same time the pension fund was being
raided, while at the same time every one knew it was only a short while
before they all lost their jobs anyway.

At some point people make a rational decision to fight back against those
who are screwing them even if it harms themselves. The point is to
discourage such bad behaviour in others.
It doesn't look to me like the pension fund was being raided. They were
trying to negotiate lower pension costs, and suspended payments at a time
when the company was losing $341 M per year. Ripplewood will probably lose
at least $130 million, and the two hedge funds will also lose much of the
money they lent.

Sounds like there was a lot of blame to go around. While I can't blame the
union for trying to hold on to pensions, maintaining work rules such as
separate drivers for different products is ridiculous. The raises for
management were also ludicrous, but we're not talking about amounts that
would make that much difference compared to the losses.

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 05:16:28 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Nov 17, 3:36*am, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:32:45 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:30*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:27*pm, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:23:53 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer

wrote:
On Nov 16, 11:05 am, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.

"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.

Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Softwarehttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
food going broke.

Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
--
Cheers,
John B.

Better jobs would be created if Americans paid more attention to and
cared more about what they ate.

Here is some proof:

http://strausfamilycreamery.com/about/work-for-straus

That is really exciting.... Unfortunately Strous, et al, must be
newcomers to the dairy scene. I can certainly remember dairy
operations very similar to their "organic" operation from my youth.
You know, cattle fed on hay and silage harvested by the farmer
himself, cattle turned out to pasture between milkings, etc.

Of course, back in those days you didn't have to pay extra to have
someone stick a sign on the milk bottle that said "Organic" as is so
common today.

I'm sure that you do know that the milk they are selling isn't
"organic" in the sense that it is untreated "raw" milk.
--
Cheers,
John B.

You fail to note that today's mass produced milk is watery garbage
that doesn't come close to tasting like Straus milk. Perhaps the
reason you fail to notice is you have been eating at McDonalds for far
too long.

I seldom eat at the Golden Arches but that aside, back in the day milk
tasted different depending on what cow it came from. Probably having
to do with the amount of fat in the milk and I somehow seem to
remember that Jersey's gave the richest milk.

But I think what you are talking about is what we used to call
"skimmed milk". It's not actually skimmed but run through a
centrifugal separator to separate the cream as I guess that sells for
a higher price.

But you have your all encompassing government to thank for the make up
of most foods. Take a look at what is actually in Pizza cheese.

--
Cheers,
John B.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
n.local...
In article e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-
,
says...

On Nov 16, 10:38 am, "azotic" wrote:
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming
weeks,
some
sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often
came
with
benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
centers and
570 outlet stores across the country.
Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to
medical
benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee
who
had
worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions,
before
he
was offered a buyout last year.

A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
said.

"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease
operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news.../hostess-jobs/

Best Regards
Tom.
--http://fija.org/

Questions people should be asking:

What new and innovative product has Hostess come up with in the last
ten years.

Why didn't Hostess try to make some healthier stuff instead of
chemical garbage?

Why are unions to blame for bad Hostess management?

"The unions" are not to blame for bad Hostess management.

The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers
International Union however is to blame for going on strike after the
company settled with the Teamsters, making it impossible for the
company
to continue operations.

Nope....

Nusinesses always have the option of hiring scabs where meeting union
demands is not feasable.

Believe what you want to. But don't come crying to me when you go on
strike and your job goes away.


I'm self-employed, you moron.

On 11/16/2012 5:08 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:34 pm, "anorton"
wrote:
"Tom Gardner" mars@tacks wrote in message

...



"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...

Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
food going broke.

I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?

In this case I think it is parenting peer-pressure. My wife is the secretary
at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
food that makes kids fat.

Good. It's a start. It's time for more Americans to start rejecting
anything with High Fructose Corn Syrup as well.





And wheat gluten! That stuff will kill ya'.

You moron, the Twinkie is not dead.

It is truly amazing, and disheartening just how stupid the majority of
Americans are. Starting with the person who started this thread.

The question is poised: Do we make changes in wages and other benefits so
we can keep 18,000 people working, or do we shut the place down?

Obviously, more voted to shut the place down rather than make any
adjustment. Probably get more in unemployment and food stamps and all than
they did working, and they get to sleep in.

So, what's going to happen? The obvious.

The owners of the Twinkie recipe will license smaller shops to make the same
product, some of them overseas. They will not have to pay union wages and
benefits. They can spread them around to take advantage of shipping
logistics.

Enjoy that time off, all youse guys. And remember, you can't buy liquor
with food stamps.

Steve

On Nov 19, 11:52*am, "Steve B" wrote:
You moron, the Twinkie is not dead.

It is truly amazing, and disheartening just how stupid the majority of
Americans are. *Starting with the person who started this thread.

The question is poised: *Do we make changes in wages and other benefits so
we can keep 18,000 people working, or do we shut the place down?

Obviously, more voted to shut the place down rather than make any
adjustment. *Probably get more in unemployment and food stamps and all than
they did working, and they get to sleep in.

So, what's going to happen? *The obvious.

The owners of the Twinkie recipe will license smaller shops to make the same
product, some of them overseas. *They will not have to pay union wages and
benefits. *They can spread them around to take advantage of shipping
logistics.

Enjoy that time off, all youse guys. *And remember, you can't buy liquor
with food stamps.

Steve


http://news.yahoo.com/hostess-liquid...9--sector.html

Hostess faces several objections to its liquidation plan.

"The U.S. Trustee, an agent of the U.S. Department of Justice who
oversees bankruptcy cases, said in court documents it is opposed to
the wind-down plan because Hostess plans improper bonuses to company
insiders."

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
Hostess.


Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their
contracted customers.

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
shareholders they have to answer to.


Twice daily? That wouldn't pay their overhead. They need to be up &
running around the clock. 'Local bakeries' might be able to supply a
few supermarkets, at best.

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.


We know. No one else would hire you.

On Nov 19, 4:19*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.

* *We know. *No one else would hire you.

He worked for Boeing for many years you idiot. It never ceases to
amaze me how truly dumb you are.

On Nov 19, 4:19*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.

* *We know. *No one else would hire you.

Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
shop I know of would ever hire you.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
shareholders they have to answer to.


Twice daily? That wouldn't pay their overhead. They need to be up &
running around the clock. 'Local bakeries' might be able to supply a
few supermarkets, at best.

Guess he thinks that the mom/pop places will fill the void. There is NO
POSSIBLE way that they can.

One of the few outfits that has survived so far is a place in Herkimer.
They have 12 employees and distribute to maybe 10 stores. Each store
gets about 20 loaves of bread and a few bags of rolls and cookies 3
times a week. Now if I take just ONE store as an example (say the local
Hannafords) They sell on average 70 loaves of bread PER DAY. I have gone
in on Friday nights and seen the entire rack sold out, that is bread
from at least 20 different brands. That includes the store branded stuff
as well as the big names.

BUT if you look at the Heidelberg bread it is usually only missing a
loaf or two. WHY?? The stuff costs about 5 bucks for a loaf that is half
the size of the normal loaf.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
?? Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
?? will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
?? who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
?? and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
?? shareholders they have to answer to.
?
?
? Twice daily? That wouldn't pay their overhead. They need to be up ?
? running around the clock. 'Local bakeries' might be able to supply a
? few supermarkets, at best.

Guess he thinks that the mom/pop places will fill the void. There is NO
POSSIBLE way that they can.

One of the few outfits that has survived so far is a place in Herkimer.
They have 12 employees and distribute to maybe 10 stores. Each store
gets about 20 loaves of bread and a few bags of rolls and cookies 3
times a week. Now if I take just ONE store as an example (say the local
Hannafords) They sell on average 70 loaves of bread PER DAY. I have gone
in on Friday nights and seen the entire rack sold out, that is bread
from at least 20 different brands. That includes the store branded stuff
as well as the big names.

BUT if you look at the Heidelberg bread it is usually only missing a
loaf or two. WHY?? The stuff costs about 5 bucks for a loaf that is half
the size of the normal loaf.


A typical grocery store around here has over 500 loaves on the
shelves. Then there are those super stores...

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
Hostess.


Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their
contracted customers.

Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing
the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union
strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of
them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit.
**** 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs.

--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
Hostess.


Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their
contracted customers.

Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing
the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union
strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of
them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit.
**** 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs.


You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.

SEE

Buggy whips

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.

We know. No one else would hire you.

You don't ****ing know jack **** about me, Terrell.