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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#81
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Union kills the twinkie
"jon_banquer" wrote in message ... On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: I'm self-employed, you moron. We know. No one else would hire you. Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No shop I know of would ever hire you. --- Thanks jon much appreciated but I have to add that here that only a very few could actually afford to do so. BTW have you seen the latest issue of "production machining magazine" ? --Advertiser content is great but editorial is like at the 7th grade level IMO |
#82
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Union kills the twinkie
PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of Hostess. Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their contracted customers. Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs. You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand. You mean the other brands they owned that produced some of the best whole wheat bread in the area? I guess you lefties are spending all your money on beer & cheap wine instead of bread. 200 people will be out of work at the Merita Bread bakery in Orlando. |
#83
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Union kills the twinkie
PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "jon_banquer" wrote in message ... On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: I'm self-employed, you moron. We know. No one else would hire you. Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No shop I know of would ever hire you. I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you. |
#84
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Union kills the twinkie
PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "jon_banquer" wrote in message ... On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: I'm self-employed, you moron. We know. No one else would hire you. You don't ****ing know jack **** about me, Terrell. You present yourself as an angry, poorly educated idiot. On that no one would put up with at any normal business. |
#85
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Union kills the twinkie
On Nov 20, 7:54*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "jon_banquer" wrote in message .... On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: I'm self-employed, you moron. We know. No one else would hire you. Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No shop I know of would ever hire you. * *I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you. The more you post the clearer it becomes how much of a worthless loser you truly are. |
#86
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Union kills the twinkie
"Edward A. Falk" wrote: In article , azotic wrote: Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a decade. In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune of $150M/year. They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32% The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives received 60-100% raises while filing for their second bankruptcy. In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure. Ler's see. They have ONE CEO, and 18,500 other employees. How much good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%? |
#87
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What Killed Twinkies
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...illed-twinkies
"There are plenty of culprits in the recent bankruptcy and closure of Hostess Brands, including weak management, short-sighted labor unions, and poor judgment by investors. But the real reason Hostess is going belly up is a problem that’s been brewing for more than 20 years: The company completely failed to innovate. In the 1960s and ’70s, Hostess was a staple in the lunchbox of many school kids. Many of us in the baby boomer generation grew up with sandwiches made from Wonder Bread and Hostess Twinkies or Ding Dongs for dessert. But over the past 20 years, most consumers moved away from these products due to changing views on healthy eating. As times change, brands and companies must evolve with them. Innovative marketers must continue to find ways to make their brands relevant through innovation. Hostess failed miserably at this—even though it was becoming painfully obvious that consumers were walking away. There are plenty of examples of marketers who overcame stagnant or declining business trends by developing solid innovation programs. Clorox (CLX), for instance, turned its stodgy bleach business into a $1 billion cleaning-products line by introducing new items that are more relevant to today’s consumer, such as Disinfecting Wipes, the ToiletWand, and the eco-friendly Green Works line. Campbell Soup (CPB) has kept its business relevant by coming out with a steady stream of innovation beyond basic canned soup. It now offers microwaveable versions, portable packaging, healthier options, and other meal solutions. Procter & Gamble (PG) turned Oil of Olay, once considered a geriatric brand, into a fast-growing, billion-dollar personal-care line by introducing innovative products with greater appeal, such as the Olay Regenerist anti-aging cleansers and moisturizers. All of these transformations came as a result of relatively modest investments in innovation. If Hostess had put a little more effort into innovation at any point during the past 20 years, it would not be where it is today." |
#88
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Union kills the twinkie
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of Hostess. Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their contracted customers. Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs. You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand. SEE Buggy whips WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases) Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE Lack of self control) In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass index (BMI) to within normal range. http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html -- Steve W. |
#89
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Union kills the twinkie
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "jon_banquer" wrote in message ... On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: I'm self-employed, you moron. We know. No one else would hire you. Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No shop I know of would ever hire you. I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you. I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of business. The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
#90
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Union kills the twinkie
Gunner wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote: ? ?PrecisionmachinisT wrote: ?? ?? "jon_banquer" ? wrote in message ?? ... ?? On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ? ?? wrote: ?? ? PrecisionmachinisT wrote: ?? ? ?? ? ? I'm self-employed, you moron. ?? ? ?? ? We know. No one else would hire you. ?? ?? Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No ?? shop I know of would ever hire you. ? ? ? I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you. I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of business. No doubt, considering that all their tools came from Playskool, or Fisher-Price. |
#91
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Union kills the twinkie
On Nov 20, 12:42*pm, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "jon_banquer" wrote in message .... On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: I'm self-employed, you moron. We know. No one else would hire you. Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No shop I know of would ever hire you. * I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you. I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of business. The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie By your own admission you're not a machinist. It's crystal clear that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to machining, CADCAM, employees, etc. |
#92
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Union kills the twinkie
"Steve W." wrote in message ... PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of Hostess. Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their contracted customers. Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs. You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand. SEE Buggy whips WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases) Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE Lack of self control) In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass index (BMI) to within normal range. http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html -- Steve W. Total sales for the Hostess group have been steadily dropping http://www.privco.com/private-compan...ess-brands-inc Regarding Prof. Haubs demonstration, I presume he made sure to eat an adequate amount of protein as well as other micronutrients. One issue with junk food is that empty calories leave your body craving more food to get nutrients that it is missing. Not all these nutrients can be found in a pill either. There are several other long term issues that his 2 month experiment did not reveal. High spikes of blood sugar tend to trigger insulin resistance, damage the blood vessels, amd contribute to fatty liver if you are prone to that. The other issue is trans-fat. Twinkies are loaded with it. This is used because it is not found in nature and it does not spoil because bacteria do not recognize it as food. The walls of all our cells are made of lipid (fat) compounds. The trans fats replace the natural lipids when cells divide leaving a component of our cells that has never existed in nature in the 4 or 5 bilion years since the first cell came to be. Once it is a part of your cells, you cannot get rid of it. Here is one of many studies that show it does not seem to have good effects. http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/6/697.abstract |
#93
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Union kills the twinkie
On 11/20/2012 11:52 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"Edward A. Falk" wrote: In article , azotic wrote: Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a decade. In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune of $150M/year. They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32% The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives received 60-100% raises while filing for their second bankruptcy. In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure. Ler's see. They have ONE CEO, and 18,500 other employees. How much good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%? Cutting his salary by 8% instead of raising it by 300% would have yielded enough money to pay each of the 18,500 workers an additional $100. That is just the CEO, if the rest of the executives had taken a similar haircut, they might have been able to save the company, but since their goal was to loot it, it is really a moot point. |
#94
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Union kills the twinkie
On Nov 20, 1:20*pm, "anorton"
wrote: "Steve W." wrote in message ... PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of Hostess. Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their contracted customers. Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union strike was the last straw. *Like I said, I hope the states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! *Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs. You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand. SEE Buggy whips WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases) Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE Lack of self control) In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most not the nutritional value of the food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass index (BMI) to within normal range. http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html -- Steve W. Total sales for the Hostess group have been steadily droppinghttp://www.privco.com/private-company/hostess-brands-inc Regarding Prof. Haubs demonstration, I presume he made sure to eat an adequate amount of protein as well as other micronutrients. One issue with junk food is that empty calories leave your body craving more food to get nutrients that it is missing. Not all these nutrients can be found in a pill either. There are several other long term issues that his 2 month experiment did not reveal. High spikes of blood sugar tend to trigger insulin resistance, damage the blood vessels, amd contribute to fatty liver if you are prone to that. The other issue is trans-fat. Twinkies are loaded with it. This is used because it is not found in nature and it does not spoil because bacteria do not recognize it as food. *The walls of all our cells are made of lipid (fat) compounds. The trans fats replace the natural lipids when cells divide leaving a component of our cells that has never existed in nature in the 4 or 5 bilion years since the first cell came to be. Once it is a part of your cells, you cannot get rid of it. Here is one of many studies that show it does not seem to have good effects.http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/6/697.abstract "There are several other long term issues that his 2 month experiment did not reveal. High spikes of blood sugar tend to trigger insulin resistance, damage the blood vessels, amd contribute to fatty liver if you are prone to that. The other issue is trans-fat. Twinkies are loaded with it. This is used because it is not found in nature and it does not spoil because bacteria do not recognize it as food. The walls of all our cells are made of lipid (fat) compounds. The trans fats replace the natural lipids when cells divide leaving a component of our cells that has never existed in nature in the 4 or 5 bilion years since the first cell came to be. Once it is a part of your cells, you cannot get rid of it. Here is one of many studies that show it does not seem to have good effects. http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/6/697.abstract" I'm sure the unions can be blamed for this. ;) |
#95
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Union kills the twinkie
"Steve W." wrote in message ... PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of Hostess. Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their contracted customers. Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs. You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand. SEE Buggy whips WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases) NOPE Total revenues have been dropping since at least 2003: http://www.privco.com/private-compan...ess-brands-inc It's interesting to note that during this same time, the actual cost per unit produced ( COGS) decreased steadily.... Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE Lack of self control) In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass index (BMI) to within normal range. http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html -- Steve W. |
#96
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Union kills the twinkie
Stuart Wheaton wrote: On 11/20/2012 11:52 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: ? ? "Edward A. Falk" wrote: ?? ?? In article ?, azotic ? wrote: ?? ?? Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a ?? decade. ?? ?? In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune ?? of $150M/year. ?? ?? They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32% ?? ?? The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives ?? received 60-100% raises while filing for their second ?? bankruptcy. ?? ?? In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M ?? ?? So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure. ? ? ? Ler's see. They have ONE CEO, and 18,500 other employees. How much ? good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%? ? Cutting his salary by 8% instead of raising it by 300% would have yielded enough money to pay each of the 18,500 workers an additional $100. That is just the CEO, if the rest of the executives had taken a similar haircut, they might have been able to save the company, but since their goal was to loot it, it is really a moot point. So, on average that $100 would be about 3.33 hours overtime. |
#97
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Union kills the twinkie
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#98
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Union kills the twinkie
On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. i |
#99
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Union kills the twinkie
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:38:13 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? ================ This assumes that Hostess would have not gone chapter 7 in the near future anyhow. By going out now, they at least stopped any more looting of their pension plan, which is now short c. 982 million $US. In retrospect, the unions should have gone out at the first wage cut, or at least the first missed pension fund payment, which is not corporate largess but deferred wages. When the initial wage cuts is combined with the missed pension payments, the employees got well over a 50% wage cut. If you are willing to work for nothing you can indeed generally get a job. It is well to remember that cuts in wages and also cuts in taxes, and the rest of the taxpayers must make these up. Anyone know what kind of tax abatements or special financing Hostess got at tax payer expense? I would suggest that any interstate corporation that does not show a profit measured by paying net federal income tax, e.g. including carry forward tax losses, over a 5 year rolling period should be placed in automatic chapter 11 [reorganization] and the officers/directors replaced. If you are a for profit corporation, then you must show a profit, otherwise the corporation is just another tax wheeze, and a stockholders, employees, and creditors scam, and should be disolved or reorganized. |
#100
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Union kills the twinkie
Ignoramus1661 wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. Really? When they stated that the entire industry has excess production capacity? Why would they need that more workers? The other companies wouldn't need as may drives anyway. One union forced Hostess to use separate drives & vehicles for different products. Baked goods & snacks went from the bakery to the same stores with two sets of trucks & drivers. That's one of the things that shut the company down. |
#101
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Union kills the twinkie
On Nov 23, 4:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Ignoramus1661 wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. *Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. * *Really? *When they stated that the entire industry has excess production capacity? *Why would they need that more workers? * *The other companies wouldn't need as may drives anyway. *One union forced Hostess to use separate drives & vehicles for different products. *Baked goods & snacks went from the bakery to the same stores with two sets of trucks & drivers. *That's one of the things that shut the company down. Wrong again, Terrell. What killed Hostess was lack of innovation. See the links I posted stating as much. A large and ever growing number of people don't want to eat chemical based junk food like Twinkie's. Imagine if Hostess management had a ****ing clue and they had offered a healthy more expensive Twinkie. For sure I would have tried it. Tell us why Hostess refused to innovate, Terrell. Tell us how lack of innovation is the union's fault. You truly are a ****ing moron. |
#103
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Union kills the twinkie
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:10:18 -0600, Ignoramus1661
wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. Would _YOU_ hire a guy who just shot down his last company in flames? Me, either. -- Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people can handle it. -- Hugh Macleod |
#104
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Union kills the twinkie
On 2012-11-24, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:10:18 -0600, Ignoramus1661 wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. Would _YOU_ hire a guy who just shot down his last company in flames? Me, either. I would have no problems hiring a former Hostess driver, if he has a good driving record. Right now, I am not looking for a driver, of course, so this is hypothetical. My surplus trading experience, though, makes me rather scared of any kind of unions, though. i |
#105
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Union kills the twinkie
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:12:12 -0600, Ignoramus1661
wrote: On 2012-11-24, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:10:18 -0600, Ignoramus1661 wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. Would _YOU_ hire a guy who just shot down his last company in flames? Me, either. I would have no problems hiring a former Hostess driver, if he has a good driving record. Right now, I am not looking for a driver, of course, so this is hypothetical. My surplus trading experience, though, makes me rather scared of any kind of unions, though. i Smart man. Gunner The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
#106
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Union kills the twinkie
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:12:12 -0600, Ignoramus1661
wrote: snip My surplus trading experience, though, makes me rather scared of any kind of unions, though. snip While there are exceptions such as Hershey in the late 1930s, the general rule is companies get the type and amount of union they deserve. What goes around comes around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hershey_Company A problem union generally indicates a problem company [i.e. management], who frequently rely on "the union" to provide a scapegoat and excuse for their own failings and inertia. I have been in meetings where division management offered the excuse some local action (such as contracting out tool resharpening) could not be taken because of union opposition, until it was [again] pointed out to them our location did not have a union. They still did not take any action but stopped using that excuse (until the next opportunity). FWIW -- both Fortune 500 companies with this management mindset are now out of business. |
#107
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Union kills the twinkie
In article
, jon_banquer wrote: On Nov 23, 4:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Ignoramus1661 wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. *Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. * *Really? *When they stated that the entire industry has excess production capacity? *Why would they need that more workers? * *The other companies wouldn't need as may drives anyway. *One union forced Hostess to use separate drives & vehicles for different products. *Baked goods & snacks went from the bakery to the same stores with two sets of trucks & drivers. *That's one of the things that shut the company down. Wrong again, Terrell. What killed Hostess was lack of innovation. See the links I posted stating as much. A large and ever growing number of people don't want to eat chemical based junk food like Twinkie's. Imagine if Hostess management had a ****ing clue and they had offered a healthy more expensive Twinkie. For sure I would have tried it. Tell us why Hostess refused to innovate, Terrell. Tell us how lack of innovation is the union's fault. You truly are a ****ing moron. What's innovation got to do with it? Hostess was selling 300 million twinkies a year and making billions of dollars a year overall, and had been for years. That's plenty to support a company ... if they are able to keep costs under control. Nor do twinkie buyers *want* innovation. The product cannot change from what people recall from childhood. Remember New Coke? Joe Gwinn |
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Union kills the twinkie
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:12:12 -0600, Ignoramus1661
wrote: On 2012-11-24, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:10:18 -0600, Ignoramus1661 wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. Would _YOU_ hire a guy who just shot down his last company in flames? Me, either. I would have no problems hiring a former Hostess driver, if he has a good driving record. Right now, I am not looking for a driver, of course, so this is hypothetical. Interesting. Would you really? If I were in the position of hiring, I wouldn't knowingly hire a previously-unionized person (or other commie.) My surplus trading experience, though, makes me rather scared of any kind of unions, though. Smart man. Ditto here. I've seen too much for that. -- Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people can handle it. -- Hugh Macleod |
#109
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Union kills the twinkie
On Nov 24, 7:32*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , *jon_banquer wrote: On Nov 23, 4:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Ignoramus1661 wrote: On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says.... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. *Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. * *Really? *When they stated that the entire industry has excess production capacity? *Why would they need that more workers? * *The other companies wouldn't need as may drives anyway. *One union forced Hostess to use separate drives & vehicles for different products. *Baked goods & snacks went from the bakery to the same stores with two sets of trucks & drivers. *That's one of the things that shut the company down. Wrong again, Terrell. What killed Hostess was lack of innovation. See the links I posted stating as much. A large and ever growing number of people don't want to eat chemical based junk food like Twinkie's. Imagine if Hostess management had a ****ing clue and they had offered a healthy more expensive Twinkie. For sure I would have tried it. Tell us why Hostess refused to innovate, Terrell. Tell us how lack of innovation is the union's fault. You truly are a ****ing moron. What's innovation got to do with it? Hostess was selling 300 million twinkies a year and making billions of dollars a year overall, and had been for years. *That's plenty to support a company ... if they are able to keep costs under control. Nor do twinkie buyers *want* innovation. *The product cannot change from what people recall from childhood. *Remember New Coke? Joe Gwinn Lack of innovation has everything to do with Hostess going bankrupt: http://www.businessweek.com/articles...illed-twinkies "... But the real reason Hostess is going belly up is a problem that’s been brewing for more than 20 years: The company completely failed to innovate. In the 1960s and ’70s, Hostess was a staple in the lunchbox of many school kids. Many of us in the baby boomer generation grew up with sandwiches made from Wonder Bread and Hostess Twinkies or Ding Dongs for dessert. But over the past 20 years, most consumers moved away from these products due to changing views on healthy eating. As times change, brands and companies must evolve with them. Innovative marketers must continue to find ways to make their brands relevant through innovation. Hostess failed miserably at this—even though it was becoming painfully obvious that consumers were walking away. There are plenty of examples of marketers who overcame stagnant or declining business trends by developing solid innovation programs. Clorox (CLX), for instance, turned its stodgy bleach business into a $1 billion cleaning-products line by introducing new items that are more relevant to today’s consumer, such as Disinfecting Wipes, the ToiletWand, and the eco-friendly Green Works line. Campbell Soup (CPB) has kept its business relevant by coming out with a steady stream of innovation beyond basic canned soup. It now offers microwaveable versions, portable packaging, healthier options, and other meal solutions. Procter & Gamble (PG) turned Oil of Olay, once considered a geriatric brand, into a fast-growing, billion-dollar personal-care line by introducing innovative products with greater appeal, such as the Olay Regenerist anti-aging cleansers and moisturizers. All of these transformations came as a result of relatively modest investments in innovation. If Hostess had put a little more effort into innovation at any point during the past 20 years, it would not be where it is today." |
#110
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Union kills the twinkie
"Ignoramus1661" wrote in message ... On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. i One would think so, but I do hear a lot of crying about not being able to find work. I hear this mostly from college educated people who insist on finding work in their educational degreed niche. I am 64, beat up, worn out, barely functioning, and I bet $1,000 that if I went to the oilfield areas in ND or surrounding states that I would be working in less than a week. Lots of people want a job, but few are willing to work. Steve |
#111
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Union kills the twinkie
"jon_banquer" wrote Terrell ........ You truly are a ****ing moron. No, Jon. You are a moron for continuing to banter with this idiot. Steve |
#112
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Union kills the twinkie
"Ignoramus1661" wrote My surplus trading experience, though, makes me rather scared of any kind of unions, though. i In my welding business, I did not ever hire one person who had been a union member. They all eliminated themselves when they put starting wage at about three times going rate. Steve |
#113
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Union kills the twinkie
On 2012-11-24, Steve B wrote:
"Ignoramus1661" wrote in message ... On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year: So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"? The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers and, I assume, steady demand for bakers. i One would think so, but I do hear a lot of crying about not being able to find work. I hear this mostly from college educated people who insist on finding work in their educational degreed niche. I am 64, beat up, worn out, barely functioning, and I bet $1,000 that if I went to the oilfield areas in ND or surrounding states that I would be working in less than a week. Lots of people want a job, but few are willing to work. This is mostly true. There is a guy who works for a company that exchanges used car batteries. We used their services at some point. Hs job is to drive a beat up flatbed pick-up truck, load used batteries and unload refurbished batteries. I chatted with him once and he told me that is formerly was a banker. i |
#114
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Union kills the twinkie
On Nov 24, 1:08*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote Terrell ........ You truly are a ****ing moron. No, Jon. *You are a moron for continuing to banter with this idiot. Steve You might be right about that. |
#115
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Union kills the twinkie
Steve B wrote: "jon_banquer" wrote Terrell ........ You truly are a ****ing moron. No, Jon. You are a moron for continuing to banter with this idiot. Back in the kill file, bitch. That's the problem with changing computers. You're number 41 for this group, and I'm still not caught up. |
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