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Default Union kills the twinkie


"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.


We know. No one else would hire you.


Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
shop I know of would ever hire you.

---

Thanks jon much appreciated but I have to add that here that only a very few
could actually afford to do so.

BTW have you seen the latest issue of "production machining magazine" ?

--Advertiser content is great but editorial is like at the 7th grade level
IMO


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Default Union kills the twinkie


PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
Hostess.


Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their
contracted customers.


Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing
the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union
strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of
them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit.
**** 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs.


You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.



You mean the other brands they owned that produced some of the best
whole wheat bread in the area? I guess you lefties are spending all
your money on beer & cheap wine instead of bread. 200 people will be out
of work at the Merita Bread bakery in Orlando.
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PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.


We know. No one else would hire you.


Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
shop I know of would ever hire you.



I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.
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Default Union kills the twinkie


PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.


We know. No one else would hire you.


You don't ****ing know jack **** about me, Terrell.



You present yourself as an angry, poorly educated idiot. On that no
one would put up with at any normal business.
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On Nov 20, 7:54*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
....
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:


I'm self-employed, you moron.


We know. No one else would hire you.


Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
shop I know of would ever hire you.


* *I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.



The more you post the clearer it becomes how much of a worthless loser
you truly are.


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"Edward A. Falk" wrote:

In article , azotic wrote:

Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
decade.

In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
of $150M/year.

They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%

The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
bankruptcy.

In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M

So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.



Ler's see. They have ONE CEO, and 18,500 other employees. How much
good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%?
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Default What Killed Twinkies

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...illed-twinkies

"There are plenty of culprits in the recent bankruptcy and closure of
Hostess Brands, including weak management, short-sighted labor unions,
and poor judgment by investors. But the real reason Hostess is going
belly up is a problem that’s been brewing for more than 20 years: The
company completely failed to innovate.

In the 1960s and ’70s, Hostess was a staple in the lunchbox of many
school kids. Many of us in the baby boomer generation grew up with
sandwiches made from Wonder Bread and Hostess Twinkies or Ding Dongs
for dessert. But over the past 20 years, most consumers moved away
from these products due to changing views on healthy eating.

As times change, brands and companies must evolve with them.
Innovative marketers must continue to find ways to make their brands
relevant through innovation. Hostess failed miserably at this—even
though it was becoming painfully obvious that consumers were walking
away.

There are plenty of examples of marketers who overcame stagnant or
declining business trends by developing solid innovation programs.
Clorox (CLX), for instance, turned its stodgy bleach business into a
$1 billion cleaning-products line by introducing new items that are
more relevant to today’s consumer, such as Disinfecting Wipes, the
ToiletWand, and the eco-friendly Green Works line.

Campbell Soup (CPB) has kept its business relevant by coming out with
a steady stream of innovation beyond basic canned soup. It now offers
microwaveable versions, portable packaging, healthier options, and
other meal solutions.

Procter & Gamble (PG) turned Oil of Olay, once considered a geriatric
brand, into a fast-growing, billion-dollar personal-care line by
introducing innovative products with greater appeal, such as the Olay
Regenerist anti-aging cleansers and moisturizers.

All of these transformations came as a result of relatively modest
investments in innovation. If Hostess had put a little more effort
into innovation at any point during the past 20 years, it would not be
where it is today."
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Default Union kills the twinkie

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new
products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with
the downfall of Hostess.

Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill
their contracted customers.

Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union
pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled.
The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the
states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked
off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! Let the union pay them until
they find burgerflip jobs.


You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.

SEE

Buggy whips



WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when
they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases)

Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE
Lack of self control)

In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience
store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an
attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure
calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the
food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass
index (BMI) to within normal range.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html

--
Steve W.
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Default Union kills the twinkie

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

I'm self-employed, you moron.

We know. No one else would hire you.


Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
shop I know of would ever hire you.



I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.


I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of
business.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
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Default Union kills the twinkie


Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
??
?? "jon_banquer" ? wrote in message
?? ...
?? On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
?? wrote:
?? ? PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
?? ?
?? ? ? I'm self-employed, you moron.
?? ?
?? ? We know. No one else would hire you.
??
?? Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
?? shop I know of would ever hire you.
?
?
? I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.

I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of
business.



No doubt, considering that all their tools came from Playskool, or
Fisher-Price.


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On Nov 20, 12:42*pm, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"









wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:


"jon_banquer" wrote in message
....
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:


I'm self-employed, you moron.


We know. No one else would hire you.


Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
shop I know of would ever hire you.


* I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.


I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of
business.

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie


By your own admission you're not a machinist. It's crystal clear that
you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to machining,
CADCAM, employees, etc.
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"Steve W." wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new
products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with
the downfall of Hostess.

Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill
their contracted customers.
Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union
pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled.
The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the
states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked
off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! Let the union pay them until
they find burgerflip jobs.


You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.

SEE

Buggy whips



WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when
they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases)

Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE
Lack of self control)

In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience
store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an
attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure
calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the
food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass
index (BMI) to within normal range.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html

--
Steve W.


Total sales for the Hostess group have been steadily dropping
http://www.privco.com/private-compan...ess-brands-inc

Regarding Prof. Haubs demonstration, I presume he made sure to eat an
adequate amount of protein as well as other micronutrients. One issue with
junk food is that empty calories leave your body craving more food to get
nutrients that it is missing. Not all these nutrients can be found in a pill
either.

There are several other long term issues that his 2 month experiment did not
reveal. High spikes of blood sugar tend to trigger insulin resistance,
damage the blood vessels, amd contribute to fatty liver if you are prone to
that. The other issue is trans-fat. Twinkies are loaded with it. This is
used because it is not found in nature and it does not spoil because
bacteria do not recognize it as food. The walls of all our cells are made
of lipid (fat) compounds. The trans fats replace the natural lipids when
cells divide leaving a component of our cells that has never existed in
nature in the 4 or 5 bilion years since the first cell came to be. Once it
is a part of your cells, you cannot get rid of it. Here is one of many
studies that show it does not seem to have good effects.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/6/697.abstract


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On 11/20/2012 11:52 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Edward A. Falk" wrote:

In article , azotic wrote:

Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
decade.

In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
of $150M/year.

They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%

The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
bankruptcy.

In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M

So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.



Ler's see. They have ONE CEO, and 18,500 other employees. How much
good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%?


Cutting his salary by 8% instead of raising it by 300% would have
yielded enough money to pay each of the 18,500 workers an additional
$100. That is just the CEO, if the rest of the executives had taken a
similar haircut, they might have been able to save the company, but
since their goal was to loot it, it is really a moot point.

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On Nov 20, 1:20*pm, "anorton"
wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message

...









PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new
products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with
the downfall of Hostess.


Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill
their contracted customers.
Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union
pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled.
The union strike was the last straw. *Like I said, I hope the
states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked
off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! *Let the union pay them until
they find burgerflip jobs.


You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.


SEE


Buggy whips


WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when
they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases)


Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE
Lack of self control)


In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience
store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an
attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure
calorie counting is what matters most not the nutritional value of the
food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass
index (BMI) to within normal range.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html


--
Steve W.


Total sales for the Hostess group have been steadily droppinghttp://www.privco.com/private-company/hostess-brands-inc

Regarding Prof. Haubs demonstration, I presume he made sure to eat an
adequate amount of protein as well as other micronutrients. One issue with
junk food is that empty calories leave your body craving more food to get
nutrients that it is missing. Not all these nutrients can be found in a pill
either.

There are several other long term issues that his 2 month experiment did not
reveal. High spikes of blood sugar tend to trigger insulin resistance,
damage the blood vessels, amd contribute to fatty liver if you are prone to
that. The other issue is trans-fat. Twinkies are loaded with it. This is
used because it is not found in nature and it does not spoil because
bacteria do not recognize it as food. *The walls of all our cells are made
of lipid (fat) compounds. The trans fats replace the natural lipids when
cells divide leaving a component of our cells that has never existed in
nature in the 4 or 5 bilion years since the first cell came to be. Once it
is a part of your cells, you cannot get rid of it. Here is one of many
studies that show it does not seem to have good effects.http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/6/697.abstract


"There are several other long term issues that his 2 month experiment
did not
reveal. High spikes of blood sugar tend to trigger insulin resistance,
damage the blood vessels, amd contribute to fatty liver if you are
prone to
that. The other issue is trans-fat. Twinkies are loaded with it. This
is
used because it is not found in nature and it does not spoil because
bacteria do not recognize it as food. The walls of all our cells are
made
of lipid (fat) compounds. The trans fats replace the natural lipids
when
cells divide leaving a component of our cells that has never existed
in
nature in the 4 or 5 bilion years since the first cell came to be.
Once it
is a part of your cells, you cannot get rid of it. Here is one of many
studies that show it does not seem to have good effects.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/6/697.abstract"

I'm sure the unions can be blamed for this. ;)





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"Steve W." wrote in message ...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new
products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with
the downfall of Hostess.

Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill
their contracted customers.
Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union
pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled.
The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the
states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked
off the job. They quit. **** 'EM! Let the union pay them until
they find burgerflip jobs.


You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.

SEE

Buggy whips



WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when
they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases)


NOPE

Total revenues have been dropping since at least 2003:

http://www.privco.com/private-compan...ess-brands-inc

It's interesting to note that during this same time, the actual cost per unit produced ( COGS) decreased steadily....

Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE
Lack of self control)

In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience
store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an
attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure
calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the
food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass
index (BMI) to within normal range.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html

--
Steve W.



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Stuart Wheaton wrote:

On 11/20/2012 11:52 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?
? "Edward A. Falk" wrote:
??
?? In article ?, azotic ? wrote:
??
?? Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
?? decade.
??
?? In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
?? of $150M/year.
??
?? They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%
??
?? The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
?? received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
?? bankruptcy.
??
?? In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M
??
?? So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.
?
?
? Ler's see. They have ONE CEO, and 18,500 other employees. How much
? good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%?
?

Cutting his salary by 8% instead of raising it by 300% would have
yielded enough money to pay each of the 18,500 workers an additional
$100. That is just the CEO, if the rest of the executives had taken a
similar haircut, they might have been able to save the company, but
since their goal was to loot it, it is really a moot point.



So, on average that $100 would be about 3.33 hours overtime.
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On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:38:13 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , says...
A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year
to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:


So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"?

================

This assumes that Hostess would have not gone chapter 7 in
the near future anyhow.

By going out now, they at least stopped any more looting of
their pension plan, which is now short c. 982 million $US.
In retrospect, the unions should have gone out at the first
wage cut, or at least the first missed pension fund payment,
which is not corporate largess but deferred wages. When the
initial wage cuts is combined with the missed pension
payments, the employees got well over a 50% wage cut. If
you are willing to work for nothing you can indeed generally
get a job. It is well to remember that cuts in wages and
also cuts in taxes, and the rest of the taxpayers must make
these up. Anyone know what kind of tax abatements or
special financing Hostess got at tax payer expense?

I would suggest that any interstate corporation that does
not show a profit measured by paying net federal income tax,
e.g. including carry forward tax losses, over a 5 year
rolling period should be placed in automatic chapter 11
[reorganization] and the officers/directors replaced. If
you are a for profit corporation, then you must show a
profit, otherwise the corporation is just another tax
wheeze, and a stockholders, employees, and creditors scam,
and should be disolved or reorganized.


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On Nov 23, 4:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Ignoramus1661 wrote:

On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , says...
A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year
to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:


So instead he gets 0 a year. *Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"?


The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have
no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers
and, I assume, steady demand for bakers.


* *Really? *When they stated that the entire industry has excess
production capacity? *Why would they need that more workers?

* *The other companies wouldn't need as may drives anyway. *One union
forced Hostess to use separate drives & vehicles for different
products. *Baked goods & snacks went from the bakery to the same stores
with two sets of trucks & drivers. *That's one of the things that shut
the company down.


Wrong again, Terrell. What killed Hostess was lack of innovation. See
the links I posted stating as much. A large and ever growing number of
people don't want to eat chemical based junk food like Twinkie's.
Imagine if Hostess management had a ****ing clue and they had offered
a healthy more expensive Twinkie. For sure I would have tried it. Tell
us why Hostess refused to innovate, Terrell. Tell us how lack of
innovation is the union's fault.

You truly are a ****ing moron.


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On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:49:23 +0000 (UTC), (Edward A.
Falk) wrote:

In article , azotic wrote:

Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
decade.

In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
of $150M/year.

They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%

The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
bankruptcy.

In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M

So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.

A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year
to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...ostess-Bankery

It's what I would expect of the Daily Kos. They conveniently paper
over the other problems. like massive featherbedding by the Teamsters
and other unions that they worked with...

Hostess had bought several brands over the years, and they all came
with their own different Union Contracts that had to be honored -
which usually meant keeping a separate distribution fleet for each
brand and product line. The Sweets (Twinkie) drivers couldn't deliver
Bread products, and vice versa. Which meant massive inefficiencies in
the delivery chain, with a half dozen different trucks visiting the
same stores.

And the delivery drivers were just that - Delivering to the Back Rooms
of the stores only. They needed to send out a separate Stocker to
take the product out and put it on the store shelves, and pull the
outdate product to take back to the warehouse. And separate stockers
for each product line.

Oh, and the drivers can't load their own trucks, that's a separate
classification. And they had different loaders for each of the
different product lines.

And each of these separate contracts had Healthcare and Pension costs
in "Pooled" accounts between multiple employers, where the healthy
companies are dinged more to support the weak companies - and you
could never get a straight answer about what the costs actually were.
Deliberately muddied so they'd get paid.

If they could get rid of that mess so they had One crew of loaders
that did all the trucks, and more Drivers who would service all the
various Breads and Sweets and Specialty products at the store straight
to the shelves and pull the out-dates all by themselves, they could
slash the costs and provide MORE jobs...

Each route Driver serves fewer stores per week because he spends more
time there, so all of the former Stockers and Loaders become Drivers
and get their own store route to service. Sales go way Up because
the product will be there where it's needed, and costs go down because
it's only handled once.

Now Hostess should have been able to get the labor contracts modified
or tossed in Bankruptcy Court, but I'll bet you they were warned not
to touch them by the Teamsters or they'd all walk. But it seems the
Bakers Union pushed them all in front of the bus first.

-- Bruce --
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Default Union kills the twinkie

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:12:12 -0600, Ignoramus1661
wrote:

snip
My surplus trading experience, though, makes me rather scared of any
kind of unions, though.

snip

While there are exceptions such as Hershey in the late
1930s, the general rule is companies get the type and amount
of union they deserve. What goes around comes around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hershey_Company

A problem union generally indicates a problem company [i.e.
management], who frequently rely on "the union" to provide a
scapegoat and excuse for their own failings and inertia. I
have been in meetings where division management offered the
excuse some local action (such as contracting out tool
resharpening) could not be taken because of union
opposition, until it was [again] pointed out to them our
location did not have a union. They still did not take any
action but stopped using that excuse (until the next
opportunity). FWIW -- both Fortune 500 companies with this
management mindset are now out of business.


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Default Union kills the twinkie

In article
,
jon_banquer wrote:

On Nov 23, 4:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Ignoramus1661 wrote:

On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , says...
A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from
$43k/year
to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:


So instead he gets 0 a year. *Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"?


The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have
no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers
and, I assume, steady demand for bakers.


* *Really? *When they stated that the entire industry has excess
production capacity? *Why would they need that more workers?

* *The other companies wouldn't need as may drives anyway. *One union
forced Hostess to use separate drives & vehicles for different
products. *Baked goods & snacks went from the bakery to the same stores
with two sets of trucks & drivers. *That's one of the things that shut
the company down.


Wrong again, Terrell. What killed Hostess was lack of innovation. See
the links I posted stating as much. A large and ever growing number of
people don't want to eat chemical based junk food like Twinkie's.
Imagine if Hostess management had a ****ing clue and they had offered
a healthy more expensive Twinkie. For sure I would have tried it. Tell
us why Hostess refused to innovate, Terrell. Tell us how lack of
innovation is the union's fault.

You truly are a ****ing moron.


What's innovation got to do with it?

Hostess was selling 300 million twinkies a year and making billions of
dollars a year overall, and had been for years. That's plenty to
support a company ... if they are able to keep costs under control.

Nor do twinkie buyers *want* innovation. The product cannot change from
what people recall from childhood. Remember New Coke?

Joe Gwinn
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Default Union kills the twinkie

On Nov 24, 7:32*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article
,









*jon_banquer wrote:
On Nov 23, 4:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Ignoramus1661 wrote:


On 2012-11-23, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , says....
A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from
$43k/year
to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:


So instead he gets 0 a year. *Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"?


The people who worked for Hostess, like drivers or bakers, should have
no problem finding another job. There is a huge demand for drivers
and, I assume, steady demand for bakers.


* *Really? *When they stated that the entire industry has excess
production capacity? *Why would they need that more workers?


* *The other companies wouldn't need as may drives anyway. *One union
forced Hostess to use separate drives & vehicles for different
products. *Baked goods & snacks went from the bakery to the same stores
with two sets of trucks & drivers. *That's one of the things that shut
the company down.


Wrong again, Terrell. What killed Hostess was lack of innovation. See
the links I posted stating as much. A large and ever growing number of
people don't want to eat chemical based junk food like Twinkie's.
Imagine if Hostess management had a ****ing clue and they had offered
a healthy more expensive Twinkie. For sure I would have tried it. Tell
us why Hostess refused to innovate, Terrell. Tell us how lack of
innovation is the union's fault.


You truly are a ****ing moron.


What's innovation got to do with it?

Hostess was selling 300 million twinkies a year and making billions of
dollars a year overall, and had been for years. *That's plenty to
support a company ... if they are able to keep costs under control.

Nor do twinkie buyers *want* innovation. *The product cannot change from
what people recall from childhood. *Remember New Coke?

Joe Gwinn


Lack of innovation has everything to do with Hostess going bankrupt:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...illed-twinkies

"... But the real reason Hostess is going belly up is a problem that’s
been brewing for more than 20 years: The company completely failed to
innovate.

In the 1960s and ’70s, Hostess was a staple in the lunchbox of many
school kids. Many of us in the baby boomer generation grew up with
sandwiches made from Wonder Bread and Hostess Twinkies or Ding Dongs
for dessert. But over the past 20 years, most consumers moved away
from these products due to changing views on healthy eating.

As times change, brands and companies must evolve with them.
Innovative marketers must continue to find ways to make their brands
relevant through innovation. Hostess failed miserably at this—even
though it was becoming painfully obvious that consumers were walking
away.

There are plenty of examples of marketers who overcame stagnant or
declining business trends by developing solid innovation programs.
Clorox (CLX), for instance, turned its stodgy bleach business into a
$1 billion cleaning-products line by introducing new items that are
more relevant to today’s consumer, such as Disinfecting Wipes, the
ToiletWand, and the eco-friendly Green Works line.

Campbell Soup (CPB) has kept its business relevant by coming out with
a steady stream of innovation beyond basic canned soup. It now offers
microwaveable versions, portable packaging, healthier options, and
other meal solutions.

Procter & Gamble (PG) turned Oil of Olay, once considered a geriatric
brand, into a fast-growing, billion-dollar personal-care line by
introducing innovative products with greater appeal, such as the Olay
Regenerist anti-aging cleansers and moisturizers.

All of these transformations came as a result of relatively modest
investments in innovation. If Hostess had put a little more effort
into innovation at any point during the past 20 years, it would not be
where it is today."
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Default Union kills the twinkie


"jon_banquer" wrote

Terrell ........

You truly are a ****ing moron.

No, Jon. You are a moron for continuing to banter with this idiot.

Steve



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Default Union kills the twinkie


"Ignoramus1661" wrote

My surplus trading experience, though, makes me rather scared of any
kind of unions, though.

i


In my welding business, I did not ever hire one person who had been a union
member. They all eliminated themselves when they put starting wage at about
three times going rate.

Steve


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Default Union kills the twinkie

On Nov 24, 1:08*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote

Terrell ........

You truly are a ****ing moron.

No, Jon. *You are a moron for continuing to banter with this idiot.

Steve


You might be right about that.
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Default Union kills the twinkie


Steve B wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote

Terrell ........

You truly are a ****ing moron.

No, Jon. You are a moron for continuing to banter with this idiot.



Back in the kill file, bitch. That's the problem with changing
computers. You're number 41 for this group, and I'm still not caught
up.
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