I am a tool freak lol. Also, I live in the country with the nearest
town about 12 miles away and that one is a small one with only 1-2
shops other than wal mart that can change tires or repair flats.

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at home? Is
a used balancer on craigslist easy to come by? Is a professional tire
mounter necessary or would one of those TSC manual tire changers
suffice? I also have seen those bubble balancers but have heard they
dont work well for balancing automotive tires. Is this true? My wife
is needing some tires on her escape and it got me thinking. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not. Part of the reasoning is my time.
Everything around here closes at noon on Saturday and Saturday seems
to be my only day available anymore.

On Sun, 6 May 2012 04:56:25 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I am a tool freak lol. Also, I live in the country with the nearest
town about 12 miles away and that one is a small one with only 1-2
shops other than wal mart that can change tires or repair flats.

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at home? Is
a used balancer on craigslist easy to come by? Is a professional tire
mounter necessary or would one of those TSC manual tire changers
suffice? I also have seen those bubble balancers but have heard they
dont work well for balancing automotive tires. Is this true? My wife
is needing some tires on her escape and it got me thinking. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not. Part of the reasoning is my time.
Everything around here closes at noon on Saturday and Saturday seems
to be my only day available anymore.

I got an old Coates tire machine at an old service station auction.
Very handy addition to my tool list. Smaller tires on today's big rims
are actually harder to do, might be tuff on a hand machine.

I use the bubble balancer. they work great, the trouble with them is
they are slow and putsy. Business went to dyanimic balancing mostly
because of speed to do one tire and little training to get it right.

The biggest problem I've had with my own tire changing system is
getting rid of the old tires, they build up.

Karl

"stryped" wrote in message
...

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at home?

I made a truck tire balancer on my lathe consisting of a plug that
fits the center hole in the rim, with a bolt through the middle
center-drilled for the female balance pivot, and an upright hardened
and pointed pin as the male pivot. The bolt raises or lowers the tire
to adjust sensitivity.

I hadn't noticed that a concealed shock mount had rusted out and
balanced the tires to better than ~1/2 ounce to cure the vibration.

jsw

"stryped" wrote in message
...

I am a tool freak lol. Also, I live in the country with the nearest
town about 12 miles away and that one is a small one with only 1-2
shops other than wal mart that can change tires or repair flats.

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at home? Is
a used balancer on craigslist easy to come by? Is a professional tire
mounter necessary or would one of those TSC manual tire changers
suffice? I also have seen those bubble balancers but have heard they
dont work well for balancing automotive tires. Is this true? My wife
is needing some tires on her escape and it got me thinking. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not. Part of the reasoning is my time.
Everything around here closes at noon on Saturday and Saturday seems
to be my only day available anymore.

Are you looking for a dynamic spin balancer? Most I have seen are pretty
pricey.

If you order tires online I would recommend getting pricing from multiple
places for mounting and balancing. At work (a tire manufacturing plant) we
get an employee discount but we have to buy our tires online through
tirerack.com. The plant checked several local places for tire installation,
the lowest price they found was $10 per tire for mounting and balancing,
this was from a car dealer. I was surprised that a car dealer was lower
than Wal-Mart but I think Wal-Marts service may include lifetime rotation
and balance.

Around 35 or so years ago my brother worked at a filling station, they did
tire changing and balancing, I went there and helped some. All they had at
first was a tire changer similar to TSC's manual changer, it worked fine but
the soap seemed to be the key ingredient. Soap up the bead and it worked,
try without the soap and it was very difficult if not impossible.

We have automatic machines at work that check tire balance, they have a
spindle with load cells and an encoder. For calibrating it spins the
spindle without a tire and records the load cell readings at encoder spindle
positions. Then we place a calibration weight on one side of the stepped
chuck (wheel) and it "learns" the difference. Then the weight is placed on
the other side and it "learns" that difference. In operation it uses the
calibration data and magic math to determine the tires out of balance amount
and angle.

If you're looking for a project you could come up with an encoded spindle
that runs in bearings mounted to load cells. Then a couple of load cell
amps, and encoder interfaced to a controller to take readings of each load
cell at various angles, figure out the math and indicate a balance weight
and position for the light side. Our older style auto-balancer uses an
airplane tire to contact the spindle and spin it up to speed, then the
airplane tire retracts so the spindle if free wheeling, keeps motors, belts,
pulleys, from messing with the balance reading. The newer style balancers
seem to have a direct drive servo motor.

RogerN

On Sun, 6 May 2012 08:01:32 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

tirerack.com

Roger, Can you order online and specify a different shipping address?

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 6 May 2012 08:01:32 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

tirerack.com

Roger, Can you order online and specify a different shipping address?

Karl

Yes, a co-worker ordered a few sets of tires and had them shipped to his
brothers store since there is someone there all day. The biggest danger
would be if you were to get a bad tire and have to ship it back, the savings
would probably be lost.

RogerN

On Sun, 6 May 2012 04:56:25 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I am a tool freak lol. Also, I live in the country with the nearest
town about 12 miles away and that one is a small one with only 1-2
shops other than wal mart that can change tires or repair flats.

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at home? Is
a used balancer on craigslist easy to come by? Is a professional tire
mounter necessary or would one of those TSC manual tire changers
suffice? I also have seen those bubble balancers but have heard they
dont work well for balancing automotive tires. Is this true? My wife
is needing some tires on her escape and it got me thinking. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not. Part of the reasoning is my time.
Everything around here closes at noon on Saturday and Saturday seems
to be my only day available anymore.
Armstrong tire changer is fine - and a bubble balancer will do a
great job of "static" balancing a wheel. What it cannot do is a
"dynamic" ballance - which ballances the tire from inside to outside
as well. Great for rear tires, but sometimes you need dynamic on the
front to eliminate shimmy.

On Sun, 6 May 2012 04:56:25 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

.. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not.

I will not buy a new tire sight unseen from anybody. Some years ago I
was part of an electrical crew that wired a new tire dealership. It
took a couple of truck loads of new tires to fill his racks. The
tires were unloaded and put in the racks by a temporarily hired crew
of laborers. He found out later that the distributor had sent him all
of his inventory of returned new tires. They looked new but were
almost impossible to balance. The correct way to receive a shipment
tires is to examine every one for take off marks and refuse delivery.

wrote in message
...
...
Armstrong tire changer is fine - and a bubble balancer will do a
great job of "static" balancing a wheel. What it cannot do is a
"dynamic" ballance - which ballances the tire from inside to outside
as well. Great for rear tires, but sometimes you need dynamic on the
front to eliminate shimmy.

While I have no independent proof, I think my pinpoint balancer that
supports the wheel barely above its three-dimensional center of
gravity detects dynamic unbalance when the wheel is rotated. IIRC it
wobbled when spun by hand, after arranging the weights for static
balance.

While I was adjusting the balance I noticed the rusted-out shock
mount. I replaced the spring hanger and probably made the truck much
less sensitive to imbalance.

jsw

RogerN wrote:
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 6 May 2012 08:01:32 -0500, wrote:

tirerack.com

Roger, Can you order online and specify a different shipping address?

Karl

Yes, a co-worker ordered a few sets of tires and had them shipped to his
brothers store since there is someone there all day. The biggest danger
would be if you were to get a bad tire and have to ship it back, the savings
would probably be lost.

Yup. I got a bum tire from them a few years ago
and had to fork over the price difference.

Ouch.

--Winston

Usual suspect wrote:

(...)

The correct way to receive a shipment tires is to examine every one
for take off marks and refuse delivery.

"take off marks" ?

Sidewall or bead scrapes indicating the tire had been mounted previously?

--Winston

stryped writes:

I am a tool freak lol. Also, I live in the country with the nearest
town about 12 miles away and that one is a small one with only 1-2
shops other than wal mart that can change tires or repair flats.

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at
home?

I can not believe you can do a good job without a $$$$ spin-balancer.

Mart-of-Walls has a "lifetime balancing" warranty on new tires
they mount. Bring in the tirerack tires.

Be prepared for their tactics, however. They will be too busy;
leave the car. The tires are too old, they are dry rotting. They
are too bald, you must buy new ones. I stood them down on each.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

stryped wrote:
I am a tool freak lol. Also, I live in the country with the nearest
town about 12 miles away and that one is a small one with only 1-2
shops other than wal mart that can change tires or repair flats.

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at home? Is
a used balancer on craigslist easy to come by? Is a professional tire
mounter necessary or would one of those TSC manual tire changers
suffice? I also have seen those bubble balancers but have heard they
dont work well for balancing automotive tires. Is this true? My wife
is needing some tires on her escape and it got me thinking. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not. Part of the reasoning is my time.
Everything around here closes at noon on Saturday and Saturday seems
to be my only day available anymore.

I have used a manual tire changer (looks just like the one HF sells but
in green). Never had a problem with any of the normal tires from lawn
tractor up to 21" Had done them before that with a bead breaker and a
pair of irons. I do use regular tire lube (basically it's the same stuff
as KY just more liquid) For balancing I use a bubble balancer. The thing
with them is that you HAVE to pay attention to what you're doing. Clean
the seat on the rim very well and make sure the center hole is OK. I
actually liked the one I had for a while that didn't seat on the center
hole, it had cones that seated in the lug nut holes instead. With either
one start out with them on a level surface. The instructions tell you
that level isn't really needed because they run on a point but it does
make it easier. Do invest in a set of weight pliers they make it much
easier to remove and add weight.
When you do balance the tire put it on the balancer, set the weight in
place (not clipped on though) then pick the tire straight up and rotate
the balancer then set the tire back down and check it. if it is still OK
then clip the weights (split the weight front and back on the rim, not
all on one side.

My usual procedure is to remove the tire/rim from the vehicle. strip the
weights, clean the seat area and lug seats. Then remove the tire and
clean the entire rim. Now set the bare rim on the balancer. With a stem
in it should be just a bit heavy on the stem side. Now remove the old
stem, clean that hole and install the new stem. (unless it has TPMS) Set
the tire in place and apply some lube. Install the tire and wipe any
excess lube/dirt off. Check the treads for dirt/stickers/crud. Then
balance the tire. Install the weights and install the tire/rim back on
the vehicle.

Ordering tires online works BUT you can also hit Wal~Marts site and have
them do a site to store sale and get a LOT of different tires they don't
stock normally. Saves a LOT of shipping money.
They will install/balance them as well. Just be sure the tires match the
tires on the vehicles door tag. They have a policy of not installing
tires if the tag doesn't match for liability reasons.

--
Steve W.

Winston wrote:
Usual suspect wrote:

(...)

The correct way to receive a shipment tires is to examine every one
for take off marks and refuse delivery.

"take off marks" ?

Sidewall or bead scrapes indicating the tire had been mounted previously?

--Winston

Those as well as any indication of odd tags since there are a lot of ID
marks on the tags that need to match the tire.

--
Steve W.

Steve W. wrote:
Winston wrote:
Usual suspect wrote:

(...)

The correct way to receive a shipment tires is to examine every one
for take off marks and refuse delivery.

"take off marks" ?

Sidewall or bead scrapes indicating the tire had been mounted previously?

--Winston

Those as well as any indication of odd tags since there are a lot of ID
marks on the tags that need to match the tire.

OIC. Thanks.

--Winston

I've also found that on 4WD, they will only install two tires of the same
size as what's already on.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Steve W." wrote in message
...

They will install/balance them as well. Just be sure the tires match the
tires on the vehicles door tag. They have a policy of not installing
tires if the tag doesn't match for liability reasons.

--
Steve W.

I've done it. JC Whitney used to have a tire balancer, which had a bubble in
the center. One friend of mine had one, so I ordered one. The one they
shipped was junk, and broke instantly under use. Farm and Garden place may
have a reasonable one. Sometimes you may be able to find one sale, used.

Mounting and dismounting can be done with a bumper jack, heavy vehicle for
break down. Couple of tire spoons, or big screw drivers.

Farmer Bob, friend of mine, since retired. Used to mount his own tires cause
he could have it done in the same ammount of time as going to town.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I am a tool freak lol. Also, I live in the country with the nearest
town about 12 miles away and that one is a small one with only 1-2
shops other than wal mart that can change tires or repair flats.

Is it economically feasable to mount and balance car tires at home? Is
a used balancer on craigslist easy to come by? Is a professional tire
mounter necessary or would one of those TSC manual tire changers
suffice? I also have seen those bubble balancers but have heard they
dont work well for balancing automotive tires. Is this true? My wife
is needing some tires on her escape and it got me thinking. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not. Part of the reasoning is my time.
Everything around here closes at noon on Saturday and Saturday seems
to be my only day available anymore.

On Sun, 6 May 2012 12:32:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
...
Armstrong tire changer is fine - and a bubble balancer will do a
great job of "static" balancing a wheel. What it cannot do is a
"dynamic" ballance - which ballances the tire from inside to outside
as well. Great for rear tires, but sometimes you need dynamic on the
front to eliminate shimmy.

While I have no independent proof, I think my pinpoint balancer that
supports the wheel barely above its three-dimensional center of
gravity detects dynamic unbalance when the wheel is rotated. IIRC it
wobbled when spun by hand, after arranging the weights for static
balance.

Can't

While I was adjusting the balance I noticed the rusted-out shock
mount. I replaced the spring hanger and probably made the truck much
less sensitive to imbalance.

jsw

On Sun, 6 May 2012 12:32:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
...
Armstrong tire changer is fine - and a bubble balancer will do a
great job of "static" balancing a wheel. What it cannot do is a
"dynamic" ballance - which ballances the tire from inside to outside
as well. Great for rear tires, but sometimes you need dynamic on the
front to eliminate shimmy.

While I have no independent proof, I think my pinpoint balancer that
supports the wheel barely above its three-dimensional center of
gravity detects dynamic unbalance when the wheel is rotated. IIRC it
wobbled when spun by hand, after arranging the weights for static
balance.

Jim, do you already split the weight (using half inside and half
outside the rim) when you balance? That can fix quite a few of the
dynamic imbalances by itself. Another trick is to split large weights
(3+ ounces, more often found on older truck tires) into two different
lots set about 25 degrees apart, centered on either side of the
imbalance (or 4, 2in/2out.) Man, I haven't thought about doing that
for 30 years... Luckily, new tires seldom have very large imbalances.
But if someone stands on the brakes and doesn't have anti-skid, flat
spots really screw the balance...and roundness of the tire. =:0


While I was adjusting the balance I noticed the rusted-out shock
mount. I replaced the spring hanger and probably made the truck much
less sensitive to imbalance.

Yeah, most likely.

--
With every experience, you alone are painting your
own canvas, thought by thought, choice by choice.
-- Oprah Winfrey

On Sun, 06 May 2012 11:57:40 -0400, Usual suspect
wrote:

On Sun, 6 May 2012 04:56:25 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

. You can
actually order tires online but not sure if it is a huge cost savings
compared to wal mart or not.

I will not buy a new tire sight unseen from anybody. Some years ago I
was part of an electrical crew that wired a new tire dealership. It
took a couple of truck loads of new tires to fill his racks. The
tires were unloaded and put in the racks by a temporarily hired crew
of laborers. He found out later that the distributor had sent him all
of his inventory of returned new tires. They looked new but were
almost impossible to balance. The correct way to receive a shipment
tires is to examine every one for take off marks and refuse delivery.

Methinks this guy was pushing a Little Too Hard for a really deep
discount on that big order, and the warehouse decided to teach him a
lesson. Big question being was this the only warehouse in the region?
If they literally were the only game in town you have to do it their
way, or don't deal with them at all...

That trick would NOT work here in Los Angeles, there are several big
tire warehouses in the region competing with each other for price and
delivery, and if one won't deal with you the others certainly will.

And it also proves that you really need to get a decent dynamic
balancer, because you might be able to get the bubble balanced on a
static balancer but a dynamic balance issue (one side heavier) like
all those Return To Vendor tires had would drive you nuts.

Even an old Dynamic balance machine like a buddy has with the
markings almost totally worn off the faceplate would be plenty. When
it tells you to put 10 ounces on the outside and another 10 ounces
180-degrees off on the inside edge, there's a problem with the tire...

But if all you are mounting the tires on is plain steel car and truck
rims, you really don't need the fancy and expensive"Touchless" tire
changers - an old Coats 20-20 would be fine.

-- Bruce --

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 May 2012 12:32:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

While I have no independent proof, I think my pinpoint balancer that
supports the wheel barely above its three-dimensional center of
gravity detects dynamic unbalance when the wheel is rotated. IIRC it
wobbled when spun by hand, after arranging the weights for static
balance.

Can't

The tire should wobble when it rotates if the heavy spots are high on
one side and low on the other, and the tire is supported at and
rotates around its center of gravity.

The fixture I built wears too quickly for much experimentation.

Can anyone comment on the ~$40 Harbor Freight tire mounter/dismounter?

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 May 2012 12:32:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

While I have no independent proof, I think my pinpoint balancer that
supports the wheel barely above its three-dimensional center of
gravity detects dynamic unbalance when the wheel is rotated. IIRC it
wobbled when spun by hand, after arranging the weights for static
balance.

Can't

The tire should wobble when it rotates if the heavy spots are high on
one side and low on the other, and the tire is supported at and
rotates around its center of gravity.

The fixture I built wears too quickly for much experimentation.

Can anyone comment on the ~$40 Harbor Freight tire mounter/dismounter?

jsw

Bolt it down *very* well . Use plenty of lube when mounting/dismounting .
Buy (or make) a better bar - Mojo is one that comes to mind . I use mine
mostly for motorcycle tires , but have also used it for truck tires and
while it works , the bar that comes with it is less than perfect . The bead
breaker works *very* well .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On May 7, 5:44*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 6 May 2012 12:32:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

While I have no independent proof, I think my pinpoint balancer that
supports the wheel barely above its three-dimensional center of
gravity detects dynamic unbalance when the wheel is rotated. IIRC it
wobbled when spun by hand, after arranging the weights for static
balance.

Can't

The tire should wobble when it rotates if the heavy spots are high on
one side and low on the other, and the tire is supported at and
rotates around its center of gravity.

The fixture I built wears too quickly for much experimentation.

Can anyone comment on the ~$40 Harbor Freight tire mounter/dismounter?

jsw

If you're talking about the bead breaker, that works OK for normal
stuff. I've used it on the van tires to put factory rims on three of
the 4 spots, no two rims were identical. Tires were like new,
though. Hauled the works over to the local tire shop to have
balancing done. I put longer stems on the rims at the same time.
For some reason, ALL the tire places put short stems on, I either have
to put extensions on or remove the hubcap to check tire pressures.
It's also come in handy for small trailer tires and such. $40 seems a
little high, I was thinking it was more like $20 when I got it last
year.

I couldn't get the tire soap/rubber lube, so I used water-based
silicone spray. Worked well enough and changed a nasty job into one
that was merely unpleasant. I don't plan on doing tire changing as an
alternate career, though. The HF tire irons worked fine, once I got
the hang of it. Wouldn't want to use them on alloy rims, though.
If you need a workout, that'll do it.

Stan