Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Removing broken hitch ball?

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Erik wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the
local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a
big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally)
ever seen.

Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they
cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls.


Our posts passed in the night!

The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel
and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of
even lower quality than the old one was.

Now I am in 'ponder' mode.



put a dollup of anti-sieze on the threads


Sounds like I should 'plate up' the stud by a few thousandths first.
I really don't see this thing handling anywhere near the 160 ft. lb.
torque spec as is.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

--Winston

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Default Removing broken hitch ball?

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 19:17:27 -0800, Winston
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Erik wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the
local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a
big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally)
ever seen.

Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they
cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls.

Our posts passed in the night!

The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel
and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of
even lower quality than the old one was.

Now I am in 'ponder' mode.



put a dollup of anti-sieze on the threads


Sounds like I should 'plate up' the stud by a few thousandths first.
I really don't see this thing handling anywhere near the 160 ft. lb.
torque spec as is.


OMG, you're -not- going to use the replacement, which is also out of
tolerance, are you?

I think I usually try to get half a turn after compression of the lock
washer, if memory serves. (snug + oomph) And check it every time
before each of the first few trips.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
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"Snag" wrote in message
...
Winston wrote:
Bought a brand-new hitch ball to replace the dented
and cruddy old junky looking thing.

Whilst tightening it with medium force (using a short
1/2" ratchet without a cheater) I managed to strip
the nut threads (I think). The thing is now stuck in
the bumper and the nut just rotates backwards without
unthreading if I attempt to back it off.

Right now, I'm thinking that I will carve a slot
up the male thread and cleave the nut in two using
an angle grinder and cutting disk.

Better idears, please.

--Winston



Portaband . Split the stud and nut all the way .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !


Cutting torch. Start at the bottom, and aim just enough to hit the threads
and cut off about 1/6 of the nut, where the flame barely touches the stud.
Removed many an inner bearing like that without harming the spindle.

Or your cutting idea could work, too. I have a Makita die grinder with a
small thin wheel that would cut a nice groove big enough to get a chisel
into.

Many ways to do it.

And next time .................

Steve


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I dunno where your parts originated, but over the years, I've found a lot of
mating threaded parts from China or India to be completely unsatisfactory.

You were probably fortunate that you had the threads let go at low torque,
as I suspect that failure was a predetermined fate. Roadway use of trailers
can produce some harsh shock loads, so it's better to have the parts fail
before use IMO.

It seems retailers will stock anything that has a decent profit margin, now
a'days.

When I examine new parts, I find threads which exhibit so much free movement
that the parts aren't suitable for any purpose I can think of.

When machine parts have oversize female threads, I'll see if I can retap to
a slightly larger fastener, even if the fastener may need to jump from
metric to inch or verse visa.
Loctite and other "fixes" are often a poor choice where there isn't enough
engagement of the threads.

I don't know what the popular overseas methods are for making threads in
holes, but I do know that taps don't grow as they wear.

Poor axial alignment is another issue that puzzles me. I could only tap a
hole that far off if I was attempting to run a tap by hand, behind my back.
Since these overseas manufacturers don't reject parts due to poor quality,
it's up to the end user to make the right decision wrt proper/safe use of
those parts.

--
WB
..........


"Winston" wrote in message
...

I looked it over and decided that I could slice through
the middle of the nut flats with some Dremel discs.
(It took 5 discs, one shattered).

After slicing through two opposing flats and attacking the
gaps with a chisel, I managed to split the nut into two
semicircles and free the hitch ball without damaging the
bumper.

The autopsy shows the nut thread and the stud thread
look surprisingly intact. The plating on the stud
is down into the copper for the length of the nut
on both walls of the thread and the crown of the thread
is much shinier and flattened in relation to the crown
of the non-stressed part of the stud.

The minor diameter of the nut is flattened for about
100 degrees and much sharper for ~260 degrees

This is supposed to be a 3/4-16 thread.

So the major thread of the stud should be no less
than 0.75" dia. It measures 0.744". The nut is no
longer with us as such but it appears that the minor
diameter of the nut widened and began slipping over
successive crowns of the major diameter of the stud.

I measured the thread on the replacement ball and
found the major diameter of the stud to be 0.743"
instead of 0.75". The minor diameter of the nut
should measure no more than 0.6823". The new nut
measures 0.689" I.D.! So our fasteners appear to
be sloppy to the tune of about 0.007" per side!

The tightening specification is 160 ft. lbs.
I don't know how much force I was applying to the nut
but I would be very much surprised to learn it was
much over ~40 ft. lbs when the fasteners failed,
given the short lever arm of the ratchet and the
remaining muscle tone of a weak old man.

Given that the thread on the replacement ball appears
to be even sloppier than the thread of the ball from
O'Reilly Auto, I will assume that it will fail at
somewhat lower torque than did the O'Reilly part.

I conclude that Ed is right.

These parts are junk.

Thanks for your patience and advice.



--Winston







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On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:30:58 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:43:39 -0500, jeff_wisnia
wrote:


(...)

Just a thought....If there's enough room there and you could borrow a
large enough nut splitter the job would almost do itself:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ct_34573_34573

I've had a couple of sizes of nut splitters in my "hell box" for 30+
years and every so often one comes in handy.


I agree that would have come in handy. It would had to have been
a very large tool for a 3/4" dia. thread, as Ed says.

Yeah, I use one, too. It was a regular maintenance tool on my '78 Ford
Fiesta, which had special anti-nut-loosening features that involved
rusting the nuts in place if you looked at them cross-eyed. It was
like ultraviolet-cure adhesive, but you could do it with your naked
eyes; faster if you have X-ray vision.

Anyway, I had to sharpen mine from time to time (even to finishing
with a hard Arkansas stone) because I used it to crack some pretty
hard nuts with it. In Winnie's case, I wondered about finding one
large enough and also about how hard that nut may be.

It sounds like it's junk, so maybe a nut splitter is the trick.


I looked it over and decided that I could slice through
the middle of the nut flats with some Dremel discs.
(It took 5 discs, one shattered).

After slicing through two opposing flats and attacking the
gaps with a chisel, I managed to split the nut into two
semicircles and free the hitch ball without damaging the
bumper.

The autopsy shows the nut thread and the stud thread
look surprisingly intact. The plating on the stud
is down into the copper for the length of the nut
on both walls of the thread and the crown of the thread
is much shinier and flattened in relation to the crown
of the non-stressed part of the stud.

The minor diameter of the nut is flattened for about
100 degrees and much sharper for ~260 degrees

This is supposed to be a 3/4-16 thread.

So the major thread of the stud should be no less
than 0.75" dia. It measures 0.744". The nut is no
longer with us as such but it appears that the minor
diameter of the nut widened and began slipping over
successive crowns of the major diameter of the stud.

I measured the thread on the replacement ball and
found the major diameter of the stud to be 0.743"
instead of 0.75". The minor diameter of the nut
should measure no more than 0.6823". The new nut
measures 0.689" I.D.! So our fasteners appear to
be sloppy to the tune of about 0.007" per side!

The tightening specification is 160 ft. lbs.
I don't know how much force I was applying to the nut
but I would be very much surprised to learn it was
much over ~40 ft. lbs when the fasteners failed,
given the short lever arm of the ratchet and the
remaining muscle tone of a weak old man.

Given that the thread on the replacement ball appears
to be even sloppier than the thread of the ball from
O'Reilly Auto, I will assume that it will fail at
somewhat lower torque than did the O'Reilly part.

I conclude that Ed is right.

These parts are junk.

Thanks for your patience and advice.



--Winston



Made in China crap, packaged inMexican Free Trade Zone and labelled as
made in USA???





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Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

OMG, you're -not- going to use the replacement, which is also out of
tolerance, are you?


Oh no. Fool me once, shame on you....

I think I usually try to get half a turn after compression of the lock
washer, if memory serves. (snug + oomph) And check it every time
before each of the first few trips.


Nah. These measurements are giving me the whim-whams.

I think I will set this aside and focus on other things.

--Winston

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Wild_Bill wrote:
I dunno where your parts originated, but over the years, I've found a lot of mating threaded parts from China or India
to be completely unsatisfactory.


It is scary to contemplate other safety-critical fasteners that are
also 'accidents waiting to happen'.

Poor axial alignment is another issue that puzzles me. I could only tap a hole that far off if I was attempting to run a
tap by hand, behind my back.


Heh! Yup.

Since these overseas manufacturers don't reject parts due to poor quality, it's up to the end user to make the right
decision wrt proper/safe use of those parts.


That's what I found.

--Winston

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On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:40:16 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Erik wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the
local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a
big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally)
ever seen.

Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they
cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls.


Our posts passed in the night!

The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel
and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of
even lower quality than the old one was.

Now I am in 'ponder' mode.

--Winston


What brand was the ball..and where did you get it?

Ive had good luck with the brand Walmart carries..as well as Harbor
Freight. And I use a trailer a LOT.

Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it? VBG

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
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On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 23:56:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:40:16 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Erik wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the
local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a
big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally)
ever seen.

Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they
cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls.


Our posts passed in the night!

The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel
and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of
even lower quality than the old one was.

Now I am in 'ponder' mode.

--Winston


What brand was the ball..and where did you get it?

Ive had good luck with the brand Walmart carries..as well as Harbor
Freight. And I use a trailer a LOT.

Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it? VBG


I get something halfway decent - PepBoys, NAPA, WalMart and others
carry Reese, but as long as the markings list a maker to blame (it
says more than just "China") and they'll stand behind the FMVSS
markings it doesn't really matter.

I never worry about torque on my balls - it's clamped in place,
there aren't any spinning forces applied that would try to unscrew the
ball. Besides, you're supposed to grease your balls well to keep that
from happening.

With a proper big box-end wrench you get it "tight", then double-nut
it till the nut is longer than the stud. Add some flat-washers if the
ball stud still sticks out.

Then when you scrape in driveways, it's the second nut that takes all
the abuse. And an amazing thing happens, when you want to take it
apart it comes apart! The ends of the threads aren't destroyed.

Be sure to replace the second nut every so often when the end of the
stud gets close. OSH sells 3/4" and 1" Grade 8 Nuts in small
quantities.

-- Bruce --


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On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:58:09 -0800, Winston
wrote:

wrote:

Made in China crap, packaged inMexican Free Trade Zone and labelled as
made in USA???


If you squint and hold your tongue properly, you can
just make out "Made in China" on the label.

Oh Well!

--Winston


Try some good Grade 8 nuts (plural) and see if the sloppiness
disappears.

The balls they make in their factory, but they probably buy the nuts
and washers from a third party - and the supply chains in the Far East
can be really treacherous.

"Oh, Yes! They meet the tolerances you need!" (Quick, forge the QA
paperwork before you ship them!)

-- Bruce --
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Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 23:56:10 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:40:16 -0800,
wrote:

Erik wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the
local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a
big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally)
ever seen.

Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they
cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls.

Our posts passed in the night!

The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel
and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of
even lower quality than the old one was.

Now I am in 'ponder' mode.

--Winston


What brand was the ball..and where did you get it?


The first replacement was from O'Reilly Auto.
It is marked 'CTP 2 TO1L' it failed miserably.
'CTP' is associated with Reese but I did not
see this part on their website. It has a very
characteristic hexagonal mounting flange, not
the more traditional 'circular with two flats'
style.

The second is HF Haul-Master 31220. It also
has a loose - fitting nut and I'm gun-shy about
installing it at the 160 ft. lb spec.
Your hint about OSH means I might be able to
install this with a tighter fitting nut.

Thanks for that tip!

Ive had good luck with the brand Walmart carries..as well as Harbor
Freight. And I use a trailer a LOT.

Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it?VBG


That, I have not seen.

(...)

Be sure to replace the second nut every so often when the end of the
stud gets close. OSH sells 3/4" and 1" Grade 8 Nuts in small
quantities.


Ah-HAH! I am off to OSH to see if I can salvage the Brand New
ball I bought a couple days ago. (It's never been installed.
The nut shipped with it is Loosey Goosey and I have no confidence
in it.)

Thanks again for the info and tips, Bruce.

--Winston
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I dunno what protections are in place for businesses that sell large volumes
of sub-standard inferior products, but it seems as though there are some
sort of legal exceptions, because many investigators are trained and
experienced in finding the faults which result in large lawsuit pay-outs.

It seems to me that if sellers were held responsible for injuries and
damages from inferior products, they would've all been sued out of existence
by now.

I wouldn't be surprised if investigative researchers are constantly
searching for and archiving comments such as ones related to quality issues
related to equipment failures.

The typical packaging disclaimer that goes something like.. "product
manufacturer's responsibility is limited to only providing a replacement of
the product" shouldn't be enough to isolate them from knowingly distributing
crap products.

There are two types of equipment which I always inspect closely.. hardware
which could result in injury and electrical products.
On metalworking machines and most power equipment/tools, any fasteners which
fail could potentially result in painful and/or blood-letting situations.

I always inspect electrical devices, and especially those in which the final
assembly is dependent upon hand soldering of line-powered connections, I've
repeatedly found flakey sub-standard workmanship.

In the race to the bottom of acceptable quality standards, soldering a 15A
line connection consisting of a tinned stranded wire, quickly soldered to a
circuit board pad or metal contact is a fairly common practice in China
sourced products.

I've seen these types of connections separate just from moving the wire,
numerous times in lighting equipment and power tool products.

--
WB
..........


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
I dunno where your parts originated, but over the years, I've found a lot
of mating threaded parts from China or India
to be completely unsatisfactory.


It is scary to contemplate other safety-critical fasteners that are
also 'accidents waiting to happen'.

Poor axial alignment is another issue that puzzles me. I could only tap a
hole that far off if I was attempting to run a
tap by hand, behind my back.


Heh! Yup.

Since these overseas manufacturers don't reject parts due to poor
quality, it's up to the end user to make the right
decision wrt proper/safe use of those parts.


That's what I found.

--Winston


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Wild_Bill wrote:
I dunno what protections are in place for businesses that sell large volumes of sub-standard inferior products, but it
seems as though there are some sort of legal exceptions, because many investigators are trained and experienced in
finding the faults which result in large lawsuit pay-outs.


I suspect that the cost of out-of-court solutions is far lower
than the cost of quality assurance, in the very unlikely event
that an extremely wealthy lawyer is injured by a product.

Injuries suffered by the riff-raff are probably ignored with impunity.

It seems to me that if sellers were held responsible for injuries and damages from inferior products, they would've all
been sued out of existence by now.


Multimillionaire lawyers seldom are in contact with the sort of tools
that are likely to injure them because of a design or manufacturing flaw.

I wouldn't be surprised if investigative researchers are constantly searching for and archiving comments such as ones
related to quality issues related to equipment failures.

The typical packaging disclaimer that goes something like.. "product manufacturer's responsibility is limited to only
providing a replacement of the product" shouldn't be enough to isolate them from knowingly distributing crap products.


The words "shouldn't" and "cannot" are worlds apart when used in this sentence.

There are two types of equipment which I always inspect closely.. hardware which could result in injury and electrical
products.
On metalworking machines and most power equipment/tools, any fasteners which fail could potentially result in painful
and/or blood-letting situations.

I always inspect electrical devices, and especially those in which the final assembly is dependent upon hand soldering
of line-powered connections, I've repeatedly found flakey sub-standard workmanship.

In the race to the bottom of acceptable quality standards, soldering a 15A line connection consisting of a tinned
stranded wire, quickly soldered to a circuit board pad or metal contact is a fairly common practice in China sourced
products.

I've seen these types of connections separate just from moving the wire, numerous times in lighting equipment and power
tool products.


"Stab" wire connections are troublesome as well. I've seen many failures.


--Winston-- Riff-raff


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So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off
wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Winston" wrote in message
...

I looked it over and decided that I could slice through
the middle of the nut flats with some Dremel discs.
(It took 5 discs, one shattered).

After slicing through two opposing flats and attacking the
gaps with a chisel, I managed to split the nut into two
semicircles and free the hitch ball without damaging the
bumper.

The autopsy shows the nut thread and the stud thread
look surprisingly intact. The plating on the stud
is down into the copper for the length of the nut
on both walls of the thread and the crown of the thread
is much shinier and flattened in relation to the crown
of the non-stressed part of the stud.

The minor diameter of the nut is flattened for about
100 degrees and much sharper for ~260 degrees

This is supposed to be a 3/4-16 thread.

So the major thread of the stud should be no less
than 0.75" dia. It measures 0.744". The nut is no
longer with us as such but it appears that the minor
diameter of the nut widened and began slipping over
successive crowns of the major diameter of the stud.

I measured the thread on the replacement ball and
found the major diameter of the stud to be 0.743"
instead of 0.75". The minor diameter of the nut
should measure no more than 0.6823". The new nut
measures 0.689" I.D.! So our fasteners appear to
be sloppy to the tune of about 0.007" per side!

The tightening specification is 160 ft. lbs.
I don't know how much force I was applying to the nut
but I would be very much surprised to learn it was
much over ~40 ft. lbs when the fasteners failed,
given the short lever arm of the ratchet and the
remaining muscle tone of a weak old man.

Given that the thread on the replacement ball appears
to be even sloppier than the thread of the ball from
O'Reilly Auto, I will assume that it will fail at
somewhat lower torque than did the O'Reilly part.

I conclude that Ed is right.

These parts are junk.

Thanks for your patience and advice.



--Winston







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That's ballsy, all right!

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

Made in China crap, packaged in Mexican Free Trade Zone and labelled as
made in USA???


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Generous dose of red threadlocker?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Winston" wrote in message
...

Sounds like I should 'plate up' the stud by a few thousandths first.
I really don't see this thing handling anywhere near the 160 ft. lb.
torque spec as is.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

--Winston



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On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:04:26 -0800, Winston
wrote:


Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it?VBG


That, I have not seen.


Now called Class 3 or Class 4 (light)

Mine was rated at 8,000 lb gross and 1000 tongue...chuckle.. a bit more
husky than the truck is capable of pulling. But I dont have to worry
about it failing.

Caught one for $65 on a close out. Works really good!

Took me a couple hours to adapt and mount it to the frame rails
properly.

Love it!!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
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On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off
wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this.


Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that
fit the dremel tools.

The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no
surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels
with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it
together.

The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good.

Good ones:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16

Utter ****:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch


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After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote :
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off
wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this.


Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that
fit the dremel tools.

The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no
surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels
with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it
together.

The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good.

Good ones:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16

Utter ****:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel

They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine
work.


--
John G


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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:27:54 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off
wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this.


Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that

Wheels damnit!!


The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no
surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels
with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it
together.

The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good.

Good ones:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16

Utter ****:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:10:33 +1100, John G
wrote:

After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote :
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off
wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this.


Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that
fit the dremel tools.

The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no
surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels
with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it
together.

The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good.

Good ones:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16

Utter ****:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel

They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine
work.


What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink
wheels?

String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink
wheels?

String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly?
Gunner


I cut 1/4" HSS lathe bits with them, but I can fill my coffee cup to within
1/8" of the rim and walk around without spilling it.

jsw


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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:10:33 +1100, John G
wrote:

After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote :
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found
Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this.

Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles
that fit the dremel tools.

The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have
no surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass
wheels with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that
holds it together.

The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite
good.

Good ones:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16

Utter ****:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel

They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine
work.


What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink
wheels?

String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly?

Gunner


They actually work very well if you keep side loads off them . I also
prefer the reinforced ones for most tasks , but there is a place in my
toolbox for both types .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !




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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog

John G wrote:
After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote :
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like
this.


Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that
fit the dremel tools.

The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no
surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels
with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it
together.

The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good.

Good ones:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16


I like the EZ-Lock kind better. They swap faster and they
are cheaper than the plain-arbor variety:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BDH08

Utter ****:
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel


Nonsense. These cut through the sides of the 3/4-16 nut
quite quickly and easily. They *do* require dexterity
and skill to use properly. (I mentioned that one shattered
before I could do anything with it.)

I found that by storing five wheels mounted on arbors, I
could make a lot of progress quickly. Instead of laboriously
swapping discs during the job, I swapped the arbor/wheel
assembly instead. Very quick and efficient. I use
'less valuable' time for mounting a new set of discs on
arbors.

I could not make much progress with the thick reinforced
wheels in this very demanding application.
The reinforced wheels just bounced on the top of the cut.

'Strange, because I've used the fiberglass wheels in
cutting less-demanding workpieces like lathe bits
and they work just fine doing that.

They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work.


I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels,
I would have been working on that project *much* longer.
OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the
fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs
is obnoxious in a closed room.

--Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed
up the process of mounting cutting discs?
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Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner wrote in message
...

What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink
wheels?

String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly?
Gunner


I cut 1/4" HSS lathe bits with them, but I can fill my coffee cup to within
1/8" of the rim and walk around without spilling it.


Well, *I* can't do that without spilling but I
still find that the 'regular' wheels cut faster
than the reinforced variety in very demanding
applications. It does require steady hands though.

I had a truck bumper to brace against.

Often, one is not available.

--Winston
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Winston on Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:28:46 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner wrote in message
...

What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink
wheels?

String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly?
Gunner


I cut 1/4" HSS lathe bits with them, but I can fill my coffee cup to within
1/8" of the rim and walk around without spilling it.


Well, *I* can't do that without spilling but I
still find that the 'regular' wheels cut faster
than the reinforced variety in very demanding
applications. It does require steady hands though.

I had a truck bumper to brace against.

Often, one is not available.


Sound like you need a Portable Truck Bumper.


I wonder if ACME can supply those?
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.
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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog

pyotr filipivich observed:
on Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:28:46 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


(...)

I had a truck bumper to brace against.

Often, one is not available.


Sound like you need a Portable Truck Bumper.


I wonder if ACME can supply those?



Yes. 4000 of them and the rest of the trucks as well!

http://www.acmetruck.com/about-acme-truck-lines.shtml


--Winston
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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:25:18 -0800, Winston
wrote:

John G wrote:
After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote :

well, someone said the things below:
I could not make much progress with the thick reinforced
wheels in this very demanding application.
The reinforced wheels just bounced on the top of the cut.

'Strange, because I've used the fiberglass wheels in
cutting less-demanding workpieces like lathe bits
and they work just fine doing that.

They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work.


I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels,
I would have been working on that project *much* longer.
OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the
fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs
is obnoxious in a closed room.


What, you have no shop vac or DC to play with?


--Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed
up the process of mounting cutting discs?


Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel?
Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin


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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog


"Winston" wrote in message
...
...
I had a truck bumper to brace against.
Often, one is not available.
--Winston


Where else do you install hitch balls?

jsw


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Default Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:25:18 -0800,
wrote:

John G wrote:


(...)

They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work.


I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels,
I would have been working on that project *much* longer.
OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the
fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs
is obnoxious in a closed room.


What, you have no shop vac or DC to play with?


That'd work. Most the time I don't bother though.

My solar powered vent fan clears the room amazingly
quickly! Luckily I don't have to use a cut off tool
in an enclosed space often.

--Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed
up the process of mounting cutting discs?


Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel?


Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand
to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver.

An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in
alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of
the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us.

Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener.

Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you.


Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00

--Winston
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"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
--Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed
up the process of mounting cutting discs?


Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel?


Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand
to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver.

An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in
alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of
the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us.

Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener.

Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you.


Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00

--Winston


Grab the disk between thumb and middle finger, hold screw head in place
lightly with index finger, spin on the arbor with the other hand. Sheesh!

jsw


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Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
...
I had a truck bumper to brace against.
Often, one is not available.
--Winston


Where else do you install hitch balls?

jsw



You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use
a 2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for the lower pivots!
Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for
the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher ground without problems.

--
Steve W.
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Jim Wilkins wrote:

(...)

Grab the disk between thumb and middle finger, hold screw head in place
lightly with index finger, spin on the arbor with the other hand. Sheesh!


That'd work if the hole in the middle of the disc were
a tiny bit larger than the OD of the screw. I could
just drop the threads of the fastener into the disc. Easy!

The discs I purchase have a hole that is somewhat smaller
than the OD of the fastener, so it takes two hands just
to grind the fastener through the mounting hole. It is a
dicey operation because it takes force to drill the fastener
through the mounting hole but too much force and the disc
shatters into two pieces. It'd be cool to have a jig that
holds everything in alignment to make the operation quick
and painless.

--Winston



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Steve W. wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message ...
...
I had a truck bumper to brace against.
Often, one is not available.
--Winston


Where else do you install hitch balls?

jsw


You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use a 2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for
the lower pivots!
Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher
ground without problems.


Plus, they make dandy Christmas tree decorations for
'heavy metal' aficionados.

--Winston
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On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 13:17:53 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Steve W. wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message ...
...
I had a truck bumper to brace against.
Often, one is not available.
--Winston

Where else do you install hitch balls?

jsw


You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use a 2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for
the lower pivots!
Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher
ground without problems.


Plus, they make dandy Christmas tree decorations for
'heavy metal' aficionados.


Dass one helluva sturdy tree, sir!

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
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On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:48:53 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:25:18 -0800,
wrote:

John G wrote:


(...)

They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work.

I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels,
I would have been working on that project *much* longer.
OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the
fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs
is obnoxious in a closed room.


What, you have no shop vac or DC to play with?


That'd work. Most the time I don't bother though.

My solar powered vent fan clears the room amazingly
quickly! Luckily I don't have to use a cut off tool
in an enclosed space often.


OK, cool. (absolutely no pun intended in February)


--Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed
up the process of mounting cutting discs?


Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel?


Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand
to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver.

An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in
alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of
the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us.


Aw, ya semiarticulated wuss. No extra Shiva arms necessary.

You hold the screw and washer with your thumb and forefinger, the
arbor with your little and 4th fingers, and steady the disc with the
middle finger and 4th, leaving the other hand to hold the screwdriver
and screw it! I used to be the GOTO guy at the shop to wedge my whole
arm into the least accessible places to start a left handed screw
upside down while holding the other parts with other fingers, all
sight-unseen.


Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener.

Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you.


Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00


:]

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
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On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:29:11 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
--Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed
up the process of mounting cutting discs?

Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel?


Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand
to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver.

An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in
alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of
the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us.

Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener.

Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you.


Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00

--Winston


Grab the disk between thumb and middle finger, hold screw head in place
lightly with index finger, spin on the arbor with the other hand. Sheesh!


If you're good in 3-D, assemble the screw and washer to the disc and
power up the die grinder slowly. Now move the screw into mesh with the
end of the arbor and HIT IT! It self-tightens.

If you're not good, visually, it will crossthread the arbor and screw
like a bitch on steroids and you'll have to replace both.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
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"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
...
I had a truck bumper to brace against.
Often, one is not available.
--Winston


Where else do you install hitch balls?
jsw


You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use a
2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for the lower pivots!
Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for
the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher ground without problems.
Steve W.


Just teasing. I salvaged the handle from a broken snow shovel and attached a
hitch ball and bicycle training wheel bracket.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...63513288463986

jsw


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