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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball?
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message ... Erik wrote: You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally) ever seen. Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls. Our posts passed in the night! The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of even lower quality than the old one was. Now I am in 'ponder' mode. put a dollup of anti-sieze on the threads Sounds like I should 'plate up' the stud by a few thousandths first. I really don't see this thing handling anywhere near the 160 ft. lb. torque spec as is. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. --Winston |
#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 19:17:27 -0800, Winston
wrote: PrecisionmachinisT wrote: wrote in message ... Erik wrote: You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally) ever seen. Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls. Our posts passed in the night! The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of even lower quality than the old one was. Now I am in 'ponder' mode. put a dollup of anti-sieze on the threads Sounds like I should 'plate up' the stud by a few thousandths first. I really don't see this thing handling anywhere near the 160 ft. lb. torque spec as is. OMG, you're -not- going to use the replacement, which is also out of tolerance, are you? I think I usually try to get half a turn after compression of the lock washer, if memory serves. (snug + oomph) And check it every time before each of the first few trips. -- Energy and persistence alter all things. --Benjamin Franklin |
#43
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Removing broken hitch ball?
"Snag" wrote in message ... Winston wrote: Bought a brand-new hitch ball to replace the dented and cruddy old junky looking thing. Whilst tightening it with medium force (using a short 1/2" ratchet without a cheater) I managed to strip the nut threads (I think). The thing is now stuck in the bumper and the nut just rotates backwards without unthreading if I attempt to back it off. Right now, I'm thinking that I will carve a slot up the male thread and cleave the nut in two using an angle grinder and cutting disk. Better idears, please. --Winston Portaband . Split the stud and nut all the way . -- Snag Learning keeps you young ! Cutting torch. Start at the bottom, and aim just enough to hit the threads and cut off about 1/6 of the nut, where the flame barely touches the stud. Removed many an inner bearing like that without harming the spindle. Or your cutting idea could work, too. I have a Makita die grinder with a small thin wheel that would cut a nice groove big enough to get a chisel into. Many ways to do it. And next time ................. Steve |
#44
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
I dunno where your parts originated, but over the years, I've found a lot of
mating threaded parts from China or India to be completely unsatisfactory. You were probably fortunate that you had the threads let go at low torque, as I suspect that failure was a predetermined fate. Roadway use of trailers can produce some harsh shock loads, so it's better to have the parts fail before use IMO. It seems retailers will stock anything that has a decent profit margin, now a'days. When I examine new parts, I find threads which exhibit so much free movement that the parts aren't suitable for any purpose I can think of. When machine parts have oversize female threads, I'll see if I can retap to a slightly larger fastener, even if the fastener may need to jump from metric to inch or verse visa. Loctite and other "fixes" are often a poor choice where there isn't enough engagement of the threads. I don't know what the popular overseas methods are for making threads in holes, but I do know that taps don't grow as they wear. Poor axial alignment is another issue that puzzles me. I could only tap a hole that far off if I was attempting to run a tap by hand, behind my back. Since these overseas manufacturers don't reject parts due to poor quality, it's up to the end user to make the right decision wrt proper/safe use of those parts. -- WB .......... "Winston" wrote in message ... I looked it over and decided that I could slice through the middle of the nut flats with some Dremel discs. (It took 5 discs, one shattered). After slicing through two opposing flats and attacking the gaps with a chisel, I managed to split the nut into two semicircles and free the hitch ball without damaging the bumper. The autopsy shows the nut thread and the stud thread look surprisingly intact. The plating on the stud is down into the copper for the length of the nut on both walls of the thread and the crown of the thread is much shinier and flattened in relation to the crown of the non-stressed part of the stud. The minor diameter of the nut is flattened for about 100 degrees and much sharper for ~260 degrees This is supposed to be a 3/4-16 thread. So the major thread of the stud should be no less than 0.75" dia. It measures 0.744". The nut is no longer with us as such but it appears that the minor diameter of the nut widened and began slipping over successive crowns of the major diameter of the stud. I measured the thread on the replacement ball and found the major diameter of the stud to be 0.743" instead of 0.75". The minor diameter of the nut should measure no more than 0.6823". The new nut measures 0.689" I.D.! So our fasteners appear to be sloppy to the tune of about 0.007" per side! The tightening specification is 160 ft. lbs. I don't know how much force I was applying to the nut but I would be very much surprised to learn it was much over ~40 ft. lbs when the fasteners failed, given the short lever arm of the ratchet and the remaining muscle tone of a weak old man. Given that the thread on the replacement ball appears to be even sloppier than the thread of the ball from O'Reilly Auto, I will assume that it will fail at somewhat lower torque than did the O'Reilly part. I conclude that Ed is right. These parts are junk. Thanks for your patience and advice. --Winston |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:30:58 -0800, Winston
wrote: Ed Huntress wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:43:39 -0500, jeff_wisnia wrote: (...) Just a thought....If there's enough room there and you could borrow a large enough nut splitter the job would almost do itself: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ct_34573_34573 I've had a couple of sizes of nut splitters in my "hell box" for 30+ years and every so often one comes in handy. I agree that would have come in handy. It would had to have been a very large tool for a 3/4" dia. thread, as Ed says. Yeah, I use one, too. It was a regular maintenance tool on my '78 Ford Fiesta, which had special anti-nut-loosening features that involved rusting the nuts in place if you looked at them cross-eyed. It was like ultraviolet-cure adhesive, but you could do it with your naked eyes; faster if you have X-ray vision. Anyway, I had to sharpen mine from time to time (even to finishing with a hard Arkansas stone) because I used it to crack some pretty hard nuts with it. In Winnie's case, I wondered about finding one large enough and also about how hard that nut may be. It sounds like it's junk, so maybe a nut splitter is the trick. I looked it over and decided that I could slice through the middle of the nut flats with some Dremel discs. (It took 5 discs, one shattered). After slicing through two opposing flats and attacking the gaps with a chisel, I managed to split the nut into two semicircles and free the hitch ball without damaging the bumper. The autopsy shows the nut thread and the stud thread look surprisingly intact. The plating on the stud is down into the copper for the length of the nut on both walls of the thread and the crown of the thread is much shinier and flattened in relation to the crown of the non-stressed part of the stud. The minor diameter of the nut is flattened for about 100 degrees and much sharper for ~260 degrees This is supposed to be a 3/4-16 thread. So the major thread of the stud should be no less than 0.75" dia. It measures 0.744". The nut is no longer with us as such but it appears that the minor diameter of the nut widened and began slipping over successive crowns of the major diameter of the stud. I measured the thread on the replacement ball and found the major diameter of the stud to be 0.743" instead of 0.75". The minor diameter of the nut should measure no more than 0.6823". The new nut measures 0.689" I.D.! So our fasteners appear to be sloppy to the tune of about 0.007" per side! The tightening specification is 160 ft. lbs. I don't know how much force I was applying to the nut but I would be very much surprised to learn it was much over ~40 ft. lbs when the fasteners failed, given the short lever arm of the ratchet and the remaining muscle tone of a weak old man. Given that the thread on the replacement ball appears to be even sloppier than the thread of the ball from O'Reilly Auto, I will assume that it will fail at somewhat lower torque than did the O'Reilly part. I conclude that Ed is right. These parts are junk. Thanks for your patience and advice. --Winston Made in China crap, packaged inMexican Free Trade Zone and labelled as made in USA??? |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball?
Larry Jaques wrote:
(...) OMG, you're -not- going to use the replacement, which is also out of tolerance, are you? Oh no. Fool me once, shame on you.... I think I usually try to get half a turn after compression of the lock washer, if memory serves. (snug + oomph) And check it every time before each of the first few trips. Nah. These measurements are giving me the whim-whams. I think I will set this aside and focus on other things. --Winston |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Wild_Bill wrote:
I dunno where your parts originated, but over the years, I've found a lot of mating threaded parts from China or India to be completely unsatisfactory. It is scary to contemplate other safety-critical fasteners that are also 'accidents waiting to happen'. Poor axial alignment is another issue that puzzles me. I could only tap a hole that far off if I was attempting to run a tap by hand, behind my back. Heh! Yup. Since these overseas manufacturers don't reject parts due to poor quality, it's up to the end user to make the right decision wrt proper/safe use of those parts. That's what I found. --Winston |
#48
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
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#49
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Removing broken hitch ball?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:40:16 -0800, Winston
wrote: Erik wrote: You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally) ever seen. Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls. Our posts passed in the night! The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of even lower quality than the old one was. Now I am in 'ponder' mode. --Winston What brand was the ball..and where did you get it? Ive had good luck with the brand Walmart carries..as well as Harbor Freight. And I use a trailer a LOT. Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it? VBG Gunner One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch |
#50
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Removing broken hitch ball?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 23:56:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:40:16 -0800, Winston wrote: Erik wrote: You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally) ever seen. Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls. Our posts passed in the night! The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of even lower quality than the old one was. Now I am in 'ponder' mode. --Winston What brand was the ball..and where did you get it? Ive had good luck with the brand Walmart carries..as well as Harbor Freight. And I use a trailer a LOT. Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it? VBG I get something halfway decent - PepBoys, NAPA, WalMart and others carry Reese, but as long as the markings list a maker to blame (it says more than just "China") and they'll stand behind the FMVSS markings it doesn't really matter. I never worry about torque on my balls - it's clamped in place, there aren't any spinning forces applied that would try to unscrew the ball. Besides, you're supposed to grease your balls well to keep that from happening. With a proper big box-end wrench you get it "tight", then double-nut it till the nut is longer than the stud. Add some flat-washers if the ball stud still sticks out. Then when you scrape in driveways, it's the second nut that takes all the abuse. And an amazing thing happens, when you want to take it apart it comes apart! The ends of the threads aren't destroyed. Be sure to replace the second nut every so often when the end of the stud gets close. OSH sells 3/4" and 1" Grade 8 Nuts in small quantities. -- Bruce -- |
#51
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:58:09 -0800, Winston
wrote: wrote: Made in China crap, packaged inMexican Free Trade Zone and labelled as made in USA??? If you squint and hold your tongue properly, you can just make out "Made in China" on the label. Oh Well! --Winston Try some good Grade 8 nuts (plural) and see if the sloppiness disappears. The balls they make in their factory, but they probably buy the nuts and washers from a third party - and the supply chains in the Far East can be really treacherous. "Oh, Yes! They meet the tolerances you need!" (Quick, forge the QA paperwork before you ship them!) -- Bruce -- |
#52
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Removing broken hitch ball?
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 23:56:10 -0800, Gunner wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:40:16 -0800, wrote: Erik wrote: You know, now that I think about it, years ago I remember seeing the local trailer rental place cutting off such a nut... they were using a big 'porta power' like nut splitter... the biggest I've (personally) ever seen. Wonder if it's a common issue for those outfits, and if so, would they cut off yours for a few bucks. Might be worth some calls. Our posts passed in the night! The old hitch ball is off through the use of Dremel and chisel. The new hitch ball appears to be of even lower quality than the old one was. Now I am in 'ponder' mode. --Winston What brand was the ball..and where did you get it? The first replacement was from O'Reilly Auto. It is marked 'CTP 2 TO1L' it failed miserably. 'CTP' is associated with Reese but I did not see this part on their website. It has a very characteristic hexagonal mounting flange, not the more traditional 'circular with two flats' style. The second is HF Haul-Master 31220. It also has a loose - fitting nut and I'm gun-shy about installing it at the 160 ft. lb spec. Your hint about OSH means I might be able to install this with a tighter fitting nut. Thanks for that tip! Ive had good luck with the brand Walmart carries..as well as Harbor Freight. And I use a trailer a LOT. Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it?VBG That, I have not seen. (...) Be sure to replace the second nut every so often when the end of the stud gets close. OSH sells 3/4" and 1" Grade 8 Nuts in small quantities. Ah-HAH! I am off to OSH to see if I can salvage the Brand New ball I bought a couple days ago. (It's never been installed. The nut shipped with it is Loosey Goosey and I have no confidence in it.) Thanks again for the info and tips, Bruce. --Winston |
#53
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:58:09 -0800, wrote: wrote: Made in China crap, packaged inMexican Free Trade Zone and labelled as made in USA??? If you squint and hold your tongue properly, you can just make out "Made in China" on the label. Oh Well! --Winston Try some good Grade 8 nuts (plural) and see if the sloppiness disappears. I shall. Thanks! The balls they make in their factory, but they probably buy the nuts and washers from a third party - and the supply chains in the Far East can be really treacherous. That's for sure. "Oh, Yes! They meet the tolerances you need!" (Quick, forge the QA paperwork before you ship them!) HA! No, wait. That is probably correct. DoH! --Winston |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
I dunno what protections are in place for businesses that sell large volumes
of sub-standard inferior products, but it seems as though there are some sort of legal exceptions, because many investigators are trained and experienced in finding the faults which result in large lawsuit pay-outs. It seems to me that if sellers were held responsible for injuries and damages from inferior products, they would've all been sued out of existence by now. I wouldn't be surprised if investigative researchers are constantly searching for and archiving comments such as ones related to quality issues related to equipment failures. The typical packaging disclaimer that goes something like.. "product manufacturer's responsibility is limited to only providing a replacement of the product" shouldn't be enough to isolate them from knowingly distributing crap products. There are two types of equipment which I always inspect closely.. hardware which could result in injury and electrical products. On metalworking machines and most power equipment/tools, any fasteners which fail could potentially result in painful and/or blood-letting situations. I always inspect electrical devices, and especially those in which the final assembly is dependent upon hand soldering of line-powered connections, I've repeatedly found flakey sub-standard workmanship. In the race to the bottom of acceptable quality standards, soldering a 15A line connection consisting of a tinned stranded wire, quickly soldered to a circuit board pad or metal contact is a fairly common practice in China sourced products. I've seen these types of connections separate just from moving the wire, numerous times in lighting equipment and power tool products. -- WB .......... "Winston" wrote in message ... Wild_Bill wrote: I dunno where your parts originated, but over the years, I've found a lot of mating threaded parts from China or India to be completely unsatisfactory. It is scary to contemplate other safety-critical fasteners that are also 'accidents waiting to happen'. Poor axial alignment is another issue that puzzles me. I could only tap a hole that far off if I was attempting to run a tap by hand, behind my back. Heh! Yup. Since these overseas manufacturers don't reject parts due to poor quality, it's up to the end user to make the right decision wrt proper/safe use of those parts. That's what I found. --Winston |
#55
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Wild_Bill wrote:
I dunno what protections are in place for businesses that sell large volumes of sub-standard inferior products, but it seems as though there are some sort of legal exceptions, because many investigators are trained and experienced in finding the faults which result in large lawsuit pay-outs. I suspect that the cost of out-of-court solutions is far lower than the cost of quality assurance, in the very unlikely event that an extremely wealthy lawyer is injured by a product. Injuries suffered by the riff-raff are probably ignored with impunity. It seems to me that if sellers were held responsible for injuries and damages from inferior products, they would've all been sued out of existence by now. Multimillionaire lawyers seldom are in contact with the sort of tools that are likely to injure them because of a design or manufacturing flaw. I wouldn't be surprised if investigative researchers are constantly searching for and archiving comments such as ones related to quality issues related to equipment failures. The typical packaging disclaimer that goes something like.. "product manufacturer's responsibility is limited to only providing a replacement of the product" shouldn't be enough to isolate them from knowingly distributing crap products. The words "shouldn't" and "cannot" are worlds apart when used in this sentence. There are two types of equipment which I always inspect closely.. hardware which could result in injury and electrical products. On metalworking machines and most power equipment/tools, any fasteners which fail could potentially result in painful and/or blood-letting situations. I always inspect electrical devices, and especially those in which the final assembly is dependent upon hand soldering of line-powered connections, I've repeatedly found flakey sub-standard workmanship. In the race to the bottom of acceptable quality standards, soldering a 15A line connection consisting of a tinned stranded wire, quickly soldered to a circuit board pad or metal contact is a fairly common practice in China sourced products. I've seen these types of connections separate just from moving the wire, numerous times in lighting equipment and power tool products. "Stab" wire connections are troublesome as well. I've seen many failures. --Winston-- Riff-raff |
#56
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off
wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Winston" wrote in message ... I looked it over and decided that I could slice through the middle of the nut flats with some Dremel discs. (It took 5 discs, one shattered). After slicing through two opposing flats and attacking the gaps with a chisel, I managed to split the nut into two semicircles and free the hitch ball without damaging the bumper. The autopsy shows the nut thread and the stud thread look surprisingly intact. The plating on the stud is down into the copper for the length of the nut on both walls of the thread and the crown of the thread is much shinier and flattened in relation to the crown of the non-stressed part of the stud. The minor diameter of the nut is flattened for about 100 degrees and much sharper for ~260 degrees This is supposed to be a 3/4-16 thread. So the major thread of the stud should be no less than 0.75" dia. It measures 0.744". The nut is no longer with us as such but it appears that the minor diameter of the nut widened and began slipping over successive crowns of the major diameter of the stud. I measured the thread on the replacement ball and found the major diameter of the stud to be 0.743" instead of 0.75". The minor diameter of the nut should measure no more than 0.6823". The new nut measures 0.689" I.D.! So our fasteners appear to be sloppy to the tune of about 0.007" per side! The tightening specification is 160 ft. lbs. I don't know how much force I was applying to the nut but I would be very much surprised to learn it was much over ~40 ft. lbs when the fasteners failed, given the short lever arm of the ratchet and the remaining muscle tone of a weak old man. Given that the thread on the replacement ball appears to be even sloppier than the thread of the ball from O'Reilly Auto, I will assume that it will fail at somewhat lower torque than did the O'Reilly part. I conclude that Ed is right. These parts are junk. Thanks for your patience and advice. --Winston |
#57
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
That's ballsy, all right!
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message ... Made in China crap, packaged in Mexican Free Trade Zone and labelled as made in USA??? |
#58
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball?
Generous dose of red threadlocker?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Winston" wrote in message ... Sounds like I should 'plate up' the stud by a few thousandths first. I really don't see this thing handling anywhere near the 160 ft. lb. torque spec as is. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. --Winston |
#59
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Removing broken hitch ball?
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:04:26 -0800, Winston
wrote: Ever see a Ranger with a Class C hitch under it?VBG That, I have not seen. Now called Class 3 or Class 4 (light) Mine was rated at 8,000 lb gross and 1000 tongue...chuckle.. a bit more husky than the truck is capable of pulling. But I dont have to worry about it failing. Caught one for $65 on a close out. Works really good! Took me a couple hours to adapt and mount it to the frame rails properly. Love it!! Gunner One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch |
#60
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this. Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that fit the dremel tools. The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it together. The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good. Good ones: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16 Utter ****: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel Gunner One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch |
#61
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote :
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this. Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that fit the dremel tools. The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it together. The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good. Good ones: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16 Utter ****: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work. -- John G |
#62
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:27:54 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this. Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that Wheels damnit!! The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it together. The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good. Good ones: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16 Utter ****: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel Gunner One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch |
#63
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:10:33 +1100, John G
wrote: After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote : On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this. Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that fit the dremel tools. The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it together. The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good. Good ones: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16 Utter ****: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work. What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink wheels? String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly? Gunner One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch |
#64
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink wheels? String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly? Gunner I cut 1/4" HSS lathe bits with them, but I can fill my coffee cup to within 1/8" of the rim and walk around without spilling it. jsw |
#65
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:10:33 +1100, John G wrote: After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote : On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this. Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that fit the dremel tools. The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it together. The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good. Good ones: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16 Utter ****: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work. What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink wheels? String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly? Gunner They actually work very well if you keep side loads off them . I also prefer the reinforced ones for most tasks , but there is a place in my toolbox for both types . -- Snag Learning keeps you young ! |
#66
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
John G wrote:
After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote : On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 20:01:09 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: So, the cut off wheels did the job? Good to know. I've found Dremel cut off wheels to be handy for many tasks, like this. Just keep in mind there are (2) different kinds of cutoff whiles that fit the dremel tools. The solid dark brown ones that often come with the tools, that have no surface texture..and ones that look like miniturized fiberglass wheels with an "embossed" grid..which is actually fiberglass that holds it together. The first ones..are fragile like glass. The second kind is quite good. Good ones: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BEU16 I like the EZ-Lock kind better. They swap faster and they are cheaper than the plain-arbor variety: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ss-wheel/BDH08 Utter ****: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/...ff-emery-wheel Nonsense. These cut through the sides of the 3/4-16 nut quite quickly and easily. They *do* require dexterity and skill to use properly. (I mentioned that one shattered before I could do anything with it.) I found that by storing five wheels mounted on arbors, I could make a lot of progress quickly. Instead of laboriously swapping discs during the job, I swapped the arbor/wheel assembly instead. Very quick and efficient. I use 'less valuable' time for mounting a new set of discs on arbors. I could not make much progress with the thick reinforced wheels in this very demanding application. The reinforced wheels just bounced on the top of the cut. 'Strange, because I've used the fiberglass wheels in cutting less-demanding workpieces like lathe bits and they work just fine doing that. They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work. I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels, I would have been working on that project *much* longer. OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs is obnoxious in a closed room. --Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed up the process of mounting cutting discs? |
#67
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner wrote in message ... What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink wheels? String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly? Gunner I cut 1/4" HSS lathe bits with them, but I can fill my coffee cup to within 1/8" of the rim and walk around without spilling it. Well, *I* can't do that without spilling but I still find that the 'regular' wheels cut faster than the reinforced variety in very demanding applications. It does require steady hands though. I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. --Winston |
#68
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Winston on Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:28:46 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Jim Wilkins wrote: "Gunner wrote in message ... What is the place for the incredibly fragile and break at a blink wheels? String cutting? As long as you dont put it down roughly? Gunner I cut 1/4" HSS lathe bits with them, but I can fill my coffee cup to within 1/8" of the rim and walk around without spilling it. Well, *I* can't do that without spilling but I still find that the 'regular' wheels cut faster than the reinforced variety in very demanding applications. It does require steady hands though. I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. Sound like you need a Portable Truck Bumper. I wonder if ACME can supply those? -- pyotr Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers does it take to change a lightbulb. |
#69
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
pyotr filipivich observed:
on Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:28:46 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: (...) I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. Sound like you need a Portable Truck Bumper. I wonder if ACME can supply those? Yes. 4000 of them and the rest of the trucks as well! http://www.acmetruck.com/about-acme-truck-lines.shtml --Winston |
#70
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:25:18 -0800, Winston
wrote: John G wrote: After serious thinking Gunner Asch wrote : well, someone said the things below: I could not make much progress with the thick reinforced wheels in this very demanding application. The reinforced wheels just bounced on the top of the cut. 'Strange, because I've used the fiberglass wheels in cutting less-demanding workpieces like lathe bits and they work just fine doing that. They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work. I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels, I would have been working on that project *much* longer. OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs is obnoxious in a closed room. What, you have no shop vac or DC to play with? --Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed up the process of mounting cutting discs? Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel? Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you. -- Energy and persistence alter all things. --Benjamin Franklin |
#71
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
"Winston" wrote in message ... ... I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. --Winston Where else do you install hitch balls? jsw |
#72
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:25:18 -0800, wrote: John G wrote: (...) They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work. I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels, I would have been working on that project *much* longer. OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs is obnoxious in a closed room. What, you have no shop vac or DC to play with? That'd work. Most the time I don't bother though. My solar powered vent fan clears the room amazingly quickly! Luckily I don't have to use a cut off tool in an enclosed space often. --Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed up the process of mounting cutting discs? Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel? Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver. An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us. Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener. Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you. Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00 --Winston |
#73
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
"Winston" wrote in message ... Larry Jaques wrote: ... --Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed up the process of mounting cutting discs? Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel? Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver. An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us. Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener. Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you. Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00 --Winston Grab the disk between thumb and middle finger, hold screw head in place lightly with index finger, spin on the arbor with the other hand. Sheesh! jsw |
#74
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message ... ... I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. --Winston Where else do you install hitch balls? jsw You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use a 2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for the lower pivots! Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher ground without problems. -- Steve W. |
#75
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Jim Wilkins wrote:
(...) Grab the disk between thumb and middle finger, hold screw head in place lightly with index finger, spin on the arbor with the other hand. Sheesh! That'd work if the hole in the middle of the disc were a tiny bit larger than the OD of the screw. I could just drop the threads of the fastener into the disc. Easy! The discs I purchase have a hole that is somewhat smaller than the OD of the fastener, so it takes two hands just to grind the fastener through the mounting hole. It is a dicey operation because it takes force to drill the fastener through the mounting hole but too much force and the disc shatters into two pieces. It'd be cool to have a jig that holds everything in alignment to make the operation quick and painless. --Winston |
#76
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
Steve W. wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote: "Winston" wrote in message ... ... I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. --Winston Where else do you install hitch balls? jsw You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use a 2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for the lower pivots! Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher ground without problems. Plus, they make dandy Christmas tree decorations for 'heavy metal' aficionados. --Winston |
#77
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 13:17:53 -0800, Winston
wrote: Steve W. wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote: "Winston" wrote in message ... ... I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. --Winston Where else do you install hitch balls? jsw You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use a 2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for the lower pivots! Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher ground without problems. Plus, they make dandy Christmas tree decorations for 'heavy metal' aficionados. Dass one helluva sturdy tree, sir! -- Energy and persistence alter all things. --Benjamin Franklin |
#78
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:48:53 -0800, Winston
wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:25:18 -0800, wrote: John G wrote: (...) They both have their place and it depends on your skill at doing fine work. I concur! If I had nothing but the reinforced wheels, I would have been working on that project *much* longer. OTOH I was thankful to be working outside because the fog of abrasive released by the standard cut-off discs is obnoxious in a closed room. What, you have no shop vac or DC to play with? That'd work. Most the time I don't bother though. My solar powered vent fan clears the room amazingly quickly! Luckily I don't have to use a cut off tool in an enclosed space often. OK, cool. (absolutely no pun intended in February) --Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed up the process of mounting cutting discs? Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel? Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver. An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us. Aw, ya semiarticulated wuss. No extra Shiva arms necessary. You hold the screw and washer with your thumb and forefinger, the arbor with your little and 4th fingers, and steady the disc with the middle finger and 4th, leaving the other hand to hold the screwdriver and screw it! I used to be the GOTO guy at the shop to wedge my whole arm into the least accessible places to start a left handed screw upside down while holding the other parts with other fingers, all sight-unseen. Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener. Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you. Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00 :] -- Energy and persistence alter all things. --Benjamin Franklin |
#79
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:29:11 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Winston" wrote in message ... Larry Jaques wrote: ... --Winston-- 'Somebody make an alignment jig to speed up the process of mounting cutting discs? Do you mean to mount discs to arbors or arbors to the Dremel? Discs to arbors. Ya need a hand to hold the arbor, a hand to hold the disc, a hand to hold the screw and driver. An elastomer-coated gadget to hold the arbor and disc in alignment with a screwdriver constrained to the center of the arbor would be really neat for the non-Shivas among us. Extra points for magnetizing the screwdriver to hold the fastener. Or something else entirely? (Yeah, I'm onto you. Yup. You are Larry, all right. 00 --Winston Grab the disk between thumb and middle finger, hold screw head in place lightly with index finger, spin on the arbor with the other hand. Sheesh! If you're good in 3-D, assemble the screw and washer to the disc and power up the die grinder slowly. Now move the screw into mesh with the end of the arbor and HIT IT! It self-tightens. If you're not good, visually, it will crossthread the arbor and screw like a bitch on steroids and you'll have to replace both. -- Energy and persistence alter all things. --Benjamin Franklin |
#80
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Removing broken hitch ball : Epilog
"Steve W." wrote in message ... Jim Wilkins wrote: "Winston" wrote in message ... ... I had a truck bumper to brace against. Often, one is not available. --Winston Where else do you install hitch balls? jsw You might be surprised. I know of an articulated tractor or two that use a 2" hitch ball and bulldog style coupler for the lower pivots! Also know of at least three boat cranes that are using 2 5/16" balls for the wheel pivots so they can travel rougher ground without problems. Steve W. Just teasing. I salvaged the handle from a broken snow shovel and attached a hitch ball and bicycle training wheel bracket. https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...63513288463986 jsw |
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