We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time bomb
for me. The shut off valves for the water were right over a workbench, and
after using them for the first time in decades, the packing on both the hot
& cold water are leaking. Not so fast that it's easy to spot, but over a
couple of weeks, it was enough. I think they leak a bit every time the
washing machine does the water hammer thing. Ground zero for the drips was
the steel table for a 12" sheet metal shear I'm rebuilding, which I had
spent hours derusting & cleaning up. I had placed it on some paper towels,
which caught the drips, and proceed to wick under the entire bottom of the
table, rusting it thoroughly. I will deal with that later...

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a rubber
ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know oxalic acid is
the classic cure, but I've never used it & was wondering if there is a
pre-mixed version I should look for at the store, or some other flavor of
chemical. I don't need much, but the bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed
off enough as it is without a constant reminder.

Thanks!

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
...
The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a rubber
ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know oxalic acid
is
the classic cure, but I've never used it & was wondering if there is a
pre-mixed version I should look for at the store, or some other flavor of
chemical. I don't need much, but the bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed
off enough as it is without a constant reminder.
Doug White

I put a thick paste of instant coffee on a rusty steel plate to test how
well it works. Army coffee would dissolve the light rust that formed on the
no-longer-galvanized kitchen sink during mealtime.

CLR rust remover has been disappointing for me. Maybe asking it to replace a
pneumatic needle scaler or sandblasting was too much.

jsw

In article ,
Doug White wrote:

We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time bomb
for me. The shut off valves for the water were right over a workbench, and
after using them for the first time in decades, the packing on both the hot
& cold water are leaking. Not so fast that it's easy to spot, but over a
couple of weeks, it was enough. I think they leak a bit every time the
washing machine does the water hammer thing.

It clearly needs a pair of water hammer arrestors, to prevent problems
in the washing machine valves. Make sure to get a large enough unit, in
terms of internal volume. Put the arrestors no more than two or three
feet of pipe away from the washer. Do not subject arrestors to
soldering heat.

For instance
http://www.siouxchief.com/Supply/Arr...s/Water-Hammer
-Arresters2/Hydra-Rester.JS766


Ground zero for the drips was
the steel table for a 12" sheet metal shear I'm rebuilding, which I had
spent hours derusting & cleaning up. I had placed it on some paper towels,
which caught the drips, and proceed to wick under the entire bottom of the
table, rusting it thoroughly. I will deal with that later...

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a rubber
ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know oxalic acid is
the classic cure, but I've never used it & was wondering if there is a
pre-mixed version I should look for at the store, or some other flavor of
chemical. I don't need much, but the bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed
off enough as it is without a constant reminder.

There are pre-mixed version, at some expense. Paint and hardware stores
often carry oxalic acid.

Why is mixing it yourself a problem? You will need the same precautions
while using it.

Joe Gwinn

Mentioned numerous times in the past, diluted phosphoric acid is an
excellent treatment for rust, also oxidation on aluminum, cleaning/etching
stainless and galvanized.

Used for generations in autobody bare metal etching treatment to prepare
metal surfaces for primer, phosphoric acid solutions commonly referred to as
metal prep, twin/triple etch and other terms, will effectively remove oxides
from metals.

Phosphoric is a relatively safe acid (also found in foods) when diluted (not
commonly available at 100%), with normal safety precautions such as
protective eyewear.
The diluted strengths aren't particularly hazardous to hand skin, although a
small cut will sting like it would if exposed to lemon juice.

The basic procedure is to dilute to the recommended strength (varies for
steel, aluminum etc) and to apply to the area for a specified period (of
about 20 minutes), while keeping the surface wet (trigger spray bottle,
paper towels applied to area to maintain moisture level).
For minor stains wetting a steel wool or scuff/scratch pad (scotch brite or
similar) and rubbing after a wetting period will remove staining or light
rust down to clean bare metal.
Etched bare metal items should be quickly rinsed and dried after treatment,
followed by any appropriate surface corrosion treatment desired. An etched
bare surface isn't especially prone to further oxidation, but in humid or
damp locations some surface coating is required (paste waxing, light oil
film, primer/paint etc).

For mild surface rust, I generally use a single-edge razor blade scraper
held at a low angle to separate the fuzzy rust from the surface.
This works well on old items where it's desirable to keep the aged patina on
flat steel/iron surfaces. Application of some oil is useful for wiping away
the removed rust with a rag.

If it's apparent that the razor blade corners are catching on a surface
that's not uniformly flat, using a stone to remove/radius the blade corners
will prevent digging and scratching.

More advanced rusting (scaley pitted) is more quickly removed with an
abrasive, followed by a phosphoric solution treatment followed by wire
brushing while the surface is still wet. Any rust remaining in deep pits
will continue to spread if not completely removed.

The phosphoric etching treatment is often more practical than the
rust-converter type products (also phosphoric acid), which leave a crusty
residue/scab after treatment.

--
WB
..........


"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time bomb
for me. The shut off valves for the water were right over a workbench,
and
after using them for the first time in decades, the packing on both the
hot
& cold water are leaking. Not so fast that it's easy to spot, but over a
couple of weeks, it was enough. I think they leak a bit every time the
washing machine does the water hammer thing. Ground zero for the drips
was
the steel table for a 12" sheet metal shear I'm rebuilding, which I had
spent hours derusting & cleaning up. I had placed it on some paper
towels,
which caught the drips, and proceed to wick under the entire bottom of the
table, rusting it thoroughly. I will deal with that later...

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a rubber
ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know oxalic acid
is
the classic cure, but I've never used it & was wondering if there is a
pre-mixed version I should look for at the store, or some other flavor of
chemical. I don't need much, but the bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed
off enough as it is without a constant reminder.

Thanks!

Doug White

On Dec 29, 8:22*am, Doug White wrote:
We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. *I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time bomb
for me. *The shut off valves for the water were right over a workbench, and
after using them for the first time in decades, the packing on both the hot
& cold water are leaking. *Not so fast that it's easy to spot, but over a
couple of weeks, it was enough. *I think they leak a bit every time the
washing machine does the water hammer thing. *Ground zero for the drips was
the steel table for a 12" sheet metal shear I'm rebuilding, which I had
spent hours derusting & cleaning up. *I had placed it on some paper towels,
which caught the drips, and proceed to wick under the entire bottom of the
table, rusting it thoroughly. *I will deal with that later...

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a rubber
ESD mat. *This now has nice rust stains all over it. *I know oxalic acid is
the *classic cure, but I've never used it & was wondering if there is a
pre-mixed version I should look for at the store, or some other flavor of
chemical. *I don't need much, but the bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed
off enough as it is without a constant reminder.

Thanks!

Doug White

Oxalic acid works, there's some stuff based on EDTA that works. I use
some stuff that comes in a small brown squirt bottle for rust stains
on clothes, that works. That I can get off the shelf at the local
grocery over in the specialty stain removers, usually at the end of
the detergent aisle. If the rubber mat has a cloth cover, that's the
stuff to use. Oxalic acid is also a bleach and may change the
material's color at the treatment area. None of it is instantaneous,
probably takes an hour or so and maybe repeated applications. Don't
lick your fingers afterwards with any of it.

Stan

Joseph Gwinn wrote in
:

In article ,
Doug White wrote:

We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time
bomb for me. The shut off valves for the water were right over a
workbench, and after using them for the first time in decades, the
packing on both the hot & cold water are leaking. Not so fast that
it's easy to spot, but over a couple of weeks, it was enough. I
think they leak a bit every time the washing machine does the water
hammer thing.

It clearly needs a pair of water hammer arrestors, to prevent problems
in the washing machine valves. Make sure to get a large enough unit,
in terms of internal volume. Put the arrestors no more than two or
three feet of pipe away from the washer. Do not subject arrestors to
soldering heat.

For instance
http://www.siouxchief.com/Supply/Arr...ers/Water-Hamm
er -Arresters2/Hydra-Rester.JS766

I have arrestors, but they are the "Mini-Restor" compact units, and the
O-rings have begun sticking. I need to either replace them or take them
off & un-stick them. I was a beta-tester for Sioux Chief for several
generations of these things when they first came out. My old house had
low water pressure, and they would start sticking very quickly. Still
plenty of water flow to make a good Bang! when the washer valves kicked
off, but not enough to kick the O-rings loose. Sioux Chief must have
sent my 6 or 8 different revisons over the course of several years.

The ones you linked to are the larger "Industrial" version. One issue is
that the spec on these things is to keep ther pressure spike below 150
PSI. That can still make quite a bang, and vibrate/damage stuff. They
claim they are "permanent", and can be installed in walls with no access,
but I have years of experinece that says otherwise. I suppose they may
have improved them further, so maybe I'll buy some new ones.

Ground zero for the drips was
the steel table for a 12" sheet metal shear I'm rebuilding, which I
had spent hours derusting & cleaning up. I had placed it on some
paper towels, which caught the drips, and proceed to wick under the
entire bottom of the table, rusting it thoroughly. I will deal with
that later...

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a
rubber ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know
oxalic acid is the classic cure, but I've never used it & was
wondering if there is a pre-mixed version I should look for at the
store, or some other flavor of chemical. I don't need much, but the
bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed off enough as it is without a
constant reminder.

There are pre-mixed version, at some expense. Paint and hardware
stores often carry oxalic acid.

Why is mixing it yourself a problem? You will need the same
precautions while using it.

I just figured a small bottle of remover would be plenty. No point in
filling the house up with more large quantities of toxic/corrosive stuff.

Doug White

In article ,
Doug White wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote in
:

In article ,
Doug White wrote:

We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time
bomb for me. The shut off valves for the water were right over a
workbench, and after using them for the first time in decades, the
packing on both the hot & cold water are leaking. Not so fast that
it's easy to spot, but over a couple of weeks, it was enough. I
think they leak a bit every time the washing machine does the water
hammer thing.

It clearly needs a pair of water hammer arrestors, to prevent problems
in the washing machine valves. Make sure to get a large enough unit,
in terms of internal volume. Put the arrestors no more than two or
three feet of pipe away from the washer. Do not subject arrestors to
soldering heat.

For instance
http://www.siouxchief.com/Supply/Arr...ers/Water-Hamm
er -Arresters2/Hydra-Rester.JS766

I have arrestors, but they are the "Mini-Restor" compact units, and the
O-rings have begun sticking. I need to either replace them or take them
off & un-stick them. I was a beta-tester for Sioux Chief for several
generations of these things when they first came out. My old house had
low water pressure, and they would start sticking very quickly. Still
plenty of water flow to make a good Bang! when the washer valves kicked
off, but not enough to kick the O-rings loose. Sioux Chief must have
sent my 6 or 8 different revisons over the course of several years.

The ones you linked to are the larger "Industrial" version. One issue is
that the spec on these things is to keep ther pressure spike below 150
PSI. That can still make quite a bang, and vibrate/damage stuff. They
claim they are "permanent", and can be installed in walls with no access,
but I have years of experience that says otherwise. I suppose they may
have improved them further, so maybe I'll buy some new ones.

I bet the bangs well exceed 150 psi.

From the reviews, they seem to have solved the problem, although a few
people said the unit never worked. My suspicion is that they soldered
the Tee in with the arrestor in place, and cooked it.

If you like, you can make one's own arrestor from some pipe, a cap, a
reducer, and a Tee. This will not have a problem with too-low pressure
to keep the piston unit moving, but you will need to drain it every so
often to reestablish the air bubble. Or, provide a way to introduce
compressed air to replenish the bubble. But one can install a dead-end
pipe in an area where access is difficult.



Ground zero for the drips was
the steel table for a 12" sheet metal shear I'm rebuilding, which I
had spent hours derusting & cleaning up. I had placed it on some
paper towels, which caught the drips, and proceed to wick under the
entire bottom of the table, rusting it thoroughly. I will deal with
that later...

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a
rubber ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know
oxalic acid is the classic cure, but I've never used it & was
wondering if there is a pre-mixed version I should look for at the
store, or some other flavor of chemical. I don't need much, but the
bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed off enough as it is without a
constant reminder.

There are pre-mixed version, at some expense. Paint and hardware
stores often carry oxalic acid.

Why is mixing it yourself a problem? You will need the same
precautions while using it.

I just figured a small bottle of remover would be plenty. No point in
filling the house up with more large quantities of toxic/corrosive stuff.

Well, the local hardware store sells small bottles for small dollars.

Joe Gwinn

On 12/29/2011 17:22, Doug White wrote:
We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time bomb
for me. The shut off valves for the water were right over a workbench, and
after using them for the first time in decades, the packing on both the hot
& cold water are leaking. Not so fast that it's easy to spot, but over a
couple of weeks, it was enough. I think they leak a bit every time the
washing machine does the water hammer thing. Ground zero for the drips was
the steel table for a 12" sheet metal shear I'm rebuilding, which I had
spent hours derusting& cleaning up. I had placed it on some paper towels,
which caught the drips, and proceed to wick under the entire bottom of the
table, rusting it thoroughly. I will deal with that later...

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a rubber
ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know oxalic acid is
the classic cure, but I've never used it& was wondering if there is a
pre-mixed version I should look for at the store, or some other flavor of
chemical. I don't need much, but the bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed
off enough as it is without a constant reminder.

Citric acid is nice.. For small needs, the stuff meant
for cleaning coffee maker is 100% citric acid..

I just cleaned a REALLY rusty wire-EDM stainless steel
water storage tank and associated parts with citric
acid.. Works really well. Just leave the citric acid
solution for a day and the rust is gone..

The nice that is that citric acid is really safe,
you can drink it mixed to water as lemon juice..
It is used in many foods.. Afterwards, there is no
chemical waste that is difficult to get rid of..

Kristian Ukkonen.

Kristian Ukkonen wrote in
:

On 12/29/2011 17:22, Doug White wrote:
snip
The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a
rubber ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know
oxalic acid is the classic cure, but I've never used it& was
wondering if there is a pre-mixed version I should look for at the
store, or some other flavor of chemical. I don't need much, but the
bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed off enough as it is without a
constant reminder.

Citric acid is nice.. For small needs, the stuff meant
for cleaning coffee maker is 100% citric acid..

I just cleaned a REALLY rusty wire-EDM stainless steel
water storage tank and associated parts with citric
acid.. Works really well. Just leave the citric acid
solution for a day and the rust is gone..

The nice that is that citric acid is really safe,
you can drink it mixed to water as lemon juice..
It is used in many foods.. Afterwards, there is no
chemical waste that is difficult to get rid of..

Thanks! I'll give it a try. At least it's plenty safe.

I looked at some commercial stuff called "Whink", and it's hydroflouric
acid! I don't care how dilute the stuff is, I ain't going near it.

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
Kristian Ukkonen wrote in
:

On 12/29/2011 17:22, Doug White wrote:
snip
The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a
rubber ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know
oxalic acid is the classic cure, but I've never used it& was
wondering if there is a pre-mixed version I should look for at the
store, or some other flavor of chemical. I don't need much, but the
bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed off enough as it is without a
constant reminder.

Citric acid is nice.. For small needs, the stuff meant
for cleaning coffee maker is 100% citric acid..

I just cleaned a REALLY rusty wire-EDM stainless steel
water storage tank and associated parts with citric
acid.. Works really well. Just leave the citric acid
solution for a day and the rust is gone..

The nice that is that citric acid is really safe,
you can drink it mixed to water as lemon juice..
It is used in many foods.. Afterwards, there is no
chemical waste that is difficult to get rid of..

Thanks! I'll give it a try. At least it's plenty safe.

I looked at some commercial stuff called "Whink", and it's hydroflouric
acid! I don't care how dilute the stuff is, I ain't going near it.

Doug White

That is their toilet bowl cleaner. "Rust and Iron Stain Remover."

You want their laundry rust remover. "Rust Stain Remover"
From the MSDS
Sodium Bisulfate, Sodium Hydrosulfite, Sodium Chloride (NaCl), Sodium
Carbonate, Citric Acid, Blue Crystals.

It's in the laundry aisle at the supermarket.

Paul K. Dickman

On Thursday, December 29, 2011 7:22:22 AM UTC-8, Doug White wrote:
We had a bathroom renovated, whch is right over my shop. I carefully
covered everything up during the construction, but they left a time bomb
for me. The shut off valves for the ...hot
& cold water are leaking.

The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a rubber
ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know oxalic acid is
the classic cure

DON'T use oxalic on the STEEL; it's good to clean rust from the ESD mat,
as long as you don't get it near any steel hardware. Oxalic acid removes
rust, but also etches steel (and even stainless steel).

To clean the steel, I'd use those metal-finish Scotchbrite pads (gray or
maroon color codes), and maybe finish with some metal polish. Either
blue the steel or paint it immediately after you get it clean. Wax, oil,
and clear finishes are a bad idea (you can wear through 'em and never
know).

Even if the valve packing is good, water pipes can be covered with
condensation (like dew, only indoors) in some atmospheric conditions,
so insulation on the pipes is a good idea if you see moisture.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:35:35 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

[...]

DON'T use oxalic on the STEEL; it's good to clean rust from the ESD mat,
as long as you don't get it near any steel hardware. Oxalic acid removes
rust, but also etches steel (and even stainless steel).

[...]

Really? I have had very good results with Barkeepers Friend and so
have many others.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

In article ,
says...

Kristian Ukkonen wrote in
:

On 12/29/2011 17:22, Doug White wrote:
snip
The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a
rubber ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know
oxalic acid is the classic cure, but I've never used it& was
wondering if there is a pre-mixed version I should look for at the
store, or some other flavor of chemical. I don't need much, but the
bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed off enough as it is without a
constant reminder.

Citric acid is nice.. For small needs, the stuff meant
for cleaning coffee maker is 100% citric acid..

I just cleaned a REALLY rusty wire-EDM stainless steel
water storage tank and associated parts with citric
acid.. Works really well. Just leave the citric acid
solution for a day and the rust is gone..

The nice that is that citric acid is really safe,
you can drink it mixed to water as lemon juice..
It is used in many foods.. Afterwards, there is no
chemical waste that is difficult to get rid of..

Thanks! I'll give it a try. At least it's plenty safe.

I looked at some commercial stuff called "Whink", and it's hydroflouric
acid! I don't care how dilute the stuff is, I ain't going near it.

Go down to the grocery store and look in the detergents section and you
should find "Barkeeper's Friend" powder. Does a fine job on the kind of
stain you're talking about, it's cheap, and works fine on cookware as
well (it's recommended by several high-end manufacturers). Only
ingredient listed on the MSDS is oxalic acid at 10 percent.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:28:18 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Kristian Ukkonen wrote in
:

On 12/29/2011 17:22, Doug White wrote:
snip
The bench is nominally for electronics work, and is covered with a
rubber ESD mat. This now has nice rust stains all over it. I know
oxalic acid is the classic cure, but I've never used it& was
wondering if there is a pre-mixed version I should look for at the
store, or some other flavor of chemical. I don't need much, but the
bench look like hell, and I'm ****ed off enough as it is without a
constant reminder.

Citric acid is nice.. For small needs, the stuff meant
for cleaning coffee maker is 100% citric acid..

I just cleaned a REALLY rusty wire-EDM stainless steel
water storage tank and associated parts with citric
acid.. Works really well. Just leave the citric acid
solution for a day and the rust is gone..

The nice that is that citric acid is really safe,
you can drink it mixed to water as lemon juice..
It is used in many foods.. Afterwards, there is no
chemical waste that is difficult to get rid of..

Thanks! I'll give it a try. At least it's plenty safe.

I looked at some commercial stuff called "Whink", and it's hydroflouric
acid! I don't care how dilute the stuff is, I ain't going near it.

Go down to the grocery store and look in the detergents section and you
should find "Barkeeper's Friend" powder. Does a fine job on the kind of
stain you're talking about, it's cheap, and works fine on cookware as
well (it's recommended by several high-end manufacturers). Only
ingredient listed on the MSDS is oxalic acid at 10 percent.
CLR makes a good rust remover too - and IIRC ZUD is an oxalic acid
product that works good taking rust stains out of sinks and toiletss.