On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke



Go suck your strawman's dick, Hack. I made no comments about G.E. one
way or the other. I was simply telling Douchebag how he can avoid
paying his taxes.

On 11/18/2011 4:22 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke



Go suck your strawman's dick, Hack. I made no comments about G.E. one
way or the other. I was simply telling Douchebag how he can avoid
paying his taxes.



You don't really need to. But your duty as a right winger is to defend
anything that corporations do not matter how wrong or unfair they are.
In the case of taxes, GE makes billions and kicks in nothing to the
country. You aren't so lucky. Most would say that's completely unfair
for a working person like you to pay a big chunk of what you earn but
giant corporations to pay nothing. But you have to support and defend
the corporations so not matter what they do you support them. Now, that
makes no sense to me. You are happy to have your taxes higher so
companies like GE can get off not paying anything. Seems crazy to me but
you like it that way.

Hawke

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:17:48 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/18/2011 4:22 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke



Go suck your strawman's dick, Hack. I made no comments about G.E. one
way or the other. I was simply telling Douchebag how he can avoid
paying his taxes.



You don't really need to. But your duty as a right winger is to defend
anything that corporations do not matter how wrong or unfair they are.
In the case of taxes, GE makes billions and kicks in nothing to the
country. You aren't so lucky. Most would say that's completely unfair
for a working person like you to pay a big chunk of what you earn but
giant corporations to pay nothing. But you have to support and defend
the corporations so not matter what they do you support them. Now, that
makes no sense to me. You are happy to have your taxes higher so
companies like GE can get off not paying anything. Seems crazy to me but
you like it that way.

Hawke

It is not a matter of as you like it.

From what I read in the mentioned article it doesn't appear that they
are doing anything that hasn't been perfectly legal for years; even
before the Republicans took over the world. Profits earned by an
overseas corporation that has tax paid on it at source is not taxable
in the U.S. Been that way for years and years. The fact that one has
an agreement of some nature with that foreign entity does not
automatically infer taxes owed.

The U.S. government (to my personal knowledge) has, for years been
subsidizing goods and services and/or making other financial
incentives for people to do this or that.

The fact that advantage is taken of U.S. tax law does not
automatically infer sin.

But of course, it is a knee-jerk reaction. You see someone/something
with more money then you and automatically that old devil jealousy
rears its ugly head.

I might add that you have stated that you are financially independent
and able to live as you like on your investments, just as the sinners
in the top 1% of the nation do. In fact, from what I read
approximately 50% of the top 1% can be described exactly as you
describe yourself - collage trained, invested income, now financially
independent. What does that say? "don't do as I do; do as I say"?


--
John B.

On 11/19/2011 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:17:48 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/18/2011 4:22 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke



Go suck your strawman's dick, Hack. I made no comments about G.E. one
way or the other. I was simply telling Douchebag how he can avoid
paying his taxes.



You don't really need to. But your duty as a right winger is to defend
anything that corporations do not matter how wrong or unfair they are.
In the case of taxes, GE makes billions and kicks in nothing to the
country. You aren't so lucky. Most would say that's completely unfair
for a working person like you to pay a big chunk of what you earn but
giant corporations to pay nothing. But you have to support and defend
the corporations so not matter what they do you support them. Now, that
makes no sense to me. You are happy to have your taxes higher so
companies like GE can get off not paying anything. Seems crazy to me but
you like it that way.

Hawke

It is not a matter of as you like it.

From what I read in the mentioned article it doesn't appear that they
are doing anything that hasn't been perfectly legal for years; even
before the Republicans took over the world. Profits earned by an
overseas corporation that has tax paid on it at source is not taxable
in the U.S. Been that way for years and years. The fact that one has
an agreement of some nature with that foreign entity does not
automatically infer taxes owed.

The U.S. government (to my personal knowledge) has, for years been
subsidizing goods and services and/or making other financial
incentives for people to do this or that.

The fact that advantage is taken of U.S. tax law does not
automatically infer sin.

But of course, it is a knee-jerk reaction. You see someone/something
with more money then you and automatically that old devil jealousy
rears its ugly head.

I might add that you have stated that you are financially independent
and able to live as you like on your investments, just as the sinners
in the top 1% of the nation do. In fact, from what I read
approximately 50% of the top 1% can be described exactly as you
describe yourself - collage trained, invested income, now financially
independent. What does that say? "don't do as I do; do as I say"?


I'm using GE as a metaphor for what is wrong with the country. I
understand fully why GE has not paid any taxes. According to the tax
laws they don't owe any. But I'm just using GE as a symbol of what's
wrong. Namely, you have entities and individuals making huge incomes and
are not paying anything into the treasury while at the same time people
working for eight or ten dollars an hour are paying up to a third of
what they make in taxes. That situation is wrong and needs to be
changed. All that is required to ameliorate that is for the tax laws to
be changed.

Corporations used to pay nearly 30% of all tax revenues and now they pay
less than 7%. Someone has to make that up and it's the middle and lower
classes who have had to do it. That needs to be changed. Those with the
ability to pay are those who should pay.

As for myself, yes it's true that I do not have to be employed to live.
I would prefer to but in this economy the jobs just aren't there that I
would be doing if the economy was doing well. So for now I am living on
what comes in from investments. That's what I was shooting for all along
but unfortunately due to the recession and market drop in value I'm not
taking in anything near what the 1% are. It's enough to live on but not
enough to live like a king, that's for sure. So as usual nothing is as
one would like it to be.

Hawke

On Nov 20, 8:58*pm, Hawke wrote:


I'm using GE as a metaphor for what is wrong with the country.

It would be easier for all concerned if you would take a little time
and think before selecting a company to use as a symbol.

I
understand fully why GE has not paid any taxes. According to the tax
laws they don't owe any. But I'm just using GE as a symbol of what's
wrong. Namely, you have entities and individuals making huge incomes and
are not paying anything into the treasury while at the same time people
working for eight or ten dollars an hour are paying up to a third of
what they make in taxes. That situation is wrong and needs to be
changed. All that is required to ameliorate that is for the tax laws to
be changed.

If you are only talking about income taxes, then people making $10 an
hour are not paying any income taxes unless they have significant
income from other sources.


Corporations used to pay nearly 30% of all tax revenues and now they pay
less than 7%. Someone has to make that up and it's the middle and lower
classes who have had to do it. That needs to be changed. Those with the
ability to pay are those who should pay.

So it is Congress that made all the loopholes. Pick who to vote for
with care.

Dan


As for myself, yes it's true that I do not have to be employed to live.
I would prefer to but in this economy the jobs just aren't there that I
would be doing if the economy was doing well. So for now I am living on
what comes in from investments. That's what I was shooting for all along
but unfortunately due to the recession and market drop in value I'm not
taking in anything near what the 1% are. It's enough to live on but not
enough to live like a king, that's for sure. So as usual nothing is as
one would like it to be.

Hawke

On 11/21/2011 5:38 AM, John B. wrote:

As for myself, yes it's true that I do not have to be employed to live.
I would prefer to but in this economy the jobs just aren't there that I
would be doing if the economy was doing well. So for now I am living on
what comes in from investments. That's what I was shooting for all along
but unfortunately due to the recession and market drop in value I'm not
taking in anything near what the 1% are. It's enough to live on but not
enough to live like a king, that's for sure. So as usual nothing is as
one would like it to be.

Hawke

It is not a matter of how much your investments return.

I was saying, and you are confirming, that you did exactly as the
lower half of the top 1% have done. You worked and invested and now
you are secure. So, you are condemning people who did exactly as you
did and were either harder working or luckier then you and have a few
more quid. So, should you be assessed higher taxes simply because you
worked your butt off?

I'm not condemning anyone for making a lot of money unless they did it
unethically. I believe we all set out to work to make enough so that we
can retire and not still have to work to live. So whether I am there or
not is irrelevant as far as what I think is right. If I am barely making
it from what I have put away then I should not be taxed heavily. If I
made a fortune from my investments than be my guest and tax me at 50 or
75 percent of what I bring in. As long as my lifestyle is still lavish I
would not care how much I am paying in taxes. You pay according to your
ability to handle the burden. I believe that is a fair system.

And if not, why should others who only did as you did be penalized?

Paying high taxes is not a penalty of any kind. It's actually just what
goes along with making huge sums of money. You make a lot you are
obligated to pay in a lot too. Would you rather have the alternative?
You don't pay in much because you have very little? Not me. Tax me but
let me make a lot so I have plenty left over.


As for your "soak the rich" thesis, post your net worth and I can find
a hundred people who have less and would agree that your taxes should
be higher. So that certainly isn't a valid notion.

Just because you can find a number of people to go along with you
doesn't make them right. You can find plenty of jealous people. Instead
find a lot of objective people and ask them what's fair. Most would
agree with the theories of taxation we've had for the last 100 years or
so, if they know anything.


But to be more specific, why should Steve Jobs, for example, be
penalized because he started a company in the garage and guided and
goaded it into becoming a real money spinner?

Because as he goes from a kid fooling around in his garage and making
very little money to a rich businessman to ultra rich his ability to pay
increases and so does his tax bill. As you notice, even though you would
expect Jobs to have paid high taxes over the years he still became
fabulously rich, didn't he? So the high taxes didn't keep him from being
a billionaire. So I guess they weren't that high after all.



He already pays more dollars then most, why should the percentage of
tax he pays be higher then your's, for example? Solely because he has
more? The Robin Hood theory - take from the rich and give to the poor?

He should pay more because his ability to pay more is greater. You go on
a packing trip with your family and do you make up all the packs to be
of equal weight even though you have women and children with you? No you
don't. You figure how much each person can comfortably manage and you
give them a pack that they can handle. It's the same idea with the
taxes. People pay according to how much they can handle.



Ultimately, of course, your philosophy would result in a nation with
no one having more then the common herd, sort of a "dummying down" of
the financial system to match the dummying down of the education
system (which is now rated lower then Poland - so no more dumb Pollack
jokes). A noble purpose that, the creation of a poor. dumb, nation.


You would like to think that is what it would be like but you would be
wrong. We are not looking to make a system where everything is equal. We
want one where everything is fair though. That means we will have all
classes of people but we want most to be middle class with a small
number of poor and a small number of rich. We want most people to be
prosperous and have good lives but not to have very many living like
sultans or in poverty.

We just spent 30 years helping the upper class in the goofy notion that
if you make it better for them it will help all. We now know better than
that. So I say for the next 30 years we help the middle and lower
classes regain a stronger financial position and my bet is that by
helping the middle class you actually will help all the other classes as
well. That means taxing the top earners a lot more and lowering the tax
burden on everyone else. That alone will flatten out the inequality
curve that has gotten so out of whack over the last 3 decades. Much as
you dislike my methods they will work and they will make a better
country for most people. To me that's what I call fair. Not making a
country better for the top 300,000 people.

Hawke

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:17:48 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/18/2011 4:22 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke



Go suck your strawman's dick, Hack. I made no comments about G.E. one
way or the other. I was simply telling Douchebag how he can avoid
paying his taxes.



You don't really need to. But your duty as a right winger is to defend
anything that corporations do not matter how wrong or unfair they are.

Yap, yap, yap. You're forgetting that I voted for Obama. I won't be
making that mistaken again, he's getting none of my votes this time!

On 11/19/2011 5:59 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke



Go suck your strawman's dick, Hack. I made no comments about G.E. one
way or the other. I was simply telling Douchebag how he can avoid
paying his taxes.



You don't really need to. But your duty as a right winger is to defend
anything that corporations do not matter how wrong or unfair they are.

Yap, yap, yap. You're forgetting that I voted for Obama. I won't be
making that mistaken again, he's getting none of my votes this time!


Yeah, be smart and vote for Ron Paul. We'll all be glad you did.

Hawke

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke


Did you read the article? They said that 9 billion came from foreign
activities that weren't liable to US tax laws. which is not to say
that no tax was paid to a foreign entity. Next the article says that a
further 5 billion was exempted because it came form investments in low
cost housing, green energy, depreciation, etc.

So, apparently, in spite of your quote the other day about green
energy you feel that there should be no US government interest in
developing green energy? Inspite of your frequent remarks about the
little guy there should be no US government interest in developing or
building low cost housing? You feel that depreciation of property, the
recovering of monies used to purchase real property is not valid?
Depreciation, I might comment, was been an accepted accounting
practice under the Democrats....


--
John B.

On 11/18/2011 4:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke


Did you read the article? They said that 9 billion came from foreign
activities that weren't liable to US tax laws. which is not to say
that no tax was paid to a foreign entity. Next the article says that a
further 5 billion was exempted because it came form investments in low
cost housing, green energy, depreciation, etc.

So, apparently, in spite of your quote the other day about green
energy you feel that there should be no US government interest in
developing green energy? Inspite of your frequent remarks about the
little guy there should be no US government interest in developing or
building low cost housing? You feel that depreciation of property, the
recovering of monies used to purchase real property is not valid?
Depreciation, I might comment, was been an accepted accounting
practice under the Democrats....



I wasn't talking about green energy or profits made offshore. I was
simply making the point that multibillion dollar corporations are making
tons of money and not paying any taxes. Why wasn't up to question. The
point is if they aren't paying anything in taxes then who is? I say it's
the average working person who is paying if the corporations are not.
That's pretty clear isn't it?

I don't think that's right. I think those businesses should be paying
much closer to 30% of all the taxes to the treasury. I also find it
amusing that the average guy, who is paying for everything in this
country doesn't seem to mind that he's paying a lot of taxes and huge
corporations pay none. I find that ironic to say the least.

Hawke

On Nov 19, 4:52*pm, Hawke wrote:

I wasn't talking about green energy or profits made offshore. I was
simply making the point that multibillion dollar corporations are making
tons of money and not paying any taxes. Why wasn't up to question. The
point is if they aren't paying anything in taxes then who is? I say it's
the average working person who is paying if the corporations are not.
That's pretty clear isn't it?

So do you believe that companies should pay U.S. income taxes on
profits that are made outside the U.S.?



I don't think that's right. I think those businesses should be paying
much closer to 30% of all the taxes to the treasury. I also find it
amusing that the average guy, who is paying for everything in this
country doesn't seem to mind that he's paying a lot of taxes and huge
corporations pay none. I find that ironic to say the least.

So do you believe that companies ought to not follow the U. S. tax
code? That is, if Congress says it wants to encourage green energy
sources such as wind power and provides tax incentives to do so, that
G.E. should not build generators for wind mills.

I find it ironic that you want the government to encourage green
energy, but you then are upset that G.E. accepts the tax credits for
building generators for wind power. Make up your mind on what you
want.


Dan



Hawke

On 11/19/2011 4:34 PM, wrote:
On Nov 19, 4:52 pm, wrote:

I wasn't talking about green energy or profits made offshore. I was
simply making the point that multibillion dollar corporations are making
tons of money and not paying any taxes. Why wasn't up to question. The
point is if they aren't paying anything in taxes then who is? I say it's
the average working person who is paying if the corporations are not.
That's pretty clear isn't it?

So do you believe that companies should pay U.S. income taxes on
profits that are made outside the U.S.?

I haven't given that question much thought so I'm not sure where I stand
on that. But off the top of my head it seems fair that if a company is
an "American" company then they should pay some portion of taxes in
their home country no matter were they earn their profits.


I don't think that's right. I think those businesses should be paying
much closer to 30% of all the taxes to the treasury. I also find it
amusing that the average guy, who is paying for everything in this
country doesn't seem to mind that he's paying a lot of taxes and huge
corporations pay none. I find that ironic to say the least.

So do you believe that companies ought to not follow the U. S. tax
code? That is, if Congress says it wants to encourage green energy
sources such as wind power and provides tax incentives to do so, that
G.E. should not build generators for wind mills.

As I said in my last post I am using GE as a symbol for corporations
making lots of money and paying nothing in taxes while the little guy
pays a third of his income in taxes. My point is that unfairness of that
situation. GE is getting specific tax credits and breaks for things the
government is encouraging it to do. I'm all for that. But we have the
same thing to a certain extent going on with almost all companies. They
are all getting breaks so they can avoid paying taxes while the regular
guy gets none of that and pays a high percentage of what he makes.
That's not fair.


I find it ironic that you want the government to encourage green
energy, but you then are upset that G.E. accepts the tax credits for
building generators for wind power. Make up your mind on what you
want.


What I want is clear. I want corporations in general to pay a lot more
of the tax revenues for the country. I want the government to encourage
clean energy. I know that the companies that participate in these
programs get tax breaks. But way too many companies are getting way too
many breaks. Companies need to pay a lot more so that average guys can
keep more of their money, which they need very badly just to live on.

Hawke

On Nov 20, 9:08*pm, Hawke wrote:
On 11/19/2011 4:34 PM, wrote:

On Nov 19, 4:52 pm, *wrote:


So do you believe that companies should pay U.S. income taxes on
profits that are made outside the U.S.?

I haven't given that question much thought so I'm not sure where I stand
on that. But off the top of my head it seems fair that if a company is
an "American" company then they should pay some portion of taxes in
their home country no matter were they earn their profits.

Not a problem. Just expect a lot of companies to quit being "
American " companies. Well maybe they would still be American
companies, but Canadian companies instead of U.S. companies.


I don't think that's right. I think those businesses should be paying
much closer to 30% of all the taxes to the treasury. I also find it
amusing that the average guy, who is paying for everything in this
country doesn't seem to mind that he's paying a lot of taxes and huge
corporations pay none. I find that ironic to say the least.

So do you believe that companies ought to not follow the U. S. tax
code? *That is, if Congress says it wants to encourage green energy
sources such as wind power and provides tax incentives to do so, that
G.E. should not build generators for wind mills.

As I said in my last post I am using GE as a symbol for corporations
making lots of money and paying nothing in taxes while the little guy
pays a third of his income in taxes. My point is that unfairness of that
situation. GE is getting specific tax credits and breaks for things the
government is encouraging it to do. I'm all for that. But we have the
same thing to a certain extent going on with almost all companies. They
are all getting breaks so they can avoid paying taxes while the regular
guy gets none of that and pays a high percentage of what he makes.
That's not fair.

But you said you had investments in a lot of companies and read the
Annual reports.

Okay here is one. Nordstrom earned 991 million dollars before taxes.
They paid 378 million in income taxes. I calculate that as just over
38 %. Of course they paid other taxes too as real estate taxes.



I find it ironic that you want the government to encourage green
energy, but you then are upset that G.E. accepts the tax credits for
building generators for wind power. *Make up your mind on what you
want.

What I want is clear. I want corporations in general to pay a lot more
of the tax revenues for the country. I want the government to encourage
clean energy. I know that the companies that participate in these
programs get tax breaks. But way too many companies are getting way too
many breaks. Companies need to pay a lot more so that average guys can
keep more of their money, which they need very badly just to live on.

So pick your pony. Clean energy or companies paying more in income
taxes.

Of course you do realise that the average guy is going to come out
about the same. They can have more money after taxes but with GE
paying more income taxes, they will raise the price of electric
generators and the power companies will raise their rates. The same
with groceries , autos, gasoline , medicine etc.

Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.

Dan


Hawke

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 13:52:54 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/18/2011 4:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:12:01 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...

You wouldn't have to pay taxes either if you sucked Obama's dick,
instead of Gunner's.

sigh, another rcm troll



Yeah, look who's talking, and what's wrong with GE not paying any taxes?
It's the little people like you that should be paying them not our
corporations. They need lower taxes. Don't you remember your republican
talking points? Business needs a tax cut because they pay too much, just
like GE does.

By lowering their taxes we have to raise it on you and all the other
stupid low earners. You just don't get it. The rich aren't supposed to
pay taxes; it's the ordinary people who are supposed to foot the bills
for the country. You're supposed to just be happy that there are people
who have tons of money. They earned it so they should keep it. You and
people of your class should pay the country's bills, not them. I don't
get why you can't keep the republican agenda straight. It never changes.

Hawke


Did you read the article? They said that 9 billion came from foreign
activities that weren't liable to US tax laws. which is not to say
that no tax was paid to a foreign entity. Next the article says that a
further 5 billion was exempted because it came form investments in low
cost housing, green energy, depreciation, etc.

So, apparently, in spite of your quote the other day about green
energy you feel that there should be no US government interest in
developing green energy? Inspite of your frequent remarks about the
little guy there should be no US government interest in developing or
building low cost housing? You feel that depreciation of property, the
recovering of monies used to purchase real property is not valid?
Depreciation, I might comment, was been an accepted accounting
practice under the Democrats....



I wasn't talking about green energy or profits made offshore. I was
simply making the point that multibillion dollar corporations are making
tons of money and not paying any taxes. Why wasn't up to question. The
point is if they aren't paying anything in taxes then who is? I say it's
the average working person who is paying if the corporations are not.
That's pretty clear isn't it?

No it is not clear. What is wrong with a company making billions of
dollars? What is wrong with a company paying the taxes that the U.S.
Government mandates that they pay. which,if I read the article
correctly is just what they did. One can, I assume, equally well say
that Hawke is a sinner for taking the deductions on his personal
income tax.


I don't think that's right. I think those businesses should be paying
much closer to 30% of all the taxes to the treasury. I also find it
amusing that the average guy, who is paying for everything in this
country doesn't seem to mind that he's paying a lot of taxes and huge
corporations pay none. I find that ironic to say the least.

Hawke

Of course, and people who can afford to hire Tax consultants to
structure their lives also pay less tax then average. Should we shoot
all the H&R Block accountants.

The point is that following U.S Government laws and regulations is not
a sin and damning a corporation for doing so is simply ridiculous,
isn't it.

To put another light on your statement, taxing a company 30% implies
that the company will not have as high profits after tax as
previously, and what is the easiest cost to cut? Usually people, so
increasing taxes may well result in a reduction in available jobs, and
even possibly a reduction, however infinitesimal, in the tax paid. Not
to mention an added incentive to move off shore.

Your claim that a big company should pay a higher percent of their
profits as tax then a company that does less business is simply
rewarding mediocrity. If you work hard and prosper the government
takes more of your money than taken from the drone who is too lazy to
work.

After all Hawke, you have bragged about the fact that you have a
collage education and that you are financially secure, don't have to
work any more. Exactly the same description applies to people in the
bottom half of the top 1%. Collage education, worked hard, invested
their money, now financially secure through their own endeavors. Does
that mean that Hawke should pay more taxes?


--
John B.

On 11/19/2011 5:36 PM, John B. wrote:


I wasn't talking about green energy or profits made offshore. I was
simply making the point that multibillion dollar corporations are making
tons of money and not paying any taxes. Why wasn't up to question. The
point is if they aren't paying anything in taxes then who is? I say it's
the average working person who is paying if the corporations are not.
That's pretty clear isn't it?

No it is not clear. What is wrong with a company making billions of
dollars? What is wrong with a company paying the taxes that the U.S.
Government mandates that they pay. which,if I read the article
correctly is just what they did. One can, I assume, equally well say
that Hawke is a sinner for taking the deductions on his personal
income tax.

Nothing is wrong with a company making billions in profits. But that's
as long as they pay a fair share into the treasury. When they pay none
at all it's kind of hard to see it as fair. Simply because they come out
owing nothing due to the peculiarities of the tax code doesn't mean
that's fair. What if the tax code itself is unfair? You can be following
the rules perfectly but that doesn't' mean what you are doing is fair.


I don't think that's right. I think those businesses should be paying
much closer to 30% of all the taxes to the treasury. I also find it
amusing that the average guy, who is paying for everything in this
country doesn't seem to mind that he's paying a lot of taxes and huge
corporations pay none. I find that ironic to say the least.

Hawke

Of course, and people who can afford to hire Tax consultants to
structure their lives also pay less tax then average. Should we shoot
all the H&R Block accountants.

No, but they shouldn't be able to find ways to make it where lots of
money can be made without owing any tax debt, unless it's a special deal
the government is trying to foster.


The point is that following U.S Government laws and regulations is not
a sin and damning a corporation for doing so is simply ridiculous,
isn't it.

It's when the government and the corporation collude with each other and
it harms the majority of citizens that you have a problem. I see a
problem. One privileged group is making out like bandits and the
majority are eating it.


To put another light on your statement, taxing a company 30% implies
that the company will not have as high profits after tax as
previously, and what is the easiest cost to cut? Usually people, so
increasing taxes may well result in a reduction in available jobs, and
even possibly a reduction, however infinitesimal, in the tax paid. Not
to mention an added incentive to move off shore.

China has no problems like this. Business and the government don't
collude in China. In China the government tells business what to do and
they do it, or else. In our country way too often it works out just the
opposite, and it's been going on like this for quite a while not and
that is why there is so much inequality. Business and wealth have gotten
control over a lot of the government. That has caused a lot of misery
among ordinary Americans.


Your claim that a big company should pay a higher percent of their
profits as tax then a company that does less business is simply
rewarding mediocrity. If you work hard and prosper the government
takes more of your money than taken from the drone who is too lazy to
work.

That is not how the market works. The harder working company makes more
than the lazy company. That's a crock. Plenty of companies that don't do
well work like dogs but just don't succeed that well. It's more about
the popularity of products than about hard work. I'd wager all the phone
companies work just as hard as Apple does when it comes to making and
selling phones. It's just that Apple's phones sell a lot better than
their competitors. Apple makes more than the other phone companies so
they pay more in taxes. I don't say their tax rate should be different
from their less prosperous competitors. I say corporate tax rates should
be higher than what working class citizens are paying.



After all Hawke, you have bragged about the fact that you have a
collage education and that you are financially secure, don't have to
work any more. Exactly the same description applies to people in the
bottom half of the top 1%. Collage education, worked hard, invested
their money, now financially secure through their own endeavors. Does
that mean that Hawke should pay more taxes?


If I make more money than they do then yes I should. But if I only
barely make ends meet off of my investments and someone else makes a lot
more from a wage paying job then who should pay more? In that case I say
it's about how high is your income not how did you come by it. If I make
30K a year from investments and the other guy makes 120K from his job
then he should pay the higher rate.

Hawke

On 11/21/2011 5:38 AM, John B. wrote:

Nothing is wrong with a company making billions in profits. But that's
as long as they pay a fair share into the treasury. When they pay none
at all it's kind of hard to see it as fair. Simply because they come out
owing nothing due to the peculiarities of the tax code doesn't mean
that's fair. What if the tax code itself is unfair? You can be following
the rules perfectly but that doesn't' mean what you are doing is fair.

You have a strange viewpoint. The federal government says pay this
amount and a company pays it and you then say that it isn't fair.....

Right. Because that company paid someone to go to Washington and stay
there every day and try to get the government to give them breaks that
the rest of us can't ever get. That company has tremendous power to
influence the government to do it's bidding. We've seen examples of this
for 100 years. First it was the shipping industry and timber, then it
was the railroads, and then oil. All of them used their power to get
what they wanted from the government. So when the government asks for a
pittance from them you know that's not the same kind of deal you or I get.


To be frank this sounds very like the people who smoke pot and say,
pot isn't as much of a health risk as drinking whiskey and then say it
isn't fair when they get arrested...

That does sound unfair alright. Whiskey is a lot worse for your health
than pot and you don't get arrested for using it. Do you think the
people who make whiskey have a better lobby than the pot smokers do?




By the way, do you take all the deductions that the tax department
allows you? Or do you say, "Oh well, did pretty well on the
securities this year", and mail the government 30%?

I do, but as a little guy I'm not able to get what the big guys do. I'm
only asking to pay what is fair for what one's economic position is.
People making under 50K a year should pay very little in taxes. How can
they live if they are giving up 10K or more of that money when you
consider how much it costs just to live? Compare that to someone making
ten million who gives up seven in taxes but has three million a year to
live on. You don't see the difference?



I don't think that's right. I think those businesses should be paying
much closer to 30% of all the taxes to the treasury. I also find it
amusing that the average guy, who is paying for everything in this
country doesn't seem to mind that he's paying a lot of taxes and huge
corporations pay none. I find that ironic to say the least.

Hawke

Of course, and people who can afford to hire Tax consultants to
structure their lives also pay less tax then average. Should we shoot
all the H&R Block accountants.

No, but they shouldn't be able to find ways to make it where lots of
money can be made without owing any tax debt, unless it's a special deal
the government is trying to foster.

Hawke, the government makes certain regulations and specify what, in
certain circumstances, you must do. Why do you say that obeying these
regulations and doing exactly what the government specifies is unfair?

Because it all depends on what part of the government you are dealing
with. If you have to obey traffic laws or follow building codes or
things like that then the government is pretty darn fair. You won't see
you getting special treatment on your building permits and I don't. So
for most areas of the government the regulations are applied equally.
When you get into other areas, especially where big, powerful entities
are involved, and with specific agencies, then you see the unfairness.



The point is that following U.S Government laws and regulations is not
a sin and damning a corporation for doing so is simply ridiculous,
isn't it.

It's when the government and the corporation collude with each other and
it harms the majority of citizens that you have a problem. I see a
problem. One privileged group is making out like bandits and the
majority are eating it.

There you go again. But if I'm not mistaken you have a wife and I
assume that when you file your income tax you take the married
deduction and I'm equally sure that a single guy would say that since
you are paying less tax then he does it is unfair.

No wife. Single, white male so it doesn't apply to me. But this issue
has been argued many times and there is a specific argument why married
people pay more. I don't recall what the justification is but I know a
lot of people think it's fair and a lot disagree. I couldn't tell you
one way or the other on this but a lot of times this is how it goes. One
person thinks one thing is fair and the other disagrees.


But more to the point referring to your collusion theory. the last
company I worked for was established in 1975 and thus couldn't
possibly colluded with anyone before that date. However they did file
their taxes in strict accordance with the tax code applicable to their
company and any changes to the code that occurred after the company
was formed. Are they guilty of some crime?

Probably not. Most companies comply with the tax code. Everyone tries to
pay as little as possible. The question is does the government treat us
all fairly. I don't think so and I think the powerful have gotten a
better deal. Is the company you refer to one of them? I don't know.



To put another light on your statement, taxing a company 30% implies
that the company will not have as high profits after tax as
previously, and what is the easiest cost to cut? Usually people, so
increasing taxes may well result in a reduction in available jobs, and
even possibly a reduction, however infinitesimal, in the tax paid. Not
to mention an added incentive to move off shore.

China has no problems like this. Business and the government don't
collude in China. In China the government tells business what to do and
they do it, or else. In our country way too often it works out just the
opposite, and it's been going on like this for quite a while not and
that is why there is so much inequality. Business and wealth have gotten
control over a lot of the government. That has caused a lot of misery
among ordinary Americans.

Don't be too sure about what the Chinese do. It is pretty much a new
ball game over there now. The people's Republic is now very much a
profit center. The Agricultural Bank of China recently had a US$22
billion initial public offering (IPO) - the world's largest, I
believe. Due you really think that the government is dictating to
these people?

Yeah! Do communist leaders rule? Yeah! The rulers give business a free
hand as much as they think it needs. But no more. And everybody knows
who's really the boss and it's the government that calls the tune not
the corporations. Just the opposite of what we have here.



Your claim that a big company should pay a higher percent of their
profits as tax then a company that does less business is simply
rewarding mediocrity. If you work hard and prosper the government
takes more of your money than taken from the drone who is too lazy to
work.

That is not how the market works. The harder working company makes more
than the lazy company. That's a crock. Plenty of companies that don't do
well work like dogs but just don't succeed that well. It's more about
the popularity of products than about hard work. I'd wager all the phone
companies work just as hard as Apple does when it comes to making and
selling phones. It's just that Apple's phones sell a lot better than
their competitors. Apple makes more than the other phone companies so
they pay more in taxes. I don't say their tax rate should be different
from their less prosperous competitors. I say corporate tax rates should
be higher than what working class citizens are paying.


Assuming that you are talking about the blue collar, working man, why
should the company he works for pay more tax then he does? After all
if it weren't for the company the bloke wouldn't even have a job. and
don't talk about how the company makes all the money on the back of
the poor working man. while it might once have been true but with the
advent of the labor unions it isn't true any more.

Because a company isn't a person and companies don't deserve the same
rights as a human being does. A company is just an artificial construct
for a group of people to accomplish some goal. You don't treat that kind
of thing the same as a human. So workers get special treatment compared
to businesses, at least according to me. That's probably backwards
according to any businessman but then I think their view is no humane.


After all Hawke, you have bragged about the fact that you have a
collage education and that you are financially secure, don't have to
work any more. Exactly the same description applies to people in the
bottom half of the top 1%. Collage education, worked hard, invested
their money, now financially secure through their own endeavors. Does
that mean that Hawke should pay more taxes?


If I make more money than they do then yes I should. But if I only
barely make ends meet off of my investments and someone else makes a lot
more from a wage paying job then who should pay more? In that case I say
it's about how high is your income not how did you come by it. If I make
30K a year from investments and the other guy makes 120K from his job
then he should pay the higher rate.

Hawke

But what about the people making minimum wages at McDonalds. Doesn't
your philosophy indicate that you should share with them? After all
you are one of the bloated plutocrats, living off interest instead of
earning your daily crust like an honest man. After all, if you have
municipal bonds in your portfolio you aren't even paying minimum tax
on those and those poor devils swabbing the floor there have to pay on
everything.


If the guy at McDonald's makes 20K a year in wages and I make 20K a year
in dividends and interest shouldn't we pay the same tax rate? I think
so. OTOH, if I make 2 million from my portfolio and he makes 20K then I
think I should be paying a much higher rate than he does. Even if you
take one of the two million I made in a year I can live great on a
million. If you take anything from the McDonald's guy you're really
depriving him of any kind of decent life. Personally, I would never do
that to those on the bottom of the ladder. That's why we pay different
rates.

Hawke

On 11/18/2011 11:12 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 11/17/2011 8:30 PM, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:13:37 -0500,
wrote:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html


General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a
whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't
pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed
electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and
stacked.

...


ignoring the innuendo attempted trolling there are at least three things
wrong with this - the size of the tax return (how much does it cost to
prepare a 57.000 page return?), the disproportionality, and the
accounting methods that can turn profit into loss.

That said, there is a fine argument to be made that corporations should
not pay taxes on business profits, only on real-estate and other assets.
tax profits only when they are distributed to real humans. Of
course, that would mean that corporations are not real humans and
therefore probably don't have first amendment rights. Maybe proposing
this will lead to fun as the republican fundies explode trying to decide
if they would rather lower taxes for corporations or have their dollars
as donations.

--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM