Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a groove
made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of being
good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would make the
process better?

--
www.wescottdesign.com
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Nov 17, 2:28*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? *Would a groove
made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of being
good enough? *Can you think of any simple fixturing that would make the
process better?

--www.wescottdesign.com


I have never been able to make a nice groove in a round piece with a
dremel, it grabs and cuts an arc, and with music wire (how thick?) the
wire would be bending a bit, too.

If you have a straight shot at the end you could make a small
toolholder that fits over the end of the wire, maybe bottoms out, and
has a cutter that you advance with a screw, almost like a tubing
cutter but with a small parting tool, or a collar with a setscrew but
the setscrew advances a parting tool.

Dave
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a groove
made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of being
good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would make the
process better?


Works on my backhoe, no reason it can't on your model airplanes...of
course I use thicker snap-rings on the hoe on bigger parts, but that is
essentially how I cut them in-situ when needed.

For a "fixture" try a section or two of plastic tubing that fits snugly
over the wire to register the cutting wheel against (or between, with
two.) It will wear a bit, but should be better than pure freehand. Or
rig up a deal with a hole that you stick the end through and then turn
the bent-up wire as a crank to rotate it against a jigged disk.

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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:31:54 -0800, Dave__67 wrote:

On Nov 17, 2:28Â*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would
you put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Â*Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? Â*Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?

--www.wescottdesign.com


I have never been able to make a nice groove in a round piece with a
dremel, it grabs and cuts an arc, and with music wire (how thick?) the
wire would be bending a bit, too.

If you have a straight shot at the end you could make a small toolholder
that fits over the end of the wire, maybe bottoms out, and has a cutter
that you advance with a screw, almost like a tubing cutter but with a
small parting tool, or a collar with a setscrew but the setscrew
advances a parting tool.


It's 1/8" diameter, and I was thinking of something along the lines of
your toolholder idea.

--
www.wescottdesign.com
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Nov 17, 4:53*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:31:54 -0800, Dave__67 wrote:
On Nov 17, 2:28*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.


Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would
you put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? *Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? *Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?


--www.wescottdesign.com


I have never been able to make a nice groove in a round piece with a
dremel, it grabs and cuts an arc, and with music wire (how thick?) the
wire would be bending a bit, too.


If you have a straight shot at the end you could make a small toolholder
that fits over the end of the wire, maybe bottoms out, and has a cutter
that you advance with a screw, almost like a tubing cutter but with a
small parting tool, or a collar with a setscrew but the setscrew
advances a parting tool.


It's 1/8" diameter, and I was thinking of something along the lines of
your toolholder idea.

--www.wescottdesign.com


I would say you could sell such an item... there's a good need in the
RC industry for a reasonable way to cut a nice C-clip groove in, say,
a 5mm ground motor shaft.

Dave


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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a groove
made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of being
good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would make the
process better?


Simple bushing and a bit of cyanoacrlyic glue? Need em off..stick a
soldering gun on the end of the wire for a moment or two and it breaks
the glue.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

Tim Wescott wrote:
Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a groove
made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of being
good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would make the
process better?


Make a jig with a hole for the wire. Cut a slot in it to position the
wheel. Rotate the wire while the wheel cuts.

Even a very shallow groove would lock a push nut style retainer.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Pus...FV9?Pid=search

or maybe a pretty version
http://www.boltproducts.com/cap-nuts.html


--
Steve W.
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:40:46 -0500, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a groove
made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of being
good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would make the
process better?


Works on my backhoe, no reason it can't on your model airplanes...of
course I use thicker snap-rings on the hoe on bigger parts, but that is
essentially how I cut them in-situ when needed.

For a "fixture" try a section or two of plastic tubing that fits snugly
over the wire to register the cutting wheel against (or between, with
two.) It will wear a bit, but should be better than pure freehand. Or
rig up a deal with a hole that you stick the end through and then turn
the bent-up wire as a crank to rotate it against a jigged disk.

I've put snap ring/E-clip grooves in a lot of pins down to ~5mm by
mounting the pin in the vertical lathe (drill press) and cutting the
groove with a mini hacksaw.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:35:12 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?


Simple bushing and a bit of cyanoacrlyic glue? Need em off..stick a
soldering gun on the end of the wire for a moment or two and it breaks
the glue.


That should work -- I have trouble trusting glue, but that's a me
problem, not a glue problem.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600
Tim Wescott wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a groove
made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of being
good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would make the
process better?


I would use an abrasive cutoff disk in my Dremel, very carefully.

Have you seen these clips before?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#circle-clips/=ezp5lz

Specifically this one (McMaster links don't always work right):

http://www.mcmaster.com/#94824A100

or search on item #94824A100. These are for 4mm shafts, maybe too
big but may give you some other ideas. They also have crimp on clips
like ##90102A011.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#90102A011

Another off-the-wall idea is to try using bicycle wheel spokes. They
are around 1/8 inch and already come with a threaded end. An old spoke
nut works pretty good to use as a crimp-on too. I've used same to crimp
on bicycle cables to stop the end from fraying.

--
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Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:55:02 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600
Tim Wescott wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?


I would use an abrasive cutoff disk in my Dremel, very carefully.

Have you seen these clips before?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#circle-clips/=ezp5lz

Specifically this one (McMaster links don't always work right):

http://www.mcmaster.com/#94824A100

or search on item #94824A100. These are for 4mm shafts, maybe too big
but may give you some other ideas. They also have crimp on clips like
##90102A011.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#90102A011

Another off-the-wall idea is to try using bicycle wheel spokes. They are
around 1/8 inch and already come with a threaded end. An old spoke nut
works pretty good to use as a crimp-on too. I've used same to crimp on
bicycle cables to stop the end from fraying.


Actually I think the 90153A212 looks better.

I have never seen a bicycle wheel spoke that was 1/8" in diameter.
They're more like 14 or 16 gauge. Motorcycle spokes, maybe.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:53:17 -0600
Tim wrote:

snip
Actually I think the 90153A212 looks better.

I have never seen a bicycle wheel spoke that was 1/8" in diameter.
They're more like 14 or 16 gauge. Motorcycle spokes, maybe.


My bad, I measured a bicycle spoke, ~.085 and a quick search found only
14 gauge max. Motorcycle I have now doesn't have spokes like that but
they are quite a bit bigger.

Your in the best position to judge, but I was afraid that clip could
possibly catch on things like weeds and maybe pop off. I've used some
of those #94824A100 clips before and I don't think they would come off
unintentionally.

--
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Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:31:23 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:53:17 -0600
Tim wrote:

snip
Actually I think the 90153A212 looks better.

I have never seen a bicycle wheel spoke that was 1/8" in diameter.
They're more like 14 or 16 gauge. Motorcycle spokes, maybe.


My bad, I measured a bicycle spoke, ~.085 and a quick search found only
14 gauge max. Motorcycle I have now doesn't have spokes like that but
they are quite a bit bigger.

Your in the best position to judge, but I was afraid that clip could
possibly catch on things like weeds and maybe pop off. I've used some of
those #94824A100 clips before and I don't think they would come off
unintentionally.


That's a good point that I hadn't considered. Most competition stunt
flying is done off of paved circles, but nearly all of my practice flying
is done off of grass (well, short weeds).

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:53:17 -0600, Tim wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:55:02 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600
Tim Wescott wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would
you put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?


I would use an abrasive cutoff disk in my Dremel, very carefully.

Have you seen these clips before?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#circle-clips/=ezp5lz

Specifically this one (McMaster links don't always work right):

http://www.mcmaster.com/#94824A100

or search on item #94824A100. These are for 4mm shafts, maybe too big
but may give you some other ideas. They also have crimp on clips like
##90102A011.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#90102A011

Another off-the-wall idea is to try using bicycle wheel spokes. They
are around 1/8 inch and already come with a threaded end. An old spoke
nut works pretty good to use as a crimp-on too. I've used same to
crimp on bicycle cables to stop the end from fraying.


Actually I think the 90153A212 looks better.

I have never seen a bicycle wheel spoke that was 1/8" in diameter.
They're more like 14 or 16 gauge. Motorcycle spokes, maybe.


So, I made some grooves by hand with the Dremel tool, and hand made a
couple of hairpin clips. We'll see how it works.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com


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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:35:22 -0600, Tim
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:53:17 -0600, Tim wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:55:02 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600
Tim Wescott wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would
you put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?

I would use an abrasive cutoff disk in my Dremel, very carefully.


So, I made some grooves by hand with the Dremel tool, and hand made a
couple of hairpin clips. We'll see how it works.


Were you able to retain any semblance of a sharp shoulder?
Didja mount the Dremel, build a jig, and just rotate the spokes into
the cutter, or try to freehand it?

--
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the
necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create.
-- Raoul Vaneigem
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:35:22 -0600
Tim wrote:

snip
So, I made some grooves by hand with the Dremel tool, and hand made a
couple of hairpin clips. We'll see how it works.


I've become terribly frugal of late and I'm sure that is what I would
have done too. If I happened to stumble upon some of the other options
suggested (clips, rings, doo-dads...) I would probably snatch them up
with this use in mind.

It occurred to me after one of my previous posts that those "hub-caps"
you were eying would probably protect the clip from getting
inadvertently snagged/removed too.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600, Tim Wescott wrote:

Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.

Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?


D'oh, d'oh, d'oh.

I was showing my landing gear to a guy at a fun-fly yesterday, and he
said "just sweat-solder some brass tubing with the right ID onto that,
drill a hole in the end, and use a little cotter pin".

D'oh.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

--There's a simpler way to do it but I don't know the proper name
for the part. Basically it's a jam-fit washer; it's got little fins on the
i.d. that bend to grip the shaft it's slid onto. Very hard to remove but
very easy to install and they're really cheap. You can probably get 'em at
an auto parts store.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Jan 4, 12:43*pm, steamer wrote:
* * * * --There's a simpler way to do it but I don't know the proper name
for the part. Basically it's a jam-fit washer; it's got little fins on the
i.d. that bend to grip the shaft it's slid onto. Very hard to remove but
very easy to install and they're really cheap. You can probably get 'em at
an auto parts store.

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
* * * * Hacking the Trailing Edge! *: *Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
* * * * * * * * * * * * *www.nmpproducts.com
* * * * * * * * * *---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---


push nuts/push-on retainers/cap nuts/axle caps

http://www.mcmaster.com/#push-nuts/=fnwgjm

Dave


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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On Jan 2, 3:08*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:40 -0600, Tim Wescott wrote:
Same reasons as for my annealing post: I'm trying to do a nicer job of
mounting wheels on model airplanes.


Given a piece of music wire that's already bent up (because you don't
really know where the end is going to be until it's bent), how would you
put a snap ring groove in a piece of hardened music wire? *Would a
groove made by a 1/32" cutoff disk in a Dremel tool have any chance of
being good enough? *Can you think of any simple fixturing that would
make the process better?


D'oh, d'oh, d'oh.

I was showing my landing gear to a guy at a fun-fly yesterday, and he
said "just sweat-solder some brass tubing with the right ID onto that,
drill a hole in the end, and use a little cotter pin".

D'oh.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Softwarehttp://www.wescottdesign.com


Idea being the tubing is fairly easy to drill compared to the music
wire?

I was at a new-years day fly Sunday, some folks got up before the wind
got too nuts (was gusting above 20 when I arrived).


Dave
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Default Speaking of Snap Rings -- Music Wire

On 2012-01-04, steamer wrote:
--There's a simpler way to do it but I don't know the proper name
for the part. Basically it's a jam-fit washer; it's got little fins on the
i.d. that bend to grip the shaft it's slid onto. Very hard to remove but
very easy to install and they're really cheap. You can probably get 'em at
an auto parts store.


I think that the official term is "Tinnerman fastener"

Here, one of the first that I found with a Google search, under
the name "Rectangular Push-on", but also look at "Plastic Cap Push-ons"
and "Round Push-ons":

http://www.abcorfasteners.com/

The rectangular push-ons go down to smaller sizes, but the round ones
don't have sharp corners waiting to nick you. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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