Buying the Fadal mill
 

I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter.

Don't use a ****ty out-of-the-box converter (even name brand), as they use
start caps that are never switched out, causing a wild leg that can be 30 V
over line V.

Separate the start caps from the running caps, which will be lower value
caps between both L1-L3, and L2-L3 (L1-L2 = line).

Also make sure the voltage taps on the Fadal are set for your local
voltage.


Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check tomorrow.

What year, whadja pay?? What's yer location?

It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?

There are *complete* online manuals, good qual. pdf's, I think from MAG.
*Identical* to the hard copy, ceptin now you can search'em. Free.

Tapping heads on a drill press? Their advantage is torque control, for less
breakage.
Don't know much about other tap methods on VMC's.

But the rigid tapping is fast, clean, accurate, you'll be spoilt forever.
Also, I believe rigid tapping can handle roll taps better, which I now use
on alum almost all the time.
I'm rigid tapping as we speak. :)

Post to alt.machines.cnc (what's left of it), and also the
PrecisionMachinist forum, which has forums in various categories. No Fadal
forum per se (iirc), but lots of fadal users there.
--
EA






Thanks,
Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:38:13 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter.

Don't use a ****ty out-of-the-box converter (even name brand), as they use
start caps that are never switched out, causing a wild leg that can be 30 V
over line V.

Separate the start caps from the running caps, which will be lower value
caps between both L1-L3, and L2-L3 (L1-L2 = line).

Also make sure the voltage taps on the Fadal are set for your local
voltage.


Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check tomorrow.

What year, whadja pay?? What's yer location?

It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?

There are *complete* online manuals, good qual. pdf's, I think from MAG.
*Identical* to the hard copy, ceptin now you can search'em. Free.

Tapping heads on a drill press? Their advantage is torque control, for less
breakage.
Don't know much about other tap methods on VMC's.

But the rigid tapping is fast, clean, accurate, you'll be spoilt forever.
Also, I believe rigid tapping can handle roll taps better, which I now use
on alum almost all the time.
I'm rigid tapping as we speak. :)

Post to alt.machines.cnc (what's left of it), and also the
PrecisionMachinist forum, which has forums in various categories. No Fadal
forum per se (iirc), but lots of fadal users there.
Year 1996, $18,500, comes with4th axis, Whidbey Island WA. The phase
converter I'm runing is a good one that has proven itself for years
running CNC machines. How is rigid tapping faster? Do you program the
machine to back out faster than going in? As far as form taps go, I've
never had a problem with them being used in tapping heads.
Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On 11/15/2011 10:41 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:38:13 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter.

Don't use a ****ty out-of-the-box converter (even name brand), as they use
start caps that are never switched out, causing a wild leg that can be 30 V
over line V.

Separate the start caps from the running caps, which will be lower value
caps between both L1-L3, and L2-L3 (L1-L2 = line).

Also make sure the voltage taps on the Fadal are set for your local
voltage.


Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check tomorrow.

What year, whadja pay?? What's yer location?

It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?

There are *complete* online manuals, good qual. pdf's, I think from MAG.
*Identical* to the hard copy, ceptin now you can search'em. Free.

Tapping heads on a drill press? Their advantage is torque control, for less
breakage.
Don't know much about other tap methods on VMC's.

But the rigid tapping is fast, clean, accurate, you'll be spoilt forever.
Also, I believe rigid tapping can handle roll taps better, which I now use
on alum almost all the time.
I'm rigid tapping as we speak. :)

Post to alt.machines.cnc (what's left of it), and also the
PrecisionMachinist forum, which has forums in various categories. No Fadal
forum per se (iirc), but lots of fadal users there.
Year 1996, $18,500, comes with4th axis, Whidbey Island WA. The phase
converter I'm runing is a good one that has proven itself for years
running CNC machines. How is rigid tapping faster? Do you program the
machine to back out faster than going in? As far as form taps go, I've
never had a problem with them being used in tapping heads.
Eric

Rigid tapping.. Once you use it you'll love it.
First, most machines with rigid tapping will retract faster than when
they go in, this is normally a setting in the parameters. Second, you
can re-tap a hole because of the machine knows the clocking of the
spindle. This comes in really handy when you tap a large number of holes
and think you went deep enough but find out that you didn't. But you
don't want to do this if your using a floating holder. You must use a
rigid setup to do this.

Buying the Fadal mill
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:38:13 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter.

Don't use a ****ty out-of-the-box converter (even name brand), as they use
start caps that are never switched out, causing a wild leg that can be 30
V
over line V.

Separate the start caps from the running caps, which will be lower value
caps between both L1-L3, and L2-L3 (L1-L2 = line).

Also make sure the voltage taps on the Fadal are set for your local
voltage.


Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check tomorrow.

What year, whadja pay?? What's yer location?

It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?

There are *complete* online manuals, good qual. pdf's, I think from MAG.
*Identical* to the hard copy, ceptin now you can search'em. Free.

Tapping heads on a drill press? Their advantage is torque control, for
less
breakage.
Don't know much about other tap methods on VMC's.

But the rigid tapping is fast, clean, accurate, you'll be spoilt forever.
Also, I believe rigid tapping can handle roll taps better, which I now use
on alum almost all the time.
I'm rigid tapping as we speak. :)

Post to alt.machines.cnc (what's left of it), and also the
PrecisionMachinist forum, which has forums in various categories. No
Fadal
forum per se (iirc), but lots of fadal users there.
Year 1996, $18,500, comes with4th axis,

Hopefully low hours on the machine, but hard to tell.
The 4th axis is Da Bomb. Mine is very heavy (on a fadal 3016), so I keep it
permanently hoisted inside the cabinet on a winch, so mounting it is easier
for me by myself than for two people with all kinds of pneumatic tables in a
trad'l shop.


Whidbey Island WA. The phase
converter I'm runing is a good one that has proven itself for years
running CNC machines.

Well, check the generated leg. If it's 20+ volts above line, then you've
just been lucking out, and should separate the start caps from the run caps,
and tune the run caps.


How is rigid tapping faster? Do you program the
machine to back out faster than going in?

Hmmm, I don't, but I'll have to check the retract thing out. I meant to
years ago, never got around to it. Or I did, and it wasn't supported. I'll
check again.

Overall, it's faster cuz you just program in spot, drill, tap with one hole
pattern in a subroutine, and all that tnik said -- peck tapping, in essence.
And, if you want to get real sophisticated, thread cutting, which these
fadals don't support as canned cycles, so you'd have to use software or
program your own cycles, as the machine will helically interpolate, if it
has the CS-88 controller.

As far as form taps go, I've
never had a problem with them being used in tapping heads.

Well, they require higher torques, and the fadal should be able to handle up
to mebbe 3/4" with not much trouble.
--
EA


Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

Jon Elson wrote:

On 11/14/2011 09:59 PM, wrote:
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
A big advantage for me is I can use combination drill-taps and be sure
they start the hole accurately without spotting, drilling, then tapping.
I have used a tapping head before, but it is a long stack out of the
spindle, and there is some free play in the tap holding end, so it
doesn't guarantee accurate positioning of the starting hole.

If this machine has an ATC, that may be less of a concern, although the
combo drill-taps are really fast if they suit your material thickness.

Jon

For through holes...

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On 11/14/2011 09:59 PM, wrote:
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
A big advantage for me is I can use combination drill-taps and be sure
they start the hole accurately without spotting, drilling, then tapping.
I have used a tapping head before, but it is a long stack out of the
spindle, and there is some free play in the tap holding end, so it
doesn't guarantee accurate positioning of the starting hole.

If this machine has an ATC, that may be less of a concern, although the
combo drill-taps are really fast if they suit your material thickness.

Jon

Buying the Fadal mill
 

wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:46:45 -0500, tnik wrote:

On 11/15/2011 10:41 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:38:13 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter.

Don't use a ****ty out-of-the-box converter (even name brand), as they use
start caps that are never switched out, causing a wild leg that can be 30 V
over line V.

Separate the start caps from the running caps, which will be lower value
caps between both L1-L3, and L2-L3 (L1-L2 = line).

Also make sure the voltage taps on the Fadal are set for your local
voltage.


Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check tomorrow.

What year, whadja pay?? What's yer location?

It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?

There are *complete* online manuals, good qual. pdf's, I think from MAG.
*Identical* to the hard copy, ceptin now you can search'em. Free.

Tapping heads on a drill press? Their advantage is torque control, for less
breakage.
Don't know much about other tap methods on VMC's.

But the rigid tapping is fast, clean, accurate, you'll be spoilt forever.
Also, I believe rigid tapping can handle roll taps better, which I now use
on alum almost all the time.
I'm rigid tapping as we speak. :)

Post to alt.machines.cnc (what's left of it), and also the
PrecisionMachinist forum, which has forums in various categories. No Fadal
forum per se (iirc), but lots of fadal users there.
Year 1996, $18,500, comes with4th axis, Whidbey Island WA. The phase
converter I'm runing is a good one that has proven itself for years
running CNC machines. How is rigid tapping faster? Do you program the
machine to back out faster than going in? As far as form taps go, I've
never had a problem with them being used in tapping heads.
Eric

Rigid tapping.. Once you use it you'll love it.
First, most machines with rigid tapping will retract faster than when
they go in, this is normally a setting in the parameters. Second, you
can re-tap a hole because of the machine knows the clocking of the
spindle. This comes in really handy when you tap a large number of holes
and think you went deep enough but find out that you didn't. But you
don't want to do this if your using a floating holder. You must use a
rigid setup to do this.
I noticed this just today running the mill and using rigid tapping for
some pipe threads. All the burrs at the entry of the holes occurred in
the same place. Then I thought about it and realized that the timing
is going to be the same on every hole.
Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:18:05 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:38:13 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter.

Don't use a ****ty out-of-the-box converter (even name brand), as they use
start caps that are never switched out, causing a wild leg that can be 30
V
over line V.

Separate the start caps from the running caps, which will be lower value
caps between both L1-L3, and L2-L3 (L1-L2 = line).

Also make sure the voltage taps on the Fadal are set for your local
voltage.


Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check tomorrow.

What year, whadja pay?? What's yer location?

It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?

There are *complete* online manuals, good qual. pdf's, I think from MAG.
*Identical* to the hard copy, ceptin now you can search'em. Free.

Tapping heads on a drill press? Their advantage is torque control, for
less
breakage.
Don't know much about other tap methods on VMC's.

But the rigid tapping is fast, clean, accurate, you'll be spoilt forever.
Also, I believe rigid tapping can handle roll taps better, which I now use
on alum almost all the time.
I'm rigid tapping as we speak. :)

Post to alt.machines.cnc (what's left of it), and also the
PrecisionMachinist forum, which has forums in various categories. No
Fadal
forum per se (iirc), but lots of fadal users there.
Year 1996, $18,500, comes with4th axis,

Hopefully low hours on the machine, but hard to tell.
The 4th axis is Da Bomb. Mine is very heavy (on a fadal 3016), so I keep it
permanently hoisted inside the cabinet on a winch, so mounting it is easier
for me by myself than for two people with all kinds of pneumatic tables in a
trad'l shop.


Whidbey Island WA. The phase
converter I'm runing is a good one that has proven itself for years
running CNC machines.

Well, check the generated leg. If it's 20+ volts above line, then you've
just been lucking out, and should separate the start caps from the run caps,
and tune the run caps.


How is rigid tapping faster? Do you program the
machine to back out faster than going in?

Hmmm, I don't, but I'll have to check the retract thing out. I meant to
years ago, never got around to it. Or I did, and it wasn't supported. I'll
check again.

Overall, it's faster cuz you just program in spot, drill, tap with one hole
pattern in a subroutine, and all that tnik said -- peck tapping, in essence.
And, if you want to get real sophisticated, thread cutting, which these
fadals don't support as canned cycles, so you'd have to use software or
program your own cycles, as the machine will helically interpolate, if it
has the CS-88 controller.

As far as form taps go, I've
never had a problem with them being used in tapping heads.

Well, they require higher torques, and the fadal should be able to handle up
to mebbe 3/4" with not much trouble.
The phase converter voltages are very close. Fanuc controls,
especially the older ones, are quite sensitive to over or under
voltages on one leg. The machine is in a friend's shop now. He has to
sell the machine so I'm buying it. Today I was running a job with both
a pipe tap and thread mill. So I guess it must have the right kind of
control for thread milling. And the 4th axis is really nice. But at
165 lbs I'll be using an engine hoist to put it in and out.
Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?

Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On 11/16/2011 9:57 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?

Eric


You can and we have before, especially when we didn't have a tap holder
in stock. But we have found out that it's much safer to use a rigid tap
holder. Least if its in a tap holder, you KNOW the tap isn't going to
spin. Plus we have a bunch of tap holders anyway for the machines we
have that don't have rigid tapping.

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:52:00 -0500, tnik wrote:

On 11/16/2011 9:57 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?

Eric


You can and we have before, especially when we didn't have a tap holder
in stock. But we have found out that it's much safer to use a rigid tap
holder. Least if its in a tap holder, you KNOW the tap isn't going to
spin. Plus we have a bunch of tap holders anyway for the machines we
have that don't have rigid tapping.

I use my TG100 collet holders for rigid tapping. Werks grate for 1/2
and down. I spun the tap with bad results on 5/8x11 in 4140.

Karl

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:57:35 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?

Eric

They work fine on a drill press or lathe.


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Buying the Fadal mill
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?


You would still do well to buy at least one rigid or floating chuck and a
handful of adapters to use wherever it is advantageous to drive from the
square tang--but mostly they are only needed for larger diameters...say 1/2
or so and above and in tough materials like stainless where high torque
requirments might otherwise allow the tap to slip.

That said, you'll usually also be able to better control thread tolerance
limits with tap adapters because they typically allow for the tap to wiggle
a slight amount on the radial axis and so it tends to center itself instead
of being horsed into the material, producing a loose hole...

--something to consider for instance if you are doing a aircraft work in
aluminum where 3B fits are the norm.

Buying the Fadal mill
 

"tnik" wrote in message
...
On 11/16/2011 9:57 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?

Eric


You can and we have before, especially when we didn't have a tap holder in
stock. But we have found out that it's much safer to use a rigid tap
holder. Least if its in a tap holder, you KNOW the tap isn't going to
spin. Plus we have a bunch of tap holders anyway for the machines we have
that don't have rigid tapping.

Well, if a tap is going to spin, it almost always will spin on entry and on
reversal it will come back out of the part just fine and so whether or not
it breaks off instead of backing out is largely dependant on how far it can
be shoved upwards before bottoming out in the collet, and I would much
rather have the tap spin and ruin a collet than to have it break off and
**** up an expensive part but even then it's still kind of a crap shoot.

That said, even though there is rigid tapping on two out of our three
Fadals, I don't use it simply because most of our workload repeats...which
means that I would have to either edit at the machine, produce a duplicate
program for pretty every freakin job that involves tapping, or maintain a
list of jobs that can't run across the machine that lacks the function ( and
try to schedule production accordingly ) all of which IMO would
unnecessarily complicate things.

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:10:22 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?


You would still do well to buy at least one rigid or floating chuck and a
handful of adapters to use wherever it is advantageous to drive from the
square tang--but mostly they are only needed for larger diameters...say 1/2
or so and above and in tough materials like stainless where high torque
requirments might otherwise allow the tap to slip.

That said, you'll usually also be able to better control thread tolerance
limits with tap adapters because they typically allow for the tap to wiggle
a slight amount on the radial axis and so it tends to center itself instead
of being horsed into the material, producing a loose hole...

--something to consider for instance if you are doing a aircraft work in
aluminum where 3B fits are the norm.

Thanks everyone for the answers about tapping. Since the machines come
with tap adapters already I'll continue to use them when I can but if
a job comes up with more tap sizes than I have adapters I'll run the
smaller taps in regular holders. Especially since I almost always try
to put class 3 threads in or on whatever I'm machining. Since this
will be my first mill with a toolchanger I need to learn as much as
possible about optimizing tooling.
Eric

Buying the Fadal mill
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:10:22 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?


You would still do well to buy at least one rigid or floating chuck and a
handful of adapters to use wherever it is advantageous to drive from the
square tang--but mostly they are only needed for larger diameters...say
1/2
or so and above and in tough materials like stainless where high torque
requirments might otherwise allow the tap to slip.

That said, you'll usually also be able to better control thread tolerance
limits with tap adapters because they typically allow for the tap to
wiggle
a slight amount on the radial axis and so it tends to center itself
instead
of being horsed into the material, producing a loose hole...

--something to consider for instance if you are doing a aircraft work in
aluminum where 3B fits are the norm.

Thanks everyone for the answers about tapping. Since the machines come
with tap adapters already I'll continue to use them when I can but if
a job comes up with more tap sizes than I have adapters I'll run the
smaller taps in regular holders. Especially since I almost always try
to put class 3 threads in or on whatever I'm machining. Since this
will be my first mill with a toolchanger I need to learn as much as
possible about optimizing tooling.


Sounds like a plan.

A pretty good method is to have some larger collet chucks say for instance
in the DA180 and/ or TG100 series and then buy spare collets in the 3/4 and
1 in sizes for them so that if the need arises where you need to run a whole
bunch of small drills etc, you can put straight shank extension chucks in
them that your smaller collets will fit into.

The logic behind this is because oftentimes where you have several different
sized holes in a part and they are all over say...5/8 or so in diameter,
you might just as well to drill undersize and interpolate with an endmill
rather than to try and stock your crib with a myriad of the large drill
sizes in attempt to cover every possible contingency..

--Yes it might take a bit longer to interpolate but oftentimes it's more
expedient than to purchase drills if doing short run work and also
considering that since the VMC 15 has no mechanical reduction, it's torque
is seriously lacking at the lower rpm ranges and so you can run into
problems with spindle stalling especially when running large HSS drills in
alloy steels.

Buying the Fadal mill
 

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:12:12 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:10:22 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:16:48 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message
om...
I posted a while back that I might be buying a Fadal mill and running
it from a phase converter. Well, I'm buying it. I'll write the check
tomorrow. It's a model VMC-15 and has rigid tapping so I guess I'll
need that parameter changing info. Also, just what is the advantage of
rigid tapping over tapping heads?
Thanks,
Eric

The main advantage of having rigid tapping is that it allows you to use
standard drilling collets and chucks instead of having to buy a bunch of
additional specialty tooling that is only useful for tapping.

So all the compression/tension tap holders and collets I'm also buying
are not neded? I can just hold the taps in ER collets for example?


You would still do well to buy at least one rigid or floating chuck and a
handful of adapters to use wherever it is advantageous to drive from the
square tang--but mostly they are only needed for larger diameters...say
1/2
or so and above and in tough materials like stainless where high torque
requirments might otherwise allow the tap to slip.

That said, you'll usually also be able to better control thread tolerance
limits with tap adapters because they typically allow for the tap to
wiggle
a slight amount on the radial axis and so it tends to center itself
instead
of being horsed into the material, producing a loose hole...

--something to consider for instance if you are doing a aircraft work in
aluminum where 3B fits are the norm.

Thanks everyone for the answers about tapping. Since the machines come
with tap adapters already I'll continue to use them when I can but if
a job comes up with more tap sizes than I have adapters I'll run the
smaller taps in regular holders. Especially since I almost always try
to put class 3 threads in or on whatever I'm machining. Since this
will be my first mill with a toolchanger I need to learn as much as
possible about optimizing tooling.


Sounds like a plan.

A pretty good method is to have some larger collet chucks say for instance
in the DA180 and/ or TG100 series and then buy spare collets in the 3/4 and
1 in sizes for them so that if the need arises where you need to run a whole
bunch of small drills etc, you can put straight shank extension chucks in
them that your smaller collets will fit into.

The logic behind this is because oftentimes where you have several different
sized holes in a part and they are all over say...5/8 or so in diameter,
you might just as well to drill undersize and interpolate with an endmill
rather than to try and stock your crib with a myriad of the large drill
sizes in attempt to cover every possible contingency..

--Yes it might take a bit longer to interpolate but oftentimes it's more
expedient than to purchase drills if doing short run work and also
considering that since the VMC 15 has no mechanical reduction, it's torque
is seriously lacking at the lower rpm ranges and so you can run into
problems with spindle stalling especially when running large HSS drills in
alloy steels.

The torque problem is one I deal with running parts on the lathe. I
have one lathe with no gear reduction but a 15 hp spindle. I have
another with a 10 hp spindle but it has a gearbox that goes all the
way down below 200 rpm. So it gets used for big stuff or when using
big drills on SS. It's nice that the Fadal interpolates round holes.
This is something I'll need to get used to thinking about.
Eric