Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Surface grinder question

First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.

thanks

i
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Default Surface grinder question


"Ignoramus20025" wrote in message
...
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.


Normal finish grind allowance is about .005


I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.

thanks

i



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Default Surface grinder question

On 8/18/2011 11:52 PM, Ignoramus20025 wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.

thanks

i



We all have a pretty good idea of the kind of stuff you do. I don't
think you need a surface grinder. I only use mine for die making and
sharpening and for some high-precision parts that I have to hold .0005"
or so. Sell it!
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Default Surface grinder question

On 2011-08-19, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
On 8/18/2011 11:52 PM, Ignoramus20025 wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.

thanks

i



We all have a pretty good idea of the kind of stuff you do. I don't
think you need a surface grinder. I only use mine for die making and
sharpening and for some high-precision parts that I have to hold .0005"
or so. Sell it!


Thanks Tom. I will think some more, but I am leaning in the direction
of your thought.

i
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Default Surface grinder question

On 2011-08-19, Ignoramus20025 wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?


You could use it to make a precise spacer to go between bearings
for the proper pre-load. Or shims to space something just right. Or,
if you want a really flat surface for something.

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.


50 thousandths -- Hmm ... you might be able to 0.0005" depth per
pass, so figure 100 passes to reach your depth. And figure a *lot* of
passes to go across the face of the anvil, since you don't cut across
the full width of the stone at a time. Maybe 0.050" per pass at a given
depth. If the machine has automatic feeds, you can set it up and read
something while you work -- but you want to be there to hear if it
starts to bind. You'll probably need to dress the wheel a few times
during that 0.050" depth of cut. (Harold should drop in here and give
*real* figures.) I'm working from the amount of metal my little purely
manual Sanford can handle. Patience is truly a necessity for removing
much metal. I think that a Blanchard grinder might be a quicker way to
get most of that 0.050" off -- and then go to the surface grinder for
the final finish passes.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.


Nice. Does it have provisions for coolant? (Mine does not,
which is probably one reason for my slow cutting.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Default Surface grinder question


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2011-08-19, Ignoramus20025 wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?


You could use it to make a precise spacer to go between bearings
for the proper pre-load. Or shims to space something just right. Or,
if you want a really flat surface for something.

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.


50 thousandths -- Hmm ... you might be able to 0.0005" depth per
pass, so figure 100 passes to reach your depth. And figure a *lot* of
passes to go across the face of the anvil, since you don't cut across
the full width of the stone at a time. Maybe 0.050" per pass at a given
depth. If the machine has automatic feeds, you can set it up and read
something while you work -- but you want to be there to hear if it
starts to bind. You'll probably need to dress the wheel a few times
during that 0.050" depth of cut. (Harold should drop in here and give
*real* figures.)


My biggest concern would be the weight of the anvil. If it's not large, it
would work reasonably well, assuming the machine has hydraulic feed.
Cranking the weight by hand would get old fast.

Depth of cut, assuming one has coolant, and uses the right wheel, could be
as great as .008" per pass, but with modest step-over. I'd suggest
something like .03" per pass. It goes pretty fast that way. The wheel may
require dressing after each pass, or not. It's pretty easy to know when
it's time, as the crisp edge of the wheel deteriorates, causing the cut to
labor. Coolant would be almost a must, although with the mass of an
anvil, a lot of heat could be absorbed.

Surface grinders are wonderful machines if applied properly.

Something to consider. Motors on precision grinders are not of the common
variety. They are generally precision balanced, and should not be replaced
by single phase motors, even if they are balanced. The pulsation of the
single phase motor will generally manifest itself in the surface finish.
If you can't provide three phase power, I'd suggest you not get involved
unless absolutely necessary. You're bound to be disappointed.

Grinding is an art. You can work to .000050" with a good surface grinder,
but you must have a firm understanding of proper procedures. One must not
be ham handed.

I think that a Blanchard grinder might be a quicker way to
get most of that 0.050" off

I agree, assuming one is at disposal. They're a real work horse.

Harold

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Default Surface grinder question

On 8/19/2011 1:28 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2011-08-19, wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?


You could use it to make a precise spacer to go between bearings
for the proper pre-load. Or shims to space something just right. Or,
if you want a really flat surface for something.

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.


50 thousandths -- Hmm ... you might be able to 0.0005" depth per
pass, so figure 100 passes to reach your depth. And figure a *lot* of
passes to go across the face of the anvil, since you don't cut across
the full width of the stone at a time. Maybe 0.050" per pass at a given
depth. If the machine has automatic feeds, you can set it up and read
something while you work -- but you want to be there to hear if it
starts to bind. You'll probably need to dress the wheel a few times
during that 0.050" depth of cut. (Harold should drop in here and give
*real* figures.) I'm working from the amount of metal my little purely
manual Sanford can handle. Patience is truly a necessity for removing
much metal. I think that a Blanchard grinder might be a quicker way to
get most of that 0.050" off -- and then go to the surface grinder for
the final finish passes.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.


Nice. Does it have provisions for coolant? (Mine does not,
which is probably one reason for my slow cutting.)

Enjoy,
DoN.



Yea boy...I sure wish I could fall into a Blanch grinder! I DID fall
into an Arter rotary surface grinder to sharpen concave round cutters.
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Default Surface grinder question

On 8/19/2011 11:57, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
Something to consider. Motors on precision grinders are not of the
common variety. They are generally precision balanced, and should not be
replaced by single phase motors, even if they are balanced. The
pulsation of the single phase motor will generally manifest itself in
the surface finish. If you can't provide three phase power, I'd suggest
you not get involved unless absolutely necessary. You're bound to be
disappointed.


One can easily get 3 phase power to motor from VFD so
that is not a problem nowadays. Just a VFD that takes
1 phase input and outputs 3 phase to motor. Ebay..

Kristian Ukkonen.
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Default Surface grinder question

On 2011-08-19, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
On 8/19/2011 1:28 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2011-08-19, wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?


You could use it to make a precise spacer to go between bearings
for the proper pre-load. Or shims to space something just right. Or,
if you want a really flat surface for something.

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.


50 thousandths -- Hmm ... you might be able to 0.0005" depth per
pass, so figure 100 passes to reach your depth. And figure a *lot* of
passes to go across the face of the anvil, since you don't cut across
the full width of the stone at a time. Maybe 0.050" per pass at a given
depth. If the machine has automatic feeds, you can set it up and read
something while you work -- but you want to be there to hear if it
starts to bind. You'll probably need to dress the wheel a few times
during that 0.050" depth of cut. (Harold should drop in here and give
*real* figures.) I'm working from the amount of metal my little purely
manual Sanford can handle. Patience is truly a necessity for removing
much metal. I think that a Blanchard grinder might be a quicker way to
get most of that 0.050" off -- and then go to the surface grinder for
the final finish passes.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.


Nice. Does it have provisions for coolant? (Mine does not,
which is probably one reason for my slow cutting.)

Enjoy,
DoN.



Yea boy...I sure wish I could fall into a Blanch grinder! I DID fall
into an Arter rotary surface grinder to sharpen concave round cutters.


I may be able to sell you one, cheap.

i
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Default Surface grinder question

On 8/19/2011 7:32 AM, Ignoramus25624 wrote:
On 2011-08-19, Tom Gardnermars@tacks wrote:
On 8/19/2011 1:28 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2011-08-19, wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?

You could use it to make a precise spacer to go between bearings
for the proper pre-load. Or shims to space something just right. Or,
if you want a really flat surface for something.

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.

50 thousandths -- Hmm ... you might be able to 0.0005" depth per
pass, so figure 100 passes to reach your depth. And figure a *lot* of
passes to go across the face of the anvil, since you don't cut across
the full width of the stone at a time. Maybe 0.050" per pass at a given
depth. If the machine has automatic feeds, you can set it up and read
something while you work -- but you want to be there to hear if it
starts to bind. You'll probably need to dress the wheel a few times
during that 0.050" depth of cut. (Harold should drop in here and give
*real* figures.) I'm working from the amount of metal my little purely
manual Sanford can handle. Patience is truly a necessity for removing
much metal. I think that a Blanchard grinder might be a quicker way to
get most of that 0.050" off -- and then go to the surface grinder for
the final finish passes.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.

Nice. Does it have provisions for coolant? (Mine does not,
which is probably one reason for my slow cutting.)

Enjoy,
DoN.



Yea boy...I sure wish I could fall into a Blanch grinder! I DID fall
into an Arter rotary surface grinder to sharpen concave round cutters.


I may be able to sell you one, cheap.

i


Shipping would be a killer! Where I am there is more industrial
equipment than you can imagine and more going to market every day.
BUT...thanks, let me know what you have access to.


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Default Surface grinder question

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 06:09:29 -0400, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:

On 8/19/2011 7:32 AM, Ignoramus25624 wrote:
On 2011-08-19, Tom Gardnermars@tacks wrote:


Yea boy...I sure wish I could fall into a Blanch grinder! I DID fall
into an Arter rotary surface grinder to sharpen concave round cutters.


I may be able to sell you one, cheap.

i


Shipping would be a killer! Where I am there is more industrial
equipment than you can imagine and more going to market every day.
BUT...thanks, let me know what you have access to.


What, a mere 300 miles? Nah! You'll have riggers ringing your phone
off the hook to do the job for less than the price of one of your
reloading sessions, I'll bet.

Or ask Scotty to beam it over. (I hope I live to see that tech come
about.)

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson
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Default Surface grinder question

On 8/20/2011 7:40 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 06:09:29 -0400, Tom Gardnermars@tacks wrote:

On 8/19/2011 7:32 AM, Ignoramus25624 wrote:
On 2011-08-19, Tom Gardnermars@tacks wrote:


Yea boy...I sure wish I could fall into a Blanch grinder! I DID fall
into an Arter rotary surface grinder to sharpen concave round cutters.

I may be able to sell you one, cheap.

i


Shipping would be a killer! Where I am there is more industrial
equipment than you can imagine and more going to market every day.
BUT...thanks, let me know what you have access to.


What, a mere 300 miles? Nah! You'll have riggers ringing your phone
off the hook to do the job for less than the price of one of your
reloading sessions, I'll bet.

Or ask Scotty to beam it over. (I hope I live to see that tech come
about.)

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson



One of my customers asked us to send somebody to a machine auction
that's about 2-1/2 hours away and bid on a BIG lathe. Used, it should
go for $15k. Roger loves road trips and buying used machines, he
usually leaves a dealer bleeding. My customer makes "Dodge-Em" cars for
amusement parks and we make brushes that are the electrical contacts
with the floor. How cool is THAT? All for good customer relations!
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Default Surface grinder question

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 00:01:22 -0500, Ignoramus20025
wrote:

On 2011-08-19, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
On 8/18/2011 11:52 PM, Ignoramus20025 wrote:
First of all, how often are surface grinders needed in the context of
buying-repairing-selling of machinery or general screwing around?

Second, say, I wanted to resurface the face of an anvil. How long will
it take to do with something like a Boyar-Schultz 612 Deluxe surface
grinder (non-CNC)? Taking off, say, 50 thousandths from a face of an
anvil.

I have one and I am trying to decide if I need to keep it or sell.
Mine has an electromagnetic chuck.

thanks

i



We all have a pretty good idea of the kind of stuff you do. I don't
think you need a surface grinder. I only use mine for die making and
sharpening and for some high-precision parts that I have to hold .0005"
or so. Sell it!


Thanks Tom. I will think some more, but I am leaning in the direction
of your thought.

i


Ive got a Ramco copy of the B&S 618...and I think Ive used it a half
dozen times in the 10 yrs Ive owned it.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".
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Default Surface grinder question



"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

On 8/20/2011 7:40 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 06:09:29 -0400, Tom Gardnermars@tacks wrote:

On 8/19/2011 7:32 AM, Ignoramus25624 wrote:
On 2011-08-19, Tom Gardnermars@tacks wrote:


Yea boy...I sure wish I could fall into a Blanch grinder! I DID fall
into an Arter rotary surface grinder to sharpen concave round cutters.

I may be able to sell you one, cheap.

i


Shipping would be a killer! Where I am there is more industrial
equipment than you can imagine and more going to market every day.
BUT...thanks, let me know what you have access to.


What, a mere 300 miles? Nah! You'll have riggers ringing your phone
off the hook to do the job for less than the price of one of your
reloading sessions, I'll bet.

Or ask Scotty to beam it over. (I hope I live to see that tech come
about.)

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson



One of my customers asked us to send somebody to a machine auction
that's about 2-1/2 hours away and bid on a BIG lathe. Used, it should
go for $15k. Roger loves road trips and buying used machines, he
usually leaves a dealer bleeding. My customer makes "Dodge-Em" cars for
amusement parks and we make brushes that are the electrical contacts
with the floor. How cool is THAT? All for good customer relations!


Something made in the US. That's cool enough for me.

Garrett Fulton

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Default Surface grinder question

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 23:46:47 -0400, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:

On 8/20/2011 7:40 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
What, a mere 300 miles? Nah! You'll have riggers ringing your phone
off the hook to do the job for less than the price of one of your
reloading sessions, I'll bet.

Or ask Scotty to beam it over. (I hope I live to see that tech come
about.)


One of my customers asked us to send somebody to a machine auction
that's about 2-1/2 hours away and bid on a BIG lathe. Used, it should
go for $15k. Roger loves road trips and buying used machines, he
usually leaves a dealer bleeding. My customer makes "Dodge-Em" cars for
amusement parks and we make brushes that are the electrical contacts
with the floor. How cool is THAT? All for good customer relations!


Way cool. So, does Roger transport, or just say "Get it moved."?

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson


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Default Surface grinder question

Does anyone know how to remove a motor on a boyar Schltz 618 grinder?
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