Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Drilling and brazing a fuel tank

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 06:05:48 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:43:27 -0500, Ignoramus24437
wrote:

I sense a little bit of B/S and scare talk here.

I think that people whose tanks exploded, did nothing to purge them,
had liquids in them, and got punished.

In my case, the tank is completely free of liquids (which dried out
days ago) and the only thing that it has is vapors, if any.

If, say, it has an incredible high concentration of fuel vapors, then,
purging the tank by something like 10x the volume of air (from a home
vacuum cleaner or compressor for a few minutes), would leave, more or
less, nothing as far as vapors are concerned.

The volume of the tank is less than 4 CF, and running my 15 CFM
compressor for just 5 minutes, would provide about 20 times the volume
of air in the tank.


You're probably right. But, I'd use the suspenders and belt approach.
No fuel plus no O2 = double safe.

A garden hose from your car exhaust to the tank only take a couple
minutes.

Karl

A garden hose from the exhaust is NOT going to do the job.

For cripes sake - BORROW a CO2 extinguisher if you are too cheap to
buy one, and get it refilled when you are finished. Your ass is worth
more than 10 bucks!!!!




i


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Default Drilling and brazing a fuel tank

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 06:46:46 -0500, Ignoramus15459
wrote:

On 2011-07-12, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus24437 fired this volley in
:

I sense a little bit of B/S and scare talk here.

I think that people whose tanks exploded, did nothing to purge them,
had liquids in them, and got punished.


Maybe more mis-information than BS.

Gasoline tanks are repaired or modified commercially every day, with
complete safety.

Empty, wash, dry, bake out, and purge with an inert substance.

If you can't smell the gasoline, there's not enough present to form an
explosive mixture.


I agree with every sentence that you wrote.

i

PURGE WITH AN INERT SUBSTANCE - is the secret - and KEEP IT FULL.
Water does not count.
You want an inert substance that can absorb and dispurse any traces
of fuel vapour, and any trace of oxygen in the tank.oducing a mixture
that is too weak by an order of magnitude, to burn.

Water can't do this. CO2 can. Argon can. Even Nitrogen can.
If using auto exhaust, you need a large (roughly 2 inch ) hose, a well
warmed up and properly running engine, and several minutes of purge
before starting to weld - with the exhaust still flowing.
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Default Drilling and brazing a fuel tank

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 06:25:02 -0500, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net
wrote:



Ignoramus24437 wrote:

I sense a little bit of B/S and scare talk here.

I think that people whose tanks exploded, did nothing to purge them,
had liquids in them, and got punished.

In my case, the tank is completely free of liquids (which dried out
days ago) and the only thing that it has is vapors, if any.

If, say, it has an incredible high concentration of fuel vapors, then,
purging the tank by something like 10x the volume of air (from a home
vacuum cleaner or compressor for a few minutes), would leave, more or
less, nothing as far as vapors are concerned.

The volume of the tank is less than 4 CF, and running my 15 CFM
compressor for just 5 minutes, would provide about 20 times the volume
of air in the tank.


Actualy the common danger of oxyacetylene welding or cutting on a tank
is the potential for accumulating explosive mixtures from the torch
itself. People have blown them selves up cutting on tanks that never
contained any flammable material.

-jim


BS. If you are CUTTING the mixture is extremely lean - high in Oxygen
- and if there is ANY fuel in the container, it is oxidized by the
extra OXYGEN. There is NEVER any leftover acetelene during a cutting
operation. You don't (can't) cut with a carburizing flame


i


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Default Drilling and brazing a fuel tank

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:51:14 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:48:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:59:39 -0500, Ignoramus15459
wrote:

On 2011-07-12, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 06:45:39 -0500, Ignoramus15459
wrote:

On 2011-07-12, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 02:19:36 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Ignoramus24437 wrote:

I sense a little bit of B/S and scare talk here.


Go ahead and blow your fool head off.

Dibs on the Lincoln welder!!

Iggy has evidently never seen a gasoline vapor explosion.

I hope he never does. But YouTube may be of assistance in his learning
journey.

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ine+vapor+expl

Gunner


You two gave the exact example of "B/S and scare talk" that I was
referring to.

i

Of course we did. Did you view the links I provided?

Yes, they were all about tanks full of gasoline when they exploded.


So you are admitting to not having viewed any of the links. Pity.

Did I mention I have..had rather..a good friend who blew a lsmall
chunk of a Ford pickup truck gas tank directly through his lower
descending aorta and bled to death within a few seconds, while
brazing up a hole in it and another who suffered 3rd degree burns
and razed the garage to the ground, while doing something similar on
a VW gas tank? Both of course were empty. Jack has had 4 skin
grafts so far and he can talk pretty well these day.

But hey...I guess they were simply victims of B/S and scare talk huh?

No, but like I said, they probably did not observe the precautions.


Actually...they did. Not well enough...shrug....

Do as you wish Iggy. Frankly..while I like you a lot...Im getting tired
of holding your hand and being told Im an idiot.

So do as I suggested..fire up the torch (forget the long pole) and
direct the flame into the gas tank. Better yet..look into the filler
nozzle while doing so. You can get a really good look and see if its
rusty in there. Really.

I will do just that and will video tape it too

i


Good for you Lad! Ballsy fellow! Onward!!!

Dibs on your SA-200

Gunner

If he's pointed the right direction you might not even need to have it
delivered!!!

Anyone who cuts or welds on a container that has EVER contained
gosoline or other flamables without taking adequate precautions is a
fool and an idiot.
And "adequate" does not mean "barely adequate", or "should be good
enough".


Watching the video of the guy on top of the tanker welding was very
informative. As was the huge fireball.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:07:26 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 06:05:48 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:43:27 -0500, Ignoramus24437
wrote:

I sense a little bit of B/S and scare talk here.

I think that people whose tanks exploded, did nothing to purge them,
had liquids in them, and got punished.

In my case, the tank is completely free of liquids (which dried out
days ago) and the only thing that it has is vapors, if any.

If, say, it has an incredible high concentration of fuel vapors, then,
purging the tank by something like 10x the volume of air (from a home
vacuum cleaner or compressor for a few minutes), would leave, more or
less, nothing as far as vapors are concerned.

The volume of the tank is less than 4 CF, and running my 15 CFM
compressor for just 5 minutes, would provide about 20 times the volume
of air in the tank.


You're probably right. But, I'd use the suspenders and belt approach.
No fuel plus no O2 = double safe.

A garden hose from your car exhaust to the tank only take a couple
minutes.

Karl

A garden hose from the exhaust is NOT going to do the job.

For cripes sake - BORROW a CO2 extinguisher if you are too cheap to
buy one, and get it refilled when you are finished. Your ass is worth
more than 10 bucks!!!!




i


Many of us use Co2 for mig welding..and it doesnt take much from a mig
tank to purge a large gas tank. Not much at all.


Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.


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Default Drilling and brazing a fuel tank

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:29:34 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Water can't do this. CO2 can. Argon can. Even Nitrogen can.
If using auto exhaust, you need a large (roughly 2 inch ) hose, a well
warmed up and properly running engine, and several minutes of purge
before starting to weld - with the exhaust still flowing.


You've never actually done this, have you Clare?

LLoyd

Lost count how many gas tanks I have repaired. Used exhaust for quite
a few years - then started using CO2. Using a garden hose from an auto
exhaust, most of the exhaust bypasses the hose unless you pack around
it with rags etc. I used to just put the shop exhaust hose over the
tailpipe, and connect it to the filler neck withthe tank unit out and
let it run a few minutes,until the tank was warm - then start brazing
(or soldering)

I've tried water too - but unless you are going to arc weld, there is
way too much thermal mass.. With CO2, it is DEAD SIMPLE. And the
repair can even be made on the car if the leak is not on the top of
the tank, you can reach it to clean it, and there is nothing flamable
too close to the tank.
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Default Drilling and brazing a fuel tank

On Jul 15, 11:04*pm, wrote:


Trust me Iggy - it is STILL a potential bomb. What does a CO2 fire
extinguisher refil cost?????



A lot more than some dry ice that someone mentioned.

Dan


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On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:04:48 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 15, 11:04Â*pm, wrote:


Trust me Iggy - it is STILL a potential bomb. What does a CO2 fire
extinguisher refil cost?????



A lot more than some dry ice that someone mentioned.

Dan

Depends where you are. Getting dry ice in some areas is not nearly as
SIMPLE... But yes, if available it will definitely work - and well.
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