Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old May 20th 11, 03:18 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On May 20, 8:13 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
Yes! From decades of self-teaching, I can suggest my own solution: two or
three books, written by different authors, that explain the same thing in
different ways. ...

Ed Huntress


I've found that I need an intuitive explanation first to provide a
framework to file away the subsequent formulaic ones, which killed me
when I got to Laplace Transforms.


Aha. Yes, I have some of that affliction too. I grow impatient with purely
abstract explanations until I have a picture in my head.


Unfortunately some good mathematicians have a limited ability to think
visually. My first physics teacher couldn't look at a sign support on
the front of a building and tell whether the diagonal brace was in
tension or compression. He had to solve the algebra and see the sign
of the result. A girlfriend's father who taught physics had quit
chemistry because he couldn't imagine the 3 dimensional molecular
structures.

She was a lovely, classy lady who didn't help me concentrate on math
and molecules either.

jsw


You're drifting, Jim. g That's another affliction we share.

--
Ed Huntress



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Old May 20th 11, 03:46 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Yes! From decades of self-teaching, I can suggest my own solution: two or
three books, written by different authors, that explain the same thing in
different ways. I open them all at the same time and switch back and forth.
This was particularly useful to me in learning semiconductor theory many
years ago, but it works for all kinds of subjects. It also helped me a great
deal with the metallurgy of steel, which often is oversimplified until you
can't understand what the mechanisms are.

The Web often is even better at providing multiple sources, but, as we all
know, it can lead you down a primrose path, too.


We all appear to learn differently.

I've set up my newsgroup reader to mark the posts from select
participants like you, Ed and Pete C and Jim Wilkins, etc because
I find that I can generally understand your point effortlessly.
It almost doesn't matter what the subject is.

I find a startling qualitative difference between 'textbook'
presentation (which can be obscure *and* tiresome) and this
informal communication which I find clear and compelling.

It's frustrating because I can't reconcile the tacit goal of
the textbook with that of the newsgroup. They should both
communicate effectively but in a lot of cases I get a sense
that the textbook author is almost gleeful in his precise,
correct and totally useless presentation.

That is fascinating stuff.

--Winston


  #43   Report Post  
Old May 20th 11, 03:47 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On May 20, 9:18*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
..
I've found that I need an intuitive explanation first to provide a
framework to file away the subsequent formulaic ones, which killed me
when I got to Laplace Transforms.

...
A girlfriend's father who taught physics had quit
chemistry because he couldn't imagine the 3 dimensional molecular
structures.


She was a lovely, classy lady who didn't help me concentrate on math
and molecules either.


jsw


You're drifting, Jim. g That's another affliction we share.
Ed Huntress


Leading, not drifting. I had to commit to a major when I applied for
college, before I really knew which science to choose. I might have
switched from chemistry to mechanical or electrical engineering if I
had done better in calculus. The Army put me in electronics where I
stayed. However the chemistry curriculum was very broad and a good
preparation for most anything. For instance I learned how to fudge a
political survey by biasing the selection criteria, like calling
during the day when only unemployed people are home.

In the 1990's at MITRE I took night classes toward an EE degree and
maintained a 4.0, including calculus. The night school teachers were
practical people with day jobs who treated math as a tool, not an
abstract art form.

jsw
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Old May 20th 11, 05:30 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Yes! From decades of self-teaching, I can suggest my own solution: two or
three books, written by different authors, that explain the same thing in
different ways. I open them all at the same time and switch back and
forth.
This was particularly useful to me in learning semiconductor theory many
years ago, but it works for all kinds of subjects. It also helped me a
great
deal with the metallurgy of steel, which often is oversimplified until
you
can't understand what the mechanisms are.

The Web often is even better at providing multiple sources, but, as we
all
know, it can lead you down a primrose path, too.


We all appear to learn differently.

I've set up my newsgroup reader to mark the posts from select
participants like you, Ed and Pete C and Jim Wilkins, etc because
I find that I can generally understand your point effortlessly.
It almost doesn't matter what the subject is.

I find a startling qualitative difference between 'textbook'
presentation (which can be obscure *and* tiresome) and this
informal communication which I find clear and compelling.

It's frustrating because I can't reconcile the tacit goal of
the textbook with that of the newsgroup. They should both
communicate effectively but in a lot of cases I get a sense
that the textbook author is almost gleeful in his precise,
correct and totally useless presentation.

That is fascinating stuff.

--Winston


Yes, it's an interesting subject when you get into it. I edited all of my
wife's term papers when she was working on her master's degree in special
education, and that's a big topic in her line of work. It's hard for many of
us to identify with other modes of learning, but being exposed to a lot of
case histories (and her students) has given me a few surprises.

As for the writing of textbooks, I think it's the result of having
textbooks, particularly specialized ones, written by experts in their fields
who just don't have much writing experience. They tend to be pedantic,
rigorous, and jargon-filled, because they worry about sounding
"professional." Editing scientific papers written by medical doctors, my
eyes often roll back in their sockets.

Writing is like any other skill: practice, practice, practice...

--
Ed Huntress


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Old May 20th 11, 07:35 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On May 20, 11:30*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
I've set up my newsgroup reader to mark the posts from select
participants like you, Ed and Pete C and Jim Wilkins, etc because
I find that I can generally understand your point effortlessly.
It almost doesn't matter what the subject is.


I spend so long editing the initial garbage that I spew for style and
clarity and logical sequence that the session often times out and I
have to copy and paste the text into a new one. That's why my posts
may contain complete non-sequiturs where I missed a major change at
line wrap, which isn't where you see it.

I find a startling qualitative difference between 'textbook'
presentation (which can be obscure *and* tiresome) and this
informal communication which I find clear and compelling.


It's frustrating because I can't reconcile the tacit goal of
the textbook with that of the newsgroup. They should both
communicate effectively but in a lot of cases I get a sense
that the textbook author is almost gleeful in his precise,
correct and totally useless presentation.


I began posting here for informal practice when I was having enormous
difficulty writing technical reports and manuals. The group may
complain but they don't write my review.

That pedantic, rigorous, and jargon-filled style is a valuable insider
shorthand for concepts not easily expressed in standard civilian
English. I just had an argument about Nuclear Magnetic Resonance in
another group and found myself writing that way.

MITRE offered a class on how to write technical Governmentese, which
is similar to Legalese in that some words have specific restricted
meanings. The instructor explained that the writing style of an
organization mirrors its balance between freedom of initiative and
personal responsibility, and the consequences of mistakes. He used a
bank as one extreme and an artists' collective as the other. An
investment prospectus and an art review are the same thing written
under different rules in radically different styles.

jsw


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Old May 20th 11, 10:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

It's hard for many of us to identify with other modes of learning,
but being exposed to a lot of case histories (and her students)
has given me a few surprises.


I'll bet! Where is Art Linkletter when we need him?

As for the writing of textbooks, I think it's the result of having
textbooks, particularly specialized ones, written by experts in their fields
who just don't have much writing experience. They tend to be pedantic,
rigorous, and jargon-filled, because they worry about sounding
"professional." Editing scientific papers written by medical doctors, my
eyes often roll back in their sockets.


Yup. Though in my my experience, mail carriers are about the only
group that have chosen not to 'bombard me with obfuscation'.

I'm sure they could if they wanted to.

Writing is like any other skill: practice, practice, practice...


Yup.

--Winston

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Old May 20th 11, 11:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Jim Wilkins wrote:
On May 20, 11:30 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message
...
I've set up my newsgroup reader to mark the posts from select
participants like you, Ed and Pete C and Jim Wilkins, etc because
I find that I can generally understand your point effortlessly.
It almost doesn't matter what the subject is.


I spend so long editing the initial garbage that I spew


(...)

You've participated in RCM long enough to know what
'garbage' is, Jim. Your posts are exactly the opposite, IMNSHO.

An investment prospectus and an art review are the same thing
written under different rules in radically different styles.


Yes. One is a fantastical work of hyperbole that concludes with
a mean surprise at the end. The other one is an art review.

When we discuss SWMBO's day, she sometimes falls into 'Organizational
Lingo' and I ask her to back up and explain some of the acronyms.

I'm guilty too. I got a look of utter surprise from a nice lady last
week when I mentioned that I was having difficulty with my 'POP client'.
Shame on me.


--Winston
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Old May 21st 11, 02:05 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Winston wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

? It's hard for many of us to identify with other modes of learning,
? but being exposed to a lot of case histories (and her students)
? has given me a few surprises.

I'll bet! Where is Art Linkletter when we need him?



Dead. He died last May 26 of last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Linkletter


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.
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Old May 21st 11, 08:35 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Winston wrote:


(...)

I'll bet! Where is Art Linkletter when we need him?



Dead. He died last May 26 of last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Linkletter


Now *there* is a life well spent.

--Winston
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Old May 21st 11, 09:17 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Winston wrote:


(...)

I'll bet! Where is Art Linkletter when we need him?



Dead. He died last May 26 of last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Linkletter


Now *there* is a life well spent.



A real entertainer, who didn't have to 'work blue'.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.


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