I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold and hoses
and finally it was good enough weather to check out the system. Not
good! First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start on it's own but
a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. The bearings seem
OK so I suspect the capacitor. Next, the compressor won't start, it
just hums for a while then goes quiet then repeats. Hmmmm. The
static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be worth
fixing. At this point I call in a professional, a nephew of a friend
on mine and see what he thinks. I'm a heat baby and like the house at
67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window unit for
that. The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

On Apr 30, 6:24*pm, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:
I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold and hoses
and finally it was good enough weather to check out the system. *Not
good! *First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start on it's own but
a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. *The bearings seem
OK so I suspect the capacitor. *Next, the compressor won't start, it
just hums for a while then goes quiet then repeats. *Hmmmm. *The
static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be worth
fixing. *At this point I call in a professional, a nephew of a friend
on mine and see what he thinks. *I'm a heat baby and like the house at
67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window unit for
that. *The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

It sounds like the Compressor needs a capacitor also.

"Cross-Slide" wrote in message
...

static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.


At 70F, your pressure should be a tad more than 10 lbs higher than
that...and so either you have a bad thermometer or else the refrigerant is
contaminated.

It sounds like the Compressor needs a capacitor also.

Thats a very real possibility.

The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

If using a heat pump in a relatively mild climate, your winter heating bill
will be about 1/3 as high as it was with forced air electric strip furnace.

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:4IWdnYnxocIsICHQnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

"Cross-Slide" wrote in message
...

static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.


At 70F, your pressure should be a tad more than 10 lbs higher than
that...and so either you have a bad thermometer or else the
refrigerant is contaminated.

It sounds like the Compressor needs a capacitor also.

Thats a very real possibility.

The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to
see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

If using a heat pump in a relatively mild climate, your winter
heating bill will be about 1/3 as high as it was with forced air
electric strip furnace.


Holy ****! Can I GET that lucky to just replace caps? I'll test them
tomorrow with the "bounce method" on my VTVM...how many people still
have one of those?.

I don't have a VTVM, but I do try to keep a
swing meter type VOM on hand for moments
like that. It is very possible that the capacitors
are the problem. On heat pumps, there should
be two caps, one for the fan, other for the
compressor.

Window shaker AC use a dual capacitor.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

Holy ****! Can I GET that lucky to just replace
caps? I'll test them tomorrow with the "bounce
method" on my VTVM...how many people still
have one of those?.

Tom Gardner wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:4IWdnYnxocIsICHQnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

"Cross-Slide" wrote in message
...

static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.


At 70F, your pressure should be a tad more than 10 lbs higher than
that...and so either you have a bad thermometer or else the
refrigerant is contaminated.

It sounds like the Compressor needs a capacitor also.

Thats a very real possibility.

The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to
see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

If using a heat pump in a relatively mild climate, your winter
heating bill will be about 1/3 as high as it was with forced air
electric strip furnace.


Holy ****! Can I GET that lucky to just replace caps? I'll test them
tomorrow with the "bounce method" on my VTVM...how many people still
have one of those?.


Time to move into this century:

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-digital-multimeter-98674.html

$39.99

A simple ESR meter is handy, too. It will show you if the capacitor can
actually pass the required current.

You can build a simple one for under a buck:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESR_meter

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Temperature, and sound, too? Neat meter.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
message
m...


Time to move into this century:

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-digital-multimeter-98674.html

$39.99

"Cross-Slide" wrote in message
...

It sounds like the Compressor needs a capacitor also.

Indeed, sometimes they use a common capacitor for fan and compressor.(three
terminals- one common-one compressor-one fan) If you have an old analog ohm
meter.........connect to common to one of the other terminals. The ohm meter
needle should reduce ohms slowly. Reverse the leads of the meter on the same
two terminals should repeat, then try the other two terminals. This not 100%
test but will give you some idea if the capacitor has any capability. If you
have a meter with capacitance test .......that would be even better.
Hopefully the nephew will have some capacitors on the truck. Replacing the
capacitor is the only true test. I have seem some test good and not start a
compressor. Put a new one on and it ran like a charm.
Good luck Lyndell

On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:24:04 -0400, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:

I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold and hoses
and finally it was good enough weather to check out the system. Not
good! First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start on it's own but
a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. The bearings seem
OK so I suspect the capacitor. Next, the compressor won't start, it
just hums for a while then goes quiet then repeats. Hmmmm. The
static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be worth
fixing. At this point I call in a professional, a nephew of a friend
on mine and see what he thinks. I'm a heat baby and like the house at
67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window unit for
that. The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.


You have a business. You of course know this can be ordered from the
distributor for about 1/3 of what the contractor charges. I'd get a
complete matched system and replace everything.

I happen to know a cheap skate that bought one of these, installed it,
and then used an old refrigerator compressor to evacuate the lines.
Then just put in the R22.

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:24:04 -0400, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:

I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold and
hoses
and finally it was good enough weather to check out the system. Not
good! First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start on it's own
but
a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. The bearings seem
OK so I suspect the capacitor. Next, the compressor won't start, it
just hums for a while then goes quiet then repeats. Hmmmm. The
static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be worth
fixing. At this point I call in a professional, a nephew of a
friend
on mine and see what he thinks. I'm a heat baby and like the house
at
67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window unit for
that. The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.


You have a business. You of course know this can be ordered from the
distributor for about 1/3 of what the contractor charges. I'd get a
complete matched system and replace everything.

I happen to know a cheap skate that bought one of these, installed
it,
and then used an old refrigerator compressor to evacuate the lines.
Then just put in the R22.

Karl


I had to buy a new AC unit for the old house four years ago and one of
my employees was an HVAC contractor. And, I sell brushes to "Famous
Supply", a supply house. The whole ball of wax cost me $1k and my guy
did it on the clock. Too bad he's in Texas now and won't be back in
OH for two months...I can't wait that long. I imagine the worst so
anything else will be a wonderful surprise!

I have relative in north western Ohio, what part
of the state are you in? My cousin is in Yellow
Springs, neaer Dayton. Sounds to me like a
working vacation may be in the cards. Another
fellow near there, has gun club membership,
might get to do some recreational target.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

I had to buy a new AC unit for the old house four
years ago and one of my employees was an HVAC
contractor. And, I sell brushes to "Famous Supply",
a supply house. The whole ball of wax cost me $1k
and my guy did it on the clock. Too bad he's in
Texas now and won't be back in OH for two
months...I can't wait that long. I imagine the worst
so anything else will be a wonderful surprise!

I'm on the lake about 25 miles west of Cleveland.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I have relative in north western Ohio, what part
of the state are you in? My cousin is in Yellow
Springs, neaer Dayton. Sounds to me like a
working vacation may be in the cards. Another
fellow near there, has gun club membership,
might get to do some recreational target.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

I had to buy a new AC unit for the old house four
years ago and one of my employees was an HVAC
contractor. And, I sell brushes to "Famous Supply",
a supply house. The whole ball of wax cost me $1k
and my guy did it on the clock. Too bad he's in
Texas now and won't be back in OH for two
months...I can't wait that long. I imagine the worst
so anything else will be a wonderful surprise!

On Sun, 1 May 2011 14:48:53 -0400, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:

I'm on the lake about 25 miles west of Cleveland.

Always remember your floaties, kid.

--
We're all here because we're not all there.

On Sun, 1 May 2011 14:48:53 -0400, "Tom Gardner" w@w wrote:

I'm on the lake about 25 miles west of Cleveland.

I had heard Lake Erie is a great walleye fishery. True? Or did it just
used to be?

Karl

Sounds like I'd drive right past you, on the way to Dayton
area.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
I'm on the lake about 25 miles west of Cleveland.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message
...
I have relative in north western Ohio, what part
of the state are you in? My cousin is in Yellow
Springs, neaer Dayton. Sounds to me like a
working vacation may be in the cards. Another
fellow near there, has gun club membership,
might get to do some recreational target.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...

I had to buy a new AC unit for the old house four
years ago and one of my employees was an HVAC
contractor. And, I sell brushes to "Famous Supply",
a supply house. The whole ball of wax cost me $1k
and my guy did it on the clock. Too bad he's in
Texas now and won't be back in OH for two
months...I can't wait that long. I imagine the worst
so anything else will be a wonderful surprise!

"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message ...
I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold and hoses and finally it was good
enough weather to check out the system. Not good! First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start
on it's own but a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. The bearings seem OK so I
suspect the capacitor. Next, the compressor won't start, it just hums for a while then goes quiet
then repeats. Hmmmm. The static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be worth fixing. At this point I call in
a professional, a nephew of a friend on mine and see what he thinks. I'm a heat baby and like the
house at 67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window unit for that. The house is
all-electric and very well insulated, my largest electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I
don't expect to see huge savings with a new heat pump.



Try a hard start kit.....Paul

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load...3327388.html?6

On 2011-04-30, Tom Gardner w@w wrote:
I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold and hoses
and finally it was good enough weather to check out the system. Not
good! First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start on it's own but
a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. The bearings seem
OK so I suspect the capacitor. Next, the compressor won't start, it
just hums for a while then goes quiet then repeats. Hmmmm. The
static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.

Well ... on my Carrier unit the starting capacitor for the
compressor and the fan share the same housing, and in my case, the
common wire opened, so the fan would start (the compressor provided the
path to ground with the two capacitors in series), but the capacitance
with power applied to the compressor was not sufficient to start it, so
it sat there drawing excess current for while until it overheated, and
then shut off until it cooled down enough for another try. Sounds a lot
like what you have.

So -- replace the capacitor. IIRC, the fan was about 5 uFd, and
the compressor about 55 uFd or something similar.

There is no real reason for the two capacitors to be in the same
housing -- other than convenience in mounting. It was replaced with a
single can which had six capacitors in it -- one of the smallest for the
fan, and all the others in parallel for the compressor.

Once those were replaced, the system ran well again.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be worth
fixing.

Why not? Proably $15.00 to $50.00 for the capacitor, and
nothing else likely to be bad? I *think* that the pressures sound
reasonable for a non running compressor. You will have a better feel
for that when the compressor is running.

Did you even try to add any R-22? Proably not necessary.

At this point I call in a professional, a nephew of a friend
on mine and see what he thinks. I'm a heat baby and like the house at
67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window unit for
that. The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

If he knows what he is doing, he can probably come up with a
replacement capacitor for you.

I'm happy when this room is 80 F or below (lots of computers
running here) and the bedroom is around 75 F.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-30, Tom Gardner w@w wrote:
I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold and
hoses
and finally it was good enough weather to check out the system.
Not
good! First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start on it's own
but
a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. The bearings
seem
OK so I suspect the capacitor. Next, the compressor won't start,
it
just hums for a while then goes quiet then repeats. Hmmmm. The
static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides at 70
degrees F ambient.

Well ... on my Carrier unit the starting capacitor for the
compressor and the fan share the same housing, and in my case, the
common wire opened, so the fan would start (the compressor provided
the
path to ground with the two capacitors in series), but the
capacitance
with power applied to the compressor was not sufficient to start it,
so
it sat there drawing excess current for while until it overheated,
and
then shut off until it cooled down enough for another try. Sounds a
lot
like what you have.

So -- replace the capacitor. IIRC, the fan was about 5 uFd, and
the compressor about 55 uFd or something similar.

There is no real reason for the two capacitors to be in the same
housing -- other than convenience in mounting. It was replaced with
a
single can which had six capacitors in it -- one of the smallest for
the
fan, and all the others in parallel for the compressor.

Once those were replaced, the system ran well again.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be worth
fixing.

Why not? Proably $15.00 to $50.00 for the capacitor, and
nothing else likely to be bad? I *think* that the pressures sound
reasonable for a non running compressor. You will have a better
feel
for that when the compressor is running.

Did you even try to add any R-22? Proably not necessary.

At this point I call in a professional, a nephew of a
friend
on mine and see what he thinks. I'm a heat baby and like the house
at
67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window unit for
that. The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my
largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

If he knows what he is doing, he can probably come up with a
replacement capacitor for you.

I'm happy when this room is 80 F or below (lots of computers
running here) and the bedroom is around 75 F.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703)
938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. |
http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks Don, I feel a bit better now after reading about the caps! I
sure hope that's it.

On 5/1/2011 3:52 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
I feel a bit better now after reading about the caps! I
sure hope that's it.



If the caps are ok also try whacking the compressor with a rubber
mallet, after sitting unused all winter sometimes they need to be shook
loose.

MikeB

On 2011-05-01, BQ340 wrote:
On 5/1/2011 3:52 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
I feel a bit better now after reading about the caps! I
sure hope that's it.



If the caps are ok also try whacking the compressor with a rubber
mallet, after sitting unused all winter sometimes they need to be shook
loose.

I think that he said that it was a heat pump, so it was probably
running through the winter, too.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-05-01, Tom Gardner w@w wrote:

[ ... my stuff snipped to save space ... ]

Thanks Don, I feel a bit better now after reading about the caps! I
sure hope that's it.

I'll bet that it is.

And beware of open commons inside the cap body. I didn't
disconnect everything, so I wound up reading capacitance back through
the compressor motor, so I mis-judged it.

The cap should have looked like this:


0-----------|(---------+----------)|-------------0
|
|
|
---

But really was like this:

0-----------|(---------+----------)|-------------0
|

|
---
-

Note the broken wire to the common ground.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...



I *think* that the pressures sound
reasonable for a non running compressor.


Your static pressure is dependant upon temperature--it can be almost empty
but as long as there is still a tiny amount of liquid remaining, the
pressure will not drop.


You will have a better feel
for that when the compressor is running.


If it is low, then in heat mode the outdoor unit will probably ice up rather
quickly even under a fairly low humidity condition.....or it will trip the
low pressure safety switch provided there is one installed.

Did you even try to add any R-22? Proably not necessary.

There is probably a charging chart glued to the inside of one of the
condensor access panels.

As to the "push fan to start", most often bad run cap.

Compressor doing the hum-click means either bad run cap, or
bad compresssor. Of course, the cap is cheaper and easier.
It can also be bad power feed, corrosion on a terminal.
Power off, and clean the various connections that feed 220
VAC to the compressor.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...
I was able to get a cylinder of R-22 and the right manifold
and hoses
and finally it was good enough weather to check out the
system. Not
good! First, the fan on the condenser wouldn't start on
it's own but
a little push with a screwdriver got it spinning. The
bearings seem
OK so I suspect the capacitor. Next, the compressor won't
start, it
just hums for a while then goes quiet then repeats. Hmmmm.
The
static pressure on the refrigerant is 110 psi on both sides
at 70
degrees F ambient.

So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane and it won't be
worth
fixing. At this point I call in a professional, a nephew of
a friend
on mine and see what he thinks. I'm a heat baby and like
the house at
67 and my bedroom at 60 or less...I have a modified window
unit for
that. The house is all-electric and very well insulated, my
largest
electric bills are $200/mo for everything so I don't expect
to see
huge savings with a new heat pump.

Have you ever had the outdoor unit professionally
cleaned? I have a friend in Tennesse, while I was at
his place, I cleaned his heat pump. The running
amperage went down about an amp. Saved him a
bit of money, elctric wise. His was also Trane.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Gardner" w@w wrote in message
...


So, I assume the worst on this 15 yo Trane
and it won't be worth fixing.