On 5/2/2011 11:22 AM, "__ Bøb __" wrote:

I'll just assume that all the other kooks out there agree with Gummer
that the document Obama put out isn't valid. So to them Obama still was
born somewhere else. Okay, I accept that premise. But that means you
people who deny Obama was born in Hawaii have to tell us where he came
from. But your burden is that you have to supply proof that is better
than what you are rejecting from Obama's side.

You have to come up with proof beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly where
and when Obama was born. We want proof that is beyond question. But if
you can't come up with evidence that shows where and when Obama was
really born you have to stop questioning his story about being born in
Hawaii. If you can't come up with better evidence, and unequivocal proof
Obama was born somewhere else then you have to accept what he says as
true.

Personally, I don't think you can prove Obama was born anywhere but
Hawaii, at least not according to the level of scrutiny you use on
Obama's evidence. And I don't think you can keep quiet when you can't
prove Obama was born somewhere else. But go ahead and try. We'll be
waiting for your "proof".


[First of all, the birth certificate that the White House released lists
Obama's birth as August 4, 1961. It also lists Barack Hussein Obama as
his father. No big deal, right? At the time of Obama's birth, it also
shows that his father is aged 25 years old, and that Obama's father was
born in " Kenya , East Africa ". This wouldn't seem like anything of
concern, except the fact that Kenya did not even exist until 1963, two
whole years after Obama's birth, and 27 years after his father's birth.
How could have Obama's father have been born in a country that did not
yet exist? Up and until Kenya was formed in 1963, it was known as the
"British East Africa Protectorate". But, this is not the only thing that
I found that just does not jive.

The other item that I looked into was the hospital that Obama was born
in. On the birth certificate released by the White House, the listed
place of birth is "Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital". This
cannot be, because the hospital(s) in question in 1961 were called
"KauiKeolani Children's Hospital" and "Kapi'olani Maternity Home",
respectively. The name did not change to Kapi'olani Maternity &
Gynecological Hospital until 1978, when these two hospitals merged. How
can this particular name of the hospital be on a birth certificate dated
1961 if this name had not yet been applied to it until 1978?]



You can keep looking into every single little thing that you think is
wrong with the documents that came from the White House. But that
doesn't help you at all when it comes to proving that Obama came from
somewhere else.

You have to come up with solid evidence that proves exactly where Obama
was born. You are saying it wasn't Hawaii. So lets see your evidence of
where it really took place.

See, that's your problem. You can find fault with the documents
presented by the White House all day long. But you can find nothing that
shows Obama was really born anywhere else. Until you can do that you're
on a fools errand. Waste as much time as you want on the "official
documents". But none of that matters at all if you can't prove he came
from somewhere else.

So please, let us know where he was born. All we expect for proof is a
little better standard than you are asking from Obama. So get to it. We
want to know where Obama was born too. You people say it wasn't Hawaii.
Okay, now prove to us where it was.

Hawke

On 2011-05-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

Doug Miller wrote:

Show me where the Constitution says a candidate for President needs to
produce his birth certificate. That's what you claimed, after all. Let's
see the proof.

Well, a real birth certificate is pretty much good enough proof that he's
a natural born citizen, no?

Thanks,
Rich

Doug Miller wrote:

Yes, we know that. But *you* said that the *birth certificate* is a
requirement -- and it's not.

Please show us in exactly which post anyone ever said that specifically.

Thanks,
Rich

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Rich Grise

I think "Natural born Citizen" pretty much covers that.

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any
of his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and
1931. Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890.
Are/were they not natural born citizens?

Sure they are, but are they running for the office of the most powerful man
in the world?

Thanks,
Rich

Doug Miller wrote:

"Treason against the United States shall consists solely of levying war
against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and
comfort."

I'd think the amusement of watching Big Brother skin-searching Aunt Tillie
and molesting six-year old girls probably gives them a lot of aid and
comfort.

And, can you say, "war on drugs?"

Thanks,
Rich

"Ignoramus15384" wrote in message
...
On 2011-05-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

You know, the addled welfare queen would be a lot more tolerable if it
wasn't for those lines, like the one above, "Can you possibly be that
stupid?"

But bluster is a compensation for failure, or fear of failure, and is an
element of the psychology of lying. Repeated failure and threats to one's
self-image can produce a large spectrum of behaviors; a full-throttle,
full-time bluster suggests a deep-seated, long-running problem. Every so
often I think that the guy actually is close to the edge, and I back off.
It's not easy dealing with such obnoxious behavior but I don't want to make
him worse. So I'm going to back off again. Maybe he ought to just be
plonked. I'm sure we can learn all we need about clapped-out machines
without him.

Good luck.

--
Ed Huntress

On 5/1/2011 4:01 PM, Ignoramus15384 wrote:
On 2011-05-01, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

The debate is stupid. His mother was a US citizen, therefore her child,
The Future president, Mr. Barack Obama is a citizen. If he had been
born on Mars he would still be a US citizen. Just as John McCain (born
in Panama) is a US citizen, and eminently qualified to be president in
2000, but loosing his faculties and choosing dingbats as his running
mate in 2008.

On Sun, 01 May 2011 15:01:16 -0500, Ignoramus15384
wrote:

On 2011-05-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

Prove it Iggy. Dave.

If you are claiming that he is a citizen, natural born, and bogus birth
certs dont count...and we do indeed need proof..its up to you to PROVE
IT that he is allowed to be President of the USA.

Afterall..the contention of both of you smart guys is that there is no
requirement for a birth cert to be involved..so ****ing PROVE IT that he
is legally our president.

Failure to do so will simply make both of you look like buffoons.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

Show me where the Constitution says a candidate for President needs to
produce his birth certificate. That's what you claimed, after all. Let's
see the proof.

Well, a real birth certificate is pretty much good enough proof that he's
a natural born citizen, no?

Thanks,
Rich

Actually, he doesn't need it in most states, unless someone challenges his
certification and goes through a challenge procedure. And that only applies
to the states' procedures for appearing on a ballot. Write-ins could
conceivably get through the process without anyone ever checking them out.
Look up "Nominating papers" or "Nominating petitions" in the state of your
choice.

In most states, the political parties certify a candidate's eligibility.
This has been very loosely handled in most election years -- filing the
papers is enough for most state election commissions. Just grabbing one
example at random, Kentucky says a candidate is qualified if 20 other states
say he's qualified. g

Gunner's statement is complete nonsense. Birth records aren't "published."
The Constitution says nothing about who or how a candidate is to be
certified. Since elections for president are actually done by the Electoral
College, you don't even vote for a president, anyway, so voting procedures
generally say nothing about it except that the candidate must sign a paper
saying he's qualified, in order to appear on that state's ballot.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 09:24:02 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:25:33 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 01:58:45 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:

J. D. Slocomb wrote:

Apparently neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have enough sense
to pound sand in a rat hole and we are presently governed by the
smartest guy in the whole bunch..... after all he must have slickered
everyone.

That's a reassuring way to look at it.

But I think he wasn't so smart or he would have had this released long, long
ago.

What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?



Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

You are saying that every U.S. President has published his birth
certificate and his school records? If so, where? Is a reference
available?

If this is true I would like to see a copy of President Washington's
birth certificate please. And his school records.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 20:22:25 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:37:43 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Blink blink...blink....Doug..you are not THAT stupid...are you?

Doug is completely right and you are completely wrong. The
constitution does not require or mention birth certificates to be a president.

i
Heads up boys..it mentions Natural Born Citizen...


Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth
the eligibility requirements for serving as President of the United
States:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be
eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of
thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United
States.

The grandfather provision of the "natural born Citizen" clause provided
an exception to the "natural born" requirement for those persons who
were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. (The
first several Presidents prior to Martin van Buren, as well as potential
Presidential candidates, were born as British subjects in British
America before the American Revolution and this grandfather clause would
cover them.)[1]

And a lot of "natural born Citizens" had no birth certificates, as
they were born at home. Some of them may even still be alive, for all
I know. I wonder how many hippie kids had no birth certificate
issued, as Mom & Dad were hippies and didn't want anything to do with
"The Man"?

I have known people who in order to get a "birth certificate" had to
get baptismal records and have them certified as to a record of birth.
In my own case when I entered the service I was asked for a birth
certificate and had to go to the Town Clerk for mine. He asked me for
my birth date and looked in a big book. , "nobody here with your name,
here look" and I found the official record of my birth "Baby boy
Slocomb" it said, right there in black and white. I told the Town
Clerk that "this is me!" so he scratched out the "baby boy" and
entered my name and then typed out a birth certificate and stamped it
and I joined the Air force.

One of my kids has an official Louisiana birth certificate which is a
photograph of the document held in the State Capital, another got a
real paper certificate from the state of Ohio and I disremember where
the other one's is.

The point is that they are all not the same and making an assessment
of "it don't look right" isn't really very meaningful.

Besides.... he is the President so muttering and complaining isn't
going to do any good.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 May 2011 15:01:16 -0500, Ignoramus15384
wrote:

On 2011-05-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

Prove it Iggy. Dave.

If you are claiming that he is a citizen, natural born, and bogus birth
certs dont count...and we do indeed need proof..its up to you to PROVE
IT that he is allowed to be President of the USA.

Afterall..the contention of both of you smart guys is that there is no
requirement for a birth cert to be involved..so ****ing PROVE IT that he
is legally our president.

Failure to do so will simply make both of you look like buffoons.

Gunner

The state of Hawaii certified his birth, a joint session of Congress
confirmed his election, and the courts have found against the challenges.
The Supreme Court has refused cert.

That's the end of the legal line. He's legally our president. Your
skepticism has nothing to do with it, any more than your opinion about the
findings of a jury means anything.

--
Ed Huntress

Doug Miller wrote:

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any of
his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and 1931.
Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890. Are/were
they not natural born citizens?


Are you claiming that their birth wasn't recorded by the county they
were born in? My dad was born on a farm in Kentucky in the '30s, but he
was able to get a birth certificate from the state since the information
was in their records.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Well my Dad has a birth certificate that indicates he was
born in the county. The courthouse burned down and records lost.
He is 90 this year but wasn't the last farm baby to live long.

One glaring thing on the fake document is the paper. Look at the
safety paper as it maintains the exact pattern flowing off the
document and also as the fake document looks like it is out of
a book - the paper flows continuously to the left around the fold
and continues onward.

What this tells me is the 'black lettering and blobs' are superimposed
upon a background of safety paper and the picture of a rolled edge
on the left.

And normally there isn't just one name per page. There are far to many
people entered on a daily basis to be one per page.

Martin

On 5/1/2011 6:25 PM, J. D. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 20:22:25 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner on Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:37:43 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Blink blink...blink....Doug..you are not THAT stupid...are you?

Doug is completely right and you are completely wrong. The
constitution does not require or mention birth certificates to be a president.

i
Heads up boys..it mentions Natural Born Citizen...


Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth
the eligibility requirements for serving as President of the United
States:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be
eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of
thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United
States.

The grandfather provision of the "natural born Citizen" clause provided
an exception to the "natural born" requirement for those persons who
were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. (The
first several Presidents prior to Martin van Buren, as well as potential
Presidential candidates, were born as British subjects in British
America before the American Revolution and this grandfather clause would
cover them.)[1]

And a lot of "natural born Citizens" had no birth certificates, as
they were born at home. Some of them may even still be alive, for all
I know. I wonder how many hippie kids had no birth certificate
issued, as Mom& Dad were hippies and didn't want anything to do with
"The Man"?

I have known people who in order to get a "birth certificate" had to
get baptismal records and have them certified as to a record of birth.
In my own case when I entered the service I was asked for a birth
certificate and had to go to the Town Clerk for mine. He asked me for
my birth date and looked in a big book. , "nobody here with your name,
here look" and I found the official record of my birth "Baby boy
Slocomb" it said, right there in black and white. I told the Town
Clerk that "this is me!" so he scratched out the "baby boy" and
entered my name and then typed out a birth certificate and stamped it
and I joined the Air force.

One of my kids has an official Louisiana birth certificate which is a
photograph of the document held in the State Capital, another got a
real paper certificate from the state of Ohio and I disremember where
the other one's is.

The point is that they are all not the same and making an assessment
of "it don't look right" isn't really very meaningful.

Besides.... he is the President so muttering and complaining isn't
going to do any good.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:09:14 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:24:09 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:

What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural...Citizen_Clause

Which doesn't say *anything* about needing to produce a birth certificate.

Now I know someone didnt stay awake through Gov 101....

Apparently, that person was you, because I'm clearly better informed on the
subject than you are. Now produce a cite for your claim that a candidate needs

to produce his birth certificate, or STFU.

Doug..how do you PROVE you meet the criteria? Simply saying you do?

Thats hardly valid. Far too many crooks and unscrupulous individuals who
want a piece of power..or their nose in the public cookie jar would lie
their asses off to get in to power.

Quit changing the subject. You said that a birth certificate is required for
candidates for president. I challenged you to provide proof. Of course you
can't, because that isn't true. So you're trying to change the subject.

So why are you so upset that one has to prove one is a natural born
citizen to be president..in one valid form or another? The birth cert
being the easiest and fastest method out there?

I'm not upset about anything. I'm just calling you out for making a false
statement.

If I was going to be upset about anything, I'd be upset that you *don't* have
to prove you're a natural-born citizen. I think candidates *should* have to
prove that -- but they don't. And you claimed that they do.

Or do you think that having people swear you were natural born is good
enough? If Obama got say...Saul Alinksky and maybe Fidel Castro to
swear he was born inside the USA....

And why are you so testy? The question is very much out there..hell...a
lot of questions are very much out there..and given the track record of
te Obamassiah on this matter...they had best be answered to everyones
satisfaction..or they will indeed remain out there.

Say...you didnt...didnt vote for the Obamassiah...did you ?

I voted for McCain.

Say it aint so.....


Gunner

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:10:24 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:33:42 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
wrote:
[attribution dropped]
What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States,
at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the
Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office
who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been
fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

-- Constitution of the United States, Article II, section I, paragraph
5.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

No, that doesn't help at all, because it doesn't say anything about birth
certificates.


Blink blink...blink....Doug..you are not THAT stupid...are you?

Really?

Show me where the Constitution says a candidate for President needs to produce

his birth certificate. That's what you claimed, after all. Let's see the
proof.

as I stated in my previous post of a moment ago..the Birth cert is the
quickest and fastest way of proof.

That's not the point. You claimed that candidates are required to provide
their birth certificates.

That's not true.

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

I don't have to prove it, you idiot. He already did.

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:19:53 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
wrote:
[attribution dropped]
What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible
to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five
Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

-- Constitution of the United States, Article II, section I, paragraph
5.

No, that doesn't help at all, because it doesn't say anything about birth
certificates.

I think "Natural born Citizen" pretty much covers that.

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any of
his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and 1931.
Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890. Are/were
they not natural born citizens?

Any of them try to become President? If not..the matter remains moot.

It doesn't matter whether they did or not: your insane fantasies
notwithstanding, the Constitution does not require a birth certificate or any
other form of proof.

In article , Rich Grise wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Show me where the Constitution says a candidate for President needs to
produce his birth certificate. That's what you claimed, after all. Let's
see the proof.

Well, a real birth certificate is pretty much good enough proof that he's
a natural born citizen, no?

You're missing the point rather badly, I'm afraid. Gummer claimed that
candidates are required to provide their birth certificates.

That simply isn't true.

In article , Rich Grise wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Yes, we know that. But *you* said that the *birth certificate* is a
requirement -- and it's not.

Please show us in exactly which post anyone ever said that specifically.

It was in the part that you snipped.

In article , Rich Grise wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Rich Grise

I think "Natural born Citizen" pretty much covers that.

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any
of his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and
1931. Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890.
Are/were they not natural born citizens?

Sure they are, but are they running for the office of the most powerful man
in the world?

Doesn't matter. You tried to make an equivalence between being a natural born
citizen, and having a birth certificate that proves it -- which Obama does.
Unlike my father, uncles, and grandfather.

In article , Rich Grise wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

"Treason against the United States shall consists solely of levying war
against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and
comfort."

I'd think the amusement of watching Big Brother skin-searching Aunt Tillie
and molesting six-year old girls probably gives them a lot of aid and
comfort.

And, can you say, "war on drugs?"

If the war on drugs is sufficient evidence of "treason" then you'd better be
prepared to prosecute every President, member of Congress, and SCOTUS justice
in the last ninety years.

Get a grip. Your contact with reality appears increasingly tenuous with every
post you write.

In article , "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any of
his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and 1931.
Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890. Are/were
they not natural born citizens?


Are you claiming that their birth wasn't recorded by the county they
were born in?

That's quite possible, maybe even likely: my grandparents belonged to a
religious sect that kept pretty much to themselves, avoiding contact with
secular authority as much as possible.

On 2011-05-01, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus15384" wrote in message
...
On 2011-05-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

You know, the addled welfare queen would be a lot more tolerable if it
wasn't for those lines, like the one above, "Can you possibly be that
stupid?"

But bluster is a compensation for failure, or fear of failure, and is an
element of the psychology of lying. Repeated failure and threats to one's
self-image can produce a large spectrum of behaviors; a full-throttle,
full-time bluster suggests a deep-seated, long-running problem. Every so
often I think that the guy actually is close to the edge, and I back off.
It's not easy dealing with such obnoxious behavior but I don't want to make
him worse. So I'm going to back off again. Maybe he ought to just be
plonked. I'm sure we can learn all we need about clapped-out machines
without him.


I do not have your psychoanalitic abilities, but I would say, that it
is the Gunner style behavior that made me mistrust the Republican
party. Swiftboating, the fake "In invented the Internet" quote etc. He
is a fun guy to talk about metal related things, but his escapades
make me think less of Republicans, not more.

i

On 2011-05-02, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:09:14 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:24:09 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:

What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural...Citizen_Clause

Which doesn't say *anything* about needing to produce a birth certificate.

Now I know someone didnt stay awake through Gov 101....

Apparently, that person was you, because I'm clearly better informed on the
subject than you are. Now produce a cite for your claim that a candidate needs

to produce his birth certificate, or STFU.

Doug..how do you PROVE you meet the criteria? Simply saying you do?

Thats hardly valid. Far too many crooks and unscrupulous individuals who
want a piece of power..or their nose in the public cookie jar would lie
their asses off to get in to power.

Quit changing the subject. You said that a birth certificate is required for
candidates for president. I challenged you to provide proof. Of course you
can't, because that isn't true. So you're trying to change the subject.

Maybe not everyone has a birth certificate, but surely anyone who was
discharged from the military, should have a set of discharge papers?

So why are you so upset that one has to prove one is a natural born
citizen to be president..in one valid form or another? The birth cert
being the easiest and fastest method out there?

I'm not upset about anything. I'm just calling you out for making a false
statement.

If I was going to be upset about anything, I'd be upset that you *don't* have
to prove you're a natural-born citizen. I think candidates *should* have to
prove that -- but they don't. And you claimed that they do.

Or do you think that having people swear you were natural born is good
enough? If Obama got say...Saul Alinksky and maybe Fidel Castro to
swear he was born inside the USA....

And why are you so testy? The question is very much out there..hell...a
lot of questions are very much out there..and given the track record of
te Obamassiah on this matter...they had best be answered to everyones
satisfaction..or they will indeed remain out there.

Say...you didnt...didnt vote for the Obamassiah...did you ?

I voted for McCain.

Say it aint so.....


Gunner

"Ignoramus15384" wrote in message
...
On 2011-05-02, Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:09:14 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:24:09 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:

What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural...Citizen_Clause

Which doesn't say *anything* about needing to produce a birth
certificate.

Now I know someone didnt stay awake through Gov 101....

Apparently, that person was you, because I'm clearly better informed on
the
subject than you are. Now produce a cite for your claim that a candidate
needs

to produce his birth certificate, or STFU.

Doug..how do you PROVE you meet the criteria? Simply saying you do?

Thats hardly valid. Far too many crooks and unscrupulous individuals who
want a piece of power..or their nose in the public cookie jar would lie
their asses off to get in to power.

Quit changing the subject. You said that a birth certificate is required
for
candidates for president. I challenged you to provide proof. Of course
you
can't, because that isn't true. So you're trying to change the subject.

Maybe not everyone has a birth certificate, but surely anyone who was
discharged from the military, should have a set of discharge papers?


It wouldn't help, Iggy. Remember that Gunner enlisted with a stolen
identity, for example.

--
Ed Huntress


So why are you so upset that one has to prove one is a natural born
citizen to be president..in one valid form or another? The birth cert
being the easiest and fastest method out there?

I'm not upset about anything. I'm just calling you out for making a false
statement.

If I was going to be upset about anything, I'd be upset that you *don't*
have
to prove you're a natural-born citizen. I think candidates *should* have
to
prove that -- but they don't. And you claimed that they do.

Or do you think that having people swear you were natural born is good
enough? If Obama got say...Saul Alinksky and maybe Fidel Castro to
swear he was born inside the USA....

And why are you so testy? The question is very much out there..hell...a
lot of questions are very much out there..and given the track record of
te Obamassiah on this matter...they had best be answered to everyones
satisfaction..or they will indeed remain out there.

Say...you didnt...didnt vote for the Obamassiah...did you ?

I voted for McCain.

Say it aint so.....


Gunner

On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:33:08 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:19:53 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
wrote:
[attribution dropped]
What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible
to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five
Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

-- Constitution of the United States, Article II, section I, paragraph
5.

No, that doesn't help at all, because it doesn't say anything about birth
certificates.

I think "Natural born Citizen" pretty much covers that.

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any of
his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and 1931.
Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890. Are/were
they not natural born citizens?

Any of them try to become President? If not..the matter remains moot.

It doesn't matter whether they did or not: your insane fantasies
notwithstanding, the Constitution does not require a birth certificate or any
other form of proof.

Yes..it requires some form of proof.

Show me where it doesnt..how it couldnt?

You are aware..that even the Democratic Party of Hawaii in 2008, refused
to certify him for running for president, right?

http://www.evilconservativeonline.co...efused-to.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXFwqUi3zR0

2008: Hawaii Dems refused to certify Obama eligibility for the Pr...
The State Democratic Party of Hawaii would not certify in 2008 that
Obama was constitutionally and legally eligible for the Office of
President that he was running for which was the normal procedure by the
State Democratic Party of Hawaii in all the prior election cycles. See
the State Democratic Party of Hawaii certification of nomination
forms[embedded below] for the Presidential election years of 2008 for
Obama, 2004 for Kerry, and 2000 for Gore.

See this summarizing quote from the Butterdezillion blog post of 10 Sep
2010:

"It's been removed from the web, but shortly after CFP published their
original article about the Certificates of Nomination, somebody claiming
to represent the DNC stated on a discussion board that the DNC relies on
the state parties to verify Constitutional eligibility for candidates,
so the oath by Pelosi and Germond would just confirm that the state
democratic parties had confirmed the Constitutional eligibility of the
candidates.


But this is where the argument totally falls apart, because the Hawaii
Democratic Party actually ignored their protocols in 2008 in order to
specifically NOT certify Obama's eligibility as they had done for
candidates in the past. IOW, if Pelosi based her decision to certify on
whether the state party would confirm eligibility, then she had a duty
to NOT certify Obama's eligibility, because the democratic party of the
state supposedly holding Obama's birth certificate REFUSED TO CERTIFY
Obama's eligibility."
Source: http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/09

What did the State Democratic Party officials in Hawaii know about Obama
and his now hidden and sealed 1961 original typed long form birth
registration documents in Hawaii, and subsequent amendments to same,
which would cause them to change their normal certification of
nomination procedures for presidential candidates?

Is this possibly more evidence in Hawaii and elsewhere of possible
misprision of a felony?

So Doug...someone is going to give you $1 million dollars but only with
proof its actually you.

How are you going to do that? Or are you going to give up the $1
million dollars?

Inquiring minds really want to know.

Im also curious Doug..what leads you to state such a ridiculous a
statement?

Voted for him...didnt you...?

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Sun, 01 May 2011 19:54:37 -0500, Ignoramus15384
wrote:

On 2011-05-01, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus15384" wrote in message
...
On 2011-05-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

You know, the addled welfare queen would be a lot more tolerable if it
wasn't for those lines, like the one above, "Can you possibly be that
stupid?"

But bluster is a compensation for failure, or fear of failure, and is an
element of the psychology of lying. Repeated failure and threats to one's
self-image can produce a large spectrum of behaviors; a full-throttle,
full-time bluster suggests a deep-seated, long-running problem. Every so
often I think that the guy actually is close to the edge, and I back off.
It's not easy dealing with such obnoxious behavior but I don't want to make
him worse. So I'm going to back off again. Maybe he ought to just be
plonked. I'm sure we can learn all we need about clapped-out machines
without him.


I do not have your psychoanalitic abilities, but I would say, that it
is the Gunner style behavior that made me mistrust the Republican
party. Swiftboating, the fake "In invented the Internet" quote etc. He
is a fun guy to talk about metal related things, but his escapades
make me think less of Republicans, not more.

i

Still waiting for Proof that Obama was actually born in Hawaii Iggy.

Perhaps Eddy can get it for you?

Laugh laugh laugh...snicker..chortle...laugh laugh laugh!!

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:34:07 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Show me where the Constitution says a candidate for President needs to
produce his birth certificate. That's what you claimed, after all. Let's
see the proof.

Well, a real birth certificate is pretty much good enough proof that he's
a natural born citizen, no?

You're missing the point rather badly, I'm afraid. Gummer claimed that
candidates are required to provide their birth certificates.

That simply isn't true.

Doug..they are required to prove where they were born. So far..all we
have from the Obamassiah..is apparently bogus documentation.

Please..if you would be so kind..prove that the Obamassiah is a natural
born citizen.

Since you dont want to use the birth cert..lets see how you are going to
do it.

Ready...set...go!

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:36:29 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Rich Grise

I think "Natural born Citizen" pretty much covers that.

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any
of his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and
1931. Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890.
Are/were they not natural born citizens?

Sure they are, but are they running for the office of the most powerful man
in the world?

Doesn't matter. You tried to make an equivalence between being a natural born
citizen, and having a birth certificate that proves it -- which Obama does.

Actually..no..he doesnt. So far..it..both of them..appear to be
fraudulant. And he spent $2 million dollars to date to keep it from
being shown.

Unlike my father, uncles, and grandfather.

So they couldnt have gotten a birth cert from the courts on a coupld
sworn affidavids?

Really?

Cites!!

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Mon, 02 May 2011 06:25:01 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 20:22:25 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:37:43 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Blink blink...blink....Doug..you are not THAT stupid...are you?

Doug is completely right and you are completely wrong. The
constitution does not require or mention birth certificates to be a president.

i
Heads up boys..it mentions Natural Born Citizen...


Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth
the eligibility requirements for serving as President of the United
States:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be
eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of
thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United
States.

The grandfather provision of the "natural born Citizen" clause provided
an exception to the "natural born" requirement for those persons who
were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. (The
first several Presidents prior to Martin van Buren, as well as potential
Presidential candidates, were born as British subjects in British
America before the American Revolution and this grandfather clause would
cover them.)[1]

And a lot of "natural born Citizens" had no birth certificates, as
they were born at home. Some of them may even still be alive, for all
I know. I wonder how many hippie kids had no birth certificate
issued, as Mom & Dad were hippies and didn't want anything to do with
"The Man"?

I have known people who in order to get a "birth certificate" had to
get baptismal records and have them certified as to a record of birth.
In my own case when I entered the service I was asked for a birth
certificate and had to go to the Town Clerk for mine. He asked me for
my birth date and looked in a big book. , "nobody here with your name,
here look" and I found the official record of my birth "Baby boy
Slocomb" it said, right there in black and white. I told the Town
Clerk that "this is me!" so he scratched out the "baby boy" and
entered my name and then typed out a birth certificate and stamped it
and I joined the Air force.

One of my kids has an official Louisiana birth certificate which is a
photograph of the document held in the State Capital, another got a
real paper certificate from the state of Ohio and I disremember where
the other one's is.

The point is that they are all not the same and making an assessment
of "it don't look right" isn't really very meaningful.

Besides.... he is the President so muttering and complaining isn't
going to do any good.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)



Because a fraud artist has the money..no one can go after him?

Really???

Fascinating

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

Gunner Asch wrote:


Please..if you would be so kind..prove that the Obamassiah is a natural
born citizen.

Since you dont want to use the birth cert..lets see how you are going to
do it.


You could ask him where he was born

That seemed to work OK
for the other 43 presidents

On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:31:46 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

I don't have to prove it, you idiot. He already did.

With an apparently fraudulant document?

Do try harder Doug.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

In article , Ignoramus15384 wrote:
On 2011-05-02, Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:09:14 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:24:09 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:

What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural...Citizen_Clause

Which doesn't say *anything* about needing to produce a birth certificate.

Now I know someone didnt stay awake through Gov 101....

Apparently, that person was you, because I'm clearly better informed on the
subject than you are. Now produce a cite for your claim that a candidate
needs

to produce his birth certificate, or STFU.

Doug..how do you PROVE you meet the criteria? Simply saying you do?

Thats hardly valid. Far too many crooks and unscrupulous individuals who
want a piece of power..or their nose in the public cookie jar would lie
their asses off to get in to power.

Quit changing the subject. You said that a birth certificate is required for
candidates for president. I challenged you to provide proof. Of course you
can't, because that isn't true. So you're trying to change the subject.

Maybe not everyone has a birth certificate, but surely anyone who was
discharged from the military, should have a set of discharge papers?

Changing the subject AGAIN.

You claimed that producing a birth certificate was required. I asked you for
proof.

You can't provide it, and you know it. So you keep changing the subject.

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:33:08 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:19:53 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
wrote:
[attribution dropped]
What other President has published his birth certificate? If the
answer is "none" then why should the present incumbent?

Every one of them has. Along with their school records (all of which
seem to be missing from the Obamassiah)

Proving the birth certificate to meet the qualifications is a
Requirement.

Requirement of what? Got a cite for that?

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible
to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five
Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

-- Constitution of the United States, Article II, section I, paragraph
5.

No, that doesn't help at all, because it doesn't say anything about birth
certificates.

I think "Natural born Citizen" pretty much covers that.

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any of

his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and
1931.
Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890. Are/were

they not natural born citizens?

Any of them try to become President? If not..the matter remains moot.

It doesn't matter whether they did or not: your insane fantasies
notwithstanding, the Constitution does not require a birth certificate or any
other form of proof.

Yes..it requires some form of proof.

Where? Show me.

Show me where it doesnt..how it couldnt?

Right he
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...stitution.html

You are aware..that even the Democratic Party of Hawaii in 2008, refused
to certify him for running for president, right?

Quit changing the subject. You claimed that the birth certificate is required.
OK, prove it. Or admit that you were lying, or had no idea what you were
talking about. Or STFU.

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:34:07 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Show me where the Constitution says a candidate for President needs to
produce his birth certificate. That's what you claimed, after all. Let's
see the proof.

Well, a real birth certificate is pretty much good enough proof that he's
a natural born citizen, no?

You're missing the point rather badly, I'm afraid. Gummer claimed that
candidates are required to provide their birth certificates.

That simply isn't true.

Doug..they are required to prove where they were born.

That's not true. If you claim it is, prove it, or STFU.

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:36:29 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Rich Grise

I think "Natural born Citizen" pretty much covers that.

No, it doesn't. My father doesn't have one, AFAIK, and neither do/did any
of his brothers -- all born at home in rural Pennsylvania between 1913 and
1931. Neither did his father, born at home in rural Pennsylvania in 1890.
Are/were they not natural born citizens?

Sure they are, but are they running for the office of the most powerful man
in the world?

Doesn't matter. You tried to make an equivalence between being a natural born
citizen, and having a birth certificate that proves it -- which Obama does.

Actually..no..he doesnt. So far..it..both of them..appear to be
fraudulant.

Are you blind, or insane, or just stupid?

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 02 May 2011 00:31:46 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:


Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.


To cut to the chase..prove it.

I don't have to prove it, you idiot. He already did.

With an apparently fraudulant document?

No, with an apparently authentic document.

Do try harder Doug.

Do try to keep up, Gummer.

On May 1, 4:55*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 15:01:16 -0500, Ignoramus15384





wrote:
On 2011-05-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:32 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

Can you possibly be that stupid? He was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a U.S.
state, and was at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural-born
citizen.

To cut to the chase..prove it.

And there is no need to post (2) evidently fraudulant documents in
support of your case. Thats already been tried.

Prove it.

What are you asking him to do, get originals?

The documents are not fraudulent. The fraud here is you.

i

Prove it Iggy. Dave.

If you are claiming that he is a citizen, natural born, and bogus birth
certs dont count...and we do indeed need proof..its up to you to PROVE
IT that he is allowed to be President of the USA.

Afterall..the contention of both of you smart guys is that there is no
requirement for a birth cert to be involved..so ****ing PROVE IT that he
is legally our president.

Failure to do so will simply make both of you look like buffoons.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " *Jonah Goldberg (modified)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

While Gummer already looks like an ass.

Laugh;;laugh;;;laugh..

TMT