This is about putting a gear motor on the axis.

I am very puzzled.

I have this servo gear motor mounted on the knee. It is a 65V motor,
4.4 amp continuous and 26 amp maximum. 15:1 gear reducer.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...ntrol-to-Knee/

It works fine and if I apply power to it from a large battery charger,
it goes up and down very well.

The next thing I did is I connected it to a A-M-C 30A8 drive, the same
kind as what I have on all other axes.

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/A-M-C/30A8-Datasheet.pdf

This servo drive gets 72V DC power from the same DC power supply as
all other drives.

I have NOT connected this drive to EMC2 at all, and I send it a analog
signal from just a little DC power supply.

I tried torque mode and velocity mode.

It behaves VERY weirdly. If I tell it to move the knee down, it moves
it a little (think 0.5 inch), and then stops and the knee actually
comes back up (like by 0.1 inch)!

It does not move it up by more than 0.1 inch and does not come back,
as in the opposite example.

I am struggling to find an explanation.

The only one that I can come up with about this going down behavior,
is that perhaps the pneumatics of the pneumatic knee support is
messing me up.

Or, perhaps, this is a bad servo drive.

I am at a big loss, any ideas would be most welcomed.

i

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:09:48 -0600, Ignoramus28206
wrote:

This is about putting a gear motor on the axis.

I am very puzzled.

I have this servo gear motor mounted on the knee. It is a 65V motor,
4.4 amp continuous and 26 amp maximum. 15:1 gear reducer.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...ntrol-to-Knee/

It works fine and if I apply power to it from a large battery charger,
it goes up and down very well.

The next thing I did is I connected it to a A-M-C 30A8 drive, the same
kind as what I have on all other axes.

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/A-M-C/30A8-Datasheet.pdf

This servo drive gets 72V DC power from the same DC power supply as
all other drives.

I have NOT connected this drive to EMC2 at all, and I send it a analog
signal from just a little DC power supply.

I tried torque mode and velocity mode.

It behaves VERY weirdly. If I tell it to move the knee down, it moves
it a little (think 0.5 inch), and then stops and the knee actually
comes back up (like by 0.1 inch)!

It does not move it up by more than 0.1 inch and does not come back,
as in the opposite example.

I am struggling to find an explanation.

The only one that I can come up with about this going down behavior,
is that perhaps the pneumatics of the pneumatic knee support is
messing me up.

Or, perhaps, this is a bad servo drive.

I am at a big loss, any ideas would be most welcomed.

i

Is the current limit set to an appropriate value?

Have you measured the actual output current via the current monitor
pin?

--
Ned Simmons

On Feb 28, 7:09*am, Ignoramus28206 ignoramus28...@NOSPAM.
28206.invalid wrote:
This is about putting a gear motor on the axis.

I am very puzzled.

I have this servo gear motor mounted on the knee. It is a 65V motor,
4.4 amp continuous and 26 amp maximum. 15:1 gear reducer.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...teract-2-CNC-M...

It works fine and if I apply power to it from a large battery charger,
it goes up and down very well.

The next thing I did is I connected it to a A-M-C 30A8 drive, the same
kind as what I have on all other axes.

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/A-M-C/30A8-Datasheet.pdf

This servo drive gets 72V DC power from the same DC power supply as
all other drives.

I have NOT connected this drive to EMC2 at all, and I send it a analog
signal from just a little DC power supply.

I tried torque mode and velocity mode.

It behaves VERY weirdly. If I tell it to move the knee down, it moves
it a little (think 0.5 inch), and then stops and the knee actually
comes back up (like by 0.1 inch)!

It does not move it up by more than 0.1 inch and does not come back,
as in the opposite example.

I am struggling to find an explanation.

The only one that I can come up with about this going down behavior,
is that perhaps the pneumatics of the pneumatic knee support is
messing me up.

Or, perhaps, this is a bad servo drive.

I am at a big loss, any ideas would be most welcomed.

i

This sevo amplifer requires analog signals for both command and
velocity feedback. I assume the motor is brush dc motor not a
bushless dc motor. Two drive wires vs three.

To test the amp/sevo motor I would set the amp for current mode.
Make sure all the jumpers are set correctly. Also make sure the
ground and common connections done correctly. IIRC the manual was a
pain to figger out jumper settings.

If you want to implement a velocity control mode in the amplifier you
are going to need a analog tac on the motor.

I have used an early version of this amp for a dc brush motor drive
and it worked well.

"Ignoramus28206" wrote in message
...
This is about putting a gear motor on the axis.

I am very puzzled.

I have this servo gear motor mounted on the knee. It is a 65V motor,
4.4 amp continuous and 26 amp maximum. 15:1 gear reducer.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...ntrol-to-Knee/

It works fine and if I apply power to it from a large battery charger,
it goes up and down very well.

The next thing I did is I connected it to a A-M-C 30A8 drive, the same
kind as what I have on all other axes.

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/A-M-C/30A8-Datasheet.pdf

This servo drive gets 72V DC power from the same DC power supply as
all other drives.

I have NOT connected this drive to EMC2 at all, and I send it a analog
signal from just a little DC power supply.

I tried torque mode and velocity mode.

It behaves VERY weirdly. If I tell it to move the knee down, it moves
it a little (think 0.5 inch), and then stops and the knee actually
comes back up (like by 0.1 inch)!

It does not move it up by more than 0.1 inch and does not come back,
as in the opposite example.

I am struggling to find an explanation.

The only one that I can come up with about this going down behavior,
is that perhaps the pneumatics of the pneumatic knee support is
messing me up.

Or, perhaps, this is a bad servo drive.

I am at a big loss, any ideas would be most welcomed.


You need to adjust your counterweight or connect active feedback before it
can be properly tuned.

On 2011-02-28, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"Ignoramus28206" wrote in message
...
This is about putting a gear motor on the axis.

I am very puzzled.

I have this servo gear motor mounted on the knee. It is a 65V motor,
4.4 amp continuous and 26 amp maximum. 15:1 gear reducer.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...ntrol-to-Knee/

It works fine and if I apply power to it from a large battery charger,
it goes up and down very well.

The next thing I did is I connected it to a A-M-C 30A8 drive, the same
kind as what I have on all other axes.

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/A-M-C/30A8-Datasheet.pdf

This servo drive gets 72V DC power from the same DC power supply as
all other drives.

I have NOT connected this drive to EMC2 at all, and I send it a analog
signal from just a little DC power supply.

I tried torque mode and velocity mode.

It behaves VERY weirdly. If I tell it to move the knee down, it moves
it a little (think 0.5 inch), and then stops and the knee actually
comes back up (like by 0.1 inch)!

It does not move it up by more than 0.1 inch and does not come back,
as in the opposite example.

I am struggling to find an explanation.

The only one that I can come up with about this going down behavior,
is that perhaps the pneumatics of the pneumatic knee support is
messing me up.

Or, perhaps, this is a bad servo drive.

I am at a big loss, any ideas would be most welcomed.


You need to adjust your counterweight or connect active feedback before it
can be properly tuned.



Well, I thought, that with a torque mode, I can just move it at ful
torque (full speed really) when I send 10v to the input. And that is
NOT what is happening.

i

On 2011-02-28, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:09:48 -0600, Ignoramus28206
wrote:

This is about putting a gear motor on the axis.

I am very puzzled.

I have this servo gear motor mounted on the knee. It is a 65V motor,
4.4 amp continuous and 26 amp maximum. 15:1 gear reducer.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...ntrol-to-Knee/

It works fine and if I apply power to it from a large battery charger,
it goes up and down very well.

The next thing I did is I connected it to a A-M-C 30A8 drive, the same
kind as what I have on all other axes.

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/A-M-C/30A8-Datasheet.pdf

This servo drive gets 72V DC power from the same DC power supply as
all other drives.

I have NOT connected this drive to EMC2 at all, and I send it a analog
signal from just a little DC power supply.

I tried torque mode and velocity mode.

It behaves VERY weirdly. If I tell it to move the knee down, it moves
it a little (think 0.5 inch), and then stops and the knee actually
comes back up (like by 0.1 inch)!

It does not move it up by more than 0.1 inch and does not come back,
as in the opposite example.

I am struggling to find an explanation.

The only one that I can come up with about this going down behavior,
is that perhaps the pneumatics of the pneumatic knee support is
messing me up.

Or, perhaps, this is a bad servo drive.

I am at a big loss, any ideas would be most welcomed.

i

Is the current limit set to an appropriate value?

Have you measured the actual output current via the current monitor
pin?


Ned, I will try to measure the current, indeed. I am not sure what
exactly is wrong, but it is a great idea. I have another 30A8 and I
can easily swap it.

i

"Ignoramus28206" wrote in message
...
On 2011-02-28, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:09:48 -0600, Ignoramus28206
wrote:

This is about putting a gear motor on the axis.

I am very puzzled.

I have this servo gear motor mounted on the knee. It is a 65V motor,
4.4 amp continuous and 26 amp maximum. 15:1 gear reducer.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...ntrol-to-Knee/

It works fine and if I apply power to it from a large battery charger,
it goes up and down very well.

The next thing I did is I connected it to a A-M-C 30A8 drive, the same
kind as what I have on all other axes.

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/A-M-C/30A8-Datasheet.pdf

This servo drive gets 72V DC power from the same DC power supply as
all other drives.

I have NOT connected this drive to EMC2 at all, and I send it a analog
signal from just a little DC power supply.

I tried torque mode and velocity mode.

It behaves VERY weirdly. If I tell it to move the knee down, it moves
it a little (think 0.5 inch), and then stops and the knee actually
comes back up (like by 0.1 inch)!

It does not move it up by more than 0.1 inch and does not come back,
as in the opposite example.

I am struggling to find an explanation.

The only one that I can come up with about this going down behavior,
is that perhaps the pneumatics of the pneumatic knee support is
messing me up.

Or, perhaps, this is a bad servo drive.

I am at a big loss, any ideas would be most welcomed.

i

Is the current limit set to an appropriate value?

Have you measured the actual output current via the current monitor
pin?


Ned, I will try to measure the current, indeed. I am not sure what
exactly is wrong, but it is a great idea. I have another 30A8 and I
can easily swap it.


Suggest use an automotive battery charger that has an ammeter on
it....connect directly to motor leads and note current draw going up and
also when going down--adjust your counterweight so as to obtain an appx
equal reading in both directions.

After that, your tuning should be a fairly textbook example unless you've
locked the knee or weighted the table down with an engine block or other
heavy item...

Suggest if you have a dc ammeter off of an old welder you can then place it
in series with the amp motor leads for adjusting your offset and curr
pots--after that you finally want to adjust gain for a critical or slight
underdamp.

AMC has a much better .pdf someplace in their tech litereature--explains
servo setup / tuning theory from a generic viewpoint sorry I don't have time
to look for it at the moment maybe later.

--

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:l9CdndkoY8SKQ_bQnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

AMC has a much better .pdf someplace in their tech litereature--explains
servo setup / tuning theory from a generic viewpoint sorry I don't have
time to look for it at the moment maybe later.


http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual...tallManual.pdf

--

On 2011-02-28, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:l9CdndkoY8SKQ_bQnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

AMC has a much better .pdf someplace in their tech litereature--explains
servo setup / tuning theory from a generic viewpoint sorry I don't have
time to look for it at the moment maybe later.


http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual...tallManual.pdf

Yes. Thank you. Note though, that I am not even trying to tune it. I
was just trying to get maximum output out of it.

i

Ignoramus28206 wrote:

On 2011-02-28, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:l9CdndkoY8SKQ_bQnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

AMC has a much better .pdf someplace in their tech litereature--explains
servo setup / tuning theory from a generic viewpoint sorry I don't have
time to look for it at the moment maybe later.


http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual...tallManual.pdf

Yes. Thank you. Note though, that I am not even trying to tune it. I
was just trying to get maximum output out of it.

i

Have you tried running the motor from the drive with the motor
disconnected from the table?

On 2011-02-28, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus28206 wrote:

On 2011-02-28, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:l9CdndkoY8SKQ_bQnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

AMC has a much better .pdf someplace in their tech litereature--explains
servo setup / tuning theory from a generic viewpoint sorry I don't have
time to look for it at the moment maybe later.


http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual...tallManual.pdf

Yes. Thank you. Note though, that I am not even trying to tune it. I
was just trying to get maximum output out of it.

i

Have you tried running the motor from the drive with the motor
disconnected from the table?

No, but this is a great question. I may do it.

i

"Ignoramus28206" wrote in message
...
On 2011-02-28, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:l9CdndkoY8SKQ_bQnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

AMC has a much better .pdf someplace in their tech litereature--explains
servo setup / tuning theory from a generic viewpoint sorry I don't have
time to look for it at the moment maybe later.


http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual...tallManual.pdf

Yes. Thank you. Note though, that I am not even trying to tune it.

Umm, yes you are....

I was just trying to get maximum output out of it.

Sounds to me like it's freewheeling when going down--to the point where it
actually temporarily reverses as soon as you remove sig...but when going
up, your not giving it nearly enough current.....

HORSE-------CARRIAGE

--you MIGHT be able get away to running a heavily imbalanced mechanical load
in IR mode IF there is enough OFFSET adjustment available at the amplifier
pot...but in my experience, probably not...

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:X62dnfHV58H0h_HQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

AMC has a much better .pdf someplac

PT, All the AMC distributors I've looked up (so far) say, "Call us for a
quote".

How much do those drives cost? (yes, I know there are varying capabilities
in the line, but any thumbnail prices?)

Say, a 3-ph analog drive capable of 20A...

Thanks,
LLoyd

On Feb 28, 2:14*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley innews:X62dnfHV58H0h_HQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@scnresearc h.com:

AMC has a much better .pdf someplac

PT, All the AMC distributors I've looked up (so far) say, "Call us for a
quote".

How much do those drives cost? (yes, I know there are varying capabilities
in the line, but any thumbnail prices?)

Say, a 3-ph analog drive capable of 20A...

Thanks,
LLoyd
From the discussion:

The motor works with a dc source. This implies the motor is working
and is not overly loaded.

Problem has somthing to do with the drive amplifier. I have used
older versions of these devices and they are almost bullet proof. I
expect it is somthing to do with how it is hooked up or the jumper/
switch settings.

Make sure the motor and power supply is hooked up to the correct
terminals. Don't ask me why I know to check this one.

Make sure the amplifer is set for current/torque or Voltage mode

Make sure the control signal is grounded correctly. ie positive to
input possitve negitve to negitve and GROUND. Don't ask me why I know
to check this one too.



Put a DVM on the current moitor signal and see if it is showing
current

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:14:12 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:X62dnfHV58H0h_HQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@scnresearch .com:

AMC has a much better .pdf someplac

PT, All the AMC distributors I've looked up (so far) say, "Call us for a
quote".

How much do those drives cost? (yes, I know there are varying capabilities
in the line, but any thumbnail prices?)

Say, a 3-ph analog drive capable of 20A...

Thanks,
LLoyd

It's been a while since I've purchased an AMC drive, but around $400
for a DC powered 20A brushless drive, $500 for AC line powered, is in
the ballpark.

--
Ned Simmons

$30 on ebay

On 2011-02-28, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:14:12 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:X62dnfHV58H0h_HQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@scnresearc h.com:

AMC has a much better .pdf someplac

PT, All the AMC distributors I've looked up (so far) say, "Call us for a
quote".

How much do those drives cost? (yes, I know there are varying capabilities
in the line, but any thumbnail prices?)

Say, a 3-ph analog drive capable of 20A...

Thanks,
LLoyd

It's been a while since I've purchased an AMC drive, but around $400
for a DC powered 20A brushless drive, $500 for AC line powered, is in
the ballpark.

$30 on ebay
AND

around $400
for a DC powered 20A brushless drive, $500 for AC line powered, is in
the ballpark.


SO... we have a middle ground! Thanks.

LLoyd

OK.

I have fixed all servo drive issues.

1. Some bolt was too tight and there was way too much friction.
2. I set the drive to provide only 25% of peak (25% of 30 amps = 7.5
amps) and that was not enough. I changed it to provide 50% of peak
amps, which is 15%, and now it works great.
3. Like I said, the drive is not yet connected to EMC. Partly this is
because I have not had time, and partly it is because I need to first
get a D/A converter card from Jon, which I forgot to order in time.

At least, what I have now, can be considered a motorized knee without
the CNC feedback/positioning. I can move it up and down, by providing
a signal from a little power supply, with a toy knife switch.

i

On 2011-03-01, Ignoramus28206 wrote:
OK.

I have fixed all servo drive issues.

1. Some bolt was too tight and there was way too much friction.
2. I set the drive to provide only 25% of peak (25% of 30 amps = 7.5
amps) and that was not enough. I changed it to provide 50% of peak
amps, which is 15%, and now it works great.

I mean 15 amps

3. Like I said, the drive is not yet connected to EMC. Partly this is
because I have not had time, and partly it is because I need to first
get a D/A converter card from Jon, which I forgot to order in time.

At least, what I have now, can be considered a motorized knee without
the CNC feedback/positioning. I can move it up and down, by providing
a signal from a little power supply, with a toy knife switch.

i

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:X62dnfHV58H0h_HQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

AMC has a much better .pdf someplac

PT, All the AMC distributors I've looked up (so far) say, "Call us for a
quote".

How much do those drives cost? (yes, I know there are varying capabilities
in the line, but any thumbnail prices?)

Say, a 3-ph analog drive capable of 20A...


Dunno I usually buy them off a ebay on as-needed basis for automating
dedicated second op machines

--AMC, Servo Dynamics and Copley come up there quite frequently and since
they are basically interchangable.....

As to surplus 3 phase IMO you might just as well make up your own power
supply--either buy one that's setup for DC or buy a single phase one and
jerk off the existing power supply since they are usually just a stock dc
unit with the addition of a bridge rectifier, cap and bleeder mounted onto
the heat sink.

--