Ted Frater wrote:
beauvine wrote:
Hi, I do soldering associated with my stained-glass work. What I'm
wondering is, what's the difference between soldering and welding,
especially in terms of strength...? I'd like to make some
stained-glass-topped metal tables, but what relatively-little I've
seen about welding makes it seem super-expensive, dangerous, and
generally daunting. Apologies if this is a stupid question, but what can
I say,
"Inquiring minds want to know" LOL!

Thanks for your patience, and whatever info you might wish to share
with me =:-)

Ive done stained glass assembly with lead camions and ive also done a
lot of stainless steel welding using arc and an inert gas shield
,called argon.
I think i might be able to help you decide whats the best way forward
it might just be that its better for you to to concentrate on your
glass work and get someone else to do the s/steel welding and
assembly for you to your design.
A table inherently needs a firm flat surface for its use, and a
stained glass panel when laid flat without support is inherently
going to sag in the middle from its own weight let alone in use .
so as someone else has suggested, you would need a clear glass table
top undereneath you stained glass panel to provide the neccesary
support. If it were me, id do something quite different with the
stained glass table top.
This is what id do, using all glass and no lead.
Id take a clear glass sheet and lay the stained glass on it to the
design id want. have a border around it like on double glazing, then
pour a clear resin over it all with another clear glass sheet on top.
When illuminated from the underneath would look stunning and be
structurally sound.
hope this helps.
ted
in Dorset
UK.

there are plenty of techniques to solve sagging problems in horizontally
mounted stained glass panels. the easiest ones are to use steel flat rebar
on edge tied to the metal cames as support members.

this is a 4' square piece, made up as 4 panels each 2' square, under a
skylight.

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1296570318

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/Gal6606_Chani_Artss_Gallery.asp

On Jan 30, 9:27*pm, beauvine wrote:
Hi, *I do soldering associated with my stained-glass work. *What I'm
wondering is, what's the difference between soldering and welding, especially
in terms of strength...? *I'd like to make some stained-glass-topped metal
tables, but what relatively-little I've seen about welding makes it seem
super-expensive, dangerous, and generally daunting.

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but what can I say, "Inquiring minds
want to know" *LOL!

Thanks for your patience, and whatever info you might wish to share with me *
=:-)

You probably aren't going to solder the substrate of the table
together and definitely won't be welding your glass. I've seen some
tables done like stained glass, they were either cast in plastic with
a glass top all laid on a bent wrought-iron type support or had a
glass backer and a glass top with metal edging. Can be done and done
attractively They were very small, not quite plant stand but smaller
than a bar table. The bases could be welded, riveted or bolted
together.

As far as your original question about soldering, this is a low
temperature process that uses a melted filler metal to bond metals
together, the pieces don't melt themselves. With welding, your
workpieces melt and either furnish the material themselves for the
joint or a similar metal is added as filler and melted along with the
work pieces. Generally much higher temperature than soldering, the
exception would be lead-burning where lead's melting point is so low
that it's more like soldering..

Your stained glasswork isn't going to be self-supporting when laid
horizontally, at least if joined with copper foil or lead cane, and
will need some sort of base under it to take the weight. Can be wood,
too. If a guy was an ace welder and sheetmetal guy, I suppose he
could bend up, cut and weld up a design from small steel T-bar, then
put cut glass in the pockets and grout it all down. Would be a lot of
work, but could be done if a guy was talented enough and motivated.
TIG would probably be the process of choice for that. Designed
correctly, that could be self-supporting. You'd probably still want a
sheet of glass over the top.

There are probably several members here that have machines that could
CNC plasma cut the top out of solid plate, then CNC mill the glass
pockets, too. Or plasma cut the design into three plates, make a
sandwich and skip the milling, two thin plates on top and bottom with
smaller holes and the main one to hold the glass in-between. Lotsa
ways of doing it, the design is the thing.

Stan

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:27:17 -0600, beauvine wrote:

Hi, I do soldering associated with my stained-glass work. What I'm
wondering is, what's the difference between soldering and welding, especially
in terms of strength...? I'd like to make some stained-glass-topped metal
tables, but what relatively-little I've seen about welding makes it seem
super-expensive, dangerous, and generally daunting.

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but what can I say, "Inquiring minds
want to know" LOL!

Thanks for your patience, and whatever info you might wish to share with me
=:-)

A non-metalworking option is to use glass paints that are available at
Hobby Lobby and similar places. They definitely do not look as good
as real stained glass but they don't look bad.

The wife had painted a canvas to look like a stained-glass window that
she had designed but never made. I got a rectangle of heavy window
glass the same size as one of our bedroom windows and replicated that
painting as nearly as I could, using glass paints***, and mounted it
in the window. She loved it. Unfortunately it self-destructed one
day, I don't recall how it broke.
--
Best -- Terry
***because my stained-glass skills suck... :-)

Terry wrote:

in the window. She loved it. Unfortunately it self-destructed one
day, I don't recall how it broke.

She just _told_ you she loved it, so as to not hurt your feelings, then
one day she "accidentally" bumped it with the broom handle. :-

Cheers!
Rich

On 01/31/2011 04:51 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Jon wrote

Oh, one thing about TIG, the UV from the arc is extremely powerful, and
will burn you the color of a cooked lobster THROUGH your clothes. So,
heavy welding jackets and other protective gear is an absolute must.
You don't need to ask HOW I know that!

Jon

Make yourself a snood (yes, that is a word, it's even in OSHA literature) of
a piece of supple leather to cover up the exposed skin in the vee in your
shirt under your chin. That area can get lobster red. Of course, it
happened to a friend of mine. I'd never be that stupid
Well, I don't use a snood, but have a welding jacket made for the
purpose, and it has snaps that go high enough in the neck area to
protect me up to where the hood covers. So, with that, I'm fine. But,
before I got the jacket, I got a burn THROUGH my shirt! The worst parts
were around the underarm area, where I guess the sun doesn't shine much,
so that skin was totally white and unprotected before.
But, my entire chest was bright scarlet for a week. I was wearing a
heavy, dark permanent-press shirt that I'd (stick) welded in before with
no problem. But, TIG is a completely different kind of UV output.

Jon

On Feb 2, 3:30*pm, Jon Elson wrote:

But, my entire chest was bright scarlet for a week. *I was wearing a
heavy, dark permanent-press shirt that I'd (stick) welded in before with
no problem. *But, TIG is a completely different kind of UV output.

Jon

I don't think it is different UV, but there is no smoke from the rod
coating to adsorb any of the UV. Some shirts will protect you, others
seem transparent to UV.

Dan

On 02/02/2011 04:29 PM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 3:30 pm, Jon wrote:

But, my entire chest was bright scarlet for a week. I was wearing a
heavy, dark permanent-press shirt that I'd (stick) welded in before with
no problem. But, TIG is a completely different kind of UV output.

Jon

I don't think it is different UV, but there is no smoke from the rod
coating to adsorb any of the UV. Some shirts will protect you, others
seem transparent to UV.

Dan

Yes, I think a flannel shirt might offer fair protection, I seem to
recall the one I had that day might have been a thinner permanent-press
one. Anyway, that was a SERIOUS burn, worse than any sunburn I ever
got, and I have been sunburned badly a few times. So, I will stick with
the heavy welding jacket. I don't know what is in it, but it obviously
has several layers of heavy stuff inside, between to layers of heavy
canvas-like stuff. I do know it gives great protection.

Jon

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 17:53:32 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 02/02/2011 04:29 PM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 3:30 pm, Jon wrote:

But, my entire chest was bright scarlet for a week. I was wearing a
heavy, dark permanent-press shirt that I'd (stick) welded in before with
no problem. But, TIG is a completely different kind of UV output.

Jon

I don't think it is different UV, but there is no smoke from the rod
coating to adsorb any of the UV. Some shirts will protect you, others
seem transparent to UV.

Dan

Yes, I think a flannel shirt might offer fair protection, I seem to
recall the one I had that day might have been a thinner permanent-press
one. Anyway, that was a SERIOUS burn, worse than any sunburn I ever
got, and I have been sunburned badly a few times. So, I will stick with
the heavy welding jacket. I don't know what is in it, but it obviously
has several layers of heavy stuff inside, between to layers of heavy
canvas-like stuff. I do know it gives great protection.

Jon

Unless you're very fair-skinned, I suspect there was something unusual
about that shirt. I've been TIG welding for 35 years, including
several years welding every day, and plenty of time at 300+ amps
joining heavy aluminum. I've never taken any care in my choice of
clothing beyond making sure I was covered, and I've never had a UV
burn.

--
Ned Simmons

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:42:17 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 17:53:32 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:


Yes, I think a flannel shirt might offer fair protection, I seem to
recall the one I had that day might have been a thinner permanent-press
one. Anyway, that was a SERIOUS burn, worse than any sunburn I ever
got, and I have been sunburned badly a few times. So, I will stick with
the heavy welding jacket. I don't know what is in it, but it obviously
has several layers of heavy stuff inside, between to layers of heavy
canvas-like stuff. I do know it gives great protection.

Jon

Unless you're very fair-skinned, I suspect there was something unusual
about that shirt. I've been TIG welding for 35 years, including
several years welding every day, and plenty of time at 300+ amps
joining heavy aluminum. I've never taken any care in my choice of
clothing beyond making sure I was covered, and I've never had a UV
burn.

I should have added that I don't mean to encourage folks to take risks
with too little protection, or to criticize you for being cautious
after a very bad experience. My point was that most folks have no
problem TIGging in a long sleeved work shirt.

--
Ned Simmons

On Feb 5, 3:52*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:42:17 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:





On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 17:53:32 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Yes, I think a flannel shirt might offer fair protection, I seem to
recall the one I had that day might have been a thinner permanent-press
one. *Anyway, that was a SERIOUS burn, worse than any sunburn I ever
got, and I have been sunburned badly a few times. *So, I will stick with
the heavy welding jacket. *I don't know what is in it, but it obviously
has several layers of heavy stuff inside, between to layers of heavy
canvas-like stuff. *I do know it gives great protection.

Jon

Unless you're very fair-skinned, I suspect there was something unusual
about that shirt. I've been TIG welding for 35 years, including
several years welding every day, and plenty of time at 300+ amps
joining heavy aluminum. I've never taken any care in my choice of
clothing beyond making sure I was covered, and I've never had a UV
burn.

I should have added that I don't mean to encourage folks to take risks
with too little protection, or to criticize you for being cautious
after a very bad experience. My point was that most folks have no
problem TIGging in a long sleeved work shirt.

--
Ned Simmons

A possible factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_brightener

jsw

On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 12:58:40 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Feb 5, 3:52*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:42:17 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:





On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 17:53:32 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Yes, I think a flannel shirt might offer fair protection, I seem to
recall the one I had that day might have been a thinner permanent-press
one. *Anyway, that was a SERIOUS burn, worse than any sunburn I ever
got, and I have been sunburned badly a few times. *So, I will stick with
the heavy welding jacket. *I don't know what is in it, but it obviously
has several layers of heavy stuff inside, between to layers of heavy
canvas-like stuff. *I do know it gives great protection.

Jon

Unless you're very fair-skinned, I suspect there was something unusual
about that shirt. I've been TIG welding for 35 years, including
several years welding every day, and plenty of time at 300+ amps
joining heavy aluminum. I've never taken any care in my choice of
clothing beyond making sure I was covered, and I've never had a UV
burn.

I should have added that I don't mean to encourage folks to take risks
with too little protection, or to criticize you for being cautious
after a very bad experience. My point was that most folks have no
problem TIGging in a long sleeved work shirt.

--
Ned Simmons

A possible factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_brightener

jsw

Huh, that's a new one on me, though if you saw my wardrobe my lack of
awareness of fabric brighteners would be no surprise.

--
Ned Simmons