On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:36:17 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:48:45 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Jan 12, 9:36*pm, "LibtardStupid" ihbfd@lhu wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

...

You are safer, period. *Just showing a gun will head off the majority
of perp actions. They thrive on the unarmed and frozen frames of the
unwashed.

I don't remember where I saw the statistics, but supposedly there are
millions of unreported incidents per year that starts with a confrontation,
a handgun is produced by the intended victim and the perp runs away. *No
shots fired, no police reports. *If I ever have to produce a firearm I hope
it goes that way, I hate cleaning guns! *I know, I just won't bring any of
those dirty cartridges!

Conservative children dreaming.

If you pull a gun on someone like me, you better damn well pull the
trigger...because I will.

If by "someone like me" you mean an ill-spoken anonymous usenet troll,

No, I he must have meant that he's a perp, out there attacking people.
That's what we were discussing.


I won't draw or fire and you won't pull such tiny trigger as you may
be able to find thru the hole in your pocket.

Try pulling a gun on a cop and see if he runs away.

I'm talking perps and he's talking about cops? WTF?


Your violent fantasies have zero correllation with my behavior.

sigh Why do you bother responding to these trolls?

--
A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on.
-- William S. Burroughs

On Jan 13, 3:17*am, Don Foreman wrote:


Those who abhor violence might do well to focus on dealing with
violence rather than try to form associations between nutcases and
whatever political persuasions they dislike.

And even though we're all "pretty sure" that Gunner's talk of a "great
cull" is all just fantasy, it raises a couple of questions:

1) How do we _KNOW_ it's just fantasy? How do we know that his talk
should not be taken seriously and that we shouldn't drop a dime to the
FBI on him?

2) Is a person who obviously derives great pleasure from such
fantasies mentally stable? Should a person who talks incessantly about
violent acts, be they real or fantastic, be allowed to own firearms?
Where do you draw the line?

Just to be perfectly clear, this isn't aimed at Gunner alone. He is,
however a convenient example for discussion's sake.

1) We? *If you think someone should call the FBI and report Gunner's
great cull posts, *please lead from in front and do so forthwith. I
hope it makes you feel better, and I'll about guarantee that you'll
find it educational. Please keep us posted on your progress,
experiences and frustrations. *

Don, If I choose to call the authorities, you can rest assured that
you won't hear about it from me. Perhaps Gunner'll call you to beg for
bail money. I have personal friend who are FBI agents. I guarantee you
that there will be no frustration at all. I pass on a few usenet
postings, a name, address and phone number, and they do the rest. It's
what they get paid for, and they welcome such tips.

2) *The line is quite clear: freedom of speech that you might find
offensive is protected by the 1st amendment. Fantasy violence is not
illegal nor is it prima facie evidence of mental defect. *There are
video games available to teenagers that portray (and perhaps
encourage) violence far more vividly and graphically than anything
Gunner has ever posted on usenet in his best efforts to shock readers.

The teenagers who play those games do not, for the most part, own
small arsenals. Nor do they claim to. Nor do they brag about the
bodies they've buried in the desert. Nor do they invite their
adversaries to show-downs or knife fights (in the dark, no less). And
who is Don Foreman, and what qualifies him to be the judge of Gunner's
sanity? How do you know that Gunner's postings are just efforts to
shock readers? How do you know he's not truly a murderer? Because he
said so? Would you stake your life, or you kid's life on that?


With very limited exceptions, law of the land does not permit legal
action against another based on what he says or what others think he
might do.

That is true, and this week, we have seen the result of that. This is
a very tough nut to crack. I'm all in favor of personal freedom, but
there are certainly times when it's so ****ing obvious that someone
presents a danger. Are you suggesting that there's NOTHING that can be
done about that? One store refused to sell the shooter ammunition. Are
you suggesting that they were wrong to do so? if not, why not?

If you abhor violence then focus on miscreants that do violence rather
than those whom you think might based upon how you react to what they
post on usenet.

This is not abour how *I* react. the killer in Tucson had not
committed a violent act until...well, you know the story. Are you
seriously suggesting that the only solution to situations like that is
to wait for someone to die? Seriously?

I'm not pretending that I have the answers, either. But I *am* willing
to participate in the discussion. You, apparently have closed the door
on that.

Yer note about "not aimed at Gunner alone" duly noted. Target moi?

Did I say that? (hint...I did not.)

I am not zeolously either liberal or conservative and my religious
beliefs (or absence thereof) are none of yer beeswax. *

Who asked?

I am a gentle
and nurturing man, but also a vet and a realist. *I carry a gun some
days. *

Yes, Don, we all know that.

He who would mug or rape this senior gentleman will experience
explosively violent lethal response beyond anything he ever imagined.

Not if you're dead.

I may look like easy prey, low hanging fruit for predators... but I'm
not and they sense that. *Predators are street smart, focus on easy
prey.

And?

I am not a vigilante. *Could be, might become so if Mary dies
before I do. *

Sorry, I don't follow. Are you expecting to "snap?" Look, Don, I'm
really sorry that Mary is sick. She sounds like a great woman and a
great friend to you. I don't mean to be condescending here, really I
don't. You have to take care of yourself. You'll be no good to her if,
as her condition worsens, you start to come apart at the seams. Frayed
at the edges, sure, that's to be expected. But you'll be doing
yourself and her a favor if you invest some time now planning on how
you'll cope.


**** happens, life is fair now and then, here and there ... not fair
if Mar dies before me but life is hardly ever fair. *

And not fair to her if you should die first. Who ever guaranteed that
life would be fair? Sigh... But don't get me started on the
existential ****. I'm way too tired, and pretty damned well disgusted
from today's unfairnesses, which is a whole other story.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:53:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:19:59 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:



No, I he must have meant that he's a perp, out there attacking people.
That's what we were discussing.

Anonymous usenet trolls don't actually harm anyone. They amuse
themselves by trying to be offensive from their keyboards. TMT is
rather low talent in this regard, bottom drawer though marginally
better than a few others who are utterly ridiculous.

Try pulling a gun on a cop and see if he runs away.

I'm talking perps and he's talking about cops? WTF?

TMT is easily confused and often incoherent. He apparently doesn't
understand that there is no reason to have a gun, much less draw it,
if a cop is present to maintain order and deal with predators. If
cops are always present to defend then there is no need for self
defense. That may be the case where TMT lives. If 911 gets 'er done
there's no need for 1911 and consequent large legal defense expense.
If we are a nation "awash in guns" we are also a nation awash in
scumbag lawyers. A shooting of a predatory assailant that is deemed
by authorities to be completely justifiable in terms of criminal law
is still subject to civil proceedings with attendant cost of defense.
Dropping an assailant could cost a responsible citizen $50K or so.
Incurring heavy debt beats getting killed most days, but it still
sucks as a cost of surviving an attack by a predator.

Yeah, there is that. Visually showing potential perps that you can
defend yourself is a lot cheaper, if you can't just run away.


Then TMT goes on to swagger wide about what would happen if I "pulled
a gun" on "someone like him". Nevah happen. He's no threat, and he
obviously has no clue about self defense. I'll never "pull a gun" on
anyone. That isn't consistent with a pocket holster, an IWB concealed
carry, or my situation as a gentle senior veteran disinclined to be
low-hanging fruit for a predator. I'm a gentleman, not a gunslinger.
I pay attention when out and about, sense and avoid potential threats.
That has always been possible and I expect it will continue to be so.
But if it isn't ... I'll have my pistol unobstrusively in hand. From
there I can deliver a Mozambique tripletap in well under 2 seconds
with the first round gone in well under 0.5 seconds, and all rounds

With that KelTec P-11, I'd be lucky to get 3 shots off in that many
seconds. They have a 1/2" travel and a 12 lb pull. sigh Well, maybe
not quite that bad. Perhaps a nice 1911 is in my future (after April
15th, if I have any stray ducats lying around. I only got 4 hours in
this workweek. By then I'll be overloaded.)


hit max score regions on target. Situational stress might diminish
performance slightly, but not materially because stress is built in to
the time constraints of my point-and-shoot practice. No lasers, no
sight picture to grope for with adrenaline-induced tunnel vision, just
bambam..bam. Recoil control is the primary factor, keep that muzzle
delivering rapid fire on target. Stiff wrists, trigger, and attitude.
I rarely win the bullseye competition in our gunsmoke luncheon
socials, but my fun-competitive shooting buds thus far won't even
engage in fast-engagement doubletap or Mozambique competition and they
won't let me use a .357 Mag revolver in slow-fire bullseye. Todd is
getting interested in doubletap and he's been coaching Laura in same
so there may be hope and change ahead. Meanwhile, the company and
lunches at the Mex joint are always very enjoyable. Gunsmoke,
friendship, conversation and an excellent chimichanga, what's not to
like?

Only the CODB at the range. Range fees an bullets don't come cheap
nowadays, but gunsmoke, friendship, conversation, and great Mex food
are _never_ anything to sneer at.


I could still be ambushed on the trail but I pay particular attention
on the parts of the urban and rural trails I walk that would be good
ambush sites.

It's freakin' winter in MN. Today I got my cardio exercise by pushing
snow around with a shovel that I could blow with a leafblower but
being outdoors purely beats the freakin' treadmill in the house. I
don't carry a gun while shoving snow around in my driveway.

Yeah, it'd just freeze into your pocket.


A young woman I don't know from the rental across the street came over
with snow shovel in hand, asking if I'd like a bit of help. For those
who may find this incredible, this is Minnesota. I said I was shoving
snow as a cardio exercise but I purely did appreciate her offer to
help. She said, "but it's cold today!" I said "it's not cold if
you're shovelling snow."

I've cleaned gutters in 40F and have had to take off my little
windbreaker before working up too much of a sweat. The client came out
and asked "Aren't you freezing in a t-shirt in this weather?" and I
pointed out the sweat lineon the shirt, replying "Only my ears. My
body furnace is going full bore right now, climbing up and down this
ladder and hauling the bucket around. But I keep a watch cap over my
ears. They freeze at this temp."


That rental across the street is section 8 housing, always suspect.
This young woman seemed sincere in intent to help this senior. Good
**** happens in MN now and then, here and there.

This is good. Kudos to the neighbor.


Off to Mayo in Rochester tomorrow for chemo for Mary. I don't pack a
pistol there. There is no posted prohibition at Mayo, but the mortal
threat at hand can't be neutralized with bullets. I'll walk the
skyways and subways while her IV drips, get my 3 miles done. She's
quite OK with that.

Do you at least keep a kubaton at hand when out wandering? They're
great close-to-combat defensive weapons.


We continue to be a strong small team as long as
either one of us is strong. Mary carried the team in 2008 when I was
laid low for a while, too weak to **** but too ornery to die.

Now it's my turn. I'm on it!

Good man. Carry on!
Healing hugs to Mary.

--
A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on.
-- William S. Burroughs

On Jan 14, 1:53*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:19:59 -0800, Larry Jaques

wrote:
No, I he must have meant that he's a perp, out there attacking people.
That's what we were discussing.

Anonymous usenet trolls don't actually harm anyone. * They amuse
themselves by trying to be offensive from their keyboards. TMT is
rather low talent in this regard, bottom drawer though marginally
better than a few others who are utterly ridiculous.

Try pulling a gun on a cop and see if he runs away.

I'm talking perps and he's talking about cops? *WTF?

TMT is easily confused and often incoherent. *He apparently doesn't
understand that there is no reason to have a gun, much less draw it,
if a cop is present to maintain order and deal with predators. *If
cops are always present to defend then there is no need for self
defense. *That may be the case where TMT lives. If 911 gets 'er done
there's no need for 1911 and consequent large legal defense expense.
If we are a nation "awash in guns" we are also a nation awash in
scumbag lawyers. *A shooting of a predatory assailant *that is deemed
by authorities to be completely justifiable in terms of criminal law
is still subject to civil proceedings with attendant cost of defense.
Dropping an assailant could cost a responsible citizen $50K or so.
Incurring heavy debt beats getting killed most days, but it still
sucks as a cost of surviving an attack by a predator.

Then TMT *goes on to swagger wide about what would happen if I "pulled
a gun" on "someone like him". *Nevah happen. He's no threat, and he
obviously has no clue about self defense. *I'll never "pull a gun" on
anyone. That isn't consistent with a pocket holster, an IWB concealed
carry, or my situation as a gentle senior veteran *disinclined to be
low-hanging fruit for a predator. I'm a gentleman, not a gunslinger.
I pay attention when out and about, sense and avoid potential threats.
That has always been possible and I expect it will continue to be so.
But if it isn't ... I'll have my pistol unobstrusively in hand. *From
there I can deliver a Mozambique tripletap in well under 2 seconds
with the first round gone in well under 0.5 seconds, and all rounds
hit max score regions on target. Situational stress might diminish
performance slightly, but not materially because stress is built in to
the time constraints of my point-and-shoot practice. *No lasers, no
sight picture to grope for with adrenaline-induced tunnel vision, just
bambam..bam. *Recoil control is the primary factor, keep that muzzle
delivering rapid fire on target. *Stiff wrists, trigger, and attitude.
I rarely win the bullseye competition in our gunsmoke luncheon
socials, but my fun-competitive shooting buds thus far won't even
engage in fast-engagement doubletap or Mozambique competition and they
won't let me use a .357 Mag revolver in slow-fire bullseye. *Todd is
getting interested in doubletap and he's been coaching Laura in same
so there may be hope and change ahead. Meanwhile, the company and
lunches at the Mex joint are always very enjoyable. *Gunsmoke,
friendship, conversation and an excellent chimichanga, what's not to
like?

I could still be ambushed on the trail *but I pay particular attention
on the parts of the urban and rural trails I walk that would be good
ambush sites.

It's freakin' winter in MN. *Today I got my cardio exercise by pushing
snow around with a shovel that I could blow with a leafblower but
being outdoors purely beats the freakin' treadmill in the house. *I
don't carry a gun while shoving snow around in my driveway.

A young woman I don't know from the rental across the street came over
with snow shovel in hand, asking if I'd like a bit of help. *For those
who may find this incredible, this is Minnesota. *I said I was shoving
snow as a cardio exercise but I purely did appreciate her offer to
help. *She said, "but it's cold today!" *I said "it's not cold if
you're shovelling snow." *

That rental across the street is section 8 housing, always suspect.
This young woman seemed sincere in intent to help this senior. Good
**** happens in MN now and then, here and there. *

Off to Mayo in Rochester tomorrow for chemo for Mary. I don't pack a
pistol there. * There is no posted prohibition at Mayo, but the mortal
threat at hand can't be neutralized with bullets. I'll walk the
skyways and subways while her IV drips, get my 3 miles done. *She's
quite OK with that. We continue to be a strong small team as long as
either one of us is strong. *Mary carried the team in 2008 when I was
laid low for a while, too weak to **** but too ornery to die.

Now it's my turn. *I'm on it!

Again Don uses his mouth instead of his brain...channeling
Gummer...figures.

I wish Mary the best of luck....

TMT

On Jan 14, 1:53*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:19:59 -0800, Larry Jaques

wrote:
No, I he must have meant that he's a perp, out there attacking people.
That's what we were discussing.

Anonymous usenet trolls don't actually harm anyone. * They amuse
themselves by trying to be offensive from their keyboards. TMT is
rather low talent in this regard, bottom drawer though marginally
better than a few others who are utterly ridiculous.

Try pulling a gun on a cop and see if he runs away.

I'm talking perps and he's talking about cops? *WTF?

TMT is easily confused and often incoherent. *He apparently doesn't
understand that there is no reason to have a gun, much less draw it,
if a cop is present to maintain order and deal with predators. *If
cops are always present to defend then there is no need for self
defense. *That may be the case where TMT lives. If 911 gets 'er done
there's no need for 1911 and consequent large legal defense expense.
If we are a nation "awash in guns" we are also a nation awash in
scumbag lawyers. *A shooting of a predatory assailant *that is deemed
by authorities to be completely justifiable in terms of criminal law
is still subject to civil proceedings with attendant cost of defense.
Dropping an assailant could cost a responsible citizen $50K or so.
Incurring heavy debt beats getting killed most days, but it still
sucks as a cost of surviving an attack by a predator.

Then TMT *goes on to swagger wide about what would happen if I "pulled
a gun" on "someone like him". *Nevah happen. He's no threat, and he
obviously has no clue about self defense. *I'll never "pull a gun" on
anyone. That isn't consistent with a pocket holster, an IWB concealed
carry, or my situation as a gentle senior veteran *disinclined to be
low-hanging fruit for a predator. I'm a gentleman, not a gunslinger.
I pay attention when out and about, sense and avoid potential threats.
That has always been possible and I expect it will continue to be so.
But if it isn't ... I'll have my pistol unobstrusively in hand. *From
there I can deliver a Mozambique tripletap in well under 2 seconds
with the first round gone in well under 0.5 seconds, and all rounds
hit max score regions on target. Situational stress might diminish
performance slightly, but not materially because stress is built in to
the time constraints of my point-and-shoot practice. *No lasers, no
sight picture to grope for with adrenaline-induced tunnel vision, just
bambam..bam. *Recoil control is the primary factor, keep that muzzle
delivering rapid fire on target. *Stiff wrists, trigger, and attitude.
I rarely win the bullseye competition in our gunsmoke luncheon
socials, but my fun-competitive shooting buds thus far won't even
engage in fast-engagement doubletap or Mozambique competition and they
won't let me use a .357 Mag revolver in slow-fire bullseye. *Todd is
getting interested in doubletap and he's been coaching Laura in same
so there may be hope and change ahead. Meanwhile, the company and
lunches at the Mex joint are always very enjoyable. *Gunsmoke,
friendship, conversation and an excellent chimichanga, what's not to
like?

I could still be ambushed on the trail *but I pay particular attention
on the parts of the urban and rural trails I walk that would be good
ambush sites.

It's freakin' winter in MN. *Today I got my cardio exercise by pushing
snow around with a shovel that I could blow with a leafblower but
being outdoors purely beats the freakin' treadmill in the house. *I
don't carry a gun while shoving snow around in my driveway.

A young woman I don't know from the rental across the street came over
with snow shovel in hand, asking if I'd like a bit of help. *For those
who may find this incredible, this is Minnesota. *I said I was shoving
snow as a cardio exercise but I purely did appreciate her offer to
help. *She said, "but it's cold today!" *I said "it's not cold if
you're shovelling snow." *

That rental across the street is section 8 housing, always suspect.
This young woman seemed sincere in intent to help this senior. Good
**** happens in MN now and then, here and there. *

Off to Mayo in Rochester tomorrow for chemo for Mary. I don't pack a
pistol there. * There is no posted prohibition at Mayo, but the mortal
threat at hand can't be neutralized with bullets. I'll walk the
skyways and subways while her IV drips, get my 3 miles done. *She's
quite OK with that. We continue to be a strong small team as long as
either one of us is strong. *Mary carried the team in 2008 when I was
laid low for a while, too weak to **** but too ornery to die.

Now it's my turn. *I'm on it!

I wonder how what the doctors would think of Don and his guns if Mary
should die on their watch.

TMT

On Jan 14, 7:54*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:53:35 -0600, Don Foreman





wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:19:59 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Yeah, there is that. Visually showing potential perps that you can
defend yourself is a lot cheaper, if you can't just run away.


- Show quoted text -

As I said before, flashing a gun in a tense situation will get you
killed if the "potential prep" is a cop.

You are watching far too much television if you think that you as a
civilian will have assessed a potential situation accurately to know
who the good/bad guy is...contrary to popular opinion preps don't wear
black hats...and nor do good guys wear white ones.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 14, 7:54*am, Larry Jaques
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:53:35 -0600, Don Foreman
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:19:59 -0800, Larry Jaques

Yeah, there is that. Visually showing potential perps that you can
defend yourself is a lot cheaper, if you can't just run away.

As I said before, flashing a gun in a tense situation will get you
killed if the "potential prep" is a cop.

You are watching far too much television if you think that you as a
civilian will have assessed a potential situation accurately to know
who the good/bad guy is...contrary to popular opinion preps don't wear
black hats...and nor do good guys wear white ones.

Do you mean "perps?" It sounds like you're talking about rich freshmen. ;-)

Thanks,
Rich

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:54:47 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Off to Mayo in Rochester tomorrow for chemo for Mary. I don't pack a
pistol there. There is no posted prohibition at Mayo, but the mortal
threat at hand can't be neutralized with bullets. I'll walk the
skyways and subways while her IV drips, get my 3 miles done. She's
quite OK with that.

Do you at least keep a kubaton at hand when out wandering? They're
great close-to-combat defensive weapons.

Engaging in close hand-to-hand combat ain't on my dance card,
particularly at Mayo Clinic. Geez, I could get smacked with a
colostomy bag or something!

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:28:49 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:



I wonder how what the doctors would think of Don and his guns if Mary
should die on their watch.

TMT

Their opinion of me would be unaffected unless she died on their watch
because I shot her. You know that ain't gonna happen, because if I did
that she'd probably never speak to me again.

Matter of fact, several of the doctors are shooters.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:51:15 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:54:47 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Off to Mayo in Rochester tomorrow for chemo for Mary. I don't pack a
pistol there. There is no posted prohibition at Mayo, but the mortal
threat at hand can't be neutralized with bullets. I'll walk the
skyways and subways while her IV drips, get my 3 miles done. She's
quite OK with that.

Do you at least keep a kubaton at hand when out wandering? They're
great close-to-combat defensive weapons.

Engaging in close hand-to-hand combat ain't on my dance card,
particularly at Mayo Clinic. Geez, I could get smacked with a
colostomy bag or something!

Egad, what a nightmare! Oh, and the kubaton was for use on the subway
and skyways to and from Mayo, mon.

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:39:30 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Jan 14, 7:54*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:53:35 -0600, Don Foreman





wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:19:59 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Yeah, there is that. Visually showing potential perps that you can
defend yourself is a lot cheaper, if you can't just run away.


- Show quoted text -

As I said before, flashing a gun in a tense situation will get you
killed if the "potential prep" is a cop.

You are watching far too much television if you think that you as a
civilian will have assessed a potential situation accurately to know
who the good/bad guy is...contrary to popular opinion preps don't wear
black hats...and nor do good guys wear white ones.

TMT

Turn off your TV and listen up.

It is not difficult to assess threat scenarios fairly accurately with
a bit of study, training and practice. Predators use similar skills
to sense easy prey. Street smart/combat smart is not measured by IQ
tests. It's lizard-brain atavistic function not enhanced by mastery
of quantum physics or even graduation from 8th grade. It is definitely
intelligence even if nobody I know of has defined or figured out how
to measure. One definition of intelligence is the ability to adapt
and survive.

Military training and experience teach and develop observation skills
and instincts, building on the senses we all have but most
complacently ignore until they atrophy. But lacking such training,
experience and service to country, you can still pay attention.

It isn't necessary to assess each sit with 100% accuracy. It's only
necessary to know when to appropriately raise level of alertness and
perhaps start distancing from noticed potential threats. If the
loiterers that spooked you are in fact Mormon missionaries, choir boys
or Explorer scouts hangin' and rappin', false alarm and no harm
done.

A potential perp doesn't become an actual perp until he commits to
attack. Except for rare premeditated attacks on specific subjects as
in AZ and rape ambushes, sniffing and trial moves occur while making
the decision whether or not to attack. That's pinging to see if
apparently easy prey is in fact easy prey, like coyotes or hyenas
looking for the lame and weak in a herd they chase with killing and
subsequent lunch in mind.

If the person or group that raised your hackles (if you were paying
attention rather than being easy prey) tends to keep reducing the
distance between you and him/them in spite of your moves to increase
said distance, you might be well advised to pull the trigger on your
cellphone and call 911. Response time in your locale to a call of
"I'm feeling uneasy about how things are developing here"?

Best of luck with that, but at least you probably won't be shot by a
cop for deploying a cellphone -- unless the cellphone could be
mistaken for a pocket pistol .380 from 30 feet in low light and
high-adrenaline condx.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:27:46 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:



I wish Mary the best of luck....

TMT

Thank you for that.

The disease is incurable but so rare that they still can't offer a
prognosis. Mayo is a world leader in knowledge about this 8 per
million disease but little is known so prognoses are about impossible.
We'll see how things go. We're a small team, she and her team at Mayo
know I'm on her six.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:54:47 -0800, Larry Jaques

Off to Mayo in Rochester tomorrow for chemo for Mary. I don't pack a
pistol there. There is no posted prohibition at Mayo, but the mortal
threat at hand can't be neutralized with bullets. I'll walk the
skyways and subways while her IV drips, get my 3 miles done. She's
quite OK with that.

Do you at least keep a kubaton at hand when out wandering? They're
great close-to-combat defensive weapons.

Engaging in close hand-to-hand combat ain't on my dance card,
particularly at Mayo Clinic. Geez, I could get smacked with a
colostomy bag or something!

I grew up in Minnesota - my Dad grew up in Austin, and worked at the
Hormel plant as a snout bander when he was a teenager during the
depression. (Rochester isn't that far from Austin, IIRC.) We used to
go to Mayo regularly, to visit the museum and see the latest advances
in medical technology. Grandpa was a doctor. During the depression,
people used to pay him with chickens and stuff. Some rich patient
gave him a house for helping with the delivery of the rich guy's
kid.

Rochester, MN is probably one of the "safest" cities in the world
for stuff like just wandering around. "Minnesota Nice," you know. :-)

I haven't been there in quite some time - have they censored that sculpture
of Man that used to be on the front of the building? It was a three-story
tall bronze thing that came from DaVinci's diagram, or "The Visible Man"
model kit.

But he was (GASP!!!!) Naked! =:-O

Thanks,
Rich

Don Foreman wrote:

cellphone and call 911. Response time in your locale to a call of
"I'm feeling uneasy about how things are developing here"?

Usually about 20 minutes.

Thanks!
Rich

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:09:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


(which reminds me..half the cops I know carry Glock 19s..the rest 1911s)

Isn't fast-firing easier in a well-built weapon like a 19, Gunner?
Every time I hear a doubletap from a Glock, it sounds like a full-auto
startin' up, with no more than 1/4 of a second elapsed for both shots.
My ears twitch.

Shrug...last combat match I shot in, I was shooting 6 into the targets
in .73 seconds, and that was after the stroke. 1911 Series 70 with 220gr
SWC at 1000fps

I did the same course with a S&W 586 (357 Mag,)and did the targets in
..59 (but I fired the second target round after the first..which had been
the first Id fired in about a year after the stroke.

3 targets, shoulder to shoulder, 7 yrs

My best rate of fire was down in the .4s, before the stroke a year
before. Im back down to the low .5 seconds, but doubt Ill ever get down
to the .4s..Im getting old and slow. Shrug.

Any good quality arm, properly fitted to the shooter, and
practice..practice..practice is all thats required to shoot fast.

The kid simply sprayed and prayed

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 01:52:40 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

I'm not Gunner. I'm not looking for trouble.

Nor is Gunner. Its far far too easy to find, if I were looking.

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:36:40 -0500, "LibtardStupid" ihbfd@lhu wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

You are safer, period. Just showing a gun will head off the majority
of perp actions. They thrive on the unarmed and frozen frames of the
unwashed.

I don't remember where I saw the statistics, but supposedly there are
millions of unreported incidents per year that starts with a confrontation,
a handgun is produced by the intended victim and the perp runs away. No
shots fired, no police reports. If I ever have to produce a firearm I hope
it goes that way, I hate cleaning guns! I know, I just won't bring any of
those dirty cartridges!

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

Introduction

There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per
year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national
survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist
in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a
range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these
surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own
study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually.

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a
survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private
Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size
than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

There is one study, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS),
which in 1993, estimated 108,000 DGU's annually. Why the huge
discrepancy between this survey and fourteen others?


--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

Gunner Asch wrote:

Are you sure about that Johnny? You know me far too well to think Ive
never seen a corpse.

I've only seen three corpses (that I know of), and they were all very
freshly dead. One was a guy who set off an ejection seat in the hangar
when I was in the USAF, the second one was some motorcyclist who got
splatted by a drunk - I think I heard his death rattle - it's kind of
a sighing noise as he exhaled for the last time, and the third was my
Mom.

None of them was a pretty sight. And dammit, you've made me emote again.

Thanks,
Rich

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:05:35 -0800, "John R. Carroll"

You have seen it right here in this news group ar first hand. Gunner and
several others are particularly blood thirsty and brazen.
Anyone that can Kackle with joy in anticipation of dead American's rotting
from a noose hung from a lamp post probably hasn't seen a corpse, rotting
or otherwise and in any event is quite litterally insane.

"My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks."
Obama
to CEOs.
"They Bring a Knife.We Bring a Gun"
"Get in Their Faces!" Obama to his doorknockers.
"I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm
angry!" Obama to ACORN crowd.
"Punch back twice as hard!" Obama to his Obomunists.
"We talk to these folks.so I know whose ass to kick." Obama to the Left
on
the private sector.
"A Republican victory would mean hand to hand combat." Obama to his
Obomunists.
"It's time to Fight for it." Obama in a speech to his supporters.
"Punish your enemies." Obama to Latino supporters.
"I'm itching for a fight." Obama to Democrats in a speech.

Are you sure about that Johnny? You know me far too well to think Ive
never seen a corpse.

I wasn't raised racist, but those Mexican invaders and that Kenyan
Communist are doing their damnedest to change my mind about that.

Thanks,
Rich

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 00:43:36 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:



I haven't been there in quite some time - have they censored that sculpture
of Man that used to be on the front of the building? It was a three-story
tall bronze thing that came from DaVinci's diagram, or "The Visible Man"
model kit.

But he was (GASP!!!!) Naked! =:-O

Thanks,
Rich

He still is. Brrrrrr!

On Jan 15, 2:53*am, Don Foreman wrote:
...
Military training and experience teach and develop observation skills
and instincts, building on the senses we all have but most
complacently ignore until they atrophy. *But lacking such training,
experience and service to country, *you can still pay attention.
...

Well stated. That is one of the abilities people firmly deny unless
they have acquired it, like riding a motorcycle on ice. Train yourself
to focus outward and the rest is easy.

Here is a professional writer's statement of the opposite, a victim
mentality:
http://www.chucklorre.com/index.php?p=259
The whole collection is a fascinating look into the self-absorbed and
dysfunctional mindset that Lorre has turned into many successful
comedies.

jsw

On Jan 15, 5:05*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
...
* * There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per
year by law abiding citizens.

Half a dozen or so here. I never had to draw on anyone, the knowledge
that I'm not helpless instantly changed the tone of the discussion.
I've even given a guy some gas money on the chance his story was
legitimate.

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jan 15, 5:05*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
...
There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per
year by law abiding citizens.

Half a dozen or so here. I never had to draw on anyone, the knowledge
that I'm not helpless instantly changed the tone of the discussion.
I've even given a guy some gas money on the chance his story was
legitimate.

One time I was at a local fast-food joint, and was approached by a young
couple begging for lunch money. I said, "I'll go ya one better! I'll buy
you lunch! Come on!" I spent about five bucks buying them a couple of hot
dogs and stuff - I've heard that's a popular begging technique - "Got a
few bucks for gas?" "Hey, pull your car over, I'll even put it in for you!"
and they disappear.

But it did feel kinda good being able to buy lunch for a young couple who
were apparently actually needy.

Cheers!
Rich

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jan 15, 2:53*am, Don Foreman wrote:
...
Military training and experience teach and develop observation skills
and instincts, building on the senses we all have but most
complacently ignore until they atrophy. *But lacking such training,
experience and service to country, *you can still pay attention.

Well stated. That is one of the abilities people firmly deny unless
they have acquired it, like riding a motorcycle on ice. Train yourself
to focus outward and the rest is easy.

Here is a professional writer's statement of the opposite, a victim
mentality:
http://www.chucklorre.com/index.php?p=259
The whole collection is a fascinating look into the self-absorbed and
dysfunctional mindset that Lorre has turned into many successful
comedies.

Well, as long as you can sit in high-horse, ivory-tower, self-righteous
judgement of others, you don't have to look at yourself.

Thanks for sharing!
Rich

On Jan 15, 4:19*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Well, as long as you can sit in high-horse, ivory-tower, self-righteous
judgement of others, you don't have to look at yourself.

Thanks for sharing!
Rich-

http://www.chucklorre.com/index.php?p=254

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:09:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


(which reminds me..half the cops I know carry Glock 19s..the rest 1911s)

Isn't fast-firing easier in a well-built weapon like a 19, Gunner?
Every time I hear a doubletap from a Glock, it sounds like a full-auto
startin' up, with no more than 1/4 of a second elapsed for both shots.
My ears twitch.

Shrug...last combat match I shot in, I was shooting 6 into the targets
in .73 seconds, and that was after the stroke. 1911 Series 70 with 220gr
SWC at 1000fps

I did the same course with a S&W 586 (357 Mag,)and did the targets in
.59 (but I fired the second target round after the first..which had been
the first Id fired in about a year after the stroke.

3 targets, shoulder to shoulder, 7 yrs

My best rate of fire was down in the .4s, before the stroke a year
before. Im back down to the low .5 seconds, but doubt Ill ever get down
to the .4s..Im getting old and slow. Shrug.

Any good quality arm, properly fitted to the shooter, and
practice..practice..practice is all thats required to shoot fast.

The kid simply sprayed and prayed

Gunner


I do believe that ANY descent instructor would have been able to properly
assess this guy very quickly. And somebody might have disappeared him.

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:09:03 -0800, Larry Jaques

(which reminds me..half the cops I know carry Glock 19s..the rest 1911s)

Isn't fast-firing easier in a well-built weapon like a 19, Gunner?
Every time I hear a doubletap from a Glock, it sounds like a full-auto
startin' up, with no more than 1/4 of a second elapsed for both shots.
My ears twitch.

Shrug...last combat match I shot in, I was shooting 6 into the targets
in .73 seconds, and that was after the stroke. 1911 Series 70 with 220gr
SWC at 1000fps

I did the same course with a S&W 586 (357 Mag,)and did the targets in
.59 (but I fired the second target round after the first..which had been
the first Id fired in about a year after the stroke.

3 targets, shoulder to shoulder, 7 yrs

My best rate of fire was down in the .4s, before the stroke a year
before. Im back down to the low .5 seconds, but doubt Ill ever get down
to the .4s..Im getting old and slow. Shrug.

Any good quality arm, properly fitted to the shooter, and
practice..practice..practice is all thats required to shoot fast.

The kid simply sprayed and prayed

I do believe that ANY descent instructor would have been able to properly
assess this guy very quickly. And somebody might have disappeared him.

Problem is, there haven't been any decent instructors since the unions took
over the schools and turned them into propaganda mills that teach
"self-esteem" (Duh, I dunno how to add two and tow, but I feel real
good about myself, yup, yup, yup, yup!) instead of facts.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

Problem is, there haven't been any decent instructors since the unions took
over the schools and turned them into propaganda mills that teach
"self-esteem" (Duh, I dunno how to add two and tow, but I feel real
good about myself, yup, yup, yup, yup!) instead of facts.

Thanks,
Rich

A big A-men to that. We need to start at the top of the
Education pyramid with a house cleaning.
...lew...

On 2011-01-16, Lewis Hartswick wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Problem is, there haven't been any decent instructors since the unions took
over the schools and turned them into propaganda mills that teach
"self-esteem" (Duh, I dunno how to add two and tow, but I feel real
good about myself, yup, yup, yup, yup!) instead of facts.

Thanks,
Rich

A big A-men to that. We need to start at the top of the
Education pyramid with a house cleaning.

My older son is in 4th grade, and they have real homework, real tests,
real grades, etc and in fact, as far as I could tell, forming their
self esteem is not on top of the school's priorities. It was different
in first grade, but quickly changed after that.

Ignoramus24734 wrote:
On 2011-01-16, Lewis Hartswick wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Problem is, there haven't been any decent instructors since the unions
took over the schools and turned them into propaganda mills that teach
"self-esteem" (Duh, I dunno how to add two and tow, but I feel real
good about myself, yup, yup, yup, yup!) instead of facts.

A big A-men to that. We need to start at the top of the
Education pyramid with a house cleaning.

My older son is in 4th grade, and they have real homework, real tests,
real grades, etc and in fact, as far as I could tell, forming their
self esteem is not on top of the school's priorities. It was different
in first grade, but quickly changed after that.

Where at, if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks,
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

Where at, if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks,
Rich

I was going to ask the same. :-)
...lew...