Larry Jaques wrote:

However the rest of the group could simply have blown his **** away.
Based on photos and depictions of the scene..he attacked from the rear
wiith a "dangerous Glock 19 9mm" with a 30 round magazine in it.

(which reminds me..half the cops I know carry Glock 19s..the rest 1911s)

Isn't fast-firing easier in a well-built weapon like a 19, Gunner?
Every time I hear a doubletap from a Glock, it sounds like a full-auto
startin' up, with no more than 1/4 of a second elapsed for both shots.
My ears twitch.

Dunno, I've only fired one Glock (which I didn't care for) and plenty of
other HGs and all would do fast fire just fine. I'd think that a metal
frame gun would have the advantage there in the form of more weight to
control muzzle climb.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:08:39 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:04:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:47:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:


Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical left making assumptions and crying for
gun confiscation as a cure all/panacea.


And then we dust off ole Sparky?

I wonder how many liberals will contest this one, saying "He's sick.
You can't kill him. He didn't know what he was doing."


What fascinates me...is that given the numbers of legally armed citizens
in Aridzona..no one simply shot the *******.

Liberals, who don't generally own guns, flock to liberal speakers.
Conservatives, who -do- carry weapons, do not.

I'm not a conservative (or liberal) and I carry a weapon.

The point is that most liberals do not. I'll bet a few more get
licensed this week, though.


It's no surprise to me
that no other guns were present.

That is not the case, there was at least one armed civilian present,
indeed one who helped tackle the perp. He determined that drawing his
weapon was not the best option. We probably won't even know how many
other civilians present were armed and also determined that drawing
their weapons was not the best option.

Interesting. VERY interesting. Ever read the 4th chapter, Social
Proof, in Robert Cialdini's _Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion_?
It's a book I'd recommend for every living human to read, at least for
that chapter. It could save your life.

Anyway, if you're dying on the side of the road and there are hundreds
of people driving/walking by, don't cry "Somebody help me." They
probably won't. You have to ask someone directly to help before
they'll do it. Otherwise, to often, people will see others ignoring
you and they have a strong social proof that's the way to handle the
situation. They'll ignore you, too. Some think of legal ramifications
of helping you in the wrong way, others don't want to get involved
(especially if you're of a different race), some don't feel that they
have enough medical training, and others just don't care.

He cited all the neigbors (where else but Chicago?) of Catherine
Genovese who was raped and killed in front of all her fellow men.
All thought "Someone has already called the police so I won't."
http://tinyurl.com/4zmz6p3

I'm wondering how much social proof was involved in this shooting
case.


I was surprised that no cops were
anywhere near, though.

Presumably they were off hunting doughnuts, speeders or some other
worthy task.

Yeah, no doubt.


Or was this the result of it being a group of Democrats trying to look
PC?

You got it in one.

I understand that the lady did carry a weapon, so while she was a

Really? Amazing.

Democrat..she was a smart one. Unfortunately no one else in the crowd
apparently was as smart.

What do you want to bet that even if she'd seen him coming, she
wouldn't have been able to draw and fire before he did?

The perp always has the element of surprise.

Which is why terrorists always have the upper hand, and no amount of
money thrown at the problem will ever "fix it" and "make us safe",
despite the rhetoric tossed out by the DHS and gun banners. sigh
That's why I got a carry permit. When seconds count, the police are
only minutes (or hours) away.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:08:39 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Liberals, who don't generally own guns, flock to liberal speakers.
Conservatives, who -do- carry weapons, do not.

I'm not a conservative (or liberal) and I carry a weapon.

Perhaps you dont think of yourself as "conservative" but it would appear
from your posts..you are well Right of center.

More accurately I'm a "centrist extremist", my opinions on various
subjects are solidly to one side or the other, and in the center on
average.

"Tom Gardner" ihbfd@lhu wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

So, let's stop all free speech. That ought to fix it, right? Shut the
Internet down. Shut newsgroups down. Shut radio down. Shut newspapers
down.

And WTF? These law enforcement officers who are now opining politically.
Why aren't they addressing the fact that they let this guy be a bully and
terrorist for a long time, and nothing was done about it? They're law
enforcement officers, not political spokespeople. They were lousy at
police work, and I don't think they'd be any better at politics, although
they couldn't do any worse than the current crop.

Divisive political rhetoric? Do you know that "rhetoric" is the keyword
du jour with the press and government today, being used hundreds of times
by different people, just as if they were e mailed the keyword du jour by
some unknown director?

Steve


It seems this sheriff is diverting attention from his failure to do his
job. Next time I screw-up miserably I'll just blame Rush.

Don't you mean Bush?

Steve ;-)

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:55:10 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:08:39 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Liberals, who don't generally own guns, flock to liberal speakers.
Conservatives, who -do- carry weapons, do not.

I'm not a conservative (or liberal) and I carry a weapon.

Perhaps you dont think of yourself as "conservative" but it would appear
from your posts..you are well Right of center.

Of course..based on the current DNC members...Trotsky and Ingles were
right of center.....and they carried guns too.....

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII PREDICTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

THAT MORE POLITICIANS, LEFT AND RIGHT WILL CARRY GUNS IN THE FUTURE
................................

CARNACK THE MAGNIFICENT .......................

I predict civilian casualties from that action, especially if Cheney
gives weapon handling lessons.

I also predict that it won't save them from perps who already know how
to use a gun. This (crazy) guy shot from behind. Others (non-crazies)
would likely use rifles so they're neither caught nor exposed.

--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
-- Ronald Reagan

On 2011-01-11, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:08:39 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Liberals, who don't generally own guns, flock to liberal speakers.
Conservatives, who -do- carry weapons, do not.

I'm not a conservative (or liberal) and I carry a weapon.

Perhaps you dont think of yourself as "conservative" but it would appear
from your posts..you are well Right of center.

More accurately I'm a "centrist extremist", my opinions on various
subjects are solidly to one side or the other, and in the center on
average.

I describe myself as a conservative liberal.

I despise the Republican party due to Bush ruining the fiscal
discipline and starting a war of aggression, and due to its pandering
to extremists like Lochner and the Tea party, hypocrisy and
lying. "Billionaires on warpath who pull the strings of clueless
extremists", would be a fitting description.

This comes from someone who voted Republican previously.

In the unlikely event that the Republican party would realize the
errors of its ways, embrace fiscal discipline, eject extremist
kooks, and support the entire Consitution, I may vote Republican
again.

i

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

****, you guys have got a REALLY GREAT political system......and you
got Nukes too, truly frightening for the rest of the world....


Where they won't hesitate to blow up a building, to kill one
person...


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:01:38 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

On Jan 10, 2:22*pm, wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

****, you guys have got a REALLY GREAT political system......and you
got Nukes too, truly frightening for the rest of the world....

Andrew VK3BFA.
===========

Thanks for your concern.

I don't know how many of the group were around when John
Kennedy got shot in Dallas [Friday 22 Nov 1963], but the
same sound bites were pumped out then,the same panaceas
[mean looking gun & high capacity magazine bans] proposed,
the same calls for restrictions on political "hate" speech
made, and the same media crocodile tears shed.

Look for another Warren Commission to conclude he was a lone
gunman and acted alone. Also look for an assassination
[attempt] while he is in custody, ala Lee Harvey Oswald.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Jan 12, 3:50*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:01:38 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA



wrote:
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

****, you guys have got a REALLY GREAT political system......and you
got Nukes too, truly frightening for the rest of the world....

Andrew VK3BFA.

===========

Thanks for your concern.

I don't know how many of the group were around when John
Kennedy got shot in Dallas [Friday 22 Nov 1963], but the
same sound bites were pumped out then,the same panaceas
[mean looking gun & high capacity magazine bans] proposed,
the same calls for restrictions on political "hate" speech
made, and the same media crocodile tears shed.

Look for another Warren Commission to conclude he was a lone
gunman and acted alone. *Also look for an assassination
[attempt] while he is in custody, ala Lee Harvey Oswald.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Hey George - and thank you, from this distance its madness - you dont
like someones politics, you kill them.
You guys were/are supposed to be good example of tolerance, the rule
of law etc etc - (its in you constitution, go read it. they wrote it
so idiots could understand it)
And its a great pity the same crap just keeps on going on.. we dont
seemed to have progressed a whole lot in hte last 2,000 years.
You people have done so much good - whats going on, you fragmenting
into warring tribes or what?.

Andrew VK3BFA

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:01:38 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

****, you guys have got a REALLY GREAT political system......and you
got Nukes too, truly frightening for the rest of the world....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Good point. This is why it is EXTREMELY important that the average
American citizen be educated to see past the left/right paradigm to
the money powers that have stolen control of the US government. These
money powers seek no less then total control of the world government
they are trying to create. George Herbert Walker Bush even announced
as much in his famous "New World Order" references.

Witness the debate on this latest shooting. All seem to be caught up
in left vs. right issues. The problem is the conditions that created
the angry conditions leading to this shooting were the result of the
long standing work of the globalists behind the debasement of the US
economy.

Either that, or this guy is a CIA mind control dupe used to exacerbate
the erosion of civil liberties here in the US. They have used such
zombie dupes in the past.
Dave

"F. George McDuffee" wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:01:38 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

****, you guys have got a REALLY GREAT political system......and you
got Nukes too, truly frightening for the rest of the world....

Andrew VK3BFA.
===========

Thanks for your concern.

I don't know how many of the group were around when John
Kennedy got shot in Dallas [Friday 22 Nov 1963], but the
same sound bites were pumped out then,the same panaceas
[mean looking gun & high capacity magazine bans] proposed,
the same calls for restrictions on political "hate" speech
made, and the same media crocodile tears shed.


I was in elementary school. We were all pulled out of class, and
spent the rest of the day watching the news on the nationwide haywire
ATT long lines pieced together to feed every networked TV station in the
US.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

On Jan 12, 3:50 am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:01:38 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA



wrote:
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

****, you guys have got a REALLY GREAT political system......and you
got Nukes too, truly frightening for the rest of the world....

Andrew VK3BFA.

===========

Thanks for your concern.

I don't know how many of the group were around when John
Kennedy got shot in Dallas [Friday 22 Nov 1963], but the
same sound bites were pumped out then,the same panaceas
[mean looking gun & high capacity magazine bans] proposed,
the same calls for restrictions on political "hate" speech
made, and the same media crocodile tears shed.

Look for another Warren Commission to conclude he was a lone
gunman and acted alone. Also look for an assassination
[attempt] while he is in custody, ala Lee Harvey Oswald.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Hey George - and thank you, from this distance its madness - you dont
like someones politics, you kill them.
You guys were/are supposed to be good example of tolerance, the rule
of law etc etc - (its in you constitution, go read it. they wrote it
so idiots could understand it)
And its a great pity the same crap just keeps on going on.. we dont
seemed to have progressed a whole lot in hte last 2,000 years.
You people have done so much good - whats going on, you fragmenting
into warring tribes or what?.


This character had a history of causing trouble. The fact that he
was still on the loose shows that you can't coddle dangerous people and
leave them on the streets to cause more problems.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


This character had a history of causing trouble. The fact that he
was still on the loose shows that you can't coddle dangerous people and
leave them on the streets to cause more problems.




So who is going to decide (before hand, now!) who is dangerous and who is not?

Are you ready to face a psych evaluation - just to run around loose?

Are you willing to empower rent-a-cops (campus security) to be able to
commit someone for "mental instability"?

Are you REALLY sure you want to go there???


--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:00:23 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

On Jan 12, 3:50*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:01:38 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA



wrote:
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

****, you guys have got a REALLY GREAT political system......and you
got Nukes too, truly frightening for the rest of the world....

Andrew VK3BFA.

===========

Thanks for your concern.

I don't know how many of the group were around when John
Kennedy got shot in Dallas [Friday 22 Nov 1963], but the
same sound bites were pumped out then,the same panaceas
[mean looking gun & high capacity magazine bans] proposed,
the same calls for restrictions on political "hate" speech
made, and the same media crocodile tears shed.

Look for another Warren Commission to conclude he was a lone
gunman and acted alone. *Also look for an assassination
[attempt] while he is in custody, ala Lee Harvey Oswald.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Hey George - and thank you, from this distance its madness - you dont
like someones politics, you kill them.
You guys were/are supposed to be good example of tolerance, the rule
of law etc etc - (its in you constitution, go read it. they wrote it
so idiots could understand it)
And its a great pity the same crap just keeps on going on.. we dont
seemed to have progressed a whole lot in hte last 2,000 years.
You people have done so much good - whats going on, you fragmenting
into warring tribes or what?.

Andrew VK3BFA
=============

It appears to go deeper than that, and is not limited to the
US.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...-Salman-Taseer


One possible frame work is to observe that every
society/culture has a majority tacit/implicit "meta
narrative" [and several auxiliary ones depending on the
individuals age, ethnicity, gender, etc.] people keep
playing in their head to make/organize their world and spin
it into existence.

From time to time the existing meta narratives for
large/significant groups become increasingly unsynchronized
with/decoupled from actual/underlying conditions and
circumstances creating large amounts of individual
[unfocused and subliminal] angst, incongruence, and
desonance. {Translation: Large numbers of people are not
(intellectually/consciously) sure why, but they are scared
to death, mad as hell, and not going to take "it" anymore.}
Cue Twisted Sister "We're not gonna take it anymore" here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MotNtq41NDw

While there are typically and historically a number of
individual reactions to a failing meta narrative,
dispassionate contemplation and logical assessment are not
generally among them. The two predominate response groups
appear to be the "reactionaries," who wish to return to some
ill-identified "golden age" [that most likely never existed]
by changing the conditions and circumstances [back] to what
these were (although this is most likely impossible), and
the "heaven-stormers," who seek to correct all societal ills
and perfect mankind (e.g. the new soviet man) at a single
stroke, although this has never worked either.

In the U.S. this failure/divergence of the majority meta
narrative resulted in the Civil War [1861-1865] and very
nearly a repeat during the civil rights / Vietnam era
[1955-1968]. Although not as widely remembered, the era of
profound labor unrest, as exemplified by the IWW/Wobblies,
during the great depression is another example of a near
disaster.
http://www.iww.org/culture

We appear to be at another historical cusp where the
accepted/orthodox majority meta narrative no longer
adequately represents the actual conditions and
circumstances, and we have yet again the [highly unstable]
condition that McCauley describes:

"Was none who would be foremost
To lead such dire attack:
But those behind cried ‘Forward!’
And those before cried ‘Back!’"

Stanza L -- Horatius
http://www.englishverse.com/poems/horatius

We are indeed living in interesting times...


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

CaveLamb wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


This character had a history of causing trouble. The fact that he
was still on the loose shows that you can't coddle dangerous people and
leave them on the streets to cause more problems.



So who is going to decide (before hand, now!) who is dangerous and who is not?

Are you ready to face a psych evaluation - just to run around loose?

Are you willing to empower rent-a-cops (campus security) to be able to
commit someone for "mental instability"?

Are you REALLY sure you want to go there???


well, I've never made threats to kill people like he did, or have a
criminal record? A lot of the people who knew him were aparently afraid
of him. Do you want to go there?

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

John R. Carroll wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This character had a history of causing trouble. The fact that he
was still on the loose shows that you can't coddle dangerous people
and leave them on the streets to cause more problems.



So who is going to decide (before hand, now!) who is dangerous and
who is not?
Are you ready to face a psych evaluation - just to run around loose?

Are you willing to empower rent-a-cops (campus security) to be able to
commit someone for "mental instability"?

Are you REALLY sure you want to go there???

You know Richard, the first place this guy went to buy ammo (WalMart)
wouldn't sell to him.
You'd think that with WalMart's adoption of the "See and Say" program
encouraging people to report odd or suspicious behavior someone would have
phoned up DHS or even the local PD.


Yeah, I read that.
Then he straightened up long enough at the second Walmart.

So they call the cops on him.
But he hasn't done anything (YET you may say).

Then our litigious society is gonna bite back.
Or the nut case will remember who wouldn't sell him ammo?

Face it, guys, there is no simple solution here.
Although I see some of us promoting our pet agendas.
Just like the politico crowd.
(not you John )

This guy was psychotic.

True, there were several places he might have been nabbed - prior.

But he wasn't.

So how aggressive do you want the police powers to be on this?



--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

John R. Carroll wrote:

Hang with me for a moment, John?

Yeah, I read that.
Then he straightened up long enough at the second Walmart.

He learned something and applied the lesson.



That's the scariest part. He had something he wanted to do and
realized, if even for a few minutes, that he was losing it.


So they call the cops on him.
But he hasn't done anything (YET you may say).

Doesn't matter.

It DOES matter. When the cops show up it's kinda like a cold shot
of water in the face. OOPS! Yes sir, No Sir, three bags full, Sir.
ANYbody will straighten up for them.


They can put a pshyc hold on him and send him off for evaluation.

At that point, this guy might well have had his weapon(s) confiscated
permanently under existing Federal law and not been elgible to purchase
again.
Not legally anyway and he would be in the system.


And that means what to HIM?

NADA!

Or maybe - Hurry!


Face it, guys, there is no simple solution here.

I've never said there was.
Failing to honestly face a problem, however, is the surest way to avoid
"solving" anything.

Although I see some of us promoting our pet agendas.
Just like the politico crowd.
(not you John )

Were I too actually have a real agenda, it would be to find a way to get
people to quit focussing on the meaningless at the expense of the critical.
Neither facts or recitations of history seem to matter much.

I'd join that party.
But first you have to get the major politicians to throttle back.
AND the news media.
(Or maybe the other way around?)

I think all of the pee party posturing with weapons and threats is
completely irresponsible at best and possibly actionable in many instances.
What they, along with the right wing noise machine have ginned up lends
legitamacy to the notion that American citizens have a responsibility to
resolve governance issues with guns and violence if what happens at the
ballot box doesn't suit them. They do this while wrapping themselves in the
American flag.

You have seen it right here in this news group ar first hand. Gunner and
several others are particularly blood thirsty and brazen.
Anyone that can Kackle with joy in anticipation of dead American's rotting
from a noose hung from a lamp post probably hasn't seen a corpse, rotting or
otherwise and in any event is quite litterally insane.
The delusion that this would be the result a "popular" uprising is just an
insane delusion. The belief that America's uniformed military would support
or encourage this sort of thing is sick and demonstrates beyond question the
lack of respect and or understanding some people have for the integrity of
our Armed forces, the American populace and America's Constitutionally
established institutions.


This guy was psychotic.

He was. I wouldn't argue that for a minute and haven't heard a single person
try. Have you?
He was also immersed in an environment that fed his insanity. That such was
created and flourishes is a lot more important that who d

Agreed.

id what or why.
There is no excuse or reason as far as I'm concerned.
Who is doing what and why is only relevant when you consider corrective
practice.

Anything for the safety of "the children"?
(With apologies to Christina Green)

Well, common sense would probably have prevented this completely.
A couple of uniformed officers on the scene would almost certainly have put
the guy off just by being there.
Had that not been the case, they would have spotted him early. He stood out
like a sore thumb.



I wasn't there. so I don't know how he looked.

And if I had been, with all those people crowded around, I doubt there would
have been a clean shot...


I'll tell you what his whole thing has done for me.
I've decided to get my a CHL.
(A significant change of heart here)
And have my S.O. qualify as well.

Because whatever the fallout of all of this will eventually be...

It WON'T corral the true crazies.



--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:59:06 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Jan 10, 12:58*am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

The sad thing is that 50-60% of the US population is quite centrist. The
reality is that the only two viable (for the foreseeable future)
political parties have been overrun by the 20-25% of extremists in each
"wing".-

And further, the sadder part is that the wingers on both ends of the
spectrum preach violence. I see less of it coming from the left, but
I'm sure it's there. As long as we have Sarah Palin publishing maps
with crosshairs (of course now she's running away from that) and
Sharon Angle talking about "Second Amendment options," and Gunner's
leaders with their "great cull," we are in serious trouble.

And then there's the uber-violent bangers who have no particular
political or religious zeolotry beyond their gang affiliation.

Those who abhor violence might do well to focus on dealing with
violence rather than try to form associations between nutcases and
whatever political persuasions they dislike.

John R. Carroll wrote:

And if I had been, with all those people crowded around, I doubt
there would have been a clean shot...

A cop would just have grabbed him.


On what charge?
Being an asshole?




I'll tell you what his whole thing has done for me.
I've decided to get my a CHL.
(A significant change of heart here)
And have my S.O. qualify as well.

I think you both might end up feeling silly.

I doubt it.
Ask Karl if he feels silly carrying?




Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

CaveLamb wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

I don't carry often, but I don't feel silly when I do. As an old man,
I feel safer with a popper in me pocket. It may be an illusion, but
it's a comforting illusion. We old farts like such comforts as we can
find. I have no illusion that I'm not an old fart, albeit marksman.

I'm no gunslinger. My carry is a pocket pistol in a pocket holster.
It takes me a small fraction of a week to draw my pistol from pocket,
so I pay attention to what's happenin' around me. I won't win any
quickdraw contests but I'm not a soldier, LEO or gunslinger. Payin'
attention is my primary defense. I'll avoid what I can, have me
pistol in hand for what I can't avoid. I do not expect to ever shoot
anyone and fervently hope that I'll never have to. I'm a vet, been
there and done that.

I'll never win any bullseye competitions with my nearly 70-year-old
eyes, but I do OK with doubletaps and Mozambique drills at 21 feet.
The silhouette targets I shoot wouldn't be drawing social security.


Sir!

I'm not far behind you. I'll be 61 in April.

I took my girlfriend out to the local range last week (Red River Firearms)
(just before all this happened).
For a California girl, never having had a hand weapon in hand before, I think
she did ok. She was slow, granted, but cut paper every time.
And she enjoyed it. (oh baby!)

I only got to shoot two or three times (out of 100 rounds).
My (VA!) glasses couldn't make out the rings, so I shot blind.

My last was ok. Six rounds, nine seconds, all black - 15 feet.
(That with my Bersa Thunder .380)

I'm not Gunner. I'm not looking for trouble.
I pay attention to what's going on around me - and I'll leave if need be.

I just don't want to be a victim if I can help it...

And I don't want to see my loved ones hurt - if I can help it.


And that is the proper attitude.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 01:30:22 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

I don't carry often, but I don't feel silly when I do. As an old man,
I feel safer with a popper in me pocket. It may be an illusion, but
it's a comforting illusion. We old farts like such comforts as we can
find. I have no illusion that I'm not an old fart, albeit marksman.

You are safer, period. Just showing a gun will head off the majority
of perp actions. They thrive on the unarmed and frozen frames of the
unwashed.


I'm no gunslinger. My carry is a pocket pistol in a pocket holster.
It takes me a small fraction of a week to draw my pistol from pocket,

And who says you have to -draw- to shoot a rapidly approaching perp?
(Mary or you could sew up the hole, eh?) If you have time, you'll
naturally draw it, but, in a pinch...


so I pay attention to what's happenin' around me. I won't win any
quickdraw contests but I'm not a soldier, LEO or gunslinger. Payin'
attention is my primary defense. I'll avoid what I can, have me
pistol in hand for what I can't avoid. I do not expect to ever shoot
anyone and fervently hope that I'll never have to. I'm a vet, been
there and done that.

That's what counts. Paying attention is 9/10 of the battle. It gives
you a chance to avoid or escape without battle as well as giving you
the necessary information about your surroundings to make yourself
safer if an encounter is inevitable.


I'll never win any bullseye competitions with my nearly 70-year-old
eyes, but I do OK with doubletaps and Mozambique drills at 21 feet.
The silhouette targets I shoot wouldn't be drawing social security.

This is good. Silhouettes and other illegals shouldn't be on the dole,
anyway. (though silhouettes don't eat much 'n never use food stamps.)

--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand

On Jan 12, 12:02*am, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:59:06 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck





wrote:
On Jan 10, 12:58*am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

The sad thing is that 50-60% of the US population is quite centrist. The
reality is that the only two viable (for the foreseeable future)
political parties have been overrun by the 20-25% of extremists in each
"wing".-

And further, the sadder part is that the wingers on both ends of the
spectrum preach violence. I see less of it coming from the left, but
I'm sure it's there. As long as we have Sarah Palin publishing maps
with crosshairs (of course now she's running away from that) and
Sharon Angle talking about "Second Amendment options," and Gunner's
leaders with their "great cull," we are in serious trouble.

And then there's the uber-violent bangers who have no particular
political or religious zeolotry beyond their gang affiliation.

Those who abhor violence might do well to focus on dealing with
violence rather than try to form associations between nutcases and
whatever political persuasions they dislike.

And even though we're all "pretty sure" that Gunner's talk of a "great
cull" is all just fantasy, it raises a couple of questions:

1) How do we _KNOW_ it's just fantasy? How do we know that his talk
should not be taken seriously and that we shouldn't drop a dime to the
FBI on him?

2) Is a person who obviously derives great pleasure from such
fantasies mentally stable? Should a person who talks incessantly about
violent acts, be they real or fantastic, be allowed to own firearms?
Where do you draw the line?

Just to be perfectly clear, this isn't aimed at Gunner alone. He is,
however a convenient example for discussion's sake.

John R. Carroll wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:
And if I had been, with all those people crowded around, I doubt
there would have been a clean shot...
A cop would just have grabbed him.
On what charge?
Being an asshole?

Well doggies...
How 'bout that?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...nt;cbsCarousel


(CBS/AP) TUCSON, Ariz. - The suspect in a deadly Arizona shooting ran a red
light and was stopped by a wildlife officer less than three hours before the
attack that wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and killed six others.

The Arizona Game and Fish Department says an officer stopped Jared Loughner at
about 7:30 a.m. Saturday.

The officer took Loughner's driver's license and vehicle registration
information. Dispatchers checked the information and found no outstanding
warrants on Loughner or his vehicle. He was given a verbal warning and released.

Though the timeline is not clear, police say Loughner also had an altercation
with his father and fled into the desert that morning.

The sheriff's deputies who swarmed the Loughners' house removed what they
describe as evidence Jared Loughner was targeting Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who
doctors said Tuesday was breathing on her own for the first time after taking a
bullet to the forehead. Among the handwritten notes was one with the words "Die,
bitch," which authorities told The Associated Press they believe was a reference
to Giffords.

John R. Carroll wrote:
..
A cop would just have grabbed him.
On what charge?
Being an asshole?
Well doggies...
How 'bout that?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...nt;cbsCarousel



I'm not sure I understand your point.
It has nothing to do with my suggestion that uniformed officers at the meet
and greet could have prevented the incident.
They would have been looking at anyone that behaved the way this guy did at
the event and might well have snagged him.
That would have been why they were there, not to write traffic tickets.

This guy wasn't just nuts, he was OBVIOUSLY nuts.
People did notice that at the time.



Maybe. At least it sure looks that way in hind-sight.

THAT'S the point.



--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

On Jan 9, 10:22*pm, wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

Well said.

On Jan 9, 11:47*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:02:34 -0600, Boris wrote:

snipThat's all we need now, libtards who want to know what the poor killer
was thinking and why he would do such a horrible thing, instead of
dusting off "ole Sparky" and letting him take a seat.

snip
==========
It all depends on how you view the problem, i.e. as a one
off or as a possible trend in an increasingly polarized
society.

I for one hope the authorities immediately run tox scans
[blood and hair] for *EVERYTHING* including heavy metal
contamination and bad dope, then run a complete CAT/PET scan
of his head to determine if any organic abnormalities such a
tumors or diseases such as syphilis are present.

Then after organic causes are eliminated [or possibly
concurrently] do a complete psych work-up and life style
analysis for possible profiling. *

{For a nightmare scenario imagine that some group has
learned how to use a combination of drugs, sex and hypnosis
to create programmed assassins with no thought of self
preservation from suitable individuals, ala Charlie Manson.
It is only a short step to domestic suicide bombers AKA
organic smart bombs *-- some assembly required. *Even worse
would be to discover that some combination of chemicals in
junk foods and/or the environment [insecticides?] eliminate
the normal drive for self preservation and promote hyper
aggression, ala steroids/roid rage in some people}

What ever the outcome of the tests and evaluations he must
never be allowed loose.

Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical left making assumptions and crying for
gun confiscation as a cure all/panacea.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

You are showing a bias George..shame on you. ;)

You forgot to add..

"Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical right making assumptions and crying for
gun proliferation as a cure all/panacea. "

TMT

On Jan 10, 12:59*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 10, 12:58*am, "Pete C." wrote:





wrote:

What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

In this case the perp was captured alive so there is a CHANCE what
causes this one to go off may be established - kinda hard to do when
they kill themselves or are gunned down by LEOs

Pray for the USA.

The sad thing is that 50-60% of the US population is quite centrist. The
reality is that the only two viable (for the foreseeable future)
political parties have been overrun by the 20-25% of extremists in each
"wing".-

And further, the sadder part is that the wingers on both ends of the
spectrum preach violence. I see less of it coming from the left, but
I'm sure it's there. As long as we have Sarah Palin publishing maps
with crosshairs (of course now she's running away from that) and
Sharon Angle talking about "Second Amendment options," and Gunner's
leaders with their "great cull," we are in serious trouble.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You see much less of it coming from the Left...much less.

That is why the Right is now busy making excuses for its behavior.

And the American people can see right through their lies.

TMT

On Jan 10, 4:04*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:47:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee





wrote:

Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical left making assumptions and crying for
gun confiscation as a cure all/panacea.

And then we dust off ole Sparky?
==========

Possibly...

For one thing think of the costs involved. *Because of the
US byzantine appeals system, it now costs more to ice a cold
blooded killer than the keep him locked up for life, even if
he is 22 years old.

For another thing, it would be very helpful for profilers,
forensic psychiatrists, security specialists, etc. to have a
real live captive shooter to observe and talk to, even if he
is just another "bad ass looser," was on bad dope or has
some sort of a brain tumor. *"Long-haired pot smoking hippy"
is not much more to build a
preventative/predictave/protective program on than "ban all
guns."

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)

What fascinates me...is that given the numbers of legally armed citizens
in Aridzona..no one simply shot the *******.

Or was this the result of it being a group of Democrats trying to look
PC?

I understand that the lady did carry a weapon, so while she was a
Democrat..she was a smart one. *Unfortunately no one else in the crowd
apparently was as smart.

Shrug

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
* * * * * * * * * * *Robert A. Heinlein- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or maybe carrying a gun doesn't make society safer?

TMT

On Jan 10, 5:06*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 1/10/2011 5:04 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:





On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:47:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee
*wrote:

Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical left making assumptions and crying for
gun confiscation as a cure all/panacea.

And then we dust off ole Sparky?
==========

Possibly...

For one thing think of the costs involved. *Because of the
US byzantine appeals system, it now costs more to ice a cold
blooded killer than the keep him locked up for life, even if
he is 22 years old.

For another thing, it would be very helpful for profilers,
forensic psychiatrists, security specialists, etc. to have a
real live captive shooter to observe and talk to, even if he
is just another "bad ass looser," was on bad dope or has
some sort of a brain tumor. *"Long-haired pot smoking hippy"
is not much more to build a
preventative/predictave/protective program on than "ban all
guns."

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)

What fascinates me...is that given the numbers of legally armed citizens
in Aridzona..no one simply shot the *******.

Or was this the result of it being a group of Democrats trying to look
PC?

I understand that the lady did carry a weapon, so while she was a
Democrat..she was a smart one. *Unfortunately no one else in the crowd
apparently was as smart.

Shrug

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
* * * * * * * * * * * Robert A. Heinlein

It is a shame you were not there Gummy, I can see it now, you standing
there with a pile of casings at your feet, and the congress woman with a
through and through wound. *esp. with a dead perp... *it sure would have
been quieter around here.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why wasn't he?

I thought Gummer was the know all see all of the Right.

Did our Savior fail us?

TMT

On Jan 10, 5:25*pm, Wes wrote:
wrote:
What I have feared in the USA, based on the highly polarized political
rhetoric I've heard here and on other newsgroups has happened, in a
small (relatively) way in Tuscon yesterday. The attack on an American
congresswoman, and the death of a federal judge and 5 others,
including an innocent 9 year old girl, is NOT what America wants to be
known for.
The divisive political rhetoric can so easily trip an off-balance
person to do horrific things - and put many otherwise functional
people off-balance - making these occurrences more likely.

By that logic Dick Durbin and Chuck Schumer would have died years ago by lead poisioning
and the left would have taken out GWB and Cheney. *

Please try not to get swept up by the hysteria and finger pointing of the moment. *A nut
went off, nothing more. *Three in the crowd stopped his killing spree from reports. *Like
flight 93, it put a bit of a good spin on a horrible situation.

Wes

It is more than just a nut going off...that is what you folks from the
Right want us to believe so you can continue to do business as usual.

New gun laws are coming...and your irresponsibility with guns made it
happen.

TMT

On Jan 10, 5:49*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:04:08 -0800, Gunner Asch

wrote:

snipI understand that the lady did carry a weapon, so while she was a
Democrat..she was a smart one. *Unfortunately no one else in the crowd
apparently was as smart.

Shrug

Gunner

========
There are too many loose ends, and the timing of this
incident is far too convenient in the political/budget
cycle, as if it was intended to diver attention away from
the ongoing U.S. socio-economic crisis by creating another
2nd amendment uproar.

One of the many things about this that is red flag is that
only the Congresswoman was a head shot, and it appears
everyone else was a center of mass body hit or collateral
[unaimed] damage. *This appears to indicate that the perp
assumed she might be wearing bullet resistant clothing.
Does anyone know if in fact she was wearing or has worn
police grade body armor?

If so, this goes far beyond the level of impulsive
spontaneous outburst and indicates a level of research and
planning not consistent with his apparent mental
capacity/smarts -- IOW he appears to have been one of the
dullest knifes in the drawer, and apparently had/has
extremely limited social/planning skills. *Other questions
include how was he earning a living and how did he afford a
high capacity pistol? *Anyone know what weapon he used and
what these retail for? *Where did he bought it and if he
paid cash?

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

He used a 9mm Glock.

TMT

On Jan 10, 6:37*pm, Boris Kapusta wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:47:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee





wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:55:57 -0600, Boris Kapusta
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:47:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:02:34 -0600, Boris Kapusta
wrote:
snip
That's all we need now, libtards who want to know what the poor killer
was thinking and why he would do such a horrible thing, instead of
dusting off "ole Sparky" and letting him take a seat.
snip
==========
It all depends on how you view the problem, i.e. as a one
off or as a possible trend in an increasingly polarized
society.

I for one hope the authorities immediately run tox scans
[blood and hair] for *EVERYTHING* including heavy metal
contamination and bad dope, then run a complete CAT/PET scan
of his head to determine if any organic abnormalities such a
tumors or diseases such as syphilis are present.

Then after organic causes are eliminated [or possibly
concurrently] do a complete psych work-up and life style
analysis for possible profiling. *

{For a nightmare scenario imagine that some group has
learned how to use a combination of drugs, sex and hypnosis
to create programmed assassins with no thought of self
preservation from suitable individuals, ala Charlie Manson.
It is only a short step to domestic suicide bombers AKA
organic smart bombs *-- some assembly required. *Even worse
would be to discover that some combination of chemicals in
junk foods and/or the environment [insecticides?] eliminate
the normal drive for self preservation and promote hyper
aggression, ala steroids/roid rage in some people}

What ever the outcome of the tests and evaluations he must
never be allowed loose.

Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical left making assumptions and crying for
gun confiscation as a cure all/panacea.

And then we dust off ole Sparky?
==========

Possibly...

For one thing think of the costs involved. *Because of the
US byzantine appeals system, it now costs more to ice a cold
blooded killer than the keep him locked up for life, even if
he is 22 years old.

For another thing, it would be very helpful for profilers,
forensic psychiatrists, security specialists, etc. to have a
real live captive shooter to observe and talk to, even if he
is just another "bad ass looser," was on bad dope or has
some sort of a brain tumor. *"Long-haired pot smoking hippy"
is not much more to build a
preventative/predictave/protective program on than "ban all
guns."

Correction. Long haired, pot smoking, extremely liberal, atheist,
Constitution hating, Communist Manifesto reading, *flag burning
loving, dope head hippy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hmm...sounds like a conservative winger to me.

TMT

On Jan 10, 6:51*pm, Boris Kapusta wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:04:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

What fascinates me...is that given the numbers of legally armed citizens
in Aridzona..no one simply shot the *******.

Or was this the result of it being a group of Democrats trying to look
PC?

I understand that the lady did carry a weapon, so while she was a
Democrat..she was a smart one. *Unfortunately no one else in the crowd
apparently was as smart.

Shrug

Gunner

Not fascinating at all. This was a libtard who would perish in any
kind of a *fair fight. He managed to blow through a magazine quickly
because he had the element of surprise.

Reports from the shooting indicate that the shooter never counted on
being knocked down, and flailed his legs and wrists about until enough
people subdued him, libtard spasms and flailings, and all. Is it any
wonder his wrists went limp when it came time to reload?

LOL...if you know so much why weren't you there to stop it with your
little gun?

You would be entertaining if you were not so stupid.

TMT

On Jan 10, 9:07*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:51:58 -0800, Larry Jaques





wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:04:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:47:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical left making assumptions and crying for
gun confiscation as a cure all/panacea.

And then we dust off ole Sparky?
==========

Possibly...

For one thing think of the costs involved. *Because of the
US byzantine appeals system, it now costs more to ice a cold
blooded killer than the keep him locked up for life, even if
he is 22 years old.

For another thing, it would be very helpful for profilers,
forensic psychiatrists, security specialists, etc. to have a
real live captive shooter to observe and talk to, even if he
is just another "bad ass looser," was on bad dope or has
some sort of a brain tumor. *"Long-haired pot smoking hippy"
is not much more to build a
preventative/predictave/protective program on than "ban all
guns."

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)

What fascinates me...is that given the numbers of legally armed citizens
in Aridzona..no one simply shot the *******.

Liberals, who don't generally own guns, flock to liberal speakers.
Conservatives, who -do- carry weapons, do not. It's no surprise to me
that no other guns were present. *I was surprised that no cops were
anywhere near, though.

Or was this the result of it being a group of Democrats trying to look
PC?

You got it in one.

I understand that the lady did carry a weapon, so while she was a

Really? *Amazing.

Democrat..she was a smart one. *Unfortunately no one else in the crowd
apparently was as smart.

What do you want to bet that even if she'd seen him coming, she
wouldn't have been able to draw and fire before he did?

If you carry a weapon in your purse..your draw time is in
..well..minutes.

However the rest of the group could simply have blown his **** away.
Based on photos and depictions of the scene..he attacked from the rear
wiith a "dangerous Glock 19 9mm" with a 30 round magazine in it.

(which reminds me..half the cops I know carry Glock 19s..the rest 1911s)

And on a further note..that nutball in charge of the Pima County SO.....

"Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in
Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio
personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was
informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well
managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further
pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more
problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works
for Pima County."

And when is that Pima County sheriff going to be booted out of office?

I just watched the clown on an interview with ABC or similar..an utter
idiot....

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/201...dismiss-loughn...

http://minx.cc/?post=310494

#
Catseye says:
January 10, 2011 at 3:58 pm

There is a term which may apply here if this is true it’s “Dangerously
Incompetent”.
#
cameo says:
January 10, 2011 at 4:34 pm

His mother (the shooter's) *works for the Pima County Board of
Supervisors…so it’s definitely plausible.

Id have to say that Sheriff Dupnick is not long for his office....
--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
* * * * * * * * * * *Robert A. Heinlein- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He will be reelected.

Not everyone is as stupid as you are Gummer.

TMT

On Jan 10, 8:51*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:04:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:





On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:47:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Until a complete physical and psych workup is done, we are
just like the radical left making assumptions and crying for
gun confiscation as a cure all/panacea.

And then we dust off ole Sparky?
==========

Possibly...

For one thing think of the costs involved. *Because of the
US byzantine appeals system, it now costs more to ice a cold
blooded killer than the keep him locked up for life, even if
he is 22 years old.

For another thing, it would be very helpful for profilers,
forensic psychiatrists, security specialists, etc. to have a
real live captive shooter to observe and talk to, even if he
is just another "bad ass looser," was on bad dope or has
some sort of a brain tumor. *"Long-haired pot smoking hippy"
is not much more to build a
preventative/predictave/protective program on than "ban all
guns."

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)

What fascinates me...is that given the numbers of legally armed citizens
in Aridzona..no one simply shot the *******.

Liberals, who don't generally own guns, flock to liberal speakers.
Conservatives, who -do- carry weapons, do not. It's no surprise to me
that no other guns were present. *I was surprised that no cops were
anywhere near, though.

Or was this the result of it being a group of Democrats trying to look
PC?

You got it in one.

I understand that the lady did carry a weapon, so while she was a

Really? *Amazing.

Democrat..she was a smart one. *Unfortunately no one else in the crowd
apparently was as smart.

What do you want to bet that even if she'd seen him coming, she
wouldn't have been able to draw and fire before he did?

--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Ronald Reagan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wonder if the next shooting will be a Republican Congressman
shooting one of his crazy ass followers at a public gathering because
he thought the guy was reaching for a gun.

TMT

On Jan 10, 11:53*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote

And on a further note..that nutball in charge of the Pima County SO......

"Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in
Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio
personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff's Office was
informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well
managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further
pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more
problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works
for Pima County."

*My daughter was being threatened by gang girls in her junior year in
high school. *For the last three months of the school year, we home schooled
her. *Then for her final year, she went to a new satellite school for
talented students.

When I went to police and school officials and told them of the threats to
her, they said, "If the girls do anything to her, they will be in trouble.."
Excuse me. *Do I have to wait until she is maimed or killed before you will
do anything? *Apparently so.

There were two girls. *The brother of one was killed by a homeowner in a
home invasion. *The brother of the other was killed at a convenience store
in a drive-by. *They were serious gangsters.

At times, you can not defend yourself without letting the perpetrators
injure you. *And, as with the Arizona shooter, there is nothing that police
or teachers or the system can or will do to the perpetrator who is
terrorizing people and acting a jerk.

But, boy, once they kill some people, now they're in trouble!

Trouble is that people are unnecessarily dead.

Steve

That is the way it is...as it should be.

The alternative is that if you act first, you are the problem.

So you wait until they become the problem.

Kind of like what we are doing with Gummer and Tom here.

Waiting...and watching...

TMT

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

You are safer, period. Just showing a gun will head off the majority
of perp actions. They thrive on the unarmed and frozen frames of the
unwashed.

I don't remember where I saw the statistics, but supposedly there are
millions of unreported incidents per year that starts with a confrontation,
a handgun is produced by the intended victim and the perp runs away. No
shots fired, no police reports. If I ever have to produce a firearm I hope
it goes that way, I hate cleaning guns! I know, I just won't bring any of
those dirty cartridges!

On Jan 12, 9:36*pm, "LibtardStupid" ihbfd@lhu wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

...

You are safer, period. *Just showing a gun will head off the majority
of perp actions. They thrive on the unarmed and frozen frames of the
unwashed.

I don't remember where I saw the statistics, but supposedly there are
millions of unreported incidents per year that starts with a confrontation,
a handgun is produced by the intended victim and the perp runs away. *No
shots fired, no police reports. *If I ever have to produce a firearm I hope
it goes that way, I hate cleaning guns! *I know, I just won't bring any of
those dirty cartridges!

Conservative children dreaming.

If you pull a gun on someone like me, you better damn well pull the
trigger...because I will.

Try pulling a gun on a cop and see if he runs away.

TMT

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:


And further, the sadder part is that the wingers on both ends of the
spectrum preach violence. I see less of it coming from the left, but
I'm sure it's there. As long as we have Sarah Palin publishing maps
with crosshairs (of course now she's running away from that) and
Sharon Angle talking about "Second Amendment options," and Gunner's
leaders with their "great cull," we are in serious trouble.

And then there's the uber-violent bangers who have no particular
political or religious zeolotry beyond their gang affiliation.

Those who abhor violence might do well to focus on dealing with
violence rather than try to form associations between nutcases and
whatever political persuasions they dislike.

And even though we're all "pretty sure" that Gunner's talk of a "great
cull" is all just fantasy, it raises a couple of questions:

1) How do we _KNOW_ it's just fantasy? How do we know that his talk
should not be taken seriously and that we shouldn't drop a dime to the
FBI on him?

2) Is a person who obviously derives great pleasure from such
fantasies mentally stable? Should a person who talks incessantly about
violent acts, be they real or fantastic, be allowed to own firearms?
Where do you draw the line?

Just to be perfectly clear, this isn't aimed at Gunner alone. He is,
however a convenient example for discussion's sake.

1) We? If you think someone should call the FBI and report Gunner's
great cull posts, please lead from in front and do so forthwith. I
hope it makes you feel better, and I'll about guarantee that you'll
find it educational. Please keep us posted on your progress,
experiences and frustrations.

2) The line is quite clear: freedom of speech that you might find
offensive is protected by the 1st amendment. Fantasy violence is not
illegal nor is it prima facie evidence of mental defect. There are
video games available to teenagers that portray (and perhaps
encourage) violence far more vividly and graphically than anything
Gunner has ever posted on usenet in his best efforts to shock readers.

With very limited exceptions, law of the land does not permit legal
action against another based on what he says or what others think he
might do.

If you abhor violence then focus on miscreants that do violence rather
than those whom you think might based upon how you react to what they
post on usenet.

Yer note about "not aimed at Gunner alone" duly noted. Target moi?

I am not zeolously either liberal or conservative and my religious
beliefs (or absence thereof) are none of yer beeswax. I am a gentle
and nurturing man, but also a vet and a realist. I carry a gun some
days. He who would mug or rape this senior gentleman will experience
explosively violent lethal response beyond anything he ever imagined.
I may look like easy prey, low hanging fruit for predators... but I'm
not and they sense that. Predators are street smart, focus on easy
prey. I am not a vigilante. Could be, might become so if Mary dies
before I do.

**** happens, life is fair now and then, here and there ... not fair
if Mar dies before me but life is hardly ever fair.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:48:45 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Jan 12, 9:36*pm, "LibtardStupid" ihbfd@lhu wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

...

You are safer, period. *Just showing a gun will head off the majority
of perp actions. They thrive on the unarmed and frozen frames of the
unwashed.

I don't remember where I saw the statistics, but supposedly there are
millions of unreported incidents per year that starts with a confrontation,
a handgun is produced by the intended victim and the perp runs away. *No
shots fired, no police reports. *If I ever have to produce a firearm I hope
it goes that way, I hate cleaning guns! *I know, I just won't bring any of
those dirty cartridges!

Conservative children dreaming.

If you pull a gun on someone like me, you better damn well pull the
trigger...because I will.

If by "someone like me" you mean an ill-spoken anonymous usenet troll,
I won't draw or fire and you won't pull such tiny trigger as you may
be able to find thru the hole in your pocket.

Try pulling a gun on a cop and see if he runs away.

Your violent fantasies have zero correllation with my behavior.