RCM only

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 11:41:52 -0600, Boris Kapusta
wrote:

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama has set his New Year's resolution
high for 2011: repair the struggling economy.

In his weekly radio and Internet address on Saturday, the vacationing
president said recent data showed the economic recovery was gaining
traction even as millions of Americans are still out of work.

"Our most important task now is to keep that recovery going," Obama
said. "As president, that's my commitment to you: to do everything I
can to make sure our economy is growing, creating jobs, and
strengthening our middle class. That's my resolution for the coming
year."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7000NB20110101

Anyone want to bet he pulls a Douchebag and drops the ball again for
the third year in a row?...

Note how he's saying "Republicans are ready to lead..."? It appears
that he's trying to set up the REP party to take the blame for
whatever else he pulls in the near future.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On Jan 1, 4:35*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
RCM only

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 11:41:52 -0600, Boris Kapusta





wrote:
(Reuters) - President Barack Obama has set his New Year's resolution
high for 2011: repair the struggling economy.

In his weekly radio and Internet address on Saturday, the vacationing
president said recent data showed the economic recovery was gaining
traction even as millions of Americans are still out of work.

"Our most important task now is to keep that recovery going," Obama
said. "As president, that's my commitment to you: to do everything I
can to make sure our economy is growing, creating jobs, and
strengthening our middle class. That's my resolution for the coming
year."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7000NB20110101

Anyone want to bet he pulls a Douchebag and drops the ball again for
the third year in a row?...

Note how he's saying "Republicans are ready to lead..."? *It appears
that he's trying to set up the REP party to take the blame for
whatever else he pulls in the near future.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Peter Minard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You mean "....that the REP party will have to accept responsibility
for their destructive actions".

You damn right.

I look forward to watching the GOP destroying any chance they have for
2012 in the next two years....their track record indicates that they
will wildly succeed in screwing themselves as they have done in the
past.

Send in the clowns...the Republicans clowns.

I wonder how Sarah Palin looks with a red nose?

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Jan 1, 4:35 pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
RCM only

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 11:41:52 -0600, Boris Kapusta





wrote:
(Reuters) - President Barack Obama has set his New Year's resolution
high for 2011: repair the struggling economy.

In his weekly radio and Internet address on Saturday, the vacationing
president said recent data showed the economic recovery was gaining
traction even as millions of Americans are still out of work.

"Our most important task now is to keep that recovery going," Obama
said. "As president, that's my commitment to you: to do everything I
can to make sure our economy is growing, creating jobs, and
strengthening our middle class. That's my resolution for the coming
year."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7000NB20110101

Anyone want to bet he pulls a Douchebag and drops the ball again for
the third year in a row?...

Note how he's saying "Republicans are ready to lead..."? It appears
that he's trying to set up the REP party to take the blame for
whatever else he pulls in the near future.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

\You mean "....that the REP party will have to accept responsibility
\for their destructive actions".
\
\You damn right.
\
\I look forward to watching the GOP destroying any chance they have for
\2012 in the next two years....their track record indicates that they
\will wildly succeed in screwing themselves as they have done in the
\past.
\
\Send in the clowns...the Republicans clowns.
\
\I wonder how Sarah Palin looks with a red nose?
\
\TMT

No one can get the people to vote for Republicans like the idiots the
Dimocraps keep electing. Keep it up, the GOP should be giving funds to the
DNC for all the help!

RogerN

--
The science to which I pinned my faith is bankrupt. Its counsels, which
should have established the millennium, have led directly to the suicide of
Europe. I believed them once. In their name I helped to destroy the faith of
millions of worshipers in the temples of a thousand creeds, and now they
look at me and witness the great tragedy of an atheist who has lost his
faith.
George Bernard Shaw

On 1/1/2011 2:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
RCM only

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 11:41:52 -0600, Boris Kapusta
wrote:

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama has set his New Year's resolution
high for 2011: repair the struggling economy.

In his weekly radio and Internet address on Saturday, the vacationing
president said recent data showed the economic recovery was gaining
traction even as millions of Americans are still out of work.

"Our most important task now is to keep that recovery going," Obama
said. "As president, that's my commitment to you: to do everything I
can to make sure our economy is growing, creating jobs, and
strengthening our middle class. That's my resolution for the coming
year."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7000NB20110101

Anyone want to bet he pulls a Douchebag and drops the ball again for
the third year in a row?...

Note how he's saying "Republicans are ready to lead..."? It appears
that he's trying to set up the REP party to take the blame for
whatever else he pulls in the near future.

Nobody needs to set up the republican party to take the blame for
anything. They're perfectly capable of making a mess all by themselves.
Just like the one we're still trying to get out of. All we will see now
is just more republican screw ups. Don't blink. It doesn't take them but
a second to ruin things. I just wonder why people keep giving them
another chance. It must be that America has battered woman syndrome.
They keep putting the party that beats the **** out of them back where
they can do it again.

Hawke

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 19:18:56 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 1/1/2011 2:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
RCM only

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 11:41:52 -0600, Boris Kapusta
wrote:

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama has set his New Year's resolution
high for 2011: repair the struggling economy.

In his weekly radio and Internet address on Saturday, the vacationing
president said recent data showed the economic recovery was gaining
traction even as millions of Americans are still out of work.

"Our most important task now is to keep that recovery going," Obama
said. "As president, that's my commitment to you: to do everything I
can to make sure our economy is growing, creating jobs, and
strengthening our middle class. That's my resolution for the coming
year."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7000NB20110101

Anyone want to bet he pulls a Douchebag and drops the ball again for
the third year in a row?...

Note how he's saying "Republicans are ready to lead..."? It appears
that he's trying to set up the REP party to take the blame for
whatever else he pulls in the near future.

Nobody needs to set up the republican party to take the blame for
anything. They're perfectly capable of making a mess all by themselves.
Just like the one we're still trying to get out of. All we will see now
is just more republican screw ups. Don't blink. It doesn't take them but
a second to ruin things. I just wonder why people keep giving them
another chance. It must be that America has battered woman syndrome.
They keep putting the party that beats the **** out of them back where
they can do it again.

Hawke
==========
I think a better simile is a generation long Ponzi scheme,
where the insiders make out like a bandit, and the majority
investors get it in the shorts when it comes time to
actually deliver those promised outsized returns in actual
cash. The rationale is that they just need to invest a
little more money and then everything will be fine.

The "Republican" grift is very appealing, stolen as it was
from actual Republicans such Taft and Goldwater, that taxes
and regulations can and should be minimized by limiting the
size of government, and by combating [wait for it] fraud,
waste and abuse. The problem of course is that in a spirit
of bipartisanship, government has grown enormously, not
shrunk, fraud, waste and abuse are so rampant that these are
no longer recognized as such, and the Republican campaign
contributors are addicted to the Federal tit, albeit at a
higher aggregate level such as entire weapons systems
contracts.

The "Democratic" grift is very similar in that it promises
increasing social services and safety nets, again to be paid
for by increasing enforcement against Fraud, waste abuse,
and tax evasion, with no increase in taxes. The Democratic
campaign contributors and voters are equally addicted to the
federal tit, but many of these are at a lower
[subsistence/cheese check] level.

The entire established economic mantra of the last
generation from deregulation and the new knowledge based
economy to free trade and supply side economics is as much
bourgeois bafflegas/BS as Madoff's "split strike
conversion."

It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
==========
I think a better simile is a generation long Ponzi scheme,
where the insiders make out like a bandit, and the majority
investors get it in the shorts when it comes time to
actually deliver those promised outsized returns in actual
cash. The rationale is that they just need to invest a
little more money and then everything will be fine.

The "Republican" grift is very appealing, stolen as it was
from actual Republicans such Taft and Goldwater, that taxes
and regulations can and should be minimized by limiting the
size of government, and by combating [wait for it] fraud,
waste and abuse. The problem of course is that in a spirit
of bipartisanship, government has grown enormously, not
shrunk, fraud, waste and abuse are so rampant that these are
no longer recognized as such, and the Republican campaign
contributors are addicted to the Federal tit, albeit at a
higher aggregate level such as entire weapons systems
contracts.

The "Democratic" grift is very similar in that it promises
increasing social services and safety nets, again to be paid
for by increasing enforcement against Fraud, waste abuse,
and tax evasion, with no increase in taxes. The Democratic
campaign contributors and voters are equally addicted to the
federal tit, but many of these are at a lower
[subsistence/cheese check] level.

The entire established economic mantra of the last
generation from deregulation and the new knowledge based
economy to free trade and supply side economics is as much
bourgeois bafflegas/BS as Madoff's "split strike
conversion."

It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)

I don't see how it's possible to resurrect honesty, integrity and justice in
America. Term limits and scraping the current tax system would be an
absolute must for any serious attempt to halt or slow the decline of America
and that will never happen. America will never be a major wealth creation
leader again. Look at the worst of Europe, that is our future. The
mounting debt can never be paid and default is inevitable. What happens
when all the give-aways grind to a halt?

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 04:40:07 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
==========
I think a better simile is a generation long Ponzi scheme,
where the insiders make out like a bandit, and the majority
investors get it in the shorts when it comes time to
actually deliver those promised outsized returns in actual
cash. The rationale is that they just need to invest a
little more money and then everything will be fine.

The "Republican" grift is very appealing, stolen as it was
from actual Republicans such Taft and Goldwater, that taxes
and regulations can and should be minimized by limiting the
size of government, and by combating [wait for it] fraud,
waste and abuse. The problem of course is that in a spirit
of bipartisanship, government has grown enormously, not
shrunk, fraud, waste and abuse are so rampant that these are
no longer recognized as such, and the Republican campaign
contributors are addicted to the Federal tit, albeit at a
higher aggregate level such as entire weapons systems
contracts.

The "Democratic" grift is very similar in that it promises
increasing social services and safety nets, again to be paid
for by increasing enforcement against Fraud, waste abuse,
and tax evasion, with no increase in taxes. The Democratic
campaign contributors and voters are equally addicted to the
federal tit, but many of these are at a lower
[subsistence/cheese check] level.

The entire established economic mantra of the last
generation from deregulation and the new knowledge based
economy to free trade and supply side economics is as much
bourgeois bafflegas/BS as Madoff's "split strike
conversion."

It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)

I don't see how it's possible to resurrect honesty, integrity and justice in
America. Term limits and scraping the current tax system would be an
absolute must for any serious attempt to halt or slow the decline of America
and that will never happen. America will never be a major wealth creation
leader again. Look at the worst of Europe, that is our future. The
mounting debt can never be paid and default is inevitable. What happens
when all the give-aways grind to a halt?

=========
You appear to be correct in your analysis.

One "solution" is what I call the "Seven days in May" option
where the military gets fed-up with being the whipping boy
and cleans out the Aegean stable, aided and abetted by the
irate civil service employees who have been cheated out of
their deferred wages, i.e. pensions, and who have been
blamed for doing what they were told when things went wrong,
quite likely with drumhead court-martials and summary
executions of those most accountable, e.g. starting with
Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan.

Another possible endgame is continuation of business as
usual until no more money can be borrowed by the US
governments at any rate of interest, and all the trust
funds, bank accounts, insurance policies, privately owned
precious metals, foreign currency, etc. have been
commandeered by mandated "investment" in governmental
"securities," at which point a general collapse in not only
the financial/fiscal systems occur, but also a general
collapse of civil government at all levels.

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

In any likely "resolution," both the Democratic and
Republican parties will be identified as criminal
organizations, on a par with the "Crips" and the "Bloods"
and totally new political groupings will hopefully emerge
that will implement Draconian regulation of the financial
services industry, prohibit governmental deficits, abolish
the FRB, replacing it with an accountable government
owned/controlled central bank, and implementing a tax code
that insures everyone pays their fair share of the cost of
operating government. Don't hold your breath.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 11:57:52 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 04:40:07 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
. ..
==========
I think a better simile is a generation long Ponzi scheme,
where the insiders make out like a bandit, and the majority
investors get it in the shorts when it comes time to
actually deliver those promised outsized returns in actual
cash. The rationale is that they just need to invest a
little more money and then everything will be fine.

The "Republican" grift is very appealing, stolen as it was
from actual Republicans such Taft and Goldwater, that taxes
and regulations can and should be minimized by limiting the
size of government, and by combating [wait for it] fraud,
waste and abuse. The problem of course is that in a spirit
of bipartisanship, government has grown enormously, not
shrunk, fraud, waste and abuse are so rampant that these are
no longer recognized as such, and the Republican campaign
contributors are addicted to the Federal tit, albeit at a
higher aggregate level such as entire weapons systems
contracts.

The "Democratic" grift is very similar in that it promises
increasing social services and safety nets, again to be paid
for by increasing enforcement against Fraud, waste abuse,
and tax evasion, with no increase in taxes. The Democratic
campaign contributors and voters are equally addicted to the
federal tit, but many of these are at a lower
[subsistence/cheese check] level.

The entire established economic mantra of the last
generation from deregulation and the new knowledge based
economy to free trade and supply side economics is as much
bourgeois bafflegas/BS as Madoff's "split strike
conversion."

It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)

I don't see how it's possible to resurrect honesty, integrity and justice in
America. Term limits and scraping the current tax system would be an
absolute must for any serious attempt to halt or slow the decline of America
and that will never happen. America will never be a major wealth creation
leader again. Look at the worst of Europe, that is our future. The
mounting debt can never be paid and default is inevitable. What happens
when all the give-aways grind to a halt?

=========
You appear to be correct in your analysis.

One "solution" is what I call the "Seven days in May" option
where the military gets fed-up with being the whipping boy
and cleans out the Aegean stable, aided and abetted by the
irate civil service employees who have been cheated out of
their deferred wages, i.e. pensions, and who have been
blamed for doing what they were told when things went wrong,
quite likely with drumhead court-martials and summary
executions of those most accountable, e.g. starting with
Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan.

Another possible endgame is continuation of business as
usual until no more money can be borrowed by the US
governments at any rate of interest, and all the trust
funds, bank accounts, insurance policies, privately owned
precious metals, foreign currency, etc. have been
commandeered by mandated "investment" in governmental
"securities," at which point a general collapse in not only
the financial/fiscal systems occur, but also a general
collapse of civil government at all levels.

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

In any likely "resolution," both the Democratic and
Republican parties will be identified as criminal
organizations, on a par with the "Crips" and the "Bloods"
and totally new political groupings will hopefully emerge
that will implement Draconian regulation of the financial
services industry, prohibit governmental deficits, abolish
the FRB, replacing it with an accountable government
owned/controlled central bank, and implementing a tax code
that insures everyone pays their fair share of the cost of
operating government. Don't hold your breath.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
news
=========
You appear to be correct in your analysis.

One "solution" is what I call the "Seven days in May" option
where the military gets fed-up with being the whipping boy
and cleans out the Aegean stable, aided and abetted by the
irate civil service employees who have been cheated out of
their deferred wages, i.e. pensions, and who have been
blamed for doing what they were told when things went wrong,
quite likely with drumhead court-martials and summary
executions of those most accountable, e.g. starting with
Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan.

Another possible endgame is continuation of business as
usual until no more money can be borrowed by the US
governments at any rate of interest, and all the trust
funds, bank accounts, insurance policies, privately owned
precious metals, foreign currency, etc. have been
commandeered by mandated "investment" in governmental
"securities," at which point a general collapse in not only
the financial/fiscal systems occur, but also a general
collapse of civil government at all levels.

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

In any likely "resolution," both the Democratic and
Republican parties will be identified as criminal
organizations, on a par with the "Crips" and the "Bloods"
and totally new political groupings will hopefully emerge
that will implement Draconian regulation of the financial
services industry, prohibit governmental deficits, abolish
the FRB, replacing it with an accountable government
owned/controlled central bank, and implementing a tax code
that insures everyone pays their fair share of the cost of
operating government. Don't hold your breath.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens. I do believe it will be attempted but there is still just too
much integrity and honor among servicemen.

I believe you're correct about everyone being in the tax system, not only do
the rich have to pay more but EVERYONE has to have SOME skin in the game,
even the working poor need to pony-up. Can there be meaningful cuts in
spending with the sheer number of people addicted to social programs? These
programs HAVE to be ruthlessly cut. But politicians are notorious for
spending more than revenues. There should be strictly enforced balanced
budget laws and term limits.

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 15:18:23 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:
snip
I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens. I do believe it will be attempted but there is still just too
much integrity and honor among servicemen.
snip
Indeed, but don't confuse the government with the
people/citizens.

The members of the military are not stupid, and they can
clearly see how the nation's remaining assets are being
squandered on useless foreign wars for the profit of a
select few rather than securing the US domestic borders for
the benefit of the majority, how military
security/preparedness is being continually compromised by
the deindustrialization of the nation with massive
technology and job exports, and the fiscal/financial systems
are being perverted and undermined from a very
efficient/effective system of capital allocation to a
[subsidized] casino where any profits are skimmed, and only
the losses shared.

It is preciously the militaries' feelings of duty, honor,
and country combined with their oath to uphold, protect and
defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and
*DOMESTIC* that are likely to precipitate drastic corrective
action. The screw job the members of the armed forces, and
the services themselves, are getting at the hands of the
politicians in sub-standard and inadequate
supplies/facilities/equipment, pay, benefits, medical care
for combat related injuries, being the whipping boy in the
"blame game" and retirement pay and medical will be an
important contributing factor.

As ==uncontrolled== total fiscal/financial collapse
becomes more probable and proximate, so does the likelihood
of a "Seven Days in May" solution, if only because the
military will have nothing to lose (and a great deal to
gain). Thus a refusal to raise the national debt limit by
the tea party and other patriotic legislators to force a
controlled and limited default and governmental
restructuring [particularly preventing Senatorial
obstructionism by both parties and removing excessive
corporate influence] can be seen as increasingly important.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:31:17 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 11:57:52 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 04:40:07 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
==========
I think a better simile is a generation long Ponzi scheme,
where the insiders make out like a bandit, and the majority
investors get it in the shorts when it comes time to
actually deliver those promised outsized returns in actual
cash. The rationale is that they just need to invest a
little more money and then everything will be fine.

The "Republican" grift is very appealing, stolen as it was
from actual Republicans such Taft and Goldwater, that taxes
and regulations can and should be minimized by limiting the
size of government, and by combating [wait for it] fraud,
waste and abuse. The problem of course is that in a spirit
of bipartisanship, government has grown enormously, not
shrunk, fraud, waste and abuse are so rampant that these are
no longer recognized as such, and the Republican campaign
contributors are addicted to the Federal tit, albeit at a
higher aggregate level such as entire weapons systems
contracts.

The "Democratic" grift is very similar in that it promises
increasing social services and safety nets, again to be paid
for by increasing enforcement against Fraud, waste abuse,
and tax evasion, with no increase in taxes. The Democratic
campaign contributors and voters are equally addicted to the
federal tit, but many of these are at a lower
[subsistence/cheese check] level.

The entire established economic mantra of the last
generation from deregulation and the new knowledge based
economy to free trade and supply side economics is as much
bourgeois bafflegas/BS as Madoff's "split strike
conversion."

It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)

I don't see how it's possible to resurrect honesty, integrity and justice in
America. Term limits and scraping the current tax system would be an
absolute must for any serious attempt to halt or slow the decline of America
and that will never happen. America will never be a major wealth creation
leader again. Look at the worst of Europe, that is our future. The
mounting debt can never be paid and default is inevitable. What happens
when all the give-aways grind to a halt?

=========
You appear to be correct in your analysis.

One "solution" is what I call the "Seven days in May" option
where the military gets fed-up with being the whipping boy
and cleans out the Aegean stable, aided and abetted by the
irate civil service employees who have been cheated out of
their deferred wages, i.e. pensions, and who have been
blamed for doing what they were told when things went wrong,
quite likely with drumhead court-martials and summary
executions of those most accountable, e.g. starting with
Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan.

Another possible endgame is continuation of business as
usual until no more money can be borrowed by the US
governments at any rate of interest, and all the trust
funds, bank accounts, insurance policies, privately owned
precious metals, foreign currency, etc. have been
commandeered by mandated "investment" in governmental
"securities," at which point a general collapse in not only
the financial/fiscal systems occur, but also a general
collapse of civil government at all levels.

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

g tap, tap, tap I'm restlessly waiting...


In any likely "resolution," both the Democratic and
Republican parties will be identified as criminal
organizations, on a par with the "Crips" and the "Bloods"
and totally new political groupings will hopefully emerge
that will implement Draconian regulation of the financial
services industry, prohibit governmental deficits, abolish
the FRB, replacing it with an accountable government
owned/controlled central bank, and implementing a tax code
that insures everyone pays their fair share of the cost of
operating government. Don't hold your breath.

Insert fitting tune he http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L--cqAI3IUI

But I WANNA hold my breath!

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 15:18:23 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens. I do believe it will be attempted but there is still just too
much integrity and honor among servicemen.

I pray that's true.


I believe you're correct about everyone being in the tax system, not only do
the rich have to pay more but EVERYONE has to have SOME skin in the game,
even the working poor need to pony-up. Can there be meaningful cuts in
spending with the sheer number of people addicted to social programs? These
programs HAVE to be ruthlessly cut. But politicians are notorious for
spending more than revenues. There should be strictly enforced balanced
budget laws and term limits.

What about other people being addicted to the gov't teat? Look at the
number of useless alphabet agencies operating right now. Look at the
hundreds more OhBummer wants to add for the healthcare rape. I'm
afraid that it's way past time for a really ruthless paring of the
extraordinarily bloated, wasteful gov't, one way or another.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:19:30 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

g tap, tap, tap I'm restlessly waiting...

Stocked up? Its going to be a very nasty time to be out of bread, wine
and barbed wire. You do have lots of bullets of course..right?

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 15:18:23 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens. I do believe it will be attempted but there is still just too
much integrity and honor among servicemen.

I pray that's true.


I believe you're correct about everyone being in the tax system, not only
do
the rich have to pay more but EVERYONE has to have SOME skin in the game,
even the working poor need to pony-up. Can there be meaningful cuts in
spending with the sheer number of people addicted to social programs?
These
programs HAVE to be ruthlessly cut. But politicians are notorious for
spending more than revenues. There should be strictly enforced balanced
budget laws and term limits.

What about other people being addicted to the gov't teat? Look at the
number of useless alphabet agencies operating right now. Look at the
hundreds more OhBummer wants to add for the healthcare rape. I'm
afraid that it's way past time for a really ruthless paring of the
extraordinarily bloated, wasteful gov't, one way or another.


Read about "Cloward and Piven" and "Saul Alinsky". Leftists are following
their plans to the letter.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 22:57:41 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:19:30 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

g tap, tap, tap I'm restlessly waiting...

Stocked up? Its going to be a very nasty time to be out of bread, wine
and barbed wire. You do have lots of bullets of course..right?

Yeah, I stocked up on 7.62 last month and picked up that shiny new
Cold Steel Kobun last week. (Sweet little tanto, BTW.) I should be
able to fight off the hoards from the cities if need be. I do need to
stock more canned goods, though. And I should sort/restock my BOB.

No wine (don't cook with it enough, -damned- well don't drink it) or
barbed wire, though.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 04:46:34 -0500, "LibtardStupid"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 15:18:23 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens. I do believe it will be attempted but there is still just too
much integrity and honor among servicemen.

I pray that's true.


I believe you're correct about everyone being in the tax system, not only
do
the rich have to pay more but EVERYONE has to have SOME skin in the game,
even the working poor need to pony-up. Can there be meaningful cuts in
spending with the sheer number of people addicted to social programs?
These
programs HAVE to be ruthlessly cut. But politicians are notorious for
spending more than revenues. There should be strictly enforced balanced
budget laws and term limits.

What about other people being addicted to the gov't teat? Look at the
number of useless alphabet agencies operating right now. Look at the
hundreds more OhBummer wants to add for the healthcare rape. I'm
afraid that it's way past time for a really ruthless paring of the
extraordinarily bloated, wasteful gov't, one way or another.


Read about "Cloward and Piven" and "Saul Alinsky". Leftists are following
their plans to the letter.

Overview first, then the "book" when I have time.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...iven-strategy/
(dodgammed email popup requests. I won't be back to that site.)

"Book"
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/03/24-4

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:57:24 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

No barbed wire? Then when a group of Leftwingers swings in and trys to
loot..how are you going to support them? Nylon rope is expensive!!!

Ever heard of a Molotov cocktail? You can make a pretty effective slingshot
with a recycled bike inner tube and a forked stick.

Of course such a device leaves you close to the target and one of them
may have a 22 and shoot you in the eye. Or a bow and arrow and slides a
broadhead through your brisket.

A molotov IED is easy to make, can be manufactured from 5 gallons of
gasoline mixed with clothes soap and triggered with a simple homemade
booster charge from a long distance. Works very very nicely on human
beings who become covered with strongly burning home made napalm.

Not only is it effective on the targets..but gives great pause to
their companions who were following. Doesnt work all that well on motor
vehicles though.
Those can be dealt with in equally simple fashion..but using other
simple methods.. And from a distance as well.

This gives the operator a chance to continue constructing objects and
destroying his enemies, rather than doing it one time and dying before
he can perfect his procedures.

Remember..its the job of any good soldier not to die for his beliefs,
but to make the other poor *******s die for theirs.

Humans are disgustingly resourceful, when the swarf hits the fan.

I just recently found out that it's perfectly legal (in southern Mexifornia)
to trap sky rats (pigeons), as long as there's pigeon food and water in the
trap, until they can be "humanely" killed, and then, of course, if you know
how to flick and draw them, you can have squab for dinner. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:59:54 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens.

Can you say, "Ruby Ridge?" "Kent State?" "Waco?"

Yeah, yeah, that was "only" the FBI and the National Guard, but what's
really the difference?

Thanks,
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian

Well the FBI isnt military at all, and the National Guard is to be used
only Inside the US, while the Federal military is to be only used
outside of it.

And what do you think will happen if suddenly 20 McVeighs rise up and
attack?

Utter chaos will reign supreme for months.

Btw..including the Kent State event in the other two is utterly
disengenious. Those poor *******s were poorly trained, and put between
a rock and a hard place. If they had been well trained..the bod count
would have been MUCH higher than 4 dead and 15 wounded.

Hell..a squad of Iraq War vets (12 men) COULD have slaughtered the
crowd and gone to the bar for a beer and pizza afterwards.

In Ruby Ridge and Waco..it was the Non Military ABC organizations which
caused the trouble and the deaths (with some help from Delta if the
reports are true)

As Ive stated before..the Revolutionary War was fought by 10% of the
population. In todays numbers..thats 31 Million individuals.
A large number of whom are miltiary trained, active hunters and shooters
and so forth. Very well armed, very well trained and able to pick off
just about anyone they consider to be an enemy. Be it Leftwinger,
police officer, military commander down to the lowest PFC.

Our miltary and law enforcement organizations..in total...every
swinging dick and bra rack is less than 4 million men and women.

Against 31 million ****ed off, SMART and well armed men and women.
The largest army on the planet. All with a copy of Von Clauswitz and Sun
Tzu in their pockets.

And they wouldnt be fighting set piece battles where superior miltary
tech can make a difference. Hit and move. Small unit tactics would be
Big Affairs.

Some poor ******* is filling up his vehicle at a fuel blivit...some one
from the shadows puts a 7mm Mag round up his nose. Then busts the
blivet and lites it on fire.
A group of helo pilots is sitting down for food at a restaurant..and
they get served burgers laced with rat poison or a grenade is rolled
under their table..or served in the chicken basket.

Shrug..31 million Americans have a high tech, well educated, nasty,
cruel, evil minded core..and the combined military/law enforcement/ABC
agencies have a very limited effective number....which would be
diminishing rapidly in a very short period of time.

RC airplanes. Hell...every town has a club or a group of guys who fly
em. Think a Piper Cub RC plane with a pound of C4 in its guts cant be
used effectively as a guided missile? Think one flown into the side of
a Blackhawk chopper wouldnt kill it?

The list is endless. If the Gubmint was smart..they would surrender 10
minutes after the whoopdeedo started. But...they arent smart.
Professional politicians btw...would be slaughtered quickly. And then
they would either retire, den up in DC etc etc..and no longer be able to
direct the military or other agencies. Think how many phone company
guys would be part of that 31 million......and electrical workers..and
plumbers.... and ...

Ive always laughed about the idea of Fema camps being used to lock up
the population. They could hold a few thousands for a period of time.
Indeed. Then that 31 million would come down on them like stink on ****.
Fema leaders would be terminated, suppliers would stop feeding the
guards, power and water would be turned off. No fuel could be
delivered..it would be marked by blazing remains of tanker trucks....

A very nasty bit of business for the survivors..and the dead.
Hence my prayers that such a thing doesnt happen.

Though to be truthful..Im not praying as hard anymore. It might indeed
be time for such a wake up for America.

And a good house cleaning.

Gunner







--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

Gunner Asch on Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:31:17 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

Bring on the financial crisis, maybe we can avoid the Great Cull.

The question facing all governments, from the local town council
up to the Federal is: when are the cuts coming, and how much will they
be? (The answer is "soon" and "deep")
Programs are just going to have to go away. There are things
which the Government, especially at the Federal level, is doing
badly, which is should not be doing at all. Those things need to be
identified, and the programs phased out, the budget cut, and the taxes
repealed block granted back to the states.
I would rather go through a financial crisis, than have the civil
unrest of a Great Cull. I would really rather not have the financial
crisis put off to the point that it and the Great Cull occur
simultaneously.

On the other hand, I could go back to my Norkse heritage and our
cheery little pre-game chant. "We're going to loot, rob, pillage and
burn; gonna loot rob pillage and burn - rah, rah!"
Multiculturalism - some times .... I'm all in favour.

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
"Given our monstrous, overgrown government structure, any three letters
chosen at random would probably designate an agency or part of a
department that could be profitably abolished." Milton Freidman

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...

Tom Gardner wrote:

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens.

Can you say, "Ruby Ridge?" "Kent State?" "Waco?"

Yeah, yeah, that was "only" the FBI and the National Guard, but what's
really the difference?

Thanks,
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian


Reply:
Waco was Regular Army. And Government people should have gone to jail for
using the RA. they lied saying it was drugs, the only legal reason to use
the RA and was never drugs as a reason before they wanted tanks. Janet Reno
should have gone to jail for years for that move.

"Califbill" wrote in message
m...
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...

Tom Gardner wrote:

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn against
citizens.

Can you say, "Ruby Ridge?" "Kent State?" "Waco?"


And that's only the ones we KNOW about.

Steve

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:41:18 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
A very nasty bit of business for the survivors..and the dead.
Hence my prayers that such a thing doesnt happen.
snip

Even a Cocker Spaniel will become vicious if abused long
enough and often enough, particularly when her puppies are
involved...


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Gunner Asch on Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:24:44 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 06:58:34 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 22:57:41 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:19:30 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

g tap, tap, tap I'm restlessly waiting...

Stocked up? Its going to be a very nasty time to be out of bread, wine
and barbed wire. You do have lots of bullets of course..right?

Yeah, I stocked up on 7.62 last month and picked up that shiny new
Cold Steel Kobun last week. (Sweet little tanto, BTW.) I should be
able to fight off the hoards from the cities if need be. I do need to
stock more canned goods, though. And I should sort/restock my BOB.

No wine (don't cook with it enough, -damned- well don't drink it) or
barbed wire, though.

I dont drink wine or anything else either..but it works as a moral
builder and a modest antigerm skin agent.

OTOH, consider the trade value of a case of Whiskey. Individually
or by the bottle.

No barbed wire? Then when a group of Leftwingers swings in and trys to
loot..how are you going to support them? Nylon rope is expensive!!!

Use the cotton clothes line.

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Rich Grise on Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:57:24
-0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner Asch wrote:

No barbed wire? Then when a group of Leftwingers swings in and trys to
loot..how are you going to support them? Nylon rope is expensive!!!

Ever heard of a Molotov cocktail? You can make a pretty effective slingshot
with a recycled bike inner tube and a forked stick.

"tangle foot" - wires about six inches off the ground. Really
good where there is some grass grown up to obscure it. Then you can
put punji stakes where they are going to trip.

Humans are disgustingly resourceful, when the swarf hits the fan.

Oh yea, the tripline which is rigged where the cleaver person will
go.

I just recently found out that it's perfectly legal (in southern Mexifornia)
to trap sky rats (pigeons), as long as there's pigeon food and water in the
trap, until they can be "humanely" killed, and then, of course, if you know
how to flick and draw them, you can have squab for dinner. ;-)

"and it not against any religion
To want to get rid of a pigeon"
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:24:44 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 06:58:34 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 22:57:41 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:19:30 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

g tap, tap, tap I'm restlessly waiting...

Stocked up? Its going to be a very nasty time to be out of bread, wine
and barbed wire. You do have lots of bullets of course..right?

Yeah, I stocked up on 7.62 last month and picked up that shiny new
Cold Steel Kobun last week. (Sweet little tanto, BTW.) I should be
able to fight off the hoards from the cities if need be. I do need to
stock more canned goods, though. And I should sort/restock my BOB.

No wine (don't cook with it enough, -damned- well don't drink it) or
barbed wire, though.

I dont drink wine or anything else either..but it works as a moral
builder and a modest antigerm skin agent.

No barbed wire? Then when a group of Leftwingers swings in and trys to
loot..how are you going to support them? Nylon rope is expensive!!!

In about 20 minutes, I'll know if 1k' of camo coreless paracord is
mine. 50' hanks of #550 can be had from WallyWorld for $2 and change,
too. 9mm is on sale at BiMart, so I'll add some stock.

--
You do not need a parachute to skydive.
You only need a parachute to skydive twice.

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 12:38:39 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:57:24 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

No barbed wire? Then when a group of Leftwingers swings in and trys to
loot..how are you going to support them? Nylon rope is expensive!!!

Ever heard of a Molotov cocktail? You can make a pretty effective slingshot
with a recycled bike inner tube and a forked stick.

Of course such a device leaves you close to the target and one of them
may have a 22 and shoot you in the eye. Or a bow and arrow and slides a
broadhead through your brisket.

Ouch!


A molotov IED is easy to make, can be manufactured from 5 gallons of
gasoline mixed with clothes soap and triggered with a simple homemade
booster charge from a long distance. Works very very nicely on human
beings who become covered with strongly burning home made napalm.

Industrial Strength depilatory, eh?


Not only is it effective on the targets..but gives great pause to
their companions who were following. Doesnt work all that well on motor
vehicles though.

Wouldn't a precursor be a concussion IED (or some fast-flying lead) so
the glass was out of the way for the napalm to work more efficiently?


Those can be dealt with in equally simple fashion..but using other
simple methods.. And from a distance as well.

This gives the operator a chance to continue constructing objects and
destroying his enemies, rather than doing it one time and dying before
he can perfect his procedures.

Learn from the Iraqis (Saudis), eh?


Remember..its the job of any good soldier not to die for his beliefs,
but to make the other poor *******s die for theirs.

And to wound as many perps as they can so the perps don't attack us.


Humans are disgustingly resourceful, when the swarf hits the fan.

No kidding.


I just recently found out that it's perfectly legal (in southern Mexifornia)
to trap sky rats (pigeons), as long as there's pigeon food and water in the
trap, until they can be "humanely" killed, and then, of course, if you know
how to flick and draw them, you can have squab for dinner. ;-)

Shades of Hannibal from "Silence of the Lambs"...

--
You do not need a parachute to skydive.
You only need a parachute to skydive twice.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 11:57:52 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.
snip
========
I have received several [OK 2] emails asking what sort of
things the Federal government could inflict on the citizens
while attempting to evade the unavoidable, i.e. default.

While it is difficult to predict what an erratic and
irrational government might do, based on recent historical
examples of governmental actions while attempting to avoid
inevitable default include but are not limited to:

1) Forced investment in/conversion to governmental
"securities" of existing IRA/Roth/401k type retirement
savings accounts, with government controlled interest;
2) Forced investment of increasing fractions of insurance
and bank capital in government "securities" the interest of
which is set by the government.
3) Forced investment of defined benefit pension funds still
under corporate or local/state government control in Federal
government "securities;"
4) Confiscation of privately owned foreign currency, foreign
bank accounts, precious metals, etc. by mandated
sale/conversion at government dictated prices far below the
free market rates, possibly paid in non-liquid government
"securities;"
5) Seizure of other personal assets such as real estate and
vehicles through extortionate tax rates and extravagant fees
for governmental services; and
6) Forced exchange of central bank foreign currency reserves
for governmental "securities."

Without exception, the governments still went bankrupt or
into default, but only after the entire national supply of
legal/licit capital, governmental, corporate and individual
was exhausted, making recovery much more difficult, and
allowing the local criminal elements, who had managed to
conceal/preserve much, if not all, of their assets, to take
economic and political control of the country.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:45:15 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


On the other hand, I could go back to my Norkse heritage and our
cheery little pre-game chant. "We're going to loot, rob, pillage and
burn; gonna loot rob pillage and burn - rah, rah!"
Multiculturalism - some times .... I'm all in favour.

tschus
pyotr

Remember: Pillage BEFORE Burn!

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:59:54 -0800, Rich Grise
Tom Gardner wrote:

I can't ever imagine the military EVER being used against or turn
against citizens.

Can you say, "Ruby Ridge?" "Kent State?" "Waco?"

Yeah, yeah, that was "only" the FBI and the National Guard, but what's
really the difference?

Well the FBI isnt military at all, and the National Guard is to be used
only Inside the US, while the Federal military is to be only used
outside of it.

And what do you think will happen if suddenly 20 McVeighs rise up and
attack?

Utter chaos will reign supreme for months.

Btw..including the Kent State event in the other two is utterly
disengenious. Those poor *******s were poorly trained, and put between
a rock and a hard place. If they had been well trained..the bod count
would have been MUCH higher than 4 dead and 15 wounded.

If they'd been "well-trained," they probably wouldn't have started gunning
down a bunch of innocent, unarmed college kids.

Hearing you say this sends a chill up my spine. I _thought_ you were sane.

Thanks,
Rich

Bob on Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:19:58 -0800 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:45:15 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


On the other hand, I could go back to my Norkse heritage and our
cheery little pre-game chant. "We're going to loot, rob, pillage and
burn; gonna loot rob pillage and burn - rah, rah!"
Multiculturalism - some times .... I'm all in favour.

tschus
pyotr

Remember: Pillage BEFORE Burn!

Shiny Stuff first!
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:53:26 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Bob on Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:19:58 -0800 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:45:15 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


On the other hand, I could go back to my Norkse heritage and our
cheery little pre-game chant. "We're going to loot, rob, pillage and
burn; gonna loot rob pillage and burn - rah, rah!"
Multiculturalism - some times .... I'm all in favour.

tschus
pyotr

Remember: Pillage BEFORE Burn!

Shiny Stuff first!

And just what do you -do- with all that aluminum foil, Pete?

--
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:53:26 -0800, pyotr filipivich
Bob on Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:19:58 -0800 typed
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:45:15 -0800, pyotr filipivich

On the other hand, I could go back to my Norkse heritage and our
cheery little pre-game chant. "We're going to loot, rob, pillage and
burn; gonna loot rob pillage and burn - rah, rah!"
Multiculturalism - some times .... I'm all in favour.

Remember: Pillage BEFORE Burn!

Shiny Stuff first!

And just what do you -do- with all that aluminum foil, Pete?

Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

Make hats, of course - gotta protect yourself from those alien mind rays!

Cheers!
Rich

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 04:40:07 -0500, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

orig attribute sniped
It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)

I don't see how it's possible to resurrect honesty, integrity and justice in
America. Term limits and scraping the current tax system would be an
absolute must for any serious attempt to halt or slow the decline of America
and that will never happen. America will never be a major wealth creation
leader again. Look at the worst of Europe, that is our future. The
mounting debt can never be paid and default is inevitable. What happens
when all the give-aways grind to a halt?
============
With the new US Congress, specifically the new House, only a
few minutes old, the Republican House Leadership notifies
us:

(Reuters) - Republicans scaled back plans for deep cuts in
government spending as they took power in the House of
Representatives on Wednesday, diluting a key promise that
helped them to victory in November's election.
snip
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN...Name=topNew s

It is now clear that if the People [not the government and
not the banks/brokerages] are to avoid total devastation
later, a somewhat smaller and more limited/controlled
catastrophe must occur now due to the blocking of any
increase in the national debt limit by patriotic financial
conservatives, particularly the new Tea Party legislators.

To be sure this is a desperate and extreme measure,
comparable to the emergency amputation of one or more limbs
without anesthesia because of septicemia, but this now
appears to be the only alternative to an even bigger more
total and more complete collapse of the financial/fiscal
systems of the US, in a few months to a few years, after all
liquid capital has been dissipated and all fixed/real assets
of any value have been encumbered, i.e. mortgaged to the
Chinese.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Jan 5, 12:35*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 04:40:07 -0500, "Tom Gardner"

wrote:

orig attribute sniped



It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. *It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)

I don't see how it's possible to resurrect honesty, integrity and justice in
America. *Term limits and scraping the current tax system would be an
absolute must for any serious attempt to halt or slow the decline of America
and that will never happen. *America will never be a major wealth creation
leader again. *Look at the worst of Europe, that is our future. *The
mounting debt can never be paid and default is inevitable. *What happens
when all the give-aways grind to a halt?

============
With the new US Congress, specifically the new House, only a
few minutes old, the Republican House Leadership notifies
us:

(Reuters) - Republicans scaled back plans for deep cuts in
government spending as they took power in the House of
Representatives on Wednesday, diluting a key promise that
helped them to victory in November's election.
sniphttp://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN...edType=RSS&fee...

It is now clear that if the People [not the government and
not the banks/brokerages] are to avoid total devastation
later, a somewhat smaller and more limited/controlled
catastrophe must occur now due to the blocking of any
increase in the national debt limit by patriotic financial
conservatives, particularly the new Tea Party legislators.

To be sure this is a desperate and extreme measure,
comparable to the emergency amputation of one or more limbs
without anesthesia because of septicemia, but this now
appears to be the only alternative to an even bigger more
total and more complete collapse of the financial/fiscal
systems of the US, in a few months to a few years, after all
liquid capital has been dissipated and all fixed/real assets
of any value have been encumbered, i.e. mortgaged to the
Chinese.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL...notice how Nancy is having fun making Johnny wait....

TMT

On Jan 5, 1:02*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 5, 12:35*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-





associates.us wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 04:40:07 -0500, "Tom Gardner"

wrote:

orig attribute sniped

It should be apparent that as long as the executives on Wall
Street and the transnational corporations including the
banks are allowed, indeed encouraged, aided and abetted, to
skim the profits off the top and pay minimal to no taxes
[but large political campaign contributions], the US economy
will not and cannot improve. *It should also be apparent
that such massive skimming and tax evasion requires
extensive bipartisan support including the top levels of the
DoJ and IRS, so the replacement of a blue scoundrel with a
red scoundrel will change nothing.

As long as the voters keep believing the popular myths,
legends, folklore, magic spells, incantations and oral
traditions pumped out by both political parties and the
political pendants, nothing is going to change, but then no
one wants to know the truth about Santa Claus either.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)

I don't see how it's possible to resurrect honesty, integrity and justice in
America. *Term limits and scraping the current tax system would be an
absolute must for any serious attempt to halt or slow the decline of America
and that will never happen. *America will never be a major wealth creation
leader again. *Look at the worst of Europe, that is our future. *The
mounting debt can never be paid and default is inevitable. *What happens
when all the give-aways grind to a halt?

============
With the new US Congress, specifically the new House, only a
few minutes old, the Republican House Leadership notifies
us:

(Reuters) - Republicans scaled back plans for deep cuts in
government spending as they took power in the House of
Representatives on Wednesday, diluting a key promise that
helped them to victory in November's election.
sniphttp://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN...edType=RSS&fee...

It is now clear that if the People [not the government and
not the banks/brokerages] are to avoid total devastation
later, a somewhat smaller and more limited/controlled
catastrophe must occur now due to the blocking of any
increase in the national debt limit by patriotic financial
conservatives, particularly the new Tea Party legislators.

To be sure this is a desperate and extreme measure,
comparable to the emergency amputation of one or more limbs
without anesthesia because of septicemia, but this now
appears to be the only alternative to an even bigger more
total and more complete collapse of the financial/fiscal
systems of the US, in a few months to a few years, after all
liquid capital has been dissipated and all fixed/real assets
of any value have been encumbered, i.e. mortgaged to the
Chinese.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL...notice how Nancy is having fun making Johnny wait....

TMT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And poor Johnny...he is starting to cry...and his tan is starting to
run.

Has anyone seen his birth certificate?

TMT

On 1/4/2011 9:30 PM, Califbill wrote:

If they remembered that they would understand that the people working
for the government, any government do what they are paid to do.
Especially young men who are soldiers. They are trained to follow orders
first and foremost. Anyone who thinks that American military would have
any mercy on them because they're fellow citizens would be very sorry.
Troops will do whatever their officers order them to do. If that means
firing on American citizens you'd be a fool if you bet your life they
wouldn't.

Hawke


Reply:
You must not have served in the military of the USA.


You're right. But I have seen so many instances where troops did
whatever they were ordered to do, no matter how heinous it was, that I
know you'd be nuts to think people in the military won't obey their
orders. Even if it means killing old people, women, and children. So why
would a fellow countryman be safe?

Hawke

Rich Grise on Wed, 05 Jan 2011 09:11:18
-0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:53:26 -0800, pyotr filipivich
Bob on Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:19:58 -0800 typed
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:45:15 -0800, pyotr filipivich

On the other hand, I could go back to my Norkse heritage and our
cheery little pre-game chant. "We're going to loot, rob, pillage and
burn; gonna loot rob pillage and burn - rah, rah!"
Multiculturalism - some times .... I'm all in favour.

Remember: Pillage BEFORE Burn!

Shiny Stuff first!

And just what do you -do- with all that aluminum foil, Pete?

Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

Make hats, of course - gotta protect yourself from those alien mind rays!

Not gonna tell.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:19:30 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

As wrenching and catastrophic as it would be, IMNSHO the
least harmful "solution" now appears to be a refusal of the
"tea party" and other financially conservative legislators
to allow an increase in the national debt limit, projected
to be reached in mid April. This of course will result in
almost immediate governmental default and shutdown, but as
this now appears inevitable, the sooner this occurs the less
damage will be inflicted, and the more of their capital can
be salvaged, by the people, from the wreckage.

Bring on the Great Cull!!

g tap, tap, tap I'm restlessly waiting...

Stocked up? Its going to be a very nasty time to be out of bread, wine
and barbed wire. You do have lots of bullets of course..right?


Scrap barbed wire would make VERY nice shrapnel...


--
What are you looking for, all the way down here?

Wes wrote:

We must have grown as a society since we locked locked up most of Dearborn.

I meant to say, "We must have grown as a society since we haven't locked up most of
Dearborn".

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 19:19:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Nice try. She IS retired, refused an Admiralty to be hired as a
consultant...by the Navy...for more than she and her Navy retired hubby
(also a consultant for the Navy) can possibly spend. Most of my family are
*highly* successful in their fields, I'm the black sheep. I know all this
is far above your comprehension because your mind is too constipated with
hate and too limited in scope. ALL the dismal failures I've ever known of
are liberals, and none are conservatives. Also, I know no conservatives
that are atheists. Gee, I wonder if there's any connection?


Liberals think they can walk on water. Conservatives want to watch
Liberals try to walk on water.

Deep water..and wearing 50lb rucks.


--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein