Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:53:44 -0800,
wrote:


(...)

Diversify: The existing grade is no longer the limit.


Grade? You bring the D9, I'll learn how to play with it. Gladly!


That be the giant can of 'Grade Be Gone'!

--Winston
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On Dec 30, 2:35*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 23:12:21 -0800, Winston
wrote:



John R. Carroll wrote:
Winston wrote:
During fence repairs, I sometimes need to
retrieve 3-5 lb. 1"- 4" diameter chunks of
concrete out of a ~15" - 24" deep hole in the ground.


(...)


What is the name of the tool that will do this please?


Thanks!


Fireplace Tongs.


I should have been clearer. *Sorry.


Most of the time, the chunks are entrapped by our famous
Bay Area Adobe Clay. *Some only budge when I stand on
the end of my slate bar. *(ca. 1300 lbs. of force)


By the time I've loosened them, they still require
substantial convincing before they agree to come along.
So I need a tool that has a wide ratio for a firm grip.


(Note the post hole digger's 5:1 mechanical advantage
*for example.)


I cruised but didn't find a pair of tongs that could
do that.


Most were 1:1 at best and some were a lot worse.


Thanks for looking into this, John.


Check out the videos...

http://www.fencepostpuller.net/index.html

As a side note..the few times Ive had to pull "plugs"..Ive simply used a
wire cable lanyard, looped around the plug and a boat winch on a stand
to simply suck them out of the ground.

Gunner

"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."

* * --Gene Spafford, 1992


I'd use a webbing sling but I agree.
Karl
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wrote:
On Dec 30, 2:35 am, Gunner wrote:


(...)

Check out the videos...

http://www.fencepostpuller.net/index.html

As a side note..the few times Ive had to pull "plugs"..Ive simply used a
wire cable lanyard, looped around the plug and a boat winch on a stand
to simply suck them out of the ground.

Gunner


(...)
I'd use a webbing sling but I agree.
Karl


I've pulled 'healthy' posts and footings out of
the ground using a hydraulic jack and web strap.
It is amazing how elastic those web straps are
at 250% of their rated load....

I agree with you, Gunner that an aircraft cable
lanyard is probably the only way to fly.

Pulling un-rotted posts is relatively quick,
but it comprises a very small proportion of the
challenge.

Usually, I find that the post is mostly rotted
at (and below) grade so the challenge is to
pull that mess out of the ground efficiently.
I have not discovered the best way to do this so
I break up the footing with a chipping hammer
and pull the various bits of rotted post and
footing out of the hole by hand.

There has got to be a better way!

Very occasionally, the post will be so rotted that
I can lift it out of the footing in large pieces.
On those occasions, I undermine the footing with a
shovel, route my web strap through the square hole
and pop the footing out of the ground using the
jack.

I fantasize about using some powder actuated
masonry fasteners to attach 'stamp eye' end fittings
to the footer, then popping the mess out of the
ground en masse.

Anybody done that? I'm all ears.

--Winston
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On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 19:11:52 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:53:44 -0800,
wrote:


(...)

Diversify: The existing grade is no longer the limit.


Grade? You bring the D9, I'll learn how to play with it. Gladly!


That be the giant can of 'Grade Be Gone'!


Ah, you betcha.

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the right versus the left,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
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On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:06:26 -0800, Winston
wrote:

wrote:
On Dec 30, 2:35 am, Gunner wrote:


(...)

Check out the videos...

http://www.fencepostpuller.net/index.html

As a side note..the few times Ive had to pull "plugs"..Ive simply used a
wire cable lanyard, looped around the plug and a boat winch on a stand
to simply suck them out of the ground.

Gunner


(...)
I'd use a webbing sling but I agree.
Karl


I've pulled 'healthy' posts and footings out of
the ground using a hydraulic jack and web strap.
It is amazing how elastic those web straps are
at 250% of their rated load....


I'll bet. But why would it take that much pull? You soak the ground
beforehand, oui?


I agree with you, Gunner that an aircraft cable
lanyard is probably the only way to fly.


Yeah, around the footer. I've only pulled one that way but it came
easily.


Pulling un-rotted posts is relatively quick,
but it comprises a very small proportion of the
challenge.

Usually, I find that the post is mostly rotted
at (and below) grade so the challenge is to
pull that mess out of the ground efficiently.
I have not discovered the best way to do this so
I break up the footing with a chipping hammer
and pull the various bits of rotted post and
footing out of the hole by hand.


I found that most of the wood will drill out easily, then I put a
digging bar in the middle of the footer and break it into 4 slabs,
ideally.

There has got to be a better way!

Very occasionally, the post will be so rotted that
I can lift it out of the footing in large pieces.
On those occasions, I undermine the footing with a
shovel, route my web strap through the square hole
and pop the footing out of the ground using the
jack.


There ya go. I need to replace the springs on a farm jack I got which
was in a fire. I think it might work as a post jack, but once it dries
up enough to run that hot lead to my battery, I'll finish the
installation of the little winch on my truck. A triangular steel
framework with a pulley on top (plus a truck/winch) would be ideal for
lots of things.


I fantasize about using some powder actuated
masonry fasteners to attach 'stamp eye' end fittings
to the footer, then popping the mess out of the
ground en masse.


Nevahoiduvit.


Anybody done that? I'm all ears.


I think an 8" eye bolt might be usable. Drill, lag into the somewhat
rotted wood, and pull vertically. As a che^H^H^Hfrugal SOB, I liked
that spare tire puller, but a direct vertical pull is best, I'm sure.

P.S: Boy, are your fantasies dull. Masonry?

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the right versus the left,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales


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Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

I found that most of the wood will drill out easily, then I put a
digging bar in the middle of the footer and break it into 4 slabs,
ideally.


Thassa good idea.

I *had* a nice auger bit bought specifically for that
purpose around here but it lost track of me.

(...)

There ya go. I need to replace the springs on a farm jack I got which
was in a fire. I think it might work as a post jack, but once it dries
up enough to run that hot lead to my battery, I'll finish the
installation of the little winch on my truck. A triangular steel
framework with a pulley on top (plus a truck/winch) would be ideal for
lots of things.


The 'no sweat' approach.

I fantasize about using some powder actuated
masonry fasteners to attach 'stamp eye' end fittings
to the footer, then popping the mess out of the
ground en masse.


Nevahoiduvit.


Still would be faster than anything I've tried before.

Anybody done that? I'm all ears.


I think an 8" eye bolt might be usable. Drill, lag into the somewhat
rotted wood, and pull vertically. As a che^H^H^Hfrugal SOB, I liked
that spare tire puller, but a direct vertical pull is best, I'm sure.


The tensile strength of that rotted wood is about zilch point zip.
It started out life as untreated redwood, with an axial tensile
strength of zip point zero 1. By the time I get to
it, it is holey red mush. An expanding masonry fastener or a
couple powder fasteners into the footing would work 'way better.

P.S: Boy, are your fantasies dull. Masonry?


(Obvious 'hard joke' redacted)

--Winston
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On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:08:12 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I agree with you, Gunner that an aircraft cable
lanyard is probably the only way to fly.


Yeah, around the footer. I've only pulled one that way but it came
easily.



Correct. simply make a loop out of the lanyard, stick the footer in the
loop, so its self tightening, hang it on the hook and crank it out.

Its not rocket science. I did 45 or there abouts a couple years ago,
but I used my forklift as lifting power. Took me about an hour and a
half total, simply lining up, driving to the next one, etc etc.

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein
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On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 22:26:25 -0800, Winston
wrote:

During fence repairs, I sometimes need to
retrieve 3-5 lb. 1"- 4" diameter chunks of
concrete out of a ~15" - 24" deep hole in the ground.

(They are very unevenly shaped pieces.)

Right now, I squat and grab. This is getting
old fast.
--Winston


Can you burn the wood posts (maybe with gasoline) out of the concrete?
Do the posts go all the way through the concrete, i.e., after burning
out the posts you will be left with a square hole all the way through
the concrete?

If so, you could probably find some square steel tubing that will fit
in the hole and fabricate your own "toogle bolt" type of device. Just
put it in the hole of the concrete so that its spring loaded "toogles"
will flair out on the bottom side of the concrete block and yank out
the block with whatever lifting force you want to rig up to this
gadget.

Just an idea.
Dave
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On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:33:39 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

I found that most of the wood will drill out easily, then I put a
digging bar in the middle of the footer and break it into 4 slabs,
ideally.


Thassa good idea.

I *had* a nice auger bit bought specifically for that
purpose around here but it lost track of me.


I got a set of HF 18" augers for $8 and have been using them for a
decade (so far) on things like that. A smaller $4 trio of 18" twist
billdrits accompany it in my truck. Handy!


(...)

There ya go. I need to replace the springs on a farm jack I got which
was in a fire. I think it might work as a post jack, but once it dries
up enough to run that hot lead to my battery, I'll finish the
installation of the little winch on my truck. A triangular steel
framework with a pulley on top (plus a truck/winch) would be ideal for
lots of things.


The 'no sweat' approach.


Precisely. I'm able to appreciate those more and more with age.


I fantasize about using some powder actuated
masonry fasteners to attach 'stamp eye' end fittings
to the footer, then popping the mess out of the
ground en masse.


Nevahoiduvit.


Still would be faster than anything I've tried before.


And there's always the lovely aroma of gunpowder to contemplate.


Anybody done that? I'm all ears.


I think an 8" eye bolt might be usable. Drill, lag into the somewhat
rotted wood, and pull vertically. As a che^H^H^Hfrugal SOB, I liked
that spare tire puller, but a direct vertical pull is best, I'm sure.


The tensile strength of that rotted wood is about zilch point zip.


Luckily, most of the posts I've removed haven't been that far rotted.


It started out life as untreated redwood, with an axial tensile
strength of zip point zero 1. By the time I get to


Yeah, redwood doesn't have the integrity that the absolute lowest
grade of SPF (with brown dye and fungicide on it!) has, does it?
Especially after a dozen years of marination.


it, it is holey red mush. An expanding masonry fastener or a
couple powder fasteners into the footing would work 'way better.


Only if the cement is solid. I've pulled apart some mighty thin-walled
and crumbly footings.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 01:19:07 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:08:12 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I agree with you, Gunner that an aircraft cable
lanyard is probably the only way to fly.


Yeah, around the footer. I've only pulled one that way but it came
easily.



Correct. simply make a loop out of the lanyard, stick the footer in the
loop, so its self tightening, hang it on the hook and crank it out.


You forgot the bit about 3-6" of excavation around the footer first,
though; less if it has a lip.


Its not rocket science. I did 45 or there abouts a couple years ago,
but I used my forklift as lifting power. Took me about an hour and a
half total, simply lining up, driving to the next one, etc etc.


Did you "get" to take all that heavy crap to the dump, while you were
at it? I tend to hire guys for that stuff nowadays, paying them half
the rate I get so I'm still making money on it.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard


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On Dec 30, 3:59*pm, Winston wrote:
Denis G. wrote:

(...)

Hmmm.... * I looked thru some patents too and came up with this:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?...BAJ&dq=6824181
I'm not sure how well it helps you, but maybe it'll give you some
ideas to make something. *You'll probably need to erect a tripod or
gantry crane over the hole to pull out the stone.


For some footings, a similar tool would be ideal.
A grapple that engages the *inside* of the cavity
left in the footing by the rotten fence post.

I've pulled old footings out of the ground using
the old cavity. It's just that I used a web strap
instead of a grapple.

Right now though, I'm looking for a hand tool to
clean out the little pieces rather than the big
pieces.

Thanks!

--Winston


This doesn't solve exactly what you're attempting to do, but there's
an Atlas Copco hydraulic post puller made for road crews:
http://www.crowderhydraulictools.com/post-puller.htm
It's pricey (although maybe you can rent one) and it doesn't solve
your problem of grabbing what you want to pull (big or little). Just
more food for thought.
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:08:34 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 01:19:07 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:08:12 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I agree with you, Gunner that an aircraft cable
lanyard is probably the only way to fly.

Yeah, around the footer. I've only pulled one that way but it came
easily.



Correct. simply make a loop out of the lanyard, stick the footer in the
loop, so its self tightening, hang it on the hook and crank it out.


You forgot the bit about 3-6" of excavation around the footer first,
though; less if it has a lip.


Nope..didnt forget. But that is easy to do with a post hole digger just
to loosen up the dirt so you can get the wire around the stub. Unless
one put the concrete 2 feet down..then its more problematic.


Its not rocket science. I did 45 or there abouts a couple years ago,
but I used my forklift as lifting power. Took me about an hour and a
half total, simply lining up, driving to the next one, etc etc.


Did you "get" to take all that heavy crap to the dump, while you were
at it? I tend to hire guys for that stuff nowadays, paying them half
the rate I get so I'm still making money on it.


Ayup..just tossed the bars of crete into my flat bed and drug em off to
the dump and tossed em into the "land fill" section.

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein
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On Dec 30, 11:54*am, Winston wrote:

The soil is so saturated that digging 'down' causes
the walls to collapse. *The holes aren't getting
deeper, just larger in diameter.

These are gonna be Monster Footings! *


Technical fix: you can put a Sonotube type (cardboard)
form in the big hole, to hold a modest charge of concrete.
The hole sides needn't be the concrete form. Packing soil
around the Sonotube can be done before the pour, or
after.
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whit3rd wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:54 am, wrote:

The soil is so saturated that digging 'down' causes
the walls to collapse. The holes aren't getting
deeper, just larger in diameter.

These are gonna be Monster Footings!


Technical fix: you can put a Sonotube type (cardboard)
form in the big hole, to hold a modest charge of concrete.
The hole sides needn't be the concrete form. Packing soil
around the Sonotube can be done before the pour, or
after.


I solved the problem by waiting until the soil had
dried enough to be self supporting. A few scoops more
and I had sufficient depth. It is still wet mud however.

The Sonotube will save on cement once the hole is at depth.
I pay only 3 bucks and change for a 50 lb sack so I'm
not averse to throwing 2 or 2-1/2 sacks per post.

First post is in, aligned straight and level. Now
to wait for the mud to cure the cement!
I think I can do that.

--Winston

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Denis G. wrote:

(...)

This doesn't solve exactly what you're attempting to do, but there's
an Atlas Copco hydraulic post puller made for road crews:
http://www.crowderhydraulictools.com/post-puller.htm
It's pricey (although maybe you can rent one) and it doesn't solve
your problem of grabbing what you want to pull (big or little). Just
more food for thought.


That is similar in concept to the cart I welded
together for the same purpose, though I grant that
it probably works faster than my little hydraulic
cart!

Turns out that I very rarely need to pull a post
that is still firmly affixed to it's footing.
A vast majority of the time, the post has parted
company with it's footing and my job is to lift
the footing from it's hiding place below grade.

Thanks!

--Winston



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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:33:39 -0800,
wrote:


(...)

I got a set of HF 18" augers for $8 and have been using them for a
decade (so far) on things like that. A smaller $4 trio of 18" twist
billdrits accompany it in my truck. Handy!


I dropped ~ $30. for that missing auger so color me green.

(...)

(power winch)

Precisely. I'm able to appreciate those more and more with age.


I hear ya.

And there's always the lovely aroma of gunpowder to contemplate.


Basement Skeet!

(...)

The tensile strength of that rotted wood is about zilch point zip.


Luckily, most of the posts I've removed haven't been that far rotted.


You are lucky. The stuff I'm working with is quite damp
and *full* of termite trails.

Now I'm dumping about half a box of borax into each hole
just prior to placing the PT posts.

Termites don't like borax. Heh.

(...)

Yeah, redwood doesn't have the integrity that the absolute lowest
grade of SPF (with brown dye and fungicide on it!) has, does it?
Especially after a dozen years of marination.


I dislike redwood but I can't get people to buy teak for
some strange reason.

it, it is holey red mush. An expanding masonry fastener or a
couple powder fasteners into the footing would work 'way better.


Only if the cement is solid. I've pulled apart some mighty thin-walled
and crumbly footings.


As have I, for sure. OTOH, a year back I pulled some 30 year old
footings that had been placed by a friend of mine.
They were solid ~120 lb monsters! The hydraulic cart worked a treat
and they each came out of the ground in one piece.
I'm on the hook for further duty so I want a speedy means of
removing the big'uns.

--Winston
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Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:08:12 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I agree with you, Gunner that an aircraft cable
lanyard is probably the only way to fly.


Yeah, around the footer. I've only pulled one that way but it came
easily.



Correct. simply make a loop out of the lanyard, stick the footer in the
loop, so its self tightening, hang it on the hook and crank it out.

Its not rocket science. I did 45 or there abouts a couple years ago,
but I used my forklift as lifting power. Took me about an hour and a
half total, simply lining up, driving to the next one, etc etc.


A forklift. Bliss!

--Winston
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lid wrote:

(...)

Can you burn the wood posts (maybe with gasoline) out of the concrete?


I kinda doubt it because of all the water, though
to be honest, I have not tried it. I expect that the
wood would act as a wick and merely draw water from
underneath as it steams off the top.

Do the posts go all the way through the concrete, i.e., after burning
out the posts you will be left with a square hole all the way through
the concrete?


Yup. I'm sometimes left with the world's ugliest, stalest, biggest
donut. Normally burning isn't necessary, as the rotted wood *does*
come out of the hole in pieces, with a little convincing.

If so, you could probably find some square steel tubing that will fit
in the hole and fabricate your own "toogle bolt" type of device.


Yup. I was thinking of an internal 'scissor grapple' that would
tighten against the inside of the square hole as lifting force was
applied for those rare instances when I have a 'complete'
footing to remove.

Just
put it in the hole of the concrete so that its spring loaded "toogles"
will flair out on the bottom side of the concrete block and yank out
the block with whatever lifting force you want to rig up to this
gadget.


Most often, I'm left with a few teensy tiny concrete rocks or a
leetle concrete ring. There normally isn't a lot of area to grab.
So the challenge is to find a hand tool that'll generate the couple
hundred lbs of force necessary to grasp and pull little shards out
of the clay a couple feet below grade. My slate bar is a champ for
loosening this stuff up, for example.

--Winston
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:01:05 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:33:39 -0800,
wrote:


(...)

I got a set of HF 18" augers for $8 and have been using them for a
decade (so far) on things like that. A smaller $4 trio of 18" twist
billdrits accompany it in my truck. Handy!


I dropped ~ $30. for that missing auger so color me green.


Ouch!


(...)

(power winch)

Precisely. I'm able to appreciate those more and more with age.


I hear ya.

And there's always the lovely aroma of gunpowder to contemplate.


Basement Skeet!


Kin ewe say "clay dust kaff, kaff, kaff"? I knew yew cud.

(...)

The tensile strength of that rotted wood is about zilch point zip.


Luckily, most of the posts I've removed haven't been that far rotted.


You are lucky. The stuff I'm working with is quite damp
and *full* of termite trails.


WHAT? You must have some mighty hungry termites down there. Dem bugs
prefer every OTHER type of wood to redwood and cedar. But they'll eat
pressure treated lumber nowadays, too. There isn't anything on the
market which is still safe to use.


Now I'm dumping about half a box of borax into each hole
just prior to placing the PT posts.

Termites don't like borax. Heh.


Forget that. Buy some Boracare or TimBor, treat the posts with it,
and then seal them before cementing, so it doesn't marinate off. I'm
painting cuts on PT wood with Jasco Termin-8 preservative.

I had the entire bottom of my house treated with TimBor this year.
http://thepestcontrolstore.com/categ...c=6&cView=prod
I don't think you can use -any- of the above in the Republik of
Kalifornia, though. I think they limit you to flyswatters there.
sigh


(...)

Yeah, redwood doesn't have the integrity that the absolute lowest
grade of SPF (with brown dye and fungicide on it!) has, does it?
Especially after a dozen years of marination.


I dislike redwood but I can't get people to buy teak for
some strange reason.


The quick fix: Find new clients made of money.


it, it is holey red mush. An expanding masonry fastener or a
couple powder fasteners into the footing would work 'way better.


Only if the cement is solid. I've pulled apart some mighty thin-walled
and crumbly footings.


As have I, for sure. OTOH, a year back I pulled some 30 year old
footings that had been placed by a friend of mine.
They were solid ~120 lb monsters! The hydraulic cart worked a treat
and they each came out of the ground in one piece.


Cool.


I'm on the hook for further duty so I want a speedy means of
removing the big'uns.


How big is big? I think I'll build one of these pulleyed bastids.
http://www.fencepostpuller.net/index.html (first video) and use my
winch with it. [I blew leaves into piles this morning (@34F) instead
of wiring the winch. Too CHILLY!]

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:18:22 -0800, Winston
wrote:

wrote:

(...)

Can you burn the wood posts (maybe with gasoline) out of the concrete?


NO, they're usually soaked with water, but if you did, the concrete
would gall and send shards everywhere. Ixnay.


I kinda doubt it because of all the water, though
to be honest, I have not tried it. I expect that the
wood would act as a wick and merely draw water from
underneath as it steams off the top.


Redwood is a nasty thing to burn, too. Ixnay atthay, ootay.


Do the posts go all the way through the concrete, i.e., after burning
out the posts you will be left with a square hole all the way through
the concrete?


Yup. I'm sometimes left with the world's ugliest, stalest, biggest
donut. Normally burning isn't necessary, as the rotted wood *does*
come out of the hole in pieces, with a little convincing.


If so, you could probably find some square steel tubing that will fit
in the hole and fabricate your own "toogle bolt" type of device.


Yup. I was thinking of an internal 'scissor grapple' that would
tighten against the inside of the square hole as lifting force was
applied for those rare instances when I have a 'complete'
footing to remove.


That would simply break it apart, as my digging bar does, unless you
excavate under the concrete plug and can get the jaws to expand beyond
the hole. Then it would simply lift, not spread while it tried.


Just
put it in the hole of the concrete so that its spring loaded "toogles"
will flair out on the bottom side of the concrete block and yank out
the block with whatever lifting force you want to rig up to this
gadget.


Most often, I'm left with a few teensy tiny concrete rocks or a
leetle concrete ring. There normally isn't a lot of area to grab.
So the challenge is to find a hand tool that'll generate the couple
hundred lbs of force necessary to grasp and pull little shards out


The concrete ring would be a heavy bear, but a 1/2" hooked rod should
do it.

of the clay a couple feet below grade. My slate bar is a champ for
loosening this stuff up, for example.


Whoa, how'd you make a bar out of _slate_, Mr. Wizard?
Ain't she fraggle, er, fragile?

sniff, sniff Hmm, smells like my teriyaki boneless beef ribs are
getting done. Time to make the rest of supper.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard


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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:01:05 -0800,
wrote:


(...)

You are lucky. The stuff I'm working with is quite damp
and *full* of termite trails.


WHAT? You must have some mighty hungry termites down there. Dem bugs
prefer every OTHER type of wood to redwood and cedar.


I got some bugs that *love* redwood.

But they'll eat
pressure treated lumber nowadays, too. There isn't anything on the
market which is still safe to use.


I dunno. The PT posts I put in a few years back are still
solid.

Now I'm dumping about half a box of borax into each hole
just prior to placing the PT posts.

Termites don't like borax. Heh.


Forget that. Buy some Boracare or TimBor, treat the posts with it,
and then seal them before cementing, so it doesn't marinate off. I'm
painting cuts on PT wood with Jasco Termin-8 preservative.

I had the entire bottom of my house treated with TimBor this year.
http://thepestcontrolstore.com/categ...c=6&cView=prod
I don't think you can use -any- of the above in the Republik of
Kalifornia, though. I think they limit you to flyswatters there.


They let you have flyswatters?

(...)

Yeah, redwood doesn't have the integrity that the absolute lowest
grade of SPF (with brown dye and fungicide on it!) has, does it?
Especially after a dozen years of marination.


I dislike redwood but I can't get people to buy teak for
some strange reason.


The quick fix: Find new clients made of money.


Ain't it always.

I'm on the hook for further duty so I want a speedy means of
removing the big'uns.


How big is big?


I'd like to be able to pop a ~150 pounder out of the ground
without needing flat space around it. I'm thinking 'tripod'.

I think I'll build one of these pulleyed bastids.
http://www.fencepostpuller.net/index.html (first video) and use my
winch with it.


As Gunner mentioned, a tripod and winch would probably
be way more portable and useful.

--Winston


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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:18:22 -0800,
wrote:


(...)

Yup. I was thinking of an internal 'scissor grapple' that would
tighten against the inside of the square hole as lifting force was
applied for those rare instances when I have a 'complete'
footing to remove.


That would simply break it apart, as my digging bar does, unless you
excavate under the concrete plug and can get the jaws to expand beyond
the hole. Then it would simply lift, not spread while it tried.


The big footings my pal put in would've popped out before
breaking, without question. Mr. Sledge had a heck of a
time breaking them up!

Just
put it in the hole of the concrete so that its spring loaded "toogles"
will flair out on the bottom side of the concrete block and yank out
the block with whatever lifting force you want to rig up to this
gadget.


Still too iffy IMHO. Requires the footing to remain in one piece.
I really like anchoring the ferruled ends of an aircraft
cable loop to a couple three places on the footing and yanking
the whole mess out of the ground via a tripod mounted winch.
It'd work on cracked footing pieces and be Quick and Fun!

Most often, I'm left with a few teensy tiny concrete rocks or a
leetle concrete ring. There normally isn't a lot of area to grab.
So the challenge is to find a hand tool that'll generate the couple
hundred lbs of force necessary to grasp and pull little shards out


The concrete ring would be a heavy bear, but a 1/2" hooked rod should
do it.


The challenge is to have the proper tools on hand
to clean out the hole efficiently, no matter what
size or shape.

of the clay a couple feet below grade. My slate bar is a champ for
loosening this stuff up, for example.


Whoa, how'd you make a bar out of _slate_, Mr. Wizard?
Ain't she fraggle, er, fragile?


http://www.restockit.com/images/Prod...27-1174300.jpg
It's made of steel! About 5' long. Amazingly useful.

sniff, sniff Hmm, smells like my teriyaki boneless beef ribs are
getting done. Time to make the rest of supper.


A pal is dropping by in an hour with Chicken and Dumplings or
BBQ ribs (She can't decide which). I will happily eat either.
Yum!

--Winston
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 16:41:26 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:18:22 -0800,
wrote:


(...)

Yup. I was thinking of an internal 'scissor grapple' that would
tighten against the inside of the square hole as lifting force was
applied for those rare instances when I have a 'complete'
footing to remove.


That would simply break it apart, as my digging bar does, unless you
excavate under the concrete plug and can get the jaws to expand beyond
the hole. Then it would simply lift, not spread while it tried.


The big footings my pal put in would've popped out before
breaking, without question. Mr. Sledge had a heck of a
time breaking them up!


I'll take your word for it.


Just
put it in the hole of the concrete so that its spring loaded "toogles"
will flair out on the bottom side of the concrete block and yank out


Hey, who misspelled "flare" on me?


the block with whatever lifting force you want to rig up to this
gadget.


Still too iffy IMHO. Requires the footing to remain in one piece.
I really like anchoring the ferruled ends of an aircraft
cable loop to a couple three places on the footing and yanking
the whole mess out of the ground via a tripod mounted winch.


I still think I'd prefer a truck-mounted winched model, though I could
still build and use the other type in the occasional odd situation.


It'd work on cracked footing pieces and be Quick and Fun!


Oh, suuuuuure.


Most often, I'm left with a few teensy tiny concrete rocks or a
leetle concrete ring. There normally isn't a lot of area to grab.
So the challenge is to find a hand tool that'll generate the couple
hundred lbs of force necessary to grasp and pull little shards out


The concrete ring would be a heavy bear, but a 1/2" hooked rod should
do it.


The challenge is to have the proper tools on hand
to clean out the hole efficiently, no matter what
size or shape.


Verily. I end up taking 400+ tools on my daily grind. (Right, Gunner?
You, too.)


of the clay a couple feet below grade. My slate bar is a champ for
loosening this stuff up, for example.


Whoa, how'd you make a bar out of _slate_, Mr. Wizard?
Ain't she fraggle, er, fragile?


http://www.restockit.com/images/Prod...27-1174300.jpg
It's made of steel! About 5' long. Amazingly useful.


Mine's an HF special which looks the same but for the dogleg.
My carved up Dodge torsion bar was loaded on the moving van but never
made it into my house when I moved up here. It made a good tamping
bar, and I'd ground a point and notch into it on the other end. Took
forEVER, even with a 36 grit angle grinder stone.


sniff, sniff Hmm, smells like my teriyaki boneless beef ribs are
getting done. Time to make the rest of supper.


A pal is dropping by in an hour with Chicken and Dumplings or
BBQ ribs (She can't decide which). I will happily eat either.
Yum!


My Certified Angus (supposedly "Choice" beef) was tough. Time to get
that guaranteed refund. sigh

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard
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Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Hey, who misspelled "flare" on me?


I thought you meant that it would attach in a stylish manner.

(...)

I still think I'd prefer a truck-mounted winched model, though I could
still build and use the other type in the occasional odd situation.


I work in backyard areas that aren't 'truck accessible'.
My 'odd situation' would be say, in a front yard, next to
the drive way.

(...)

My Certified Angus (supposedly "Choice" beef) was tough. Time to get
that guaranteed refund.sigh


Good luck.

--Winston
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:02:20 -0800, Winston
wrote:
Its not rocket science. I did 45 or there abouts a couple years ago,
but I used my forklift as lifting power. Took me about an hour and a
half total, simply lining up, driving to the next one, etc etc.


A forklift. Bliss!


They get bogged.

I use my Yanmar B13 excavator for lifting.

Most recent job was loading 67 limestone blocks on my trailer.
The hard part was that they had to be loaded under a carport which
was slightly higher than the excavator cab roof, boom would have hit
it at full height.

The blocks were 1 metre x 450 mm x 350 mm and really made the
excavator grunt, especially with the boom fully extended to load the
far side of the trailer. Original weight guesstimate was about 150
kg, revised version was 220+.

Alan


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Winston wrote:

As Gunner mentioned, a tripod and winch would probably
be way more portable and useful.

Hell, in the time you've wasted flogging this on USENET, you could
have already dug them out by hand and be done!

I'm reminded of the time I took a couple of rolls of coins to the store,
and the girl said, "Oh, these have to be weighed." I said, OK, or I
could dump them out and count them. But she wasn't having any of that.
She had to leave the checkout station to go get a supervisor and tell
her that the coins needed to be weighed, while I stood aside and let her
serve the other folks in the line (she had come back from notifying the
supervisor, who had my coins); finally, the supervisor weighed the rolls
of coins and approved them. The girl came back and said, "OK", and I
said, "well, I could have just counted them right here on the counter,
you know. two, four, six, eight, ten, and so on and I'd have already been
out of here!" Apparently, that concept was beyond the grasp of her
uncomplicated mind.

Good Luck!
Rich

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On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 04:42:15 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

I turn the chain grab hook sideways and hook the lever hoist into the
D ring, to protect the hoist chain.
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/F...88505171720306
That shows the tripod and hoist, not the tongs which I bought later.
The points aren't sharp so concrete shouldn't damage them much. I have
to pound them into a log with an axe.

jsw


What thickness pipe is that and how do you secure the top end?

What's the load capacity of the tripod?

RWL

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On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 07:29:29 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Hey, who misspelled "flare" on me?


I thought you meant that it would attach in a stylish manner.


That must have been it.


(...)

I still think I'd prefer a truck-mounted winched model, though I could
still build and use the other type in the occasional odd situation.


I work in backyard areas that aren't 'truck accessible'.
My 'odd situation' would be say, in a front yard, next to
the drive way.


Oh, I forgot. You live in one of those places where it's legal to put
homes SIX FEET APART. sigh

--
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when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
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Rich Grise wrote:
Winston wrote:

As Gunner mentioned, a tripod and winch would probably
be way more portable and useful.

Hell, in the time you've wasted flogging this on USENET, you could
have already dug them out by hand and be done!


That project is long done. I was looking for a metal
tool or a tool I could make from metal to speed
the process up, next time I need to replace fence
posts. I figured it would be useful info for other
recreational metalworkers too.

I will adhere to the charter more diligently in
the future.

Sorry to take you away from your religious and
political diatribes.

Carry on.


--Winston
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On Jan 1, 4:09*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 04:42:15 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/F...88505171720306
jsw


What thickness pipe is that and how do you secure the top end?

What's the load capacity of the tripod?

RWL


The pipe is 8' x 2-3/8" chain link fence posts, for lightness. A 100
Lb, 2" water pipe tripod was too difficult to carry and set up on
rough ground, though fine around the yard.

Here is the top connection:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/F...53233283600002

I wrote a paragraph explaining the engineering, then reconsidered and
deleted it. Good luck, you're on your own if you get hurt.

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