I guess it all depends on if you are getting death tax personally or not. Then it is a big deal! Many ranches in the West have been inherited for two or more generations. Now, because of continuing inflation, the ranch is worth many millions in current dollars. Nothing on the ranch has changed. Only inflation. So, now the Government wants to charge the estate for the inflation the Government has created. There is no money available to pay the inflation/death tax, so the ranch has to be sold with short notice for what the family can get for it.

People should really stop with the "inheritance tax" and "death tax" and start calling it what it really is, "inflation tax".

Paul

On 12/22/2010 02:25 PM, KD7HB wrote:
I guess it all depends on if you are getting death tax personally or not. Then it is a big deal!
Many ranches in the West have been inherited for two or more generations.

Oh? How many? Do you have addresses? We already know that it's a
small amount compared to the number of large estates held as publicly
traded stock. So what overwhelmingly big number makes it "many".

Now, because of continuing inflation, the ranch is worth many millions
in current dollars. Nothing on the ranch has changed. Only inflation.

So they started out rich, and they still are. But because of inflation
"rich" has some more zeros after the significant digits.

So, now the Government wants to charge the estate for the inflation
the Government has created.

Ahh. And government is the only driver for inflation. So, how much
benefit have these ranches accrued over the years from government -- if
"nothing has changed", then that has to be in part because government
has kept those ranches from being taken over by land pirates, or the
Japanise -- you value that service at absolutely nil?

There is no money available to pay the
inflation/death tax, so the ranch has to be sold with short notice
for what the family can get for it.

Then the family is the victim of its own ****-poor planning. If you're
alive then you're going to die, and if you're living somewhere that has
estate taxes then you should certainly plan on it.


People should really stop with the "inheritance tax" and "death tax"
and start calling it what it really is, "inflation tax".

Call it the "I want everything for nothing tax" and you'll cover just
about any tax that an anti-tax boomer refers to.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Dec 22, 6:48*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:

Then the family is the victim of its own ****-poor planning. *If you're
alive then you're going to die, and if you're living somewhere that has
estate taxes then you should certainly plan on it.


Call it the "I want everything for nothing tax" and you'll cover just
about any tax that an anti-tax boomer refers to.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com


In general Estate Taxes can be avoided in a number of ways. So the
Estate Tax is really more of a good deal for financial planners and
insurance agents. The question is " Should the government help
accountants? " And if so why? Million of dollars go for evading the
Estate Tax. Surely it would be better to encourage people to do
something productive with the money instead of paying for estate
planning and tax advice.

You can call it the " I want everything for nothing tax " or call it "
The government wants more money tax ".

Some of the states are pretty bad about estate taxes. My brother in
law died this year. He was a Virginia citizen and owned property in
Virginia. Unfortunately he also owned a summer place in New York
State. So my sister had to pay estate tax to New York on the property
in New York. No surprise there. But she also had to pay estate tax
to New York on the property in Virginia. I call that the"New York
State wants your money tax".


Dan

On 2010-12-23, wrote:

In general Estate Taxes can be avoided in a number of ways. So the
Estate Tax is really more of a good deal for financial planners and
insurance agents. The question is " Should the government help
accountants? " And if so why? Million of dollars go for evading
the Estate Tax. Surely it would be better to encourage people to do
something productive with the money instead of paying for estate
planning and tax advice.

Dan, what you say is true only for medium size estates
(millions). Lots of money can be gifted (26k per year for married
couple per child and grandchild), put in life insurance, etc.

Say, 26k per year given to two children and four grandchildren, over
20 years, amounts to 26,000*6*20=3,120,000. Not bad. To add to this
cash gifts, appliances and other hanky panky, which must be declared
above 26k, but hard to prove, and a few extra mils can be passed
along.

But that is "lots" by our standards. For larger estates, as far as I
know, there is no easy or legal way to avoid estate tax.

So, essentially, small to medium sized estates can usually avoid much
of the taxation. Estate tax applies mostly to the "big guys".

You can call it the " I want everything for nothing tax " or call it "
The government wants more money tax ".

Some of the states are pretty bad about estate taxes. My brother in
law died this year. He was a Virginia citizen and owned property in
Virginia. Unfortunately he also owned a summer place in New York
State. So my sister had to pay estate tax to New York on the property
in New York. No surprise there. But she also had to pay estate tax
to New York on the property in Virginia. I call that the"New York
State wants your money tax".

I agree with you here.

i

On 2010-12-23, Ignoramus29073 wrote:
On 2010-12-23, wrote:

In general Estate Taxes can be avoided in a number of ways. So the
Estate Tax is really more of a good deal for financial planners and
insurance agents. The question is " Should the government help
accountants? " And if so why? Million of dollars go for evading
the Estate Tax. Surely it would be better to encourage people to do
something productive with the money instead of paying for estate
planning and tax advice.

Dan, what you say is true only for medium size estates
(millions). Lots of money can be gifted (26k per year for married
couple per child and grandchild), put in life insurance, etc.

Say, 26k per year given to two children and four grandchildren, over
20 years, amounts to 26,000*6*20=3,120,000. Not bad. To add to this

Add to this the money gifted to spouses of children.

26,000*8*20=4,160,000

i

On Dec 22, 8:07*pm, Ignoramus29073 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29073.invalid wrote:

Dan, what you say is true only for medium size estates
(millions). Lots of money can be gifted (26k per year for married
couple per child and grandchild), put in life insurance, etc.

Say, 26k per year given to two children and four grandchildren, over
20 years, amounts to 26,000*6*20=3,120,000. Not bad. To add to this
cash gifts, appliances and other hanky panky, which must be declared
above 26k, but hard to prove, and a few extra mils can be passed
along.

But that is "lots" by our standards. For larger estates, as far as I
know, there is no easy or legal way to avoid estate tax.

So, essentially, small to medium sized estates can usually avoid much
of the taxation. Estate tax applies mostly to the "big guys".


Yes you can give away a lot of money. But I would rather keep control
of my money until I die and let my wife have control until she dies.
But this is not a good strategy with the current laws. In other words
one can avoid estate tax, but it costs you to do so.

I believe there are ways to avoid Estate Taxes for the "big guys"
too. Maybe you can not avoid all estate taxes, but the " big guys "
can avoid all but about 10% by using insurance and trusts.

Dan

?
wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 8:07 pm, Ignoramus29073 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29073.invalid wrote:

Dan, what you say is true only for medium size estates
(millions). Lots of money can be gifted (26k per year for married
couple per child and grandchild), put in life insurance, etc.

Say, 26k per year given to two children and four grandchildren, over
20 years, amounts to 26,000*6*20=3,120,000. Not bad. To add to this
cash gifts, appliances and other hanky panky, which must be declared
above 26k, but hard to prove, and a few extra mils can be passed
along.

But that is "lots" by our standards. For larger estates, as far as I
know, there is no easy or legal way to avoid estate tax.

So, essentially, small to medium sized estates can usually avoid much
of the taxation. Estate tax applies mostly to the "big guys".


Yes you can give away a lot of money. But I would rather keep control
of my money until I die and let my wife have control until she dies.
But this is not a good strategy with the current laws. In other words
one can avoid estate tax, but it costs you to do so.

I believe there are ways to avoid Estate Taxes for the "big guys"
too. Maybe you can not avoid all estate taxes, but the " big guys "
can avoid all but about 10% by using insurance and trusts.

Dan

Up untill a few years ago some people with very large estates would
simply resign thier us citizenship and become citizens of another country
to avoid US taxes alltogether. That loophole has been pluged, but it
was a way to pass along wealth.

Best Regards
Tom.

azotic wrote:
?
wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 8:07 pm, Ignoramus29073 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29073.invalid wrote:

Dan, what you say is true only for medium size estates
(millions). Lots of money can be gifted (26k per year for married
couple per child and grandchild), put in life insurance, etc.

Say, 26k per year given to two children and four grandchildren, over
20 years, amounts to 26,000*6*20=3,120,000. Not bad. To add to this
cash gifts, appliances and other hanky panky, which must be declared
above 26k, but hard to prove, and a few extra mils can be passed
along.

But that is "lots" by our standards. For larger estates, as far as I
know, there is no easy or legal way to avoid estate tax.

So, essentially, small to medium sized estates can usually avoid much
of the taxation. Estate tax applies mostly to the "big guys".


Yes you can give away a lot of money. But I would rather keep control
of my money until I die and let my wife have control until she dies.
But this is not a good strategy with the current laws. In other words
one can avoid estate tax, but it costs you to do so.

I believe there are ways to avoid Estate Taxes for the "big guys"
too. Maybe you can not avoid all estate taxes, but the " big guys "
can avoid all but about 10% by using insurance and trusts.

Dan

Up untill a few years ago some people with very large estates would
simply resign thier us citizenship and become citizens of another country
to avoid US taxes alltogether. That loophole has been pluged, but it
was a way to pass along wealth.

Best Regards
Tom.


There is a way to do it with an intentionally defective trust set up.

John

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 18:30:28 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:07*pm, Ignoramus29073 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29073.invalid wrote:

Dan, what you say is true only for medium size estates
(millions). Lots of money can be gifted (26k per year for married
couple per child and grandchild), put in life insurance, etc.

Say, 26k per year given to two children and four grandchildren, over
20 years, amounts to 26,000*6*20=3,120,000. Not bad. To add to this
cash gifts, appliances and other hanky panky, which must be declared
above 26k, but hard to prove, and a few extra mils can be passed
along.

But that is "lots" by our standards. For larger estates, as far as I
know, there is no easy or legal way to avoid estate tax.

So, essentially, small to medium sized estates can usually avoid much
of the taxation. Estate tax applies mostly to the "big guys".


Yes you can give away a lot of money. But I would rather keep control
of my money until I die and let my wife have control until she dies.
But this is not a good strategy with the current laws. In other words
one can avoid estate tax, but it costs you to do so.

I believe there are ways to avoid Estate Taxes for the "big guys"
too. Maybe you can not avoid all estate taxes, but the " big guys "
can avoid all but about 10% by using insurance and trusts.

Dan
Whatever you do, have your will properly drawn up by someone who knows
what they are doing.Do NOT use one of the do-it-yourself kits that
claim to be "lawer approved", of course lawers (some, at least)
approve of them - they stand to make much more in fees for their work
in straightening out the do-it-yourself screw ups.

On 12/22/2010 2:25 PM, KD7HB wrote:
I guess it all depends on if you are getting death tax personally or not. Then it is a big deal!

Many ranches in the West have been inherited for two or more generations.

Now, because of continuing inflation, the ranch is worth many millions
in current dollars.

Nothing on the ranch has changed. Only inflation. So, now the Government
wants to charge the estate

for the inflation the Government has created. There is no money
available to pay the inflation/death tax,

so the ranch has to be sold with short notice for what the family can
get for it.

People should really stop with the "inheritance tax" and "death tax" and start calling it what it really is,

"inflation tax".

Paul


They should be calling it what it is. The estate tax. It's a tax on
estates, period. And it only applies to less than 2% of all Americans so
most of you have no chance of ever having anything to do with it. It
also has an exemption for individuals of 3.5 million and 7 million for a
couple. In my view that's pretty generous. If you have a 7 million
dollar piece of property when you die you don't pay anything on it.

Not only that the tax is more for the really rich. Those people with
estates going into the billions. They make up most of the money paid in
too. It takes a lot of million dollar ranches to equal a one billion
dollar estate.

What this is really about is the really rich trying to keep from being
taxed. The Walton family alone would save billions in taxes if the tax
is abolished. So they're actively pushing to end the tax permanently.
But why shouldn't we all start out life fairly equally? Why should
people named Walton begin life with 100s of millions of dollars? All
that happens if you don't tax the big estates is you get an elite group
of wealthy aristocrats who are born to wealth. That's not what Americans
have ever wanted. You start out the same and everyone gets a fair chance
to make their own way in life. But you can't blame the billionaires for
wanting to keep all their money in the family no matter how unfair that
may be to everyone else.

Hawke

On 12/22/2010 6:59 PM, azotic wrote:
?
wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 8:07 pm, Ignoramus29073 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29073.invalid wrote:

Dan, what you say is true only for medium size estates
(millions). Lots of money can be gifted (26k per year for married
couple per child and grandchild), put in life insurance, etc.

Say, 26k per year given to two children and four grandchildren, over
20 years, amounts to 26,000*6*20=3,120,000. Not bad. To add to this
cash gifts, appliances and other hanky panky, which must be declared
above 26k, but hard to prove, and a few extra mils can be passed
along.

But that is "lots" by our standards. For larger estates, as far as I
know, there is no easy or legal way to avoid estate tax.

So, essentially, small to medium sized estates can usually avoid much
of the taxation. Estate tax applies mostly to the "big guys".


Yes you can give away a lot of money. But I would rather keep control
of my money until I die and let my wife have control until she dies.
But this is not a good strategy with the current laws. In other words
one can avoid estate tax, but it costs you to do so.

I believe there are ways to avoid Estate Taxes for the "big guys"
too. Maybe you can not avoid all estate taxes, but the " big guys "
can avoid all but about 10% by using insurance and trusts.

Dan

Up untill a few years ago some people with very large estates would
simply resign thier us citizenship and become citizens of another country
to avoid US taxes alltogether. That loophole has been pluged, but it
was a way to pass along wealth.

Best Regards
Tom.


I don't think many people believe that you shouldn't be able to leave
something to your children. But I think it's a matter of degree. I don't
see anything wrong with leaving an individual child even a million
dollars or even more. But when you start talking tens or hundreds of
millions or even billions I draw the line. It's one thing to leave your
kids with a nest egg or some money to use to be successful. But not so
much that you create monsters. All you have to do is look at the young
people who get huge amounts of money when they are not mature. They wind
up dead a lot of the time. No problem leaving some money to the next
generation, in my view. But not fortunes.

Hawke