At this point, after adjusting the base period, there are no more
following errors. It seems that, in the straight gear, rigid tapping
works just fine.

I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.

Based on some calculations involving horsepower, torque, and tapping
torque requirements, I have some numbers to work with.

3 HP at 500 RPM gives 31.5 ft-lb. After adjusting for transmission
losses, I would say that I can easily have 20 ft-lb available for
tapping at 500 RPM.

According to

http://www.parlec.com/pages/tapping_...rements_speeds

In steel, I can tap up to 9/16" in steel and stay under 20 ft-lbs, and
up to 7/8" in brass and stay under 20 ft-lbs.

So, my back gear reversal issues, really, are of minor importance if I
do not tap in back gear. I rarely tap anything over 1/2", so I can do
most of my work in the way I am set up right now.

i

CLIP
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.
CLIP

What type of floating tap holder? Also, I presume it only offers linear
float and not radial.

I've yet to play with the linear float ER-style collets that go into
standard spindles... But they sell like hotcakes. (How do hotcakes sell
anyhow? That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real historical
reference...)

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/AutoDrill-Facebook

V8013-R

On 2010-12-17, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
CLIP
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.
CLIP

What type of floating tap holder? Also, I presume it only offers linear
float and not radial.

http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders...duct_info.html

Linear tap holder, no radial float.

I've yet to play with the linear float ER-style collets that go into
standard spindles... But they sell like hotcakes. (How do hotcakes sell
anyhow? That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real historical
reference...)

I am not, yet, sure if I need a floating tap holder as such, but I
think that it will keep me a little safer.

i

"Joe AutoDrill" fired this volley in news:GpKOo.2938
:

That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real historical
reference...)


I haven't found it, Joe, but the expression is "dead to nuts", and usually
carries "accurate" as part of the phrase.

I have not located an etymology yet, but I'm betting it has to do with
either a machining/machinery term like adjustments of (say) a screw, or an
artillery term.

LLoyd

Ignoramus6780 wrote:

At this point, after adjusting the base period, there are no more
following errors. It seems that, in the straight gear, rigid tapping
works just fine.

I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.

Based on some calculations involving horsepower, torque, and tapping
torque requirements, I have some numbers to work with.

3 HP at 500 RPM gives 31.5 ft-lb. After adjusting for transmission
losses, I would say that I can easily have 20 ft-lb available for
tapping at 500 RPM.

According to

http://www.parlec.com/pages/tapping_...rements_speeds

In steel, I can tap up to 9/16" in steel and stay under 20 ft-lbs, and
up to 7/8" in brass and stay under 20 ft-lbs.

So, my back gear reversal issues, really, are of minor importance if I
do not tap in back gear. I rarely tap anything over 1/2", so I can do
most of my work in the way I am set up right now.

i

Try tapping some machinable wax with a moderately large tap like 1/2-13
so if something does go wrong it's more likely that the wax threads will
rip out vs. breaking a tap.

On 2010-12-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus6780 wrote:

At this point, after adjusting the base period, there are no more
following errors. It seems that, in the straight gear, rigid tapping
works just fine.

I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.

Based on some calculations involving horsepower, torque, and tapping
torque requirements, I have some numbers to work with.

3 HP at 500 RPM gives 31.5 ft-lb. After adjusting for transmission
losses, I would say that I can easily have 20 ft-lb available for
tapping at 500 RPM.

According to

http://www.parlec.com/pages/tapping_...rements_speeds

In steel, I can tap up to 9/16" in steel and stay under 20 ft-lbs, and
up to 7/8" in brass and stay under 20 ft-lbs.

So, my back gear reversal issues, really, are of minor importance if I
do not tap in back gear. I rarely tap anything over 1/2", so I can do
most of my work in the way I am set up right now.

i

Try tapping some machinable wax with a moderately large tap like 1/2-13
so if something does go wrong it's more likely that the wax threads will
rip out vs. breaking a tap.

I wrote some code, will execute it a little later, probably in wax
first and then in steel. I will try to shoot a video.

i

By the way, forgot to mention. I have three aluminum plates that are
approximately 12" wide, 30" long, 3/4" thick, and have handles on
them.

I wanted to drill a rectangular set of tapped holes in it, probably
1/4-20 holes on every inch of a 10x24" area, so it would be 240 holes.

I have a theory that then I could sell the plates for big bucks, as
layout/fixturing plates.

i

Ignoramus30138 wrote:

By the way, forgot to mention. I have three aluminum plates that are
approximately 12" wide, 30" long, 3/4" thick, and have handles on
them.

I wanted to drill a rectangular set of tapped holes in it, probably
1/4-20 holes on every inch of a 10x24" area, so it would be 240 holes.

I have a theory that then I could sell the plates for big bucks, as
layout/fixturing plates.

i

Remember that 1/2-13 hold down hardware is the norm for Bridgeport sized
machines, so 1/4-20 wouldn't be very popular.

On 2010-12-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus30138 wrote:

By the way, forgot to mention. I have three aluminum plates that are
approximately 12" wide, 30" long, 3/4" thick, and have handles on
them.

I wanted to drill a rectangular set of tapped holes in it, probably
1/4-20 holes on every inch of a 10x24" area, so it would be 240 holes.

I have a theory that then I could sell the plates for big bucks, as
layout/fixturing plates.

i

Remember that 1/2-13 hold down hardware is the norm for Bridgeport sized
machines, so 1/4-20 wouldn't be very popular.

Well, if so, I will make 1/2-13 holes. I will try to do it with a form
tap, since this is aluminum. I would space the holes a little wider
then, maybe one every 2 inches.


i

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Ignoramus30138 wrote:

By the way, forgot to mention. I have three aluminum plates that are
approximately 12" wide, 30" long, 3/4" thick, and have handles on
them.

I wanted to drill a rectangular set of tapped holes in it, probably
1/4-20 holes on every inch of a 10x24" area, so it would be 240 holes.

I have a theory that then I could sell the plates for big bucks, as
layout/fixturing plates.

i

Remember that 1/2-13 hold down hardware is the norm for Bridgeport sized
machines, so 1/4-20 wouldn't be very popular.

The 1/4-20 holes on 1" centers are standard for optical breadboard
breadboard plates like those below. They do sell for big bucks retail, but
the problem is marketing them to a limited clientelle. On ebay,
lightly-used plates go for about a third of new prices, but then at those
prices you have to ask if it is worth your time plus the cost of aluminum.

I saw a video once of how they make this table tops. They have a massive
array of multiple spindles that drils and taps all the holes at once in a
few seconds.

http://www.thorlabs.com/NewGroupPage...ctGroup_ID=159

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:23:31 -0600, Ignoramus30138
wrote:

On 2010-12-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus30138 wrote:

By the way, forgot to mention. I have three aluminum plates that are
approximately 12" wide, 30" long, 3/4" thick, and have handles on
them.

I wanted to drill a rectangular set of tapped holes in it, probably
1/4-20 holes on every inch of a 10x24" area, so it would be 240 holes.

I have a theory that then I could sell the plates for big bucks, as
layout/fixturing plates.

i

Remember that 1/2-13 hold down hardware is the norm for Bridgeport sized
machines, so 1/4-20 wouldn't be very popular.

Well, if so, I will make 1/2-13 holes. I will try to do it with a form
tap, since this is aluminum. I would space the holes a little wider
then, maybe one every 2 inches.


i

If a form tap raises a little metal around the hole, would you
counterbore very slightly afterward with an end mill? Just thinking
out loud. I've never used a form tap, but it works by displacing
metal, so I'd expect a slight ridge unless the hole is countersunk
first or cleaned up after.

Pete Keillor

On 12/17/2010 06:52 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Joe fired this volley in news:GpKOo.2938
:

That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real historical
reference...)


I haven't found it, Joe, but the expression is "dead to nuts", and usually
carries "accurate" as part of the phrase.

I have not located an etymology yet, but I'm betting it has to do with
either a machining/machinery term like adjustments of (say) a screw, or an
artillery term.

I've also heard "dead nuts on", quoted from Marine helicopter pilots
about a targeting system.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Pete Keillor wrote:

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:23:31 -0600, Ignoramus30138
wrote:

On 2010-12-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus30138 wrote:

By the way, forgot to mention. I have three aluminum plates that are
approximately 12" wide, 30" long, 3/4" thick, and have handles on
them.

I wanted to drill a rectangular set of tapped holes in it, probably
1/4-20 holes on every inch of a 10x24" area, so it would be 240 holes.

I have a theory that then I could sell the plates for big bucks, as
layout/fixturing plates.

i

Remember that 1/2-13 hold down hardware is the norm for Bridgeport sized
machines, so 1/4-20 wouldn't be very popular.

Well, if so, I will make 1/2-13 holes. I will try to do it with a form
tap, since this is aluminum. I would space the holes a little wider
then, maybe one every 2 inches.


i

If a form tap raises a little metal around the hole, would you
counterbore very slightly afterward with an end mill? Just thinking
out loud. I've never used a form tap, but it works by displacing
metal, so I'd expect a slight ridge unless the hole is countersunk
first or cleaned up after.

Pete Keillor

A chamfering pass with a countersink bit would take care of the ridge.

On 12/16/2010 11:17 PM, Ignoramus6780 wrote:
At this point, after adjusting the base period, there are no more
following errors. It seems that, in the straight gear, rigid tapping
works just fine.

Using a PPMC, you should not even HAVE a base period. only the
SERVO_PERIOD is used.

One gotcha is that the TRAJ_PERIOD should be the same as the
SERVO_PERIOD, so the trajectory planner keeps up better with the spindle
reversal.
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.

I have done it with a tap in a Jacob's chuck, it works fine.


So, my back gear reversal issues, really, are of minor importance if I
do not tap in back gear. I rarely tap anything over 1/2", so I can do
most of my work in the way I am set up right now.
If you want to, then you can rig a switch that is activated by the
back-gear lever, and reverses the motor command to the VFD. then, M03
will always provide the proper spindle rotation no matter what gear you
are in. One of these DAYS...... I'll do that myself, too.

Jon

On 2010-12-17, Jon Elson wrote:
On 12/16/2010 11:17 PM, Ignoramus6780 wrote:
At this point, after adjusting the base period, there are no more
following errors. It seems that, in the straight gear, rigid tapping
works just fine.

Using a PPMC, you should not even HAVE a base period. only the
SERVO_PERIOD is used.

One gotcha is that the TRAJ_PERIOD should be the same as the
SERVO_PERIOD, so the trajectory planner keeps up better with the spindle
reversal.

This is exactly what I did, based on your older post.

I just worded my sentence poorly.

I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.

I have done it with a tap in a Jacob's chuck, it works fine.

Very nice.


So, my back gear reversal issues, really, are of minor importance if I
do not tap in back gear. I rarely tap anything over 1/2", so I can do
most of my work in the way I am set up right now.
If you want to, then you can rig a switch that is activated by the
back-gear lever, and reverses the motor command to the VFD. then, M03
will always provide the proper spindle rotation no matter what gear you
are in. One of these DAYS...... I'll do that myself, too.

Yes, this is actually a good idea.

Ignoramus30138 fired this volley in
:

If you want to, then you can rig a switch that is activated by the
back-gear lever, and reverses the motor command to the VFD. then, M03
will always provide the proper spindle rotation no matter what gear you
are in. One of these DAYS...... I'll do that myself, too.

Yes, this is actually a good idea.

One DPDT relay will do it, Ig. Don't make it too complicated.

LLoyd

On 2010-12-17, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus30138 fired this volley in
:

If you want to, then you can rig a switch that is activated by the
back-gear lever, and reverses the motor command to the VFD. then, M03
will always provide the proper spindle rotation no matter what gear you
are in. One of these DAYS...... I'll do that myself, too.

Yes, this is actually a good idea.

One DPDT relay will do it, Ig. Don't make it too complicated.


I sopmewhat agree and smoewhat disagree.

The reason why I may want to put it in EMC2 config logic, is that it
is more documentable and easier to track down, compared to some six
additional relay wires inside the control cabinet.

i

Ignoramus30138 fired this volley in
:

The reason why I may want to put it in EMC2 config logic, is that it
is more documentable and easier to track down, compared to some six
additional relay wires inside the control cabinet.

You still have to electrically sense the position of the shift lever, Ig.
G

LLoyd

On 2010-12-17, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus30138 fired this volley in
:

The reason why I may want to put it in EMC2 config logic, is that it
is more documentable and easier to track down, compared to some six
additional relay wires inside the control cabinet.

You still have to electrically sense the position of the shift lever, Ig.
G

Right, but it is just two wires, much less to deal with.

i

Ignoramus30138 wrote:
On 2010-12-17, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus30138 fired this volley in
:

The reason why I may want to put it in EMC2 config logic, is that it
is more documentable and easier to track down, compared to some six
additional relay wires inside the control cabinet.
You still have to electrically sense the position of the shift lever, Ig.
G

Right, but it is just two wires, much less to deal with.

i


Uh-huh...

For the how-manyith times?

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
:

CLIP
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon
as practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially
with a floating tap holder.
CLIP

What type of floating tap holder? Also, I presume it only offers
linear float and not radial.

I've yet to play with the linear float ER-style collets that go into
standard spindles... But they sell like hotcakes. (How do hotcakes
sell anyhow? That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real
historical reference...)

What I've always wanted to know is just HOW happy ARE clams? And how can
you tell?

Doug White

On 12/17/2010 04:13 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

The reason why I may want to put it in EMC2 config logic, is that it
is more documentable and easier to track down, compared to some six
additional relay wires inside the control cabinet.

You still have to electrically sense the position of the shift lever, Ig.
So, a single-pole sense switch wired to an available general purpose
digital input, and then connected to the appropriate logic through HAL.
That's how I'd do it today.

Jon

Doug White wrote:

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
:

CLIP
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon
as practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially
with a floating tap holder.
CLIP

What type of floating tap holder? Also, I presume it only offers
linear float and not radial.

I've yet to play with the linear float ER-style collets that go into
standard spindles... But they sell like hotcakes. (How do hotcakes
sell anyhow? That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real
historical reference...)

What I've always wanted to know is just HOW happy ARE clams? And how can
you tell?

Doug White

The happy clams are roughly as happy as a pig in ****...

Ignoramus30138 wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:16:06 -0600:

By the way, forgot to mention. I have three aluminum plates that are
approximately 12" wide, 30" long, 3/4" thick, and have handles on
them.

I wanted to drill a rectangular set of tapped holes in it, probably
1/4-20 holes on every inch of a 10x24" area, so it would be 240 holes.

I have a theory that then I could sell the plates for big bucks, as
layout/fixturing plates.


We do that at work all the time.
We start with a grid of 1/2-13 helicoil tapped holes.
Brass plugs are made that just fit flush to the top.
The whole thing is fly cut to true-up the surface.
Helicoil inserts are added as needed to hold parts, vices fixtures
etc.
Different plugs are used to block off holes that have the inserts in
them.

Wouldn't anyone that would need such a plate be able to make it
themselves anyway?
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:40:19 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
:

CLIP
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon
as practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially
with a floating tap holder.
CLIP

What type of floating tap holder? Also, I presume it only offers
linear float and not radial.

I've yet to play with the linear float ER-style collets that go into
standard spindles... But they sell like hotcakes. (How do hotcakes
sell anyhow? That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real
historical reference...)

What I've always wanted to know is just HOW happy ARE clams? And how can
you tell?

Every one of them is happy now. After all, CLAMS GOT LEGS!

--
The art of life lies in a constant readjustment to our surroundings.
-- Okakura Kakuzo

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:40:19 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
:

CLIP
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon
as practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially
with a floating tap holder.
CLIP

What type of floating tap holder? Also, I presume it only offers
linear float and not radial.

I've yet to play with the linear float ER-style collets that go into
standard spindles... But they sell like hotcakes. (How do hotcakes
sell anyhow? That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no
real historical reference...)

What I've always wanted to know is just HOW happy ARE clams? And how
can you tell?

Every one of them is happy now. After all, CLAMS GOT LEGS!

Including the one who has got HANDS!

Doug White (getting a bit off topic here...)

On 2010-12-17, Jon Elson wrote:
On 12/17/2010 04:13 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

The reason why I may want to put it in EMC2 config logic, is that it
is more documentable and easier to track down, compared to some six
additional relay wires inside the control cabinet.

You still have to electrically sense the position of the shift lever, Ig.
So, a single-pole sense switch wired to an available general purpose
digital input, and then connected to the appropriate logic through HAL.
That's how I'd do it today.

Yes, much easier than mounting a relay etc. Plus, it is somewhat more
straightforward, although I agree that other people may feel differently.

i

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:17:30 -0600, Ignoramus6780
wrote:

At this point, after adjusting the base period, there are no more
following errors. It seems that, in the straight gear, rigid tapping
works just fine.

I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.

Based on some calculations involving horsepower, torque, and tapping
torque requirements, I have some numbers to work with.

3 HP at 500 RPM gives 31.5 ft-lb. After adjusting for transmission
losses, I would say that I can easily have 20 ft-lb available for
tapping at 500 RPM.

According to

http://www.parlec.com/pages/tapping_...rements_speeds

In steel, I can tap up to 9/16" in steel and stay under 20 ft-lbs, and
up to 7/8" in brass and stay under 20 ft-lbs.

So, my back gear reversal issues, really, are of minor importance if I
do not tap in back gear. I rarely tap anything over 1/2", so I can do
most of my work in the way I am set up right now.

i

Get yourself some delrin or nylon and try it in plastic.

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:32:50 -0600, Ignoramus30138
wrote:

On 2010-12-17, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
CLIP
I have not tried it with real material, yet, but will do so as soon as
practicable. I am not expecting too many surprises, especially with a
floating tap holder.
CLIP

What type of floating tap holder? Also, I presume it only offers linear
float and not radial.

http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders...duct_info.html

Linear tap holder, no radial float.

I've yet to play with the linear float ER-style collets that go into
standard spindles... But they sell like hotcakes. (How do hotcakes sell
anyhow? That's like the old saying "dead nuts" which has no real historical
reference...)

I am not, yet, sure if I need a floating tap holder as such, but I
think that it will keep me a little safer.

i

Keep in mind that a 75% feed rate works pretty good with a linear
tapping setup

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

John R. Carroll wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:26:20 -0800:

dan wrote:
Ignoramus30138 wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:16:06 -0600:

Wouldn't anyone that would need such a plate be able to make it
themselves anyway?

Money.
A machine in production is generating $100/Hr or so in sales - at least.
Why disrupt that to make something that can be purchased for a lot less?

Well.... I can't speak for all shops, but at the shop I work at, we
wouldn't be sure of the exact size we want until we see how much
clearance we would need, and were the mounting locations on the
machine table are. And once we know all that, it's quicker making it
rather than ordering it.

Once made and installed, it lasts the life the machine usually.

But don't let me discourage you. You may be very successful in your
endeavor. Give it a shot.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

Ignoramus30138 wrote:
On 2010-12-17, Pete wrote:

(...)

Remember that 1/2-13 hold down hardware is the norm for Bridgeport sized
machines, so 1/4-20 wouldn't be very popular.

Well, if so, I will make 1/2-13 holes. I will try to do it with a form
tap, since this is aluminum. I would space the holes a little wider
then, maybe one every 2 inches.

Also consider an expanding wedge-clamp feature fixed
to the back side to engage a T-slot for automatic
Y-alignment.

--Winston