I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

On Dec 16, 9:14*am, Ignoramus6780
wrote:
I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

Why don't you want it to expand? It seems that a couple of rubber
plugs, sized very closely to the shaft, could compress just a little -
maybe .010 or so - and give a nice fit. Of course, I don't think you
ever said (or I never caught) how deep the hole is.

Most hot-melt glues release pretty easily and are alcohol soluble.
Solid-surface countertop guys use it to glue on clamping blocks which
they later release by wetting the edges with alcohol.

On Dec 16, 9:14*am, Ignoramus6780
wrote:
I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

If you cut a slightly oversized fine thread on the adapter it will be
fairly easy to get a light to moderate press fit since the threads
will crush. If you cut too deep you can pad them with fishline. Or you
could squeeze it oval or better triangular.

Some of the Loctites release easily when heated.

I was the stuckee nominated to salvage a batch of prototype assemblies
after extra-strong Loctite had accidentally been applied to screws in
brass inserts molded into plastic. The task was easier than the
assigner expected (hoped?) when I heated the screws with a big mutha
soldering iron.

jsw

Ignoramus6780 fired this volley in
:

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

"Glyptol". It's the glue of choice in military stuff for "just holding
on", but still easily crack-able.

It's just thick nitrocellullose lacquer. For your purposes, Ambroid model
cement or Duco cement should work.

Make sure both surfaces are immaculately clean. This stuff just-only
sticks to metal.

LLoyd

On 12/16/2010 06:24 AM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Dec 16, 9:14 am,
wrote:
I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

Why don't you want it to expand? It seems that a couple of rubber
plugs, sized very closely to the shaft, could compress just a little -
maybe .010 or so - and give a nice fit. Of course, I don't think you
ever said (or I never caught) how deep the hole is.

Most hot-melt glues release pretty easily and are alcohol soluble.
Solid-surface countertop guys use it to glue on clamping blocks which
they later release by wetting the edges with alcohol.

An O-ring, set into a groove in the adapter?

Locktite has something, if you can get their attention for a one-off
(Locktite _always_ has something, even though I've heard complaints here
about their technical support slipping).

If you make the adapters out of Nylon, Delrin, or similar kinda-springy,
kinda stiff plastic, you should be able to achieve a press fit that'll
still pull out by hand. If that's not stiff enough, maybe bushings?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Ignoramus6780" wrote in message
...
I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

Wild idea. Turn a groove in it and insert a neoprene o-ring? Not good
enough?

Loctite green is a sleeve and bushing locker. Takes heat to remove. I have
used it with good success for press fit water passage adaptors on engines.

Weak metal glue? Machine your adaptor with a flange so it rests on top, and
put a thin layer of silicone household adhesive on top. Make the flange
square or hex shaped so you can break it loose easily with a wrench. The
silicone will break loose easily, and peal off the parts with your fingers.
(has be be clean and dry to work) Worried about oil later? Use an engine
gasket silicone.

Ignoramus6780 wrote:

I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

Can you post some close-up pics of your mill head from all accessible
locations, access ports, etc? I'm pretty sure we can come up with a
better solution if we can see in detail the possible options.

I'm pretty sure that you would be better off with an inductive pickup of
a gear than messing with a shaft encoder. You don't need a lot of
resolution, and even if the gear you pickup from has different ratios in
high/low ranges, you can easily account for that on the software end.

Ignoramus6780 wrote:

I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

On the shaft idea, how about determining a screw thread that has a tap
drill diameter of 26mm (or close to that), and tap an inch or so of the
spindle. Make an adapter with that thread for a couple inches then
stepping down to your 3/8" shaft size. Thread the adapter into the
spindle and follow with a backup nylock nut.

No matter how you connect to the spindle, I highly recommend you use a
separate bearing supported shaft for the encoder and a flexible coupling
to your spindle adapter.

Asked and answered.. how many times now?

How many more times are you going to ask about the same situation?
If the answers that you were given previously weren't any good, then ask
somewhere else.
Maybe you've wondered why different folks have suggested you're a troll..
here's why.

That lathe of yours has been sitting there for about 2 years (or more?).. so
make a part, just as others have suggested before.

If you're still reluctant to use the lathe, write a prog for the mill for
making the part.

A simple part that adapts a hole to a stem isn't a complicated issue.

Use plenty of coolant.

--
WB
..........


"Ignoramus6780" wrote in message
...
I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

"Wild_Bill" fired this volley in
:

If the answers that you were given previously weren't any good, then
ask somewhere else.
Maybe you've wondered why different folks have suggested you're a
troll.. here's why.


You must be on another planet, Bill. Iggy is anything BUT a troll, and I
can't remember anyone suggesting he was, except years ago, when he first
started learning this craft.

He has questions, yes. But he also actually DOES things, and when they
don't work, he asks again.

Have YOU retro-fitted your own mill from scratch? Hmmmm?

WTF?

LLoyd

On Dec 16, 9:14*am, Ignoramus6780
wrote:
I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

Hey - I just had another idea!

Pretend you're working on a deadline, and the glue absolutely,
positively has to stick forever. You're pretty much guaranteed that it
will fall apart easily.

Loctite 290, which is meant to wick in to assembled threads, breaks
free pretty easily. It keeps fasteners from vibrating loose, but
yields easily to "normal" wrenching.

On 12/16/2010 03:51 PM, rangerssuck wrote:


Hey - I just had another idea!

Pretend you're working on a deadline, and the glue absolutely,
positively has to stick forever. You're pretty much guaranteed that it
will fall apart easily.


:-)

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Dec 16, 6:14*am, Ignoramus6780
wrote:
I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor
Whet I would like, I think, is...some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

There's a black tarry stuff called 'jeweler's wax' that is
the usual hotmelt glue recommended for metalwork.

In article ,
Ignoramus6780 wrote:

some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.


Hot glue.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Tim Wescott wrote:

Most hot-melt glues release pretty easily and are alcohol soluble.
Solid-surface countertop guys use it to glue on clamping blocks which
they later release by wetting the edges with alcohol.

An O-ring, set into a groove in the adapter?


I think I offered that idea but thanks for the seconding.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

That's what I ended up doing.

i

On 2010-12-16, Wild_Bill wrote:
Asked and answered.. how many times now?

How many more times are you going to ask about the same situation?
If the answers that you were given previously weren't any good, then ask
somewhere else.
Maybe you've wondered why different folks have suggested you're a troll..
here's why.

That lathe of yours has been sitting there for about 2 years (or more?).. so
make a part, just as others have suggested before.

If you're still reluctant to use the lathe, write a prog for the mill for
making the part.

A simple part that adapts a hole to a stem isn't a complicated issue.

Use plenty of coolant.

On 2010-12-16, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Wild_Bill" fired this volley in
:

If the answers that you were given previously weren't any good, then
ask somewhere else.
Maybe you've wondered why different folks have suggested you're a
troll.. here's why.


You must be on another planet, Bill. Iggy is anything BUT a troll, and I
can't remember anyone suggesting he was, except years ago, when he first
started learning this craft.

He has questions, yes. But he also actually DOES things, and when they
don't work, he asks again.

Have YOU retro-fitted your own mill from scratch? Hmmmm?


I was admittedly going in circles, but that is not quite the same as
being a troll. I wanted to do it right.

I ended up making an adaptor on my lathe.

After installing it and reconfiguring EMC2, rigid tapping kind of,
sort of works right now, but there are many loose ends that I need to
figure out.

For example:

1) Following errors when in straight gear (not in back gear). Perhaps
this is because of wrong base period of the main thread, or something
else.

2) In back gear, forward means reverse and reverse means forward, and
I need to find a way to fix that. Right now rigid tapping in back gear
is ridiculous: The spindle runs CCW and goes down, then reverses and
goes up while spinning CW. I, obviously, need the opposite, unless I
use a left handed tap.

If I solve issue number 1, I could tap small holes, perhaps up to 5/16
NC, without going into back gear. It would be scary to watch, but will be
just fine.

For up to 5/8 NC, I would need a back gear.

3) I still would like to somehow double check the index pulses vs.
encoder counts.

i

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:14:21 -0600, Ignoramus6780
wrote:

I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

I'll ask again what the objection is to something that expands. You
have a lathe and mill. It's an easy project, fun to do, a lot more
consistent with machine tool precision than glue, wax, rubber bands,
etc. and you'd gain lathe experience while doing it.

On 2010-12-17, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:14:21 -0600, Ignoramus6780
wrote:

I am still struggling with making an encoder adaptor that would go
into the top of my spindle (spindle is hollow, with a 26mm hole), and
have a 3/8" shaft protruding on top to mount the encoder disk.

After a few things that did not work, I am settling on simply making
this adaptor out of 12L14. It should be easy to make on a lathe. I am
thinking how to avoid making it "expand" but just stay in place
without expanding.

Whet I would like, I think, is make it fit the spindle precisely, yet
without any significant force involved (that is, not press or
interference fit), but use some weak glue to hold it in place. This is
so that I would pull it out easily when necessary.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

Thanks

I'll ask again what the objection is to something that expands. You
have a lathe and mill. It's an easy project, fun to do, a lot more
consistent with machine tool precision than glue, wax, rubber bands,
etc. and you'd gain lathe experience while doing it.


I made a non-expanding piece with reasonably good precision, so that
it fits snugly into the spindle.

It all seems to work now.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...indle-Encoder/


i

Your reasons Don, are exactly why owning metalworking machines is so great..
fabricating simple parts builds a foundation of experience that will always
be useful again in the future.
Experience in making simple parts just naturally leads to the ability to
make more complex parts.
Having to use halfassed parts/materials to try to accomplish a task is
utterly frustrating compared to having the ability to make a quality part
that improves the performance and/or reliability of device/machine/tool etc.

An expanding adapter was one of my early lathe projects (an expanding shaft
to adapt a hand crank to a benchtop lathe spindle bore, on a model without
low/variable speed capability), and I haven't/wouldn't hesitate to make
others for different applications.

--
WB
..........


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...

I'll ask again what the objection is to something that expands. You
have a lathe and mill. It's an easy project, fun to do, a lot more
consistent with machine tool precision than glue, wax, rubber bands,
etc. and you'd gain lathe experience while doing it.

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 02:11:44 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Your reasons Don, are exactly why owning metalworking machines is so great..
fabricating simple parts builds a foundation of experience that will always
be useful again in the future.
Experience in making simple parts just naturally leads to the ability to
make more complex parts.
Having to use halfassed parts/materials to try to accomplish a task is
utterly frustrating compared to having the ability to make a quality part
that improves the performance and/or reliability of device/machine/tool etc.

An expanding adapter was one of my early lathe projects (an expanding shaft
to adapt a hand crank to a benchtop lathe spindle bore, on a model without
low/variable speed capability), and I haven't/wouldn't hesitate to make
others for different applications.
=========
see our class version for an Emco-Meier Compact 10
http://mcduffee-associates.us/machin...ndle_crank.htm

A spindle crank offers a great deal of utility to home/hobby
shop machinists, particurarly when threading to a shoulder
and/or using metric change gears. Large diameter fine
threads as for camera/lens adapters are also much easier
using the hand crank.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Ignoramus6780 wrote:

2) In back gear, forward means reverse and reverse means forward, and
I need to find a way to fix that. Right now rigid tapping in back gear
is ridiculous: The spindle runs CCW and goes down, then reverses and
goes up while spinning CW. I, obviously, need the opposite, unless I
use a left handed tap.

On our Bridgeports, the direction of rotation is not linked
to the mechanical, IN or OUT of back gear. so you can always
run the spindle in any direction regardless of "speed range".
I guess the power downfeed would be a problem though. :-)
...lew...

On 2010-12-17, Lewis Hartswick wrote:
Ignoramus6780 wrote:

2) In back gear, forward means reverse and reverse means forward, and
I need to find a way to fix that. Right now rigid tapping in back gear
is ridiculous: The spindle runs CCW and goes down, then reverses and
goes up while spinning CW. I, obviously, need the opposite, unless I
use a left handed tap.

On our Bridgeports, the direction of rotation is not linked
to the mechanical, IN or OUT of back gear. so you can always
run the spindle in any direction regardless of "speed range".
I guess the power downfeed would be a problem though. :-)
...lew...

On Series II Interact 2, back gear reverses the rotation.

This would not be a problem, ordinarily, as I could command the mill
to run "in reverse" when drilling, milling etc and it would be
great. However, when rigid tapping, the control wants to run the
spindle "forward", which in back gear actually means reverse. This is
the problem with rigid tapping.

i

Ignoramus30138 wrote:

On 2010-12-17, Lewis Hartswick wrote:
Ignoramus6780 wrote:

2) In back gear, forward means reverse and reverse means forward, and
I need to find a way to fix that. Right now rigid tapping in back gear
is ridiculous: The spindle runs CCW and goes down, then reverses and
goes up while spinning CW. I, obviously, need the opposite, unless I
use a left handed tap.

On our Bridgeports, the direction of rotation is not linked
to the mechanical, IN or OUT of back gear. so you can always
run the spindle in any direction regardless of "speed range".
I guess the power downfeed would be a problem though. :-)
...lew...

On Series II Interact 2, back gear reverses the rotation.

This would not be a problem, ordinarily, as I could command the mill
to run "in reverse" when drilling, milling etc and it would be
great. However, when rigid tapping, the control wants to run the
spindle "forward", which in back gear actually means reverse. This is
the problem with rigid tapping.

i

You need to configure EMC2 to reverse it's spindle direction control
depending on the selection of the high/low gear range.

On 2010-12-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus30138 wrote:

On 2010-12-17, Lewis Hartswick wrote:
Ignoramus6780 wrote:

2) In back gear, forward means reverse and reverse means forward, and
I need to find a way to fix that. Right now rigid tapping in back gear
is ridiculous: The spindle runs CCW and goes down, then reverses and
goes up while spinning CW. I, obviously, need the opposite, unless I
use a left handed tap.

On our Bridgeports, the direction of rotation is not linked
to the mechanical, IN or OUT of back gear. so you can always
run the spindle in any direction regardless of "speed range".
I guess the power downfeed would be a problem though. :-)
...lew...

On Series II Interact 2, back gear reverses the rotation.

This would not be a problem, ordinarily, as I could command the mill
to run "in reverse" when drilling, milling etc and it would be
great. However, when rigid tapping, the control wants to run the
spindle "forward", which in back gear actually means reverse. This is
the problem with rigid tapping.

i

You need to configure EMC2 to reverse it's spindle direction control
depending on the selection of the high/low gear range.

Yep. I think that I can do it with some and2 elements.

i

On 2010-12-17, Ignoramus6780 wrote:

[ ... ]

2) In back gear, forward means reverse and reverse means forward, and
I need to find a way to fix that. Right now rigid tapping in back gear
is ridiculous: The spindle runs CCW and goes down, then reverses and
goes up while spinning CW. I, obviously, need the opposite, unless I
use a left handed tap.

I believe I suggested back when you were early in this project
that you set up a switch to sense the lever in the back-gear position,
and use that to either tell EMC2 to command the opposite direction, or
simply have it work a relay to interchange the forward and reverse pins
on the command to the VFD.

Admitedly, I was not thinking of rigid tapping -- but things
like burning out end mills or drill bits because you are running them
backwards.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:13:04 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ignoramus6780 fired this volley in
m:

Would anyone have any suggestions as to the glue.

"Glyptol". It's the glue of choice in military stuff for "just holding
on", but still easily crack-able.

It's just thick nitrocellullose lacquer. For your purposes, Ambroid model
cement or Duco cement should work.

Make sure both surfaces are immaculately clean. This stuff just-only
sticks to metal.

LLoyd

I use fingernail polish on all my rifle sight and scope screws. Holds
well, breaks easily when torgued.

Gunner

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