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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Machine Tapping
I've got this urge to own a tapping head, so I've started doing a little
reading on tapping speeds. One formula I have read is: For inch taps RPM = SFM / (.26 * Tap OD) http://www.newyorktwistdrill.com/tap...l_data_03.html A middle of the road SFM for aluminum ( I know it can vary dramatically depending on hardness, alloy, etc ) is about 600. When I plug that in for a 1/4" tap it comes up with 9230.769 That seems insanely fast to me. Are you guys who do this really tapping holes in a fraction of a second? Seems like for small jobs the clamping and positioning requirements to do that would take longer than tapping a couple holes by hand. |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Machine Tapping
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
... I've got this urge to own a tapping head, so I've started doing a little reading on tapping speeds. One formula I have read is: For inch taps RPM = SFM / (.26 * Tap OD) http://www.newyorktwistdrill.com/tap...l_data_03.html A middle of the road SFM for aluminum ( I know it can vary dramatically depending on hardness, alloy, etc ) is about 600. When I plug that in for a 1/4" tap it comes up with 9230.769 That seems insanely fast to me. Are you guys who do this really tapping holes in a fraction of a second? Seems like for small jobs the clamping and positioning requirements to do that would take longer than tapping a couple holes by hand. Oh, heck. They also list aluminum on their chart at 90-100. Now I am really confused. At 95 that comes out as 6.175. That makes more sense, but then it becomes a problem to turn that slow and still apply full power with most machines guys like me can afford. And why do they list aluminum at 90-100 and many of the milling sites list aluminum from 500 to as much as 1200? I had thought up until this moment SFM was SFM. |
#3
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Machine Tapping
On 12/14/2010 10:29 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ... I've got this urge to own a tapping head, so I've started doing a little reading on tapping speeds. One formula I have read is: For inch taps RPM = SFM / (.26 * Tap OD) http://www.newyorktwistdrill.com/tap...l_data_03.html A middle of the road SFM for aluminum ( I know it can vary dramatically depending on hardness, alloy, etc ) is about 600. When I plug that in for a 1/4" tap it comes up with 9230.769 That seems insanely fast to me. Are you guys who do this really tapping holes in a fraction of a second? Seems like for small jobs the clamping and positioning requirements to do that would take longer than tapping a couple holes by hand. Oh, heck. They also list aluminum on their chart at 90-100. Now I am really confused. At 95 that comes out as 6.175. That makes more sense, but then it becomes a problem to turn that slow and still apply full power with most machines guys like me can afford. And why do they list aluminum at 90-100 and many of the milling sites list aluminum from 500 to as much as 1200? I had thought up until this moment SFM was SFM. It all depends on the tap I would say.. If its a standard HSS tap with no coatings, we normally run them at 100 RPM with oil in steels, and coolant in plastic or aluminium. If we get into some type of production, then we look at better taps so we can get faster feedrates. We tend not to push a tap too hard, because it is normally a final operation, and its a bitch to drill them out if they break. |
#4
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Machine Tapping
On 12/14/2010 07:29 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ... I've got this urge to own a tapping head, so I've started doing a little reading on tapping speeds. One formula I have read is: For inch taps RPM = SFM / (.26 * Tap OD) http://www.newyorktwistdrill.com/tap...l_data_03.html A middle of the road SFM for aluminum ( I know it can vary dramatically depending on hardness, alloy, etc ) is about 600. When I plug that in for a 1/4" tap it comes up with 9230.769 That seems insanely fast to me. Are you guys who do this really tapping holes in a fraction of a second? Seems like for small jobs the clamping and positioning requirements to do that would take longer than tapping a couple holes by hand. Oh, heck. They also list aluminum on their chart at 90-100. Now I am really confused. At 95 that comes out as 6.175. That makes more sense, but then it becomes a problem to turn that slow and still apply full power with most machines guys like me can afford. ?? 95 / (0.26 * 0.25) = 1462 And why do they list aluminum at 90-100 and many of the milling sites list aluminum from 500 to as much as 1200? I had thought up until this moment SFM was SFM. Maybe the operation does matter. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#5
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Machine Tapping
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
... On 12/14/2010 07:29 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: "Bob La Londe" wrote in message ... I've got this urge to own a tapping head, so I've started doing a little reading on tapping speeds. One formula I have read is: For inch taps RPM = SFM / (.26 * Tap OD) http://www.newyorktwistdrill.com/tap...l_data_03.html A middle of the road SFM for aluminum ( I know it can vary dramatically depending on hardness, alloy, etc ) is about 600. When I plug that in for a 1/4" tap it comes up with 9230.769 That seems insanely fast to me. Are you guys who do this really tapping holes in a fraction of a second? Seems like for small jobs the clamping and positioning requirements to do that would take longer than tapping a couple holes by hand. Oh, heck. They also list aluminum on their chart at 90-100. Now I am really confused. At 95 that comes out as 6.175. That makes more sense, but then it becomes a problem to turn that slow and still apply full power with most machines guys like me can afford. ?? 95 / (0.26 * 0.25) = 1462 And why do they list aluminum at 90-100 and many of the milling sites list aluminum from 500 to as much as 1200? I had thought up until this moment SFM was SFM. Maybe the operation does matter. I totally hosed that one hey Tim. LOL. |
#6
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Machine Tapping
I run pretty conservative numbers to make sure my customers have reliability
and efficiency. Generally, I run taps at 1/3 the drilling RPM and plan on needing 200% of the HP requirement for drilling. ...Cut tap, HSS. I use the following chart to estimate those numbers: http://tinyurl.com/ToolSpeeds or http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/ Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/AutoDrill-Facebook V8013-R |
#7
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Machine Tapping
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
... I run pretty conservative numbers to make sure my customers have reliability and efficiency. Generally, I run taps at 1/3 the drilling RPM and plan on needing 200% of the HP requirement for drilling. ...Cut tap, HSS. I use the following chart to estimate those numbers: http://tinyurl.com/ToolSpeeds or http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm Thanks, Joe. You those are going in the binder I keep out in the shop. Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/ Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/AutoDrill-Facebook V8013-R |
#8
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Machine Tapping
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:06:10 -0500, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote: I run pretty conservative numbers to make sure my customers have reliability and efficiency. Generally, I run taps at 1/3 the drilling RPM and plan on needing 200% of the HP requirement for drilling. ...Cut tap, HSS. I use the following chart to estimate those numbers: http://tinyurl.com/ToolSpeeds or http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm Man, I have a radial arm drill and a heavy duty CNC mill and i only go about 1/3 of these numbers. IMHO, a typical HSM ain't got a chance with light equipment at these speeds. Keep in mind these numbers are for production shops. Just my 2 cents Karl |
#9
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Machine Tapping
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
... On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:06:10 -0500, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote: I run pretty conservative numbers to make sure my customers have reliability and efficiency. Generally, I run taps at 1/3 the drilling RPM and plan on needing 200% of the HP requirement for drilling. ...Cut tap, HSS. I use the following chart to estimate those numbers: http://tinyurl.com/ToolSpeeds or http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm Man, I have a radial arm drill and a heavy duty CNC mill and i only go about 1/3 of these numbers. IMHO, a typical HSM ain't got a chance with light equipment at these speeds. Keep in mind these numbers are for production shops. Just my 2 cents Karl Karl is mostly right here when it comes to RPM. The charts are conservative in some respects (lower RPM than some achieve with the same HSS tooling) but they do presume proper coolant, sharp tooling, rigid set-up, etc. The numbers work just fine for me on my cheapo drill presseses here in the shop, but I'm very careful to always use lubrication such as cutting oil, etc. As for the feed rate... Most people can't "program" their feed rate so it's not a huge issue. with almost all materials, a lesser feed rate won't do much harm. In stainless, the exact opposite is true. A lesser feed rate causes more heat build up and that is a very bad thing in stainless. Overall, on a manaully fed drill press with some sort of cutting fluid to cool the drill, the numbers on that chart should be safe for just about everything you do. -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/ Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/AutoDrill-Facebook V8013-R |
#10
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Machine Tapping
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:23:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote: I've got this urge to own a tapping head, so I've started doing a little reading on tapping speeds. One formula I have read is: For inch taps RPM = SFM / (.26 * Tap OD) http://www.newyorktwistdrill.com/tap...l_data_03.html A middle of the road SFM for aluminum ( I know it can vary dramatically depending on hardness, alloy, etc ) is about 600. When I plug that in for a 1/4" tap it comes up with 9230.769 That seems insanely fast to me. Are you guys who do this really tapping holes in a fraction of a second? Seems like for small jobs the clamping and positioning requirements to do that would take longer than tapping a couple holes by hand. Obviously, I do it in a NON home shop enviroment, but in aluminum....6061, for example, I'll run at between 600 and 800 RPM with flood water soluble coolant. For a REAL production run....a few thousand holes, I'll set up the reversing tapping head on the VMC and spin that at about 2500 RPM But that is just me....your mileage may vary Mike |
#11
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Machine Tapping
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#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Machine Tapping
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:14:32 -0600, Ignoramus22945
wrote: On 2010-12-16, wrote: A Fanuc Robodrill (CAT 40 VMC) will peck tap 1/4-20 UNC holes at 10,000 RPM. That's not just me. Your mileage won't vary. I don't doubt that at all...I am, however, using a fairly old Hurco that couldn't spin that fast with a bullet at the set-up dudes head....that's me, by the way. And the reason for the 2500 speed is that that is all the faster the head is rated at. I have a smaller one that I use for taps #10 and under that will take up to 4500. At 10,000 RPM, a 20 TPI tap would travel 8.33 inches per second. At 2,500 RPM, 2.08 inches per second. i Yea, these production guys live in a whole 'nuther world. All my CNC tapping is at 100 RPM and that's plenty fast. For the one of jobs I do increasing tap speed from 100 to 10,000 RPM would save a couple minutes out of my day. And maybe not that, I use machine run time to set up the next op or clean the shop. Or if its a long program, start making parts on another machine. Anyway, if you can do something else while your machine runs; speed is not an issue for us HSM types. Now breaking a tap in a part IS. Again, just my two cents. I go slow and try real hard not to **** up and break ****. Takes less effort in the long run. Karl |
#13
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Machine Tapping
On 2010-12-16, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:14:32 -0600, Ignoramus22945 wrote: On 2010-12-16, wrote: A Fanuc Robodrill (CAT 40 VMC) will peck tap 1/4-20 UNC holes at 10,000 RPM. That's not just me. Your mileage won't vary. I don't doubt that at all...I am, however, using a fairly old Hurco that couldn't spin that fast with a bullet at the set-up dudes head....that's me, by the way. And the reason for the 2500 speed is that that is all the faster the head is rated at. I have a smaller one that I use for taps #10 and under that will take up to 4500. At 10,000 RPM, a 20 TPI tap would travel 8.33 inches per second. At 2,500 RPM, 2.08 inches per second. i Yea, these production guys live in a whole 'nuther world. All my CNC tapping is at 100 RPM and that's plenty fast. For the one of jobs I do increasing tap speed from 100 to 10,000 RPM would save a couple minutes out of my day. And maybe not that, I use machine run time to set up the next op or clean the shop. Or if its a long program, start making parts on another machine. Anyway, if you can do something else while your machine runs; speed is not an issue for us HSM types. Now breaking a tap in a part IS. Again, just my two cents. I go slow and try real hard not to **** up and break ****. Takes less effort in the long run. Karl I feel the same, yet, the production world is fascinating. i |
#14
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Machine Tapping
John R. Carroll wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:11:57 -0800: For a REAL production run....a few thousand holes, I'll set up the reversing tapping head on the VMC and spin that at about 2500 RPM But that is just me....your mileage may vary Mike A Fanuc Robodrill (CAT 40 VMC) will peck tap 1/4-20 UNC holes at 10,000 RPM. That's not just me. Your mileage won't vary. At work we just got two new robodrills. Smaller than CAT 40. And boy can it move. It was tapping some small parts so fast, you couldn't see the spindle stop and reverse. If tapping blind holes with a roll (forming) tap, you have to go slow to give the coolant a chance to escape. The thing sounds like a dental drill when milling. -- Dan H. northshore MA. |
#15
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Machine Tapping
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
news On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:14:32 -0600, Ignoramus22945 wrote: On 2010-12-16, wrote: A Fanuc Robodrill (CAT 40 VMC) will peck tap 1/4-20 UNC holes at 10,000 RPM. That's not just me. Your mileage won't vary. I don't doubt that at all...I am, however, using a fairly old Hurco that couldn't spin that fast with a bullet at the set-up dudes head....that's me, by the way. And the reason for the 2500 speed is that that is all the faster the head is rated at. I have a smaller one that I use for taps #10 and under that will take up to 4500. At 10,000 RPM, a 20 TPI tap would travel 8.33 inches per second. At 2,500 RPM, 2.08 inches per second. i Yea, these production guys live in a whole 'nuther world. All my CNC tapping is at 100 RPM and that's plenty fast. For the one of jobs I do increasing tap speed from 100 to 10,000 RPM would save a couple minutes out of my day. And maybe not that, I use machine run time to set up the next op or clean the shop. Or if its a long program, start making parts on another machine. Anyway, if you can do something else while your machine runs; speed is not an issue for us HSM types. Now breaking a tap in a part IS. I hear that. Lately my jobs all take hours and even days rather than minutes. I spent the last week designing and building 3 unique parts for somebody else and modifying one somebody else made for them so it would actually work. My anxiety level has been above my eyebrows. If it was not for having to stop and watch the machines run and go take care of my clients at my day job I don't think I'ld have relaxed at all. LOL. It's one of the most fun week I have had in a long time. |
#17
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Machine Tapping
John R. Carroll wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:22:48 -0800: dan wrote: John R. Carroll wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:11:57 -0800: For a REAL production run....a few thousand holes, I'll set up the reversing tapping head on the VMC and spin that at about 2500 RPM But that is just me....your mileage may vary Mike A Fanuc Robodrill (CAT 40 VMC) will peck tap 1/4-20 UNC holes at 10,000 RPM. That's not just me. Your mileage won't vary. At work we just got two new robodrills. Smaller than CAT 40. And boy can it move. I've seen these walk a long way (relatively) in as little as a single shift. You mean across the floor? I think ours are bolted down. I was referring to the speed of the axis movement and tool changes. It was tapping some small parts so fast, you couldn't see the spindle stop and reverse. If tapping blind holes with a roll (forming) tap, you have to go slow to give the coolant a chance to escape. Or use taps relieved for this purpose. They have a small (0.020") hole through the center of them. The hole is made with a wire that gets disolved out at the end of the manufacturing process. You might want to pass that along. I will! I've seen the taps that have a grove down one side, but not on the very small ones (4-40 to 0-80). Do you have a brand name? Something else. Measure the thread depth between holes. Your jaw will drop when you see how close thay are to being identical. Should be. But I just look. I'm in the lathe dept. (I work with two citizen L25s and one M20) -- Dan H. northshore MA. |
#18
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Machine Tapping
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 17:26:03 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote: On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:06:10 -0500, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote: I run pretty conservative numbers to make sure my customers have reliability and efficiency. Generally, I run taps at 1/3 the drilling RPM and plan on needing 200% of the HP requirement for drilling. ...Cut tap, HSS. I use the following chart to estimate those numbers: http://tinyurl.com/ToolSpeeds or http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm Man, I have a radial arm drill and a heavy duty CNC mill and i only go about 1/3 of these numbers. IMHO, a typical HSM ain't got a chance with light equipment at these speeds. Keep in mind these numbers are for production shops. Just my 2 cents Karl Ill have to check them. I was running a radial arm drill yesterday, but it only had a 3" bit in it. Cinci with a 12' arm..... Gunner Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans 10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes 9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can visit them at the Smithstonian 8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ 7. Someday none of this will be yours 6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares? 5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job! 4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government: Racism! 3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time. 2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!! 1. Making everything in this country free, except you. |
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