SHORT STORY:
Took one of my rails to Golden West Billiards (only major 'made in
America' table manufacturer aside from Olhausen) and complained about
lack of rebound. Was immediately told that my rails are too high and
suggested I simply slide either a penny or a nickel (metal related)
underneath the outside edge of the rails in order to tip the nose of
the rails a little lower. SOLVED MY PROBLEM!

LONG STORY:
Live in the Portland Oregon region. Brought my table with me from
S.F. Bay area about 7 years ago. Left it unassembled (properly
wrapped) in my unheated shop for over a year. Finally had one of the
local table mechanics set my level my slates and recover the table.
On a medium stroke shot the ball would simply 'thud' into the cushion
and rebound a mere 6 to 8 inches. This was happening on four of the
six cushions, almost the full length of the cushion. In frustration,
I ripped off the cushion cloth and noticed that the rubber was visibly
cracked and hard as a rock. Called the idiot (he is the one that
removed the old cloth from the stored cushions) and asked him why he
would re-cover a table that was obviously defective. Said he was
sorry and would make it up to me by installing new rubbers at a good
price. Did so, re-covered the table again (faster cloth) and I was
still unsatisfied.
Made myself a 24" metal ramp (metal related) that had a 3/4" rise at
one end. Would let a ball roll down and measured the rebound. I
would also go to pool halls and repeat the same measurement. On the
WORST tables at the pool halls the rebound distance was almost twice
the distance as upon mine. Waited a year, found an old mechanic with
40 years of experience, said he would re-cushion with the best German
rubber having a K-6 profile. I delivered my six rails to his shop.
Calls me 2 weeks later and tells me that my rails are too high. Wants
permission to run them through the jointer, or table saw, to get them
down to the right height. "Sure, go ahead"! Three weeks later he
comes out and installs the rails and re-covers the table with Simonis
cloth. I get out my little 'ramp gage' and he laughs at me. "That's
not how we check rebound. We shoot a ball the full length of the
table (into a corner) and the ball should hit at least 8 rails". He
starts shooting and after a while he's almost 'throwing' the ball by
hand and the best he can do is about 5 rails. Once in a while 6.
Because of my nature I pay him in full and tell him to get lost.

Now, two years later, thinking that Golden West (the manufacturer of
my 20 yr. old table) will probably mount new rubbers, or confess that
my thin rails don't have enough mass for proper rebound, I was
expecting that they will cut new rails for me that are wider and more
massive than my 4" rails. No, we walk into the showroom, they
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
ramp (metal related) I went from a 16"-17" rebound to a consistent 23"
rebound.

BTW, while this doesn't sound like much, this is extremely slow
velocity ramp. It would be difficult to even shoot a ball at this
slow velocity. My point being is that at a medium speed shot the
percent improvement in rebound is much more than indicated by the
percentage improvement above. The force increases with the square of
the velocity. In fact, at these very slow speeds, I was able to pick
up an extra inch of rebound simply by polishing the balls. Proved it
with 5 different balls. While I saw no visible grit or lint on the
cloth, a good brushing also added about on half of an inch. Of course
all you players know that cleanliness is very critical at very slow
speeds.

Sorry about the long rant. I'm just elated that after 4 years of
putting up with this (tired of spending money) Golden West solved my
problem, did not try to sell me a new table, did not try to sell me
new rubber etc., but simply told me to lower my cushions.

While using a nickel works, I am fully capable of putting the rails
either through my table saw or the jointer for a more permanent fix.

WHAT COULD HAVE GONE WRONG:
Three possibilities: While the last tech new my rails were high and
asked permission to run them through the table saw, he either forgot
(had them for four weeks) or his new apprentice forgot. Another
possibility is that he ran them through the saw BEFORE installing the
new rubber. The new rubber, having a different profile (K6) is
possibly higher than the old. Golden West tells me that all the
rubber with different profiles have different heights and must be
compensated for.

Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

Ivan Vegvary

(cross posted to rec.sport.billiards)

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
....
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
....
Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

If it was too _high_, how does putting shims _under_ it help? Wouldn't
they just make it _higher_?

Thanks,
Rich

Ivan,
A very interesting story. So as a result, I assume you now know the correct point of intersection of the cushion on the ball's
hemisphere. I assume that point to be just above center, but I really don't know. Could you please tell us?
Steve

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ...

SHORT STORY:
Took one of my rails to Golden West Billiards (only major 'made in
America' table manufacturer aside from Olhausen) and complained about
lack of rebound. Was immediately told that my rails are too high and
suggested I simply slide either a penny or a nickel (metal related)
underneath the outside edge of the rails in order to tip the nose of
the rails a little lower. SOLVED MY PROBLEM!

LONG STORY:
Live in the Portland Oregon region. Brought my table with me from
S.F. Bay area about 7 years ago. Left it unassembled (properly
wrapped) in my unheated shop for over a year. Finally had one of the
local table mechanics set my level my slates and recover the table.
On a medium stroke shot the ball would simply 'thud' into the cushion
and rebound a mere 6 to 8 inches. This was happening on four of the
six cushions, almost the full length of the cushion. In frustration,
I ripped off the cushion cloth and noticed that the rubber was visibly
cracked and hard as a rock. Called the idiot (he is the one that
removed the old cloth from the stored cushions) and asked him why he
would re-cover a table that was obviously defective. Said he was
sorry and would make it up to me by installing new rubbers at a good
price. Did so, re-covered the table again (faster cloth) and I was
still unsatisfied.
Made myself a 24" metal ramp (metal related) that had a 3/4" rise at
one end. Would let a ball roll down and measured the rebound. I
would also go to pool halls and repeat the same measurement. On the
WORST tables at the pool halls the rebound distance was almost twice
the distance as upon mine. Waited a year, found an old mechanic with
40 years of experience, said he would re-cushion with the best German
rubber having a K-6 profile. I delivered my six rails to his shop.
Calls me 2 weeks later and tells me that my rails are too high. Wants
permission to run them through the jointer, or table saw, to get them
down to the right height. "Sure, go ahead"! Three weeks later he
comes out and installs the rails and re-covers the table with Simonis
cloth. I get out my little 'ramp gage' and he laughs at me. "That's
not how we check rebound. We shoot a ball the full length of the
table (into a corner) and the ball should hit at least 8 rails". He
starts shooting and after a while he's almost 'throwing' the ball by
hand and the best he can do is about 5 rails. Once in a while 6.
Because of my nature I pay him in full and tell him to get lost.

Now, two years later, thinking that Golden West (the manufacturer of
my 20 yr. old table) will probably mount new rubbers, or confess that
my thin rails don't have enough mass for proper rebound, I was
expecting that they will cut new rails for me that are wider and more
massive than my 4" rails. No, we walk into the showroom, they
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
ramp (metal related) I went from a 16"-17" rebound to a consistent 23"
rebound.

BTW, while this doesn't sound like much, this is extremely slow
velocity ramp. It would be difficult to even shoot a ball at this
slow velocity. My point being is that at a medium speed shot the
percent improvement in rebound is much more than indicated by the
percentage improvement above. The force increases with the square of
the velocity. In fact, at these very slow speeds, I was able to pick
up an extra inch of rebound simply by polishing the balls. Proved it
with 5 different balls. While I saw no visible grit or lint on the
cloth, a good brushing also added about on half of an inch. Of course
all you players know that cleanliness is very critical at very slow
speeds.

Sorry about the long rant. I'm just elated that after 4 years of
putting up with this (tired of spending money) Golden West solved my
problem, did not try to sell me a new table, did not try to sell me
new rubber etc., but simply told me to lower my cushions.

While using a nickel works, I am fully capable of putting the rails
either through my table saw or the jointer for a more permanent fix.

WHAT COULD HAVE GONE WRONG:
Three possibilities: While the last tech new my rails were high and
asked permission to run them through the table saw, he either forgot
(had them for four weeks) or his new apprentice forgot. Another
possibility is that he ran them through the saw BEFORE installing the
new rubber. The new rubber, having a different profile (K6) is
possibly higher than the old. Golden West tells me that all the
rubber with different profiles have different heights and must be
compensated for.

Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

Ivan Vegvary

(cross posted to rec.sport.billiards)

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 02:15:33 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
...
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
...
Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

If it was too _high_, how does putting shims _under_ it help? Wouldn't
they just make it _higher_?

Silly wabbit. Shims under the OUTER edge drop the INNER edge so the
radii are more closely matched between nose and ball. Too high and it
stops the rebound, too low and the ball jumps off the table.

Kudos to Golden Showers, er, West for doing the right thing and having
the knowledge to pass along to Ivan. Excellent customer service, and
superb advertising you cannot buy at any price.

--
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

On Dec 2, 3:53*am, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Ivan,
A very interesting story. So as a result, I assume you now know the correct point of intersection of the cushion on the ball's
hemisphere. I assume that point to be just above center, but I really don't know. Could you please tell us?
Steve


Regulation balls are 2-1/4" high. Regulation rails should be set at
62-1/2% ± 1% of ball hight. That translates to approximately 1-3/8
inches.
Obviously, a center-ball rail height would give the optimum rebound.
Below center would send balls flying off the table. Above center
captures the balls (they get wedged under) for an instant before
rebound.
Since I play more of a 'finesse' game (14-1, or straight billiards) I
rarely have occasion to slam the ball and send it off the table. In
fact, since the rebound is better, all my shots can be made with a
softer stroke.

Happy holidays!!
Ivan Vegvary

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:42:30 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:


SHORT STORY:
Took one of my rails to Golden West Billiards (only major 'made in
America' table manufacturer aside from Olhausen) and complained about
lack of rebound. Was immediately told that my rails are too high and
suggested I simply slide either a penny or a nickel (metal related)
underneath the outside edge of the rails in order to tip the nose of
the rails a little lower. SOLVED MY PROBLEM!

LONG STORY:
Live in the Portland Oregon region. Brought my table with me from
S.F. Bay area about 7 years ago. Left it unassembled (properly
wrapped) in my unheated shop for over a year. Finally had one of the
local table mechanics set my level my slates and recover the table.
On a medium stroke shot the ball would simply 'thud' into the cushion
and rebound a mere 6 to 8 inches. This was happening on four of the
six cushions, almost the full length of the cushion. In frustration,
I ripped off the cushion cloth and noticed that the rubber was visibly
cracked and hard as a rock. Called the idiot (he is the one that
removed the old cloth from the stored cushions) and asked him why he
would re-cover a table that was obviously defective. Said he was
sorry and would make it up to me by installing new rubbers at a good
price. Did so, re-covered the table again (faster cloth) and I was
still unsatisfied.
Made myself a 24" metal ramp (metal related) that had a 3/4" rise at
one end. Would let a ball roll down and measured the rebound. I
would also go to pool halls and repeat the same measurement. On the
WORST tables at the pool halls the rebound distance was almost twice
the distance as upon mine. Waited a year, found an old mechanic with
40 years of experience, said he would re-cushion with the best German
rubber having a K-6 profile. I delivered my six rails to his shop.
Calls me 2 weeks later and tells me that my rails are too high. Wants
permission to run them through the jointer, or table saw, to get them
down to the right height. "Sure, go ahead"! Three weeks later he
comes out and installs the rails and re-covers the table with Simonis
cloth. I get out my little 'ramp gage' and he laughs at me. "That's
not how we check rebound. We shoot a ball the full length of the
table (into a corner) and the ball should hit at least 8 rails". He
starts shooting and after a while he's almost 'throwing' the ball by
hand and the best he can do is about 5 rails. Once in a while 6.
Because of my nature I pay him in full and tell him to get lost.

Now, two years later, thinking that Golden West (the manufacturer of
my 20 yr. old table) will probably mount new rubbers, or confess that
my thin rails don't have enough mass for proper rebound, I was
expecting that they will cut new rails for me that are wider and more
massive than my 4" rails. No, we walk into the showroom, they
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
ramp (metal related) I went from a 16"-17" rebound to a consistent 23"
rebound.

BTW, while this doesn't sound like much, this is extremely slow
velocity ramp. It would be difficult to even shoot a ball at this
slow velocity. My point being is that at a medium speed shot the
percent improvement in rebound is much more than indicated by the
percentage improvement above. The force increases with the square of
the velocity. In fact, at these very slow speeds, I was able to pick
up an extra inch of rebound simply by polishing the balls. Proved it
with 5 different balls. While I saw no visible grit or lint on the
cloth, a good brushing also added about on half of an inch. Of course
all you players know that cleanliness is very critical at very slow
speeds.

Sorry about the long rant. I'm just elated that after 4 years of
putting up with this (tired of spending money) Golden West solved my
problem, did not try to sell me a new table, did not try to sell me
new rubber etc., but simply told me to lower my cushions.

While using a nickel works, I am fully capable of putting the rails
either through my table saw or the jointer for a more permanent fix.

WHAT COULD HAVE GONE WRONG:
Three possibilities: While the last tech new my rails were high and
asked permission to run them through the table saw, he either forgot
(had them for four weeks) or his new apprentice forgot. Another
possibility is that he ran them through the saw BEFORE installing the
new rubber. The new rubber, having a different profile (K6) is
possibly higher than the old. Golden West tells me that all the
rubber with different profiles have different heights and must be
compensated for.

Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

Ivan Vegvary

(cross posted to rec.sport.billiards)

Fascinating! Thanks for the report

Gunner, modest pool player, who once upon a time,many years ago,
wouldnt play for less than $100 a game.

Oh I still have that georgious 1897 Brunswick "Admiral" snooker table
for sale if anyone is interested.


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Ivan Vegvary wrote:
...
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
...
Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

If it was too _high_, how does putting shims _under_ it help? Wouldn't
they just make it _higher_?

Thanks,
Rich

It must be tough to be stupid.

HE PUT THE SHIM ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE RAIL, MAKING THE INSIDE COME DOWN.

Sheesh..

Steve

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...
On Dec 2, 3:53 am, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Ivan,
A very interesting story. So as a result, I assume you now know the
correct point of intersection of the cushion on the ball's
hemisphere. I assume that point to be just above center, but I really
don't know. Could you please tell us?
Steve


Regulation balls are 2-1/4" high. Regulation rails should be set at
62-1/2% ± 1% of ball hight. That translates to approximately 1-3/8
inches.
Obviously, a center-ball rail height would give the optimum rebound.
Below center would send balls flying off the table. Above center
captures the balls (they get wedged under) for an instant before
rebound.
Since I play more of a 'finesse' game (14-1, or straight billiards) I
rarely have occasion to slam the ball and send it off the table. In
fact, since the rebound is better, all my shots can be made with a
softer stroke.

Happy holidays!!
Ivan Vegvary

Thanks for the info. I have wondered if mine was right, and now I know how
to check. I moved it once, and it was not that difficult. But I've been
wondering about the cushions and how bouncy they are compared to others. I
need to make a ramp, like you did, and compare some tables. I also need to
recover it soon. I used to think green was the only color for felt, but the
burgundy goes better with our color scheme, so may go burgundy again. Going
to select a high quality felt, too.

Steve

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:42:30 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:


SHORT STORY:
Took one of my rails to Golden West Billiards (only major 'made in
America' table manufacturer aside from Olhausen) and complained about
lack of rebound. Was immediately told that my rails are too high and
suggested I simply slide either a penny or a nickel (metal related)
underneath the outside edge of the rails in order to tip the nose of
the rails a little lower. SOLVED MY PROBLEM!

LONG STORY:
Live in the Portland Oregon region. Brought my table with me from
S.F. Bay area about 7 years ago. Left it unassembled (properly
wrapped) in my unheated shop for over a year. Finally had one of the
local table mechanics set my level my slates and recover the table.
On a medium stroke shot the ball would simply 'thud' into the cushion
and rebound a mere 6 to 8 inches. This was happening on four of the
six cushions, almost the full length of the cushion. In frustration,
I ripped off the cushion cloth and noticed that the rubber was visibly
cracked and hard as a rock. Called the idiot (he is the one that
removed the old cloth from the stored cushions) and asked him why he
would re-cover a table that was obviously defective. Said he was
sorry and would make it up to me by installing new rubbers at a good
price. Did so, re-covered the table again (faster cloth) and I was
still unsatisfied.
Made myself a 24" metal ramp (metal related) that had a 3/4" rise at
one end. Would let a ball roll down and measured the rebound. I
would also go to pool halls and repeat the same measurement. On the
WORST tables at the pool halls the rebound distance was almost twice
the distance as upon mine. Waited a year, found an old mechanic with
40 years of experience, said he would re-cushion with the best German
rubber having a K-6 profile. I delivered my six rails to his shop.
Calls me 2 weeks later and tells me that my rails are too high. Wants
permission to run them through the jointer, or table saw, to get them
down to the right height. "Sure, go ahead"! Three weeks later he
comes out and installs the rails and re-covers the table with Simonis
cloth. I get out my little 'ramp gage' and he laughs at me. "That's
not how we check rebound. We shoot a ball the full length of the
table (into a corner) and the ball should hit at least 8 rails". He
starts shooting and after a while he's almost 'throwing' the ball by
hand and the best he can do is about 5 rails. Once in a while 6.
Because of my nature I pay him in full and tell him to get lost.

Now, two years later, thinking that Golden West (the manufacturer of
my 20 yr. old table) will probably mount new rubbers, or confess that
my thin rails don't have enough mass for proper rebound, I was
expecting that they will cut new rails for me that are wider and more
massive than my 4" rails. No, we walk into the showroom, they
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
ramp (metal related) I went from a 16"-17" rebound to a consistent 23"
rebound.

BTW, while this doesn't sound like much, this is extremely slow
velocity ramp. It would be difficult to even shoot a ball at this
slow velocity. My point being is that at a medium speed shot the
percent improvement in rebound is much more than indicated by the
percentage improvement above. The force increases with the square of
the velocity. In fact, at these very slow speeds, I was able to pick
up an extra inch of rebound simply by polishing the balls. Proved it
with 5 different balls. While I saw no visible grit or lint on the
cloth, a good brushing also added about on half of an inch. Of course
all you players know that cleanliness is very critical at very slow
speeds.

Sorry about the long rant. I'm just elated that after 4 years of
putting up with this (tired of spending money) Golden West solved my
problem, did not try to sell me a new table, did not try to sell me
new rubber etc., but simply told me to lower my cushions.

While using a nickel works, I am fully capable of putting the rails
either through my table saw or the jointer for a more permanent fix.

WHAT COULD HAVE GONE WRONG:
Three possibilities: While the last tech new my rails were high and
asked permission to run them through the table saw, he either forgot
(had them for four weeks) or his new apprentice forgot. Another
possibility is that he ran them through the saw BEFORE installing the
new rubber. The new rubber, having a different profile (K6) is
possibly higher than the old. Golden West tells me that all the
rubber with different profiles have different heights and must be
compensated for.

Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

Ivan Vegvary

(cross posted to rec.sport.billiards)

Fascinating! Thanks for the report

Gunner, modest pool player, who once upon a time,many years ago,
wouldnt play for less than $100 a game.

Oh I still have that georgious 1897 Brunswick "Admiral" snooker table
for sale if anyone is interested.



My book comes out in January. If it does good, I'll buy it, and come down
and shop your yard, too. Man, do I want a snooker table, and that one would
be a peach. Is it one piece one inch slate? All I gotta do is make that
first million.

Steve

On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 19:03:23 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...
On Dec 2, 3:53 am, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Ivan,
A very interesting story. So as a result, I assume you now know the
correct point of intersection of the cushion on the ball's
hemisphere. I assume that point to be just above center, but I really
don't know. Could you please tell us?
Steve


Regulation balls are 2-1/4" high. Regulation rails should be set at
62-1/2% ± 1% of ball hight. That translates to approximately 1-3/8
inches.
Obviously, a center-ball rail height would give the optimum rebound.
Below center would send balls flying off the table. Above center
captures the balls (they get wedged under) for an instant before
rebound.
Since I play more of a 'finesse' game (14-1, or straight billiards) I
rarely have occasion to slam the ball and send it off the table. In
fact, since the rebound is better, all my shots can be made with a
softer stroke.

Happy holidays!!
Ivan Vegvary

Thanks for the info. I have wondered if mine was right, and now I know how
to check. I moved it once, and it was not that difficult. But I've been
wondering about the cushions and how bouncy they are compared to others. I
need to make a ramp, like you did, and compare some tables. I also need to
recover it soon. I used to think green was the only color for felt, but the
burgundy goes better with our color scheme, so may go burgundy again. Going
to select a high quality felt, too.

Steve

Just never use yellow or any light color for table cover.

It will drive you nuts and **** up your game big time.

One of the effects is on depth perception.......


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 19:06:00 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:42:30 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:


SHORT STORY:
Took one of my rails to Golden West Billiards (only major 'made in
America' table manufacturer aside from Olhausen) and complained about
lack of rebound. Was immediately told that my rails are too high and
suggested I simply slide either a penny or a nickel (metal related)
underneath the outside edge of the rails in order to tip the nose of
the rails a little lower. SOLVED MY PROBLEM!

LONG STORY:
Live in the Portland Oregon region. Brought my table with me from
S.F. Bay area about 7 years ago. Left it unassembled (properly
wrapped) in my unheated shop for over a year. Finally had one of the
local table mechanics set my level my slates and recover the table.
On a medium stroke shot the ball would simply 'thud' into the cushion
and rebound a mere 6 to 8 inches. This was happening on four of the
six cushions, almost the full length of the cushion. In frustration,
I ripped off the cushion cloth and noticed that the rubber was visibly
cracked and hard as a rock. Called the idiot (he is the one that
removed the old cloth from the stored cushions) and asked him why he
would re-cover a table that was obviously defective. Said he was
sorry and would make it up to me by installing new rubbers at a good
price. Did so, re-covered the table again (faster cloth) and I was
still unsatisfied.
Made myself a 24" metal ramp (metal related) that had a 3/4" rise at
one end. Would let a ball roll down and measured the rebound. I
would also go to pool halls and repeat the same measurement. On the
WORST tables at the pool halls the rebound distance was almost twice
the distance as upon mine. Waited a year, found an old mechanic with
40 years of experience, said he would re-cushion with the best German
rubber having a K-6 profile. I delivered my six rails to his shop.
Calls me 2 weeks later and tells me that my rails are too high. Wants
permission to run them through the jointer, or table saw, to get them
down to the right height. "Sure, go ahead"! Three weeks later he
comes out and installs the rails and re-covers the table with Simonis
cloth. I get out my little 'ramp gage' and he laughs at me. "That's
not how we check rebound. We shoot a ball the full length of the
table (into a corner) and the ball should hit at least 8 rails". He
starts shooting and after a while he's almost 'throwing' the ball by
hand and the best he can do is about 5 rails. Once in a while 6.
Because of my nature I pay him in full and tell him to get lost.

Now, two years later, thinking that Golden West (the manufacturer of
my 20 yr. old table) will probably mount new rubbers, or confess that
my thin rails don't have enough mass for proper rebound, I was
expecting that they will cut new rails for me that are wider and more
massive than my 4" rails. No, we walk into the showroom, they
immediately take the rail out of my hand, place it on a showroom table
opposite their rail and show me that it's too high. They say take it
home, try sliding a penny under and if that does not work try a
nickel. Pennies are cheaper but I went with the nickel. Using my
ramp (metal related) I went from a 16"-17" rebound to a consistent 23"
rebound.

BTW, while this doesn't sound like much, this is extremely slow
velocity ramp. It would be difficult to even shoot a ball at this
slow velocity. My point being is that at a medium speed shot the
percent improvement in rebound is much more than indicated by the
percentage improvement above. The force increases with the square of
the velocity. In fact, at these very slow speeds, I was able to pick
up an extra inch of rebound simply by polishing the balls. Proved it
with 5 different balls. While I saw no visible grit or lint on the
cloth, a good brushing also added about on half of an inch. Of course
all you players know that cleanliness is very critical at very slow
speeds.

Sorry about the long rant. I'm just elated that after 4 years of
putting up with this (tired of spending money) Golden West solved my
problem, did not try to sell me a new table, did not try to sell me
new rubber etc., but simply told me to lower my cushions.

While using a nickel works, I am fully capable of putting the rails
either through my table saw or the jointer for a more permanent fix.

WHAT COULD HAVE GONE WRONG:
Three possibilities: While the last tech new my rails were high and
asked permission to run them through the table saw, he either forgot
(had them for four weeks) or his new apprentice forgot. Another
possibility is that he ran them through the saw BEFORE installing the
new rubber. The new rubber, having a different profile (K6) is
possibly higher than the old. Golden West tells me that all the
rubber with different profiles have different heights and must be
compensated for.

Comments appreciated. Have fun playing!!!

Ivan Vegvary

(cross posted to rec.sport.billiards)

Fascinating! Thanks for the report

Gunner, modest pool player, who once upon a time,many years ago,
wouldnt play for less than $100 a game.

Oh I still have that georgious 1897 Brunswick "Admiral" snooker table
for sale if anyone is interested.



My book comes out in January. If it does good, I'll buy it, and come down
and shop your yard, too. Man, do I want a snooker table, and that one would
be a peach. Is it one piece one inch slate? All I gotta do is make that
first million.

Steve

2.5" slate. Really. Big one. I think..think its 5x10 foot. 3 piece
slate in excellent shape and the table was recovered in the not too
distant past.

Got both snooker balls and the same size balls in 8 ball configuration.
Tiny little *******s G

Got two Brunswick cue racks and about 15 cues, bridge and an electric
ball polisher as well as a table cover

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

"Gunner Asch" wrote


Got both snooker balls and the same size balls in 8 ball configuration.
Tiny little *******s G

I used to play snooker a lot. When I was a kid, the youth center had three
pool tables, one snooker and one billiard. You had to work your way up to
the snooker table. You had to be tall as a cue stick to play. If you
knocked a ball off a regular table, you had a one hour penalty. If you
knocked a second one off, you had a one day penalty from that time of day.
If you knocked a snooker ball off, you had an immediate one day penalty.
Period.

I used to play "golf" and "insurance" on a snooker table for money when I
used to play a lot, and I liked to just go in and practice with a set of 2
1/8" regular set of balls (yellow one, black eight, etc), and would play for
hours by myself, kind of a Zen thing. Slows your stroke down.

We did an old HOA last month, and their pool room had three snooker, one
billiard, and six regulation pool tables, all Brunswick. Whoever put it
together was a pool player. The place was "manufactured homes", but was the
nicest I have ever seen in Las Vegas. HUGE HUGE rec area and pool and
interior rooms. Those old Brunswicks are about $3500 each now.

I am going to have to work on the wife, and perhaps even build a room for
the snooker table, but if I make a million on the book, I'll just add it on
to the shop.

I'm serious. I'll keep it filed in my brain. And I need a couple of other
items that I will be contacting you about soon.

Steve

On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 08:15:22 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote


Got both snooker balls and the same size balls in 8 ball configuration.
Tiny little *******s G

I used to play snooker a lot. When I was a kid, the youth center had three
pool tables, one snooker and one billiard. You had to work your way up to
the snooker table. You had to be tall as a cue stick to play. If you
knocked a ball off a regular table, you had a one hour penalty. If you
knocked a second one off, you had a one day penalty from that time of day.
If you knocked a snooker ball off, you had an immediate one day penalty.
Period.

I used to play "golf" and "insurance" on a snooker table for money when I
used to play a lot, and I liked to just go in and practice with a set of 2
1/8" regular set of balls (yellow one, black eight, etc), and would play for
hours by myself, kind of a Zen thing. Slows your stroke down.

We did an old HOA last month, and their pool room had three snooker, one
billiard, and six regulation pool tables, all Brunswick. Whoever put it
together was a pool player. The place was "manufactured homes", but was the
nicest I have ever seen in Las Vegas. HUGE HUGE rec area and pool and
interior rooms. Those old Brunswicks are about $3500 each now.

I am going to have to work on the wife, and perhaps even build a room for
the snooker table, but if I make a million on the book, I'll just add it on
to the shop.

I'm serious. I'll keep it filed in my brain. And I need a couple of other
items that I will be contacting you about soon.

Steve

805.732.5308

Cell, 24/7

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,