Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

Guess that's it. Thanks' gang... Have a Great Holiday!

Fred Fowler III

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Phred, you might do some double checking. I seriously doubt that
you have 3 phase service at your house. This may make it a deal
breaker although there are some work arounds to simulate 3 phase.
It would be prohibitively expensive or even impossible to have it
run to your property.

I don't think typical shed joisting will be able to carry or even
allow you to move across to a position. The machine really wants
a concrete floor.

I've not seen your mill, but most are quite top heavy. I can't
envision getting it onto a tilt bed wrecker.

I hope some others will prove me wrong or have alternate ideas.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .


"Phred" wrote in message
...
Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact
clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other
tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways
and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch
a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well?
It's
only going 12 miles.

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I
would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she
dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine
is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on
it's
new foundation?

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the
house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look
for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same
panel?

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop
now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus
I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into
the
living room.

Guess that's it. Thanks' gang... Have a Great Holiday!

Fred Fowler III

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Easy to move it on a wrecker (I did that once when I bought my old
Bridgeport).

Easy to solve the three phase problem in at least two ways, phase
converter and VFD.

If I did not have concrete floor, I would at least want 1.5 inches of
plywood with sthe assurance that it will not rot in the long run.

A regular Bridgeport weighs just one ton.

i

On 2010-11-24, DanG wrote:
Phred, you might do some double checking. I seriously doubt that
you have 3 phase service at your house. This may make it a deal
breaker although there are some work arounds to simulate 3 phase.
It would be prohibitively expensive or even impossible to have it
run to your property.

I don't think typical shed joisting will be able to carry or even
allow you to move across to a position. The machine really wants
a concrete floor.

I've not seen your mill, but most are quite top heavy. I can't
envision getting it onto a tilt bed wrecker.

I hope some others will prove me wrong or have alternate ideas.

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Phred wrote:

Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

Guess that's it. Thanks' gang... Have a Great Holiday!

Fred Fowler III

A regular non-CNC Bridgeport is about 2,000# but it only has about a 6
sq. ft. base, so the floor loading is up to about 450#/sq. ft. between
the machine and the potential 500# workpiece on it. It is also very top
heavy so you need a stable floor as well, a bit of floor sag could equal
the mill landing on top of you while you're using it.

They can be easily moved with a tilt-bed wrecker - IF - they are bolted
down to a suitable palette to increase the footprint so they don't tip
over. Removing the head and ram assembly reduces the COG a lot which is
also helpful and pretty easy to do with an engine hoist.

Power is the easy part, just run a nice sub-panel for the shed. Trench
some 2" PVC conduit and put a small 12-20 circuit 60A or 100A panel in
the shed. Then you have space to connect circuits for your mill VFD,
lights, etc.

Be warned - Keeping the mill in the shed will keep coolant smell out of
the house, but unless you keep a pair of shoes out at the shed to change
into before entering, you *will* track swarf into the house. My shop is
80' from the house and I'm picking swarf out of the carpet routinely.

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Pete C. wrote:

(...)

Removing the head and ram assembly reduces the COG a lot which is
also helpful and pretty easy to do with an engine hoist.

I removed & replaced the head on my Jet JVM-836
without an engine hoist. I placed wood cribbing
under the head and ran the table up to take the
load off the ram.

Fasteners out and lower the table with the head
on it. Installation was also drama - free.

Easy peasy.

I ASSume that I could dead - lift the ram off the
column without assistance, if that became necessary.

--Winston

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

(...)

Removing the head and ram assembly reduces the COG a lot which is
also helpful and pretty easy to do with an engine hoist.

I removed & replaced the head on my Jet JVM-836
without an engine hoist. I placed wood cribbing
under the head and ran the table up to take the
load off the ram.

Fasteners out and lower the table with the head
on it. Installation was also drama - free.

Easy peasy.

I ASSume that I could dead - lift the ram off the
column without assistance, if that became necessary.

--Winston

Must be a small machine, a Bridgeport head and ram is easily 500#, no
dead lifting unless perhaps you're Samoan...

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

(...)

Removing the head and ram assembly reduces the COG a lot which is
also helpful and pretty easy to do with an engine hoist.

I removed & replaced the head on my Jet JVM-836
without an engine hoist. I placed wood cribbing
under the head and ran the table up to take the
load off the ram.

Fasteners out and lower the table with the head
on it. Installation was also drama - free.

Easy peasy.

I ASSume that I could dead - lift the ram off the
column without assistance, if that became necessary.

--Winston

Oh, I see you're talking about just the head, I'm talking about removing
the entire head and ram assembly at the point where the four bolts
attach it all to the base. That drops the COG a lot, just removing the
head would have little effect.

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

(...)

Removing the head and ram assembly reduces the COG a lot which is
also helpful and pretty easy to do with an engine hoist.

I removed& replaced the head on my Jet JVM-836
without an engine hoist. I placed wood cribbing
under the head and ran the table up to take the
load off the ram.

Fasteners out and lower the table with the head
on it. Installation was also drama - free.

Easy peasy.

I ASSume that I could dead - lift the ram off the
column without assistance, if that became necessary.

--Winston

Oh, I see you're talking about just the head, I'm talking about removing
the entire head and ram assembly at the point where the four bolts
attach it all to the base. That drops the COG a lot, just removing the
head would have little effect.

I'll bet that strapping the head to the table and
lowering it all the way would lower the COG appreciably,
especially if one rotated the head parallel to the
table first.

I did the first part of that operation and found it
to be quick and easy. I agree that a largish
cherry picker would come in very handy to remove
the ram.

--Winston

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On 11/24/2010 2:58 PM, Phred wrote:
Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

I suggest, as have others, that you remove what you can in place - head,
ram, ram base (upper base). You and a help should be able to load those
into a pickup manually. If you have access to a hoist or cherry picker,
use that. remember you have to unload it at the house where such tools
may not be available.
I'd also load up any tooling that goes with it so it doesn't walk off
while you work out the logistics.
The above has the added benefit of reducing the chance that they
might back out of the deal.

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

Absolutely, if they tie it down properly. As someone else said, it's
best to have it bolted to a heavy skid. You may also be able to
scrounge. some heavy angle iron or square tubing in about 4 or 5-ft
lengths, drill it to fit the base holes, and bolt it to that. You could
leave it on if you end up parking it on a weak floor, to spread the load

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Pour a floor, or at minimum a dedicated pad for the machine.
But, unless your do a whole floor, getting it inside the shed and onto a
pad is much more difficult. so pour a floor.

This may delay moving the mill, so you might choose to move it to a
storage spot while you prep the shop.

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

You have 3-phase washer & drier ???
I'm impressed!

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

20x20 is a good size for a hobby machine shop.

Sounds like fun.
--
I can see 2012 from my front porch

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On 11/24/2010 02:58 PM, Phred wrote:

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.
If you have grade-level access to the basement, I would STRONGLY advise
putting it in the house. Only on the VERY rarest of occasions have I
had ANY complaint about smell from the mill. I use a water-based
cutting fluid mostly, and even if I brush on some cutting oil and it
smokes, it doesn't really get more than 20 feet.

We do get some chips tracked into the house, but I have shop shoes and a
floor mat to rub them off on. You can get a step-pulley version of a
Bridgeport to fit under a pretty low ceiling, but the varispeed version
is quite a bit taller.

Well, the REAL reasoning behind this is it is SO MUCH nicer to work in a
relatively warm basement than a freezing uninsulated shop that you are
trying (but failing) to keep warm.

Jon

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

(...)

Removing the head and ram assembly reduces the COG a lot which is
also helpful and pretty easy to do with an engine hoist.

I removed& replaced the head on my Jet JVM-836
without an engine hoist. I placed wood cribbing
under the head and ran the table up to take the
load off the ram.

Fasteners out and lower the table with the head
on it. Installation was also drama - free.

Easy peasy.

I ASSume that I could dead - lift the ram off the
column without assistance, if that became necessary.

--Winston

Oh, I see you're talking about just the head, I'm talking about removing
the entire head and ram assembly at the point where the four bolts
attach it all to the base. That drops the COG a lot, just removing the
head would have little effect.

I'll bet that strapping the head to the table and
lowering it all the way would lower the COG appreciably,
especially if one rotated the head parallel to the
table first.

Not in my experience. The ram, ram turret and head adapter are a lot of
weight up high, the head is a small portion of the total. It's so easy
to remove the entire section, just 4 bolts, why not?


I did the first part of that operation and found it
to be quick and easy. I agree that a largish
cherry picker would come in very handy to remove
the ram.

The head, ram and ram turret all balance fairly nicely for a single pick
with an engine hoist, and it's just four bolts to remove the whole mess.
With that assembly bolted to the palette along side the base and table
assembly the COG of the palette is quite low and it's safe to handle at
angles like on a tilt-bed wrecker. I just did this a few months ago with
Iggy's old manual mill, and I've done it several times with my old
manual mill.

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

RBnDFW wrote:

On 11/24/2010 2:58 PM, Phred wrote:
Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

I suggest, as have others, that you remove what you can in place - head,
ram, ram base (upper base). You and a help should be able to load those
into a pickup manually. If you have access to a hoist or cherry picker,
use that. remember you have to unload it at the house where such tools
may not be available.
I'd also load up any tooling that goes with it so it doesn't walk off
while you work out the logistics.
The above has the added benefit of reducing the chance that they
might back out of the deal.

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

Absolutely, if they tie it down properly. As someone else said, it's
best to have it bolted to a heavy skid. You may also be able to
scrounge. some heavy angle iron or square tubing in about 4 or 5-ft
lengths, drill it to fit the base holes, and bolt it to that. You could
leave it on if you end up parking it on a weak floor, to spread the load

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Pour a floor, or at minimum a dedicated pad for the machine.
But, unless your do a whole floor, getting it inside the shed and onto a
pad is much more difficult. so pour a floor.

This may delay moving the mill, so you might choose to move it to a
storage spot while you prep the shop.

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

You have 3-phase washer & drier ???
I'm impressed!

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

20x20 is a good size for a hobby machine shop.

A good size for the first day or two, then the expansion plans will set
in. I'm at about 35x35 and it isn't nearly big enough.

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On 2010-11-24, Jon Elson wrote:
On 11/24/2010 02:58 PM, Phred wrote:

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.
If you have grade-level access to the basement, I would STRONGLY advise
putting it in the house. Only on the VERY rarest of occasions have I
had ANY complaint about smell from the mill. I use a water-based
cutting fluid mostly, and even if I brush on some cutting oil and it
smokes, it doesn't really get more than 20 feet.

We do get some chips tracked into the house, but I have shop shoes and a
floor mat to rub them off on. You can get a step-pulley version of a
Bridgeport to fit under a pretty low ceiling, but the varispeed version
is quite a bit taller.

Well, the REAL reasoning behind this is it is SO MUCH nicer to work in a
relatively warm basement than a freezing uninsulated shop that you are
trying (but failing) to keep warm.

Jon

You forgot to mention condensation, I agree with the rest.

i

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Pete C. wrote:
RBnDFW wrote:

On 11/24/2010 2:58 PM, Phred wrote:
Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and
are all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

I suggest, as have others, that you remove what you can in place -
head, ram, ram base (upper base). You and a help should be able to
load those into a pickup manually. If you have access to a hoist or
cherry picker, use that. remember you have to unload it at the house
where such tools may not be available.
I'd also load up any tooling that goes with it so it doesn't walk
off while you work out the logistics.
The above has the added benefit of reducing the chance that they
might back out of the deal.

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a
SUV up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured
well? It's only going 12 miles.

Absolutely, if they tie it down properly. As someone else said, it's
best to have it bolted to a heavy skid. You may also be able to
scrounge. some heavy angle iron or square tubing in about 4 or 5-ft
lengths, drill it to fit the base holes, and bolt it to that. You
could leave it on if you end up parking it on a weak floor, to
spread the load

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is,
or should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on
it's new foundation?

Pour a floor, or at minimum a dedicated pad for the machine.
But, unless your do a whole floor, getting it inside the shed and
onto a pad is much more difficult. so pour a floor.

This may delay moving the mill, so you might choose to move it to a
storage spot while you prep the shop.

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house
for the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look
for... Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the
same panel?

You have 3-phase washer & drier ???
I'm impressed!

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

20x20 is a good size for a hobby machine shop.

A good size for the first day or two, then the expansion plans will
set in. I'm at about 35x35 and it isn't nearly big enough.

I guess I shouldn't bitch , she did help me find funding for a 12X21
carport . Which has one end butted up to the front of my 8X12 shed , where
all the machinery resides . Pretty soon I better get around to closing half
of it in with that sheet metal I've been hoarding .
Of course I don't have much back yard now , but that's just less grass to
mow .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On 11/24/2010 12:58 PM, Phred wrote:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

I think you should have tried to talk them down a bit more... BG
Geez, with only 100 hours, how much rework could it need?

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

I've used a sign crane company to move several machines. A mill just
needs to be offset on the bed a bit to clear the crane boom when it's
lowered. Last time I talked to him, it was $75/hr with a 2 hour min,
which includes travel time. $150 for a short haul move seems right
reasonable to me. But if you live in a residential area, such a rig is
certain to attract a fair bit of attention, which you may or may not
care about.

I've also seen machines moved with tow trucks, a surface grinder I sold
some years ago was picked up with one.

Jon

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Jon Anderson fired this volley in
:

I've used a sign crane company to move several machines. A mill just
needs to be offset on the bed a bit to clear the crane boom when it's
lowered. Last time I talked to him, it was $75/hr with a 2 hour min,
which includes travel time. $150 for a short haul move seems right
reasonable to me. But if you live in a residential area, such a rig is
certain to attract a fair bit of attention, which you may or may not
care about.

I've also seen machines moved with tow trucks, a surface grinder I sold
some years ago was picked up with one.



Similarly, I have twice hired a local wrecker company with a _BIG_ boom
machine to unload machines from a flatbed, and sling them into my shop in
one move.

When I bought my first mill, I hired a wrecker on both ends of the trip
-- one to put it in the box truck (couldn't get a flatbed that day), and
one to off-load and "insert" it. With the R2E4, the seller fork lifted
it onto my trailer, and I only needed the wrecker on my end. The first
time, it was about $60 per "lift". On the last (about five years later)
it was $125.00. Best money I ever spent. The guy had all the correct
soft slings, etc...

I built my shop so the main entry door is in the middle of an 8' wide
removable wall panel. With 30 minutes of work, I can pull all the lags
fastening it to the rest of the structure, and just slide it aside. Then
I have a nice wide gate into which to push such things as 4000lb+ mills.

I have them set it down on rollers for the first delivery, until I'm sure
of the exact placement. Then I Johnson Bar it up off the rollers and
onto the slab.

LLoyd

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:16:07 -0600, Ignoramus7187
wrote:

Easy to move it on a wrecker (I did that once when I bought my old
Bridgeport).

Easy to solve the three phase problem in at least two ways, phase
converter and VFD.

If I did not have concrete floor, I would at least want 1.5 inches of
plywood with sthe assurance that it will not rot in the long run.

And put 4x4s /6x6s under the floor and well shimmed. Then reshim next
spring.

Or..cut a 4'x4' hole in the floor and pour a slab under it

BPs weigh a ton..literally...and its in a relatively small
footprint..which makes supporting them easy..but puts all the weight in
a very small area



A regular Bridgeport weighs just one ton.

i

On 2010-11-24, DanG wrote:
Phred, you might do some double checking. I seriously doubt that
you have 3 phase service at your house. This may make it a deal
breaker although there are some work arounds to simulate 3 phase.
It would be prohibitively expensive or even impossible to have it
run to your property.

I don't think typical shed joisting will be able to carry or even
allow you to move across to a position. The machine really wants
a concrete floor.

I've not seen your mill, but most are quite top heavy. I can't
envision getting it onto a tilt bed wrecker.

I hope some others will prove me wrong or have alternate ideas.


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

"Phred" wrote...
Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

Guess that's it. Thanks' gang... Have a Great Holiday!

Fred Fowler III


Hi Fred,

Can't speak from experience of moving a Bridgeportalike, but here's my take
on moving 2 tons of toolroom lathe...

I used a flatbed trailer behing little sis's 4x4, the seller was able to
load it with a (big) forklift loader, several 3-ton rated ratchet straps to
hold it down, towed fine behind a Range Rover! The difficult bit was
unloading, particularly when we discovered there *wasn't enough room* to get
the trailer backed up to where it needed to go...

We ended up with a Tirfor hand winch pulling the trailer arse-backwards into
position (couple of handy trees as anchorages), then had to get it off the
trailer - the trailer had a hydraulic jack to tilt the bed, but first we
(hulking son, one of his mates and I) used the "Egyptian method"[1] (long
lever, pry it up 1/2", wedge, repeat) to get a few lengths of scaffold pole
underneath as rollers, laid a path of half a dozen 2x4's (levelled with
housebricks underneath) from beneath the trailer ramp to the concrete in
front of the Shed of Danger, and attached the trailer's winch to the lathe
to prevent it rolling off out of control.

Jacked the front of the trailer bed up, it rolled gently down until the
first roller got stuck in the gap between bed and ramp...

"Egyptianed" the leading edge, another roller on the ramp, gentle roll
downhill until the leading edge grounded on the 2x4's...

No Firm Place for the big prybar...

Had a beer or two and scratched our heads, sucked through teeth, looked at
it from all kinds of angles...

Attached winches to a pair of trees, ratchet strap from lathe to another
tree, released trailer brakes, winched trailer out from under it (adding
scaffold pole rollers as we went) - the thump of it dropping the last 1/2"
from the trailer ramp was quite impressive :)

Decided we'd had enough (and the trailer had to go back), covered it with a
tarp, had a few more beers!

I think if you can add a skid to the base and get it on a trailer / wrecker
you're half-way there, the high C-of-G will mean the skid *needs* to extend
a few feet in each direction from the base, if you can make it
smooth-bottomed you can use the scaffold pole rollers to move it once it's
on the ground at your end of the haul, as long as you have a hard surface
to roll it over (4x2's are fine, as long as they're level and it won't tip).

Re the floor, concrete's the way to go, a minimum 4" slab, preferably
reinforced with some steel mesh - a wooden floor would need to be Very
Sturdy, by the time you've bought the lumber it'll be as cheap to pour a
slab! You may want to put 2" of poly foam (and a damp-proof membrane) under
the slab in the interests of warm feet and dry machinery? While you're doing
it, insulate the shed walls and roof, put in a wood-burner, a nice comfy
chair and a barrel of Sherry :) You won't be able to get BBC Radio 4 though,
sadly...

For 3-phase, Ebay yourself a 2 or 3HP VFD inverter (excellent devices,
varispeed for the machine and way cheaper than having "real" 3-phase
installed) and allow yourself a minimum 30 Amp 240V feed for the Shed: I've
installed a 63A feed to mine in buried armoured cable, overload and
earth-leakage breakers at the house "head end", local consumer unit with
overload breakers and leakage-trip, several circuits for the different
machines and utility power and lights. Check your local electrical code re
what you're allowed to install for yourself and (e.g.) how deep the cable
needs to be buried - here in the UK we're not supposed (under penalty of
law!) to install anything ourselves, and we have to go down 18" with the
buried cables... A Good Idea is to have the lighting on the
non-earth-leakage-trip side of the panel, so you aren't plunged into
darkness with a spinning 12" flycutter under your nose... The Accepted
Practice here is a 100mA time-delayed leakage trip at the head end alongside
the "sub-main" breaker, cutout switch in the local panel split to the
lighting breaker and a 30mA "instant" leakage trip feeding the power circuit
breakers. You may want / need to have a local ground spike (or several) so
the metal parts of the apparatus are at the same potential as the
surroundings, in which case you may be best separating the cable armour's
ground from the shed's to avoid ground currents.

Enjoy your new Big Boy's Toy!

Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

[1] Strictly, the Israelite Slave method, but the bosses always get the
credit ;)

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:58:03 -0500, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

Guess that's it. Thanks' gang... Have a Great Holiday!

Fred Fowler III


WOW! So many great ideas! I'm gonna put this on hold fer a day...I
dinna ken about the power, the VF modulator sounds right, I reckon I
can juice this from that 100A panel... Buried of course... I may get a
nice old SB lathe too in this deal. Needs some work, but I'll have it
cutting in no time...

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:56:53 -0500, Phred
scribed:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:58:03 -0500, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

Guess that's it. Thanks' gang... Have a Great Holiday!

Fred Fowler III


WOW! So many great ideas! I'm gonna put this on hold fer a day...I
dinna ken about the power, the VF modulator sounds right, I reckon I
can juice this from that 100A panel... Buried of course... I may get a
nice old SB lathe too in this deal. Needs some work, but I'll have it
cutting in no time...

Also have a friend that owns a wrecker with one of the hoist that can
take a SUV out a tight parking spot. He Also does Repo work. I figure
that for 100B/H Plus a 12 pack of the Sam Adams... Good to go. I will
get it moved. Palletted nicely Great help guys!

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:16:07 -0600, Ignoramus7187
wrote:

Easy to move it on a wrecker (I did that once when I bought my old
Bridgeport).

Easy to solve the three phase problem in at least two ways, phase
converter and VFD.

If I did not have concrete floor, I would at least want 1.5 inches of
plywood with sthe assurance that it will not rot in the long run.

And put 4x4s /6x6s under the floor and well shimmed. Then reshim next
spring.

Or..cut a 4'x4' hole in the floor and pour a slab under it

BPs weigh a ton..literally...and its in a relatively small
footprint..which makes supporting them easy..but puts all the weight in
a very small area

Floor loading of around 450 pounds per square foot for the mill, 500# of
table load and some odds and ends like collet racks, DRO, VFD, etc.

Moving a Bridgeport Style machine... (and other questions)
 

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:56:53 -0500, Phred
wrote:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:58:03 -0500, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

I was asked to dispose of a Jet/Max BP style machine, exact clone of
the Bridgeport mill, including DRO, cutters and other tooling... I
figured I'd grab it for myself and rework it in my spare time.
Actually it only has about 100 hours on it, I trammed the ways and are
all well and good. So good deal for free.

1st question is how to transport it to my house...

Can a flatbed tilt wrecker handle this? I figure if it can winch a SUV
up, it can handle a 1 ton machine as long as it is secured well? It's
only going 12 miles.

What type of floor does this need? I have a 20x20 shed that I would
like to put it in, but it's raised on cinder blocks (so she dinna
rot). Can I use lolly's just under the floor where the machine is, or
should I move the shed, pour a floor, and drop said shed back on it's
new foundation?

Also, I need to run 240 for the 3 phase... I have it in the house for
the W/D, but having never run power outside, what should I look for...
Buried line? Can I also run lighting for the shed off the same panel?

This was a Garden Shed, but I think it will do better as a shop now
that I have a machine. My basement is too low and confined, plus I
really dinna want the smell of coolant and swarf wafting into the
living room.

Guess that's it. Thanks' gang... Have a Great Holiday!

Fred Fowler III


WOW! So many great ideas! I'm gonna put this on hold fer a day...I
dinna ken about the power, the VF modulator sounds right, I reckon I
can juice this from that 100A panel... Buried of course... I may get a
nice old SB lathe too in this deal. Needs some work, but I'll have it
cutting in no time...

VFD..and yeah..you only need one rated at 3hp for the average 2hp motor.

My big Gorton Mastermill runs off a 5hp VFD..and its a 3hp motor and my
Rockwell 3/4hp drill press has one also
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunneras...69965049254354
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunneras...69903922343714

Everything else 3ph runs off a 5hp rotary phase converter.

Gunner


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,