Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,620
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

I needed to replace bulbs in the shop lights above my '63 Suburban.
This thing's been sitting there for just about ever, while I got more
interested in building planes than wrenching on trucks.

It hadn't run for months, other than occasionally turning it over to
keep the carburettor wet. I had tried rather hard to start it about 6-9
months ago, and utterly failed. So today I was getting ready to
duct-tape a 3-gallon boat tank to the damn thing and just get it
running. Before I did I decided to go ahead and play with ether and gas
down it's little mechanical gullet -- and damned if it not only started,
but kept on running! This is kind of a mechanical marvel, because the
gas that's in the tank is more kerosene than gasoline.

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights
by replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate
doing that), and got it back in (after it quit, and I had another mild
session of flogging it with raw gas and ether).

So, I'm (a) happy that I got the job done, and that maybe it's not as
bad as I thought, and (b) puzzled as heck as to why it works _now_!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,507
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

Tim Wescott wrote:

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights
by replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate
doing that), and got it back in (after it quit, and I had another mild
session of flogging it with raw gas and ether).

So, I'm (a) happy that I got the job done, and that maybe it's not as
bad as I thought, and (b) puzzled as heck as to why it works _now_!

Blew the cobwebs out? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,538
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:11:40 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I needed to replace bulbs in the shop lights above my '63 Suburban.
This thing's been sitting there for just about ever, while I got more
interested in building planes than wrenching on trucks.

It hadn't run for months, other than occasionally turning it over to
keep the carburettor wet. I had tried rather hard to start it about 6-9
months ago, and utterly failed. So today I was getting ready to
duct-tape a 3-gallon boat tank to the damn thing and just get it
running. Before I did I decided to go ahead and play with ether and gas
down it's little mechanical gullet -- and damned if it not only started,
but kept on running! This is kind of a mechanical marvel, because the
gas that's in the tank is more kerosene than gasoline.

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights
by replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate
doing that), and got it back in (after it quit, and I had another mild
session of flogging it with raw gas and ether).

So, I'm (a) happy that I got the job done, and that maybe it's not as
bad as I thought, and (b) puzzled as heck as to why it works _now_!

You likely had the poor thing flooded to death 6-9 months ago and the
plugs dried out enough that, using ether, you were able to light the
"kerosene" this time.

Second start after putting the new bulbs in the shop it was still
slightly warm, so it was likely a BIT easier to get the stuff lit. I'd
definitely drain it out and run some fresh gas through it. If you can
get a couple cans of Av Gas it works real good for stoage. Two years
from now it will still be fresher than 6 week old mogas with ethanol
in it.
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:11:40 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

*Snip*.
This thing's been sitting there for just about ever, while I got more
interested in building planes than wrenching on trucks.

*Snip*

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights
by replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate
doing that),

*Snip*

I foresee a slight issue potentially forming here...

H.
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,620
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

On 11/19/2010 09:01 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:11:40 -0800, Tim
wrote:

I needed to replace bulbs in the shop lights above my '63 Suburban.
This thing's been sitting there for just about ever, while I got more
interested in building planes than wrenching on trucks.

It hadn't run for months, other than occasionally turning it over to
keep the carburettor wet. I had tried rather hard to start it about 6-9
months ago, and utterly failed. So today I was getting ready to
duct-tape a 3-gallon boat tank to the damn thing and just get it
running. Before I did I decided to go ahead and play with ether and gas
down it's little mechanical gullet -- and damned if it not only started,
but kept on running! This is kind of a mechanical marvel, because the
gas that's in the tank is more kerosene than gasoline.

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights
by replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate
doing that), and got it back in (after it quit, and I had another mild
session of flogging it with raw gas and ether).

So, I'm (a) happy that I got the job done, and that maybe it's not as
bad as I thought, and (b) puzzled as heck as to why it works _now_!

You likely had the poor thing flooded to death 6-9 months ago and the
plugs dried out enough that, using ether, you were able to light the
"kerosene" this time.


It would start before, but not keep running -- this time I put _lots_ of
gas down the secondary, and it kept running. My thoughts went, in
order: "OK, it'll stop any time now. Gee, it's sure running a long time
on that gas I poured in. Wow, could it be??? Hey! It's running off
it's tank!!!" etc.

Second start after putting the new bulbs in the shop it was still
slightly warm, so it was likely a BIT easier to get the stuff lit. I'd
definitely drain it out and run some fresh gas through it. If you can
get a couple cans of Av Gas it works real good for stoage. Two years
from now it will still be fresher than 6 week old mogas with ethanol
in it.


I know a pilot. That's a good idea.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,620
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

On 11/19/2010 08:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:21:19 -0800, JR North
wrote:

The old gas is prolly too weak to fire cold. Better drain that stuff
pronto. Either flush the lines, or hook up the boat tank to the fuel
line at the tank, run the new gas through it for a while, then replace
the fuel filter. Also, unless you run it at WOT, the secondary float
bowl won't be cleared,
JR


Assuming it has a 4 barrel carb, and also assuming that 4 barrel carb
is a Holley.

A Rochester Quadrajet only has one float bowl, and a Carter AFB
(unlikely on a Suburban) has 2 floats, but not Primary and secondary
from my recollection (left and right, not front and back) Same with
AVS and Thermoquad.

Stock, the "burban would have most likely been a 283 2bbl or a 230
six, with a possibility of a 292 six or a 327 V8. The 327 would have
been a 2bbl or 4bbl Rochester, as Holley was not used OEM untill about
'67 (on the Camaro Zapper)

I know, there is a good chance it is no longer stock, and even a
reasonable chance it has a Holley 4 pot on it, but that has not been
stated, so the "secondary float bowl" is pure conjecture, and a long
shot.


According to the information I found, a stock Chevy 'burban in 63 would
have come with a straight six or a 283 with a 2bbl. By the block
numbers this is a 327 'high performance' engine from the same era, with
the non-spread-bore Rochester 4bbl that was used before the Q-jet.

I suspect that the former owner (who was _convinced_ that he was a
mechanical genius) put the engine in -- it was cleverly conceived, but
poorly executed; I had to make a throttle arm to get it working really
right, and at the moment it's one of those "big wad of grease with a fan
and carburettor" engines.

At this point if I can get back to a program of warming things up and
driving it around the driveway three times a year, I'll be happy.

Here's a picture of the truck, sitting in a driveway that hasn't been
mine for nearly 10 years. The driver then got to go for a (20 foot)
ride in it yesterday, and thought it was kewl.

http://www.ccwebster.net/robintim/

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,355
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

Tim Wescott on Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:11:40 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I needed to replace bulbs in the shop lights above my '63 Suburban.
This thing's been sitting there for just about ever, while I got more
interested in building planes than wrenching on trucks.

It hadn't run for months, other than occasionally turning it over to
keep the carburettor wet. I had tried rather hard to start it about 6-9
months ago, and utterly failed. So today I was getting ready to
duct-tape a 3-gallon boat tank to the damn thing and just get it
running. Before I did I decided to go ahead and play with ether and gas
down it's little mechanical gullet -- and damned if it not only started,
but kept on running! This is kind of a mechanical marvel, because the
gas that's in the tank is more kerosene than gasoline.

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights
by replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate
doing that), and got it back in (after it quit, and I had another mild
session of flogging it with raw gas and ether).

So, I'm (a) happy that I got the job done, and that maybe it's not as
bad as I thought, and (b) puzzled as heck as to why it works _now_!


It is November, and Thanksgiving is coming. It doesn't want you
to think it is a turkey that you can kill, gut, and bake at 350.


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 247
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 09:47:41 -0800, Tim Wescott wrote:

Here's a picture of the truck, sitting in a driveway that hasn't been
mine for nearly 10 years. The driver then got to go for a (20 foot)
ride in it yesterday, and thought it was kewl.


Same kid who has the web site linked from yours? A bit Spartan even for my
tastes, but I do like the way it is secured! Don't worry his \secret\ is safe
with me;-)

http://www.ccwebster.net/robintim/

--
William
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,538
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 09:47:41 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 11/19/2010 08:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:21:19 -0800, JR North
wrote:

The old gas is prolly too weak to fire cold. Better drain that stuff
pronto. Either flush the lines, or hook up the boat tank to the fuel
line at the tank, run the new gas through it for a while, then replace
the fuel filter. Also, unless you run it at WOT, the secondary float
bowl won't be cleared,
JR


Assuming it has a 4 barrel carb, and also assuming that 4 barrel carb
is a Holley.

A Rochester Quadrajet only has one float bowl, and a Carter AFB
(unlikely on a Suburban) has 2 floats, but not Primary and secondary
from my recollection (left and right, not front and back) Same with
AVS and Thermoquad.

Stock, the "burban would have most likely been a 283 2bbl or a 230
six, with a possibility of a 292 six or a 327 V8. The 327 would have
been a 2bbl or 4bbl Rochester, as Holley was not used OEM untill about
'67 (on the Camaro Zapper)

I know, there is a good chance it is no longer stock, and even a
reasonable chance it has a Holley 4 pot on it, but that has not been
stated, so the "secondary float bowl" is pure conjecture, and a long
shot.


According to the information I found, a stock Chevy 'burban in 63 would
have come with a straight six or a 283 with a 2bbl. By the block
numbers this is a 327 'high performance' engine from the same era, with
the non-spread-bore Rochester 4bbl that was used before the Q-jet.

I suspect that the former owner (who was _convinced_ that he was a
mechanical genius) put the engine in -- it was cleverly conceived, but
poorly executed; I had to make a throttle arm to get it working really
right, and at the moment it's one of those "big wad of grease with a fan
and carburettor" engines.

At this point if I can get back to a program of warming things up and
driving it around the driveway three times a year, I'll be happy.

Here's a picture of the truck, sitting in a driveway that hasn't been
mine for nearly 10 years. The driver then got to go for a (20 foot)
ride in it yesterday, and thought it was kewl.

http://www.ccwebster.net/robintim/



Nice 'burb. That 327 HiPo should make it move along right smart when
all fixed up.
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,001
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

I would consider taking very good care of that engine, if I had it
(regardless of what happens to the truck over time). There is most likely
some info available as to whether the specific type of heads are original
equipment for the year of manufacture (I know that info was available in the
60s and 70s).
It doesn't look like a gem now, but it could be worth preserving.

As an investment, it's probably going to appreciate nicely as the boys get
older.
As long as it's not burning a lot of oil or has any loud mechanical wear
faults, it's probably better (value-wise) to not even perform any
unneccessary repairs, or modify it's present condition.

Perhaps most importantly, I'd keep a good air filter on it, followed by
clean oil and gas, and also protected coolant in a cold-season climate.

If you would happen to stumble upon a fuel injection setup of the same
vintage (or original NOS parts, valve covers etc), it would probably be best
to keep it as an option for future use (rebuild or overhaul time), but not
to just install it for the cool factor.

Maybe the only thing I'd consider eventually, would be to try to pressure
wash the flat black paint off, or maybe even try baking soda blasting, to
get back down to the original orange paint, and possibly touch up some rust
spots.

The truck body looks to be fairly solid from a distance, but that hole in
the windshield post seems like an odd place for a rust hole, if that's what
it is (just to the left of the dash knob marked C.. choke? looks more like a
cigarette lighter).

I believe the compression of the fuel/air mixture enhances it's
combustibility, and the slightly heated head/cylinder surfaces.. even if the
old stuff may be a little slow burning. Octane rating: maybe 10?

--
WB
..........


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
I needed to replace bulbs in the shop lights above my '63 Suburban. This
thing's been sitting there for just about ever, while I got more interested
in building planes than wrenching on trucks.

It hadn't run for months, other than occasionally turning it over to keep
the carburettor wet. I had tried rather hard to start it about 6-9 months
ago, and utterly failed. So today I was getting ready to duct-tape a
3-gallon boat tank to the damn thing and just get it running. Before I
did I decided to go ahead and play with ether and gas down it's little
mechanical gullet -- and damned if it not only started, but kept on
running! This is kind of a mechanical marvel, because the gas that's in
the tank is more kerosene than gasoline.

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights by
replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate doing
that), and got it back in (after it quit, and I had another mild session
of flogging it with raw gas and ether).

So, I'm (a) happy that I got the job done, and that maybe it's not as bad
as I thought, and (b) puzzled as heck as to why it works _now_!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,538
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:36:07 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I would consider taking very good care of that engine, if I had it
(regardless of what happens to the truck over time). There is most likely
some info available as to whether the specific type of heads are original
equipment for the year of manufacture (I know that info was available in the
60s and 70s).
It doesn't look like a gem now, but it could be worth preserving.

As an investment, it's probably going to appreciate nicely as the boys get
older.
As long as it's not burning a lot of oil or has any loud mechanical wear
faults, it's probably better (value-wise) to not even perform any
unneccessary repairs, or modify it's present condition.

Perhaps most importantly, I'd keep a good air filter on it, followed by
clean oil and gas, and also protected coolant in a cold-season climate.

If you would happen to stumble upon a fuel injection setup of the same
vintage (or original NOS parts, valve covers etc), it would probably be best
to keep it as an option for future use (rebuild or overhaul time), but not
to just install it for the cool factor.

Maybe the only thing I'd consider eventually, would be to try to pressure
wash the flat black paint off, or maybe even try baking soda blasting, to
get back down to the original orange paint, and possibly touch up some rust
spots.

The truck body looks to be fairly solid from a distance, but that hole in
the windshield post seems like an odd place for a rust hole, if that's what
it is (just to the left of the dash knob marked C.. choke? looks more like a
cigarette lighter).


Not out of the ordinary to rust there - there is another peice of
steel spotwelded in right about there, and it formed a rust trap,
particularly if the indsheild seal leaked.
I believe the compression of the fuel/air mixture enhances it's
combustibility, and the slightly heated head/cylinder surfaces.. even if the
old stuff may be a little slow burning. Octane rating: maybe 10?


  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,001
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

OIC.. I didn't know about the internal reinforcement parts, but I assumed
that there was a leakage problem, either around the windshield or the
roof/gutter seam.

--
WB
..........


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:36:07 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

The truck body looks to be fairly solid from a distance, but that hole in
the windshield post seems like an odd place for a rust hole, if that's
what
it is (just to the left of the dash knob marked C.. choke? looks more like
a
cigarette lighter).


Not out of the ordinary to rust there - there is another peice of
steel spotwelded in right about there, and it formed a rust trap,
particularly if the indsheild seal leaked.


  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 271
Default "Bad Gas" -- WTF and gloat

In rec.crafts.metalworking on 2010-11-20 Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:11:40 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:
*Snip*.
This thing's been sitting there for just about ever, while I got more
interested in building planes than wrenching on trucks.

*Snip*

So, anyway, I got it pulled out of the shop, tickled my fear of heights
by replacing bulbs in my lights (14 feet off the ground -- god, I hate
doing that),

*Snip*

I foresee a slight issue potentially forming here...

H.


The planes that Tim mentioned in OP are model planes,
not ones he will be riding around in ...


--
jiw
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I am looking for a local source for "Rockwool" / "Mineral Wool" /"Safe & Sound" / "AFB" jtpr Home Repair 3 June 10th 10 07:27 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"