Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default hot water heat leak

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl

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On 11/19/2010 5:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl

I've repaired pinhole leaks with a piece of inner tube and a band clamp
but that's not going to work in your situation. If it were me I'd bite
the bullet and call a plumber. You'll be out a hundred bucks, it'll make
him happy, and you can get on with your life without the stress.
Mouse
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Default hot water heat leak

Karl Townsend wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl

Sucks to be you. Unless there is evidence of mechanical damage, that
means the pipe is rotted from the inside and will probably start leaking
somewhere else pretty soon and maybe even burst. Also it is probably
about as fragile as eggshells so getting a good proper repair even if
you take the floor up is problematic.

In similar circumstances, I've just drained down, cleaned the pipe
gently with wire wool and soft soldered a piece of copper foil over the
hole. There are also various epoxy pipe bandage products, but for those
you will need access right round the pipe.

With luck, it *MAY* get you through the winter so you can do some major
pipe replacement work in the spring, but I'd make sure all valuables
that are vulnerable to water damage are moved out of your ground floor,
or stored well off the floor and wrapped in heavy plastic.

--
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Default hot water heat leak

Karl Townsend wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl

Might wanna be more descriptive. You didn't say joint, so one may
conclude that it's in a section of pipe.
You didn't mention damage, so one might think nobody
nicked, poked, drilled into it.
So, why is it leaking? If it's corrosion, there may be a
weak spot much bigger than the CURRENT leak.

Weigh the cost of water damage against the hassle of fixing it
right.
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Default hot water heat leak


Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


Cutting out a section of pipe and replacing it *is* the easy way to do
it. Once you have some experience soldering plumbing you'll realize this
and just cut and replace the offending section rather that spending 3X
the time trying to band-aid it.

You need to at least partially drain the loop so there is no water in
the area you are working on. Get one of the little fiberglass heat
shield cloth squares to use to back the work area and avoid torching the
wall, floor, etc. Have a damp rag available to wipe excess solder from
hot joints for neatness. A pair of channel-lock type pliers is essential
if you try to un-solder any existing connections.

They make couplers that do not have the center dimples / grove and allow
you to slide them fully onto a piece of pipe before aligning with
another pipe and sliding over the joint. Make a mark on the pipe so you
will know when the coupler is centered. A good lead-free paste flux and
some abrasive cloth are essential in getting a good joint, especially on
existing pipe. Use lead-free solder as well, likely all you'll find
these days anyway.

Don't skimp on pipe cutters, get something decent like Rigid and in both
full-size and the mini ones which you can use in close quarters. One of
the mini-hacksaw handles is also helpful for areas too tight for even
the mini tubing cutters. Don't bother trying to use a propane torch,
only use MAPP or MAPP equivalent and use a good trigger-start torch like
a Bernz-o-Matic TS4000. Don't be tempted to use oxy-acetylene, it's too
hot for soldering (good for brazing), plumbers sometimes use
air-acetylene, but not O/A generally.

Use only type L pipe, not the thinner type M. If you have a pinhole leak
and it's not from mechanical rubbing damage, you may well have a lot
more places ready to go unless you are lucky and it's a manufacturing
defect in one spot. BTW, it's a "hydronic" heating system.


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Default hot water heat leak

I've repaired pinhole leaks with a piece of inner tube and a band clamp
but that's not going to work in your situation. If it were me I'd bite the
bullet and call a plumber. You'll be out a hundred bucks, it'll make him
happy, and you can get on with your life without the stress.
Mouse



$100 plumber job? Where the heck do you live? Here, $100 is what we pay
for them to show up and ask questions.

I'd estimate total costs for that fix here to be $300-450.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/AutoDrill-Facebook

V8013-R



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Default hot water heat leak

In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


Ain't no easy fix if the thing is leaking where it goes through the
floor, IMHO. Be sure to protect the new pipe from abrasion in the
floor-hole. Given that you'd need to pull the pipe to get anything on
it, no point in not just replacing it - paint won't do, and if you try
to slop enough epoxy on there to hope it will stick, it won't - the area
around the hole will be dirty and the epoxy will stick everywhere else,
making the eventual removal of the pipe more difficult when it still
leaks. For an accessible leak you can clean and shut off the water for,
epoxy can work.

Radiator stop-leak (the automotive product) might just work, and might
just cause other side effects you'd rather not have in your heating
system. There may be a version intended for heating systems with less
side effects, but it's a kludge in any case, not a repair.

If accessible, a tight wrap of waterproof electrical tape can hold up
far longer than you might expect (on a well-cleaned pipe), but it's not
accessible...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
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Default hot water heat leak

On Nov 19, 2:12*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it.


So, cut the pipe below, lift out the radiator and the bad section,
work on it at sawhorse height, then lower the new work into the
hole and make the final join below. Hoisting the radiator is the
only hard part. If quarters underneath are cramped, it might pay to
use those push-on coupler gizmos (sharkbite, I think).

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On Nov 19, 5:12*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


What is the floor material? The reason I ask is that you may not have
the situation others have referred to where the pipe is rotting from
the inside. I had a pipe in my house develop pinholes where it passed
through a tile/cement wall. The pipe was eaten from the outside.

can JB Weld do this fix? I've never tried it.
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Default hot water heat leak

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 06:18:23 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


Cutting out a section of pipe and replacing it *is* the easy way to do
it. Once you have some experience soldering plumbing you'll realize this
and just cut and replace the offending section rather that spending 3X
the time trying to band-aid it.

You need to at least partially drain the loop so there is no water in
the area you are working on. Get one of the little fiberglass heat
shield cloth squares to use to back the work area and avoid torching the
wall, floor, etc. Have a damp rag available to wipe excess solder from
hot joints for neatness. A pair of channel-lock type pliers is essential
if you try to un-solder any existing connections.

They make couplers that do not have the center dimples / grove and allow
you to slide them fully onto a piece of pipe before aligning with
another pipe and sliding over the joint. Make a mark on the pipe so you
will know when the coupler is centered. A good lead-free paste flux and
some abrasive cloth are essential in getting a good joint, especially on
existing pipe. Use lead-free solder as well, likely all you'll find
these days anyway.


Lead free is not required on non-potable water - and lead solder is a
LOT easier to work with in this application.

Don't skimp on pipe cutters, get something decent like Rigid and in both
full-size and the mini ones which you can use in close quarters. One of
the mini-hacksaw handles is also helpful for areas too tight for even
the mini tubing cutters. Don't bother trying to use a propane torch,
only use MAPP or MAPP equivalent and use a good trigger-start torch like
a Bernz-o-Matic TS4000. Don't be tempted to use oxy-acetylene, it's too
hot for soldering (good for brazing), plumbers sometimes use
air-acetylene, but not O/A generally.

Use only type L pipe, not the thinner type M. If you have a pinhole leak
and it's not from mechanical rubbing damage, you may well have a lot
more places ready to go unless you are lucky and it's a manufacturing
defect in one spot. BTW, it's a "hydronic" heating system.




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On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:37:37 -0500, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


Ain't no easy fix if the thing is leaking where it goes through the
floor, IMHO. Be sure to protect the new pipe from abrasion in the
floor-hole. Given that you'd need to pull the pipe to get anything on
it, no point in not just replacing it - paint won't do, and if you try
to slop enough epoxy on there to hope it will stick, it won't - the area
around the hole will be dirty and the epoxy will stick everywhere else,
making the eventual removal of the pipe more difficult when it still
leaks. For an accessible leak you can clean and shut off the water for,
epoxy can work.

Radiator stop-leak (the automotive product) might just work, and might
just cause other side effects you'd rather not have in your heating
system. There may be a version intended for heating systems with less
side effects, but it's a kludge in any case, not a repair.


"boiler sealer" used to be a common product used for that kind of
repair. "irontitie" was a common brand and is still available -. Just
checked my bottle - it says "Irontite products of Canada Ltd, 295
Norfinch Drive, Downsview Ontario."

If accessible, a tight wrap of waterproof electrical tape can hold up
far longer than you might expect (on a well-cleaned pipe), but it's not
accessible...


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On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:00:23 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Nov 19, 5:12*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


What is the floor material? The reason I ask is that you may not have
the situation others have referred to where the pipe is rotting from
the inside. I had a pipe in my house develop pinholes where it passed
through a tile/cement wall. The pipe was eaten from the outside.

can JB Weld do this fix? I've never tried it.


I found a pipe repair epoxy tape in McMaster Carr. I'll try that,
when, not if, it fails I'll call in a pro. This is the worst possible
spot. There's fifty feet of baseboard radiator all around the north
end of the house. The bad spot is right at floor level going up to
where the radiator starts. I can see no way to move the radiator
without tearing out a bunch of sheet rock walls.
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On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:49:57 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:37:37 -0500, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


Ain't no easy fix if the thing is leaking where it goes through the
floor, IMHO. Be sure to protect the new pipe from abrasion in the
floor-hole. Given that you'd need to pull the pipe to get anything on
it, no point in not just replacing it - paint won't do, and if you try
to slop enough epoxy on there to hope it will stick, it won't - the area
around the hole will be dirty and the epoxy will stick everywhere else,
making the eventual removal of the pipe more difficult when it still
leaks. For an accessible leak you can clean and shut off the water for,
epoxy can work.

Radiator stop-leak (the automotive product) might just work, and might
just cause other side effects you'd rather not have in your heating
system. There may be a version intended for heating systems with less
side effects, but it's a kludge in any case, not a repair.


"boiler sealer" used to be a common product used for that kind of
repair. "irontitie" was a common brand and is still available -. Just
checked my bottle - it says "Irontite products of Canada Ltd, 295
Norfinch Drive, Downsview Ontario."


my excitement only lasted a second. Here's what google found:
(I have baseboard raditors and a water lubricated pump)

A leak or crack in your boiler can be fixed with a simple sealer
solution. These boiler seals are designed to be used in steam or hot
water boilers. It creates a chemical seal that is tough, expands with
heat and resists pressure. Very similar to products you can purchase
for your car, the seal works by mixing with the water in the boiler
and creates a gummy seal in any cracks or small holes. The liquid
seals are not to be used in systems with water lubricated pumps, or
base board radiators. It should also not be used on excessive leaks,
as it won’t work on very large cracks or holes.



Read mo
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how...#ixzz15m1kuDEo
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Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?



I have drained the water, tinned the outside of the leaking pipe
around the hole. Then I split a scrap of the same size pipe. Tin the
inside of that piece of copper, then sweat them together with a large
soldering iron. If I need room to work safely I will drill a couple
holes to remove a little of the floor or wall, then fill the gap with
foam insulation.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!


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"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:00:23 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Nov 19, 5:12 am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


What is the floor material? The reason I ask is that you may not have
the situation others have referred to where the pipe is rotting from
the inside. I had a pipe in my house develop pinholes where it passed
through a tile/cement wall. The pipe was eaten from the outside.

can JB Weld do this fix? I've never tried it.


I found a pipe repair epoxy tape in McMaster Carr. I'll try that,
when, not if, it fails I'll call in a pro. This is the worst possible
spot. There's fifty feet of baseboard radiator all around the north
end of the house. The bad spot is right at floor level going up to
where the radiator starts. I can see no way to move the radiator
without tearing out a bunch of sheet rock walls.


Shut off the water and drain as much as you can beforehand, hoping to put it
on a dry surface with no pressure behind it. If you can get to it, sand the
outside of the tubing. Let it stand for 12 hours before pressurizing.



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On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:25:31 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:49:57 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:37:37 -0500, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl

Ain't no easy fix if the thing is leaking where it goes through the
floor, IMHO. Be sure to protect the new pipe from abrasion in the
floor-hole. Given that you'd need to pull the pipe to get anything on
it, no point in not just replacing it - paint won't do, and if you try
to slop enough epoxy on there to hope it will stick, it won't - the area
around the hole will be dirty and the epoxy will stick everywhere else,
making the eventual removal of the pipe more difficult when it still
leaks. For an accessible leak you can clean and shut off the water for,
epoxy can work.

Radiator stop-leak (the automotive product) might just work, and might
just cause other side effects you'd rather not have in your heating
system. There may be a version intended for heating systems with less
side effects, but it's a kludge in any case, not a repair.


"boiler sealer" used to be a common product used for that kind of
repair. "irontitie" was a common brand and is still available -. Just
checked my bottle - it says "Irontite products of Canada Ltd, 295
Norfinch Drive, Downsview Ontario."


my excitement only lasted a second. Here's what google found:
(I have baseboard raditors and a water lubricated pump)

A leak or crack in your boiler can be fixed with a simple sealer
solution. These boiler seals are designed to be used in steam or hot
water boilers. It creates a chemical seal that is tough, expands with
heat and resists pressure. Very similar to products you can purchase
for your car, the seal works by mixing with the water in the boiler
and creates a gummy seal in any cracks or small holes. The liquid
seals are not to be used in systems with water lubricated pumps, or
base board radiators. It should also not be used on excessive leaks,
as it wont work on very large cracks or holes.



Read mo
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how...#ixzz15m1kuDEo



Irontite can be used in pump circulated systems as it is also sold for
use in automotive engines (and radiators) It also searves as a water
pump lubricant according to the label on the bottle.

Oh - you want the Irontite AllWeather seal, NOT the Ceramic.

My bottle is old. It's now a Kwik-Way product.
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Cut it out and replace the bad section with pex pipe and sharkbite
fittings,.

Scott
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On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 09:46:15 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

Lead free is not required on non-potable water - and lead solder is a
LOT easier to work with in this application.


You won't find lead solder at the big box stores, and in my experience
the lead-free solder works equally well on potable water copper pipes or
hydronic heating copper pipes.

Or equally poorly.


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On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 18:10:33 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 09:46:15 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

Lead free is not required on non-potable water - and lead solder is a
LOT easier to work with in this application.

You won't find lead solder at the big box stores, and in my experience
the lead-free solder works equally well on potable water copper pipes or
hydronic heating copper pipes.

Or equally poorly.


I guess if you're still trying to use Propane or are just bad at
soldering plumbing. I use MAPP and have never had any problem with the
lead-free solder or lead-free flux paste, and I've replumbed entire
houses.

I use map or air/acet torches and still prefer leaded solder. The
newer lead-free stuff IS better than the earlier stuff. A lot likely
has to do with the newer flux.

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The advice about replacement of the section of tubing is the easy repair, is
correct.

Soldering copper tube and fittings isn't difficult to learn. Buy at least a
couple of handfuls of fittings and a section of tubing and practice on
fittings facing in all directions.

Use all the proper standard practices.. cut the tubing with a tubing cutter,
deburr the end ID burr, shine the tubing end and the inside of the fitting
(should actually produce bands of fine scratches for the capillary action),
emory cloth is commonly used for the tubing ends and a properly-sized round
wire brush is the easiest method for the fitting openings. Special round
wire brushes are sold for shining tubing ends, too (these brushes work like
battery post cleaners).
Keep the shined ends clean.
Apply a thin flux coating to both parts immediately after shining the solder
areas and fit the two parts together.

The proper temperature isn't highly critical, and the end of the solder
touching the fitting near the connection will be the best indicator of the
proper temperature. The flux will sizzle as the temperature gets close to
the solder's melting point.
The flame is applied to the back side to give the best visibility while
watching the joint draw in/wick-in the molten solder.
Feed in the solder, remove the flame and carefully swipe the joint with a
clean, damp cotton cloth/shop rag. Extinguish the fire if you sat the lit
torch where you shouldn't have.

Safety.. I always try to have a reliable trigger-spray bottle full of water
within reach, and a fire extinguisher only a couple of steps away.
Specially-treated mats are available for using as a shield over wood and
other flammable materials near connections to be soldered. I find thin
aluminum roofing flashing to be very versatile for using as heat shields.

After doing a couple of practice joints, take 'em over to the bandsaw or
grab a hacksaw, and cut the joints and peel them open to see if full
coverage is attained on the two mating surfaces.
Practicing on joints that are oriented in different directions will be
effective learning aids.

Valves and some other fittings can be a bit trickier, but learn the
essential basic steps first before proceeding to the other items.
The most used fittings will probably be els and couplers. Master these, then
practice on other items. Sections of tubing can be sweated to some new
valves for practice now, but for future use.. compressed air and soapy water
can be used to check for leaks. Since there's no water pressure in the
practice piece (which would make a mess if it failed), some light hand
pressure force can be applied to the tubing ends to test for strength of the
joints, followed by air pressure testing. When the valves are needed, just
use couplers to fit the ends in place.
Valves are generally soldered in the open position. The trigger-spray water
bottle can be used to cool valves and larger components quickly.

All systems should have valves at each point of use, at the minimum. Trying
to get a line emptied when it's connected to 50 feet of line above is a
nuisance, but if you can shut a nearby valve, the section of line drains
right now.
Some valves have a port with a small knurled cap to drain lines to aid in
draining, and bleeding air from lines.
Placing some extra valves at random locations in a system can be a great
convenience in the future when repairs (leaks?) or expansions are needed.

--
WB
..........


"Pete C." wrote in message
er.com...

Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


Cutting out a section of pipe and replacing it *is* the easy way to do
it. Once you have some experience soldering plumbing you'll realize this
and just cut and replace the offending section rather that spending 3X
the time trying to band-aid it.

You need to at least partially drain the loop so there is no water in
the area you are working on. Get one of the little fiberglass heat
shield cloth squares to use to back the work area and avoid torching the
wall, floor, etc. Have a damp rag available to wipe excess solder from
hot joints for neatness. A pair of channel-lock type pliers is essential
if you try to un-solder any existing connections.

They make couplers that do not have the center dimples / grove and allow
you to slide them fully onto a piece of pipe before aligning with
another pipe and sliding over the joint. Make a mark on the pipe so you
will know when the coupler is centered. A good lead-free paste flux and
some abrasive cloth are essential in getting a good joint, especially on
existing pipe. Use lead-free solder as well, likely all you'll find
these days anyway.

Don't skimp on pipe cutters, get something decent like Rigid and in both
full-size and the mini ones which you can use in close quarters. One of
the mini-hacksaw handles is also helpful for areas too tight for even
the mini tubing cutters. Don't bother trying to use a propane torch,
only use MAPP or MAPP equivalent and use a good trigger-start torch like
a Bernz-o-Matic TS4000. Don't be tempted to use oxy-acetylene, it's too
hot for soldering (good for brazing), plumbers sometimes use
air-acetylene, but not O/A generally.

Use only type L pipe, not the thinner type M. If you have a pinhole leak
and it's not from mechanical rubbing damage, you may well have a lot
more places ready to go unless you are lucky and it's a manufacturing
defect in one spot. BTW, it's a "hydronic" heating system.




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Karl Townsend wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:00:23 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Nov 19, 5:12 am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl


What is the floor material? The reason I ask is that you may not have
the situation others have referred to where the pipe is rotting from
the inside. I had a pipe in my house develop pinholes where it passed
through a tile/cement wall. The pipe was eaten from the outside.

can JB Weld do this fix? I've never tried it.


I found a pipe repair epoxy tape in McMaster Carr. I'll try that,
when, not if, it fails I'll call in a pro. This is the worst possible
spot. There's fifty feet of baseboard radiator all around the north
end of the house. The bad spot is right at floor level going up to
where the radiator starts. I can see no way to move the radiator
without tearing out a bunch of sheet rock walls.


I can't imagine what type of baseboard you have that would require
tearing up walls to move. The normal copper tube with pressed on
aluminum fin baseboard radiators lift right out of the hanger brackets
that are attached to the back plate which is attached to the wall. You
simply need to cut off the pipe an inch above the elbow *below* the
floor and then you can lift the end of the baseboard up to easily cut or
desolder the bad section from the end of the radiator, solder on new
pipe there, lower it through the floor, cut to correct length and solder
it back together below the floor with a coupling. It's really easy.
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The realistic simplicity of the job also occurred to me, but as I've
mentioned before, particularly about Karl and a few others that have been
around in RCM for a while.. they always try to make the job seem harder than
it could possibly be.

Drama.

I'll be glad to eat my words and sincerely apologize, when/if I saw pictures
of an installation that show that it requires "tearing out a bunch of sheet
rock walls" to fix a single leak.

--
WB
..........


"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:00:23 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Nov 19, 5:12 am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
I've got a pin hole leak in a copper pipe on my hot water heat sytem.

Murphy is my partner. So, of course, the leak is right where the pipe
goes through the floor and you can't get at it. A proper repair is
going to mean removing the radiator above, cutting out a whole section
of pipe and replacing.

To avoid this job, does anyone suggest some sort of goo to just apply
to the surface of the pipe? Other easy fix?

Karl

What is the floor material? The reason I ask is that you may not have
the situation others have referred to where the pipe is rotting from
the inside. I had a pipe in my house develop pinholes where it passed
through a tile/cement wall. The pipe was eaten from the outside.

can JB Weld do this fix? I've never tried it.


I found a pipe repair epoxy tape in McMaster Carr. I'll try that,
when, not if, it fails I'll call in a pro. This is the worst possible
spot. There's fifty feet of baseboard radiator all around the north
end of the house. The bad spot is right at floor level going up to
where the radiator starts. I can see no way to move the radiator
without tearing out a bunch of sheet rock walls.


I can't imagine what type of baseboard you have that would require
tearing up walls to move. The normal copper tube with pressed on
aluminum fin baseboard radiators lift right out of the hanger brackets
that are attached to the back plate which is attached to the wall. You
simply need to cut off the pipe an inch above the elbow *below* the
floor and then you can lift the end of the baseboard up to easily cut or
desolder the bad section from the end of the radiator, solder on new
pipe there, lower it through the floor, cut to correct length and solder
it back together below the floor with a coupling. It's really easy.


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Karl Townsend wrote in
:
I didn't think you could still get leaded solder. Where do you buy it?
Preferably online so I can order some to have on hand



McMaster...
7667A12


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On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 01:54:55 GMT, Charles U Farley
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote in
:
I didn't think you could still get leaded solder. Where do you buy it?
Preferably online so I can order some to have on hand



McMaster...
7667A12


I shoulda known. McMaster has everything.

Thanks
karl

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On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:31:17 -0600, "Pete C." wrote:



It's better to learn to use the solder that you will be able to get the
next time you need it, and particularly so you don't end up using the
lead solder the next time you have a potable water plumbing fix to do.
The Lead free solder works fine, I've used it numerous times for more
than 20 years without any problems.



The water main to my house is lead, what difference would lead-free solder
make :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM
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Mark Rand wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:31:17 -0600, "Pete C." wrote:


It's better to learn to use the solder that you will be able to get the
next time you need it, and particularly so you don't end up using the
lead solder the next time you have a potable water plumbing fix to do.
The Lead free solder works fine, I've used it numerous times for more
than 20 years without any problems.


The water main to my house is lead, what difference would lead-free solder
make :-)

Mark Rand
RTFM


Not much. So that's why the folks I have to deal with in the UK are a
bit "off"... I hope you use a good filter in your house...
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