Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan dan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Road grader question.

Anyone here know anything about running a road grader?
I was looking at a tractor forum where someone had made a pull behind
grader from an old snow plow blade.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...nd-grader.html

And it got me thinking of how graders do their thing.
The key point is the blade is mounted between the front and rear
axles. That allows the blade to lift/dip half or less as much as the
axles as it rolls over high and low spots. This allows them to make a
flat surface quickly.

But then I started to think about crowning a dirt road. The blade is
lowered to dig in a little deeper on the ditch side, and angled to
move the dirt to the middle of the road. But then the rear wheels go
over the newly crowned part the whole grader leans over. This makes
the blade lean over too, cutting even more of a crown. Keep going
like this and you would roll the grader on it's side, it would seem.

Does the operator have to re-adjust the level of the blade after
starting the cut, making the blade parallel to the rear axles?
Is there some kind of automatic level thingy to keep the blade at the
same angle, or is that up to the operator?

I might like to copy the one I found on the tractor forum, but I would
like to add hydraulics to:
raise and lower the blade,
tilt the blade,
and maybe angle the blade.

I would probably use a 12v power pack with electric solenoid valves.
And then I got an idea. If I mounded some kind of pendulum on the
blade itself that would trip switches to activate the valves, it could
be made to maintain a preset angle, regardless of the angle of the
frame. I would have to add some kind of dampening of course, and the
precision wouldn't be too great.

What do you all think? I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,536
Default Road grader question.

dan wrote:

Does the operator have to re-adjust the level of the blade after
starting the cut, making the blade parallel to the rear axles?
Is there some kind of automatic level thingy to keep the blade at the
same angle, or is that up to the operator?



I've never run a road grader, but bulldozers do indeed have a small
pendulum that the operator can watch to level the surface.


--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site:
www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,507
Default Road grader question.

dan wrote:

What do you all think? I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.

You're going to _build_ a road grader? =:-O
I'd suggest going to someplace that has them or uses them, and ask some
questions and look at one. For some reason, I got a mental picture of one
where the front wheel strut has a sort of a "roll" pivot, so that the front
wheels could be on one slope, and the back wheels would be at the other.

But what do I know? ;-)

Let us know how it comes out, OK?

Cheers!
Rich

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,286
Default Road grader question.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:19:56 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

dan wrote:

Does the operator have to re-adjust the level of the blade after
starting the cut, making the blade parallel to the rear axles?
Is there some kind of automatic level thingy to keep the blade at the
same angle, or is that up to the operator?



I've never run a road grader, but bulldozers do indeed have a small
pendulum that the operator can watch to level the surface.



I've been a township supervisor coming up on 20 years now. The crown
of a gravel road is critical. Too much and people won't drive on their
side of the road. Too little, water puddles or runs straight down the
road and not to the ditch.

All Graders have a crown gauge of some sort. Old ones were just a
pendulum attached to the blade. New ones have an electronic readout.
I've not seen anything automatic, the operator has to push the
cylinder. An auto unit would sure be nice, as one operator can't seem
to do the crown correctly.

karl

  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan dan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Road grader question.

Rich Grise wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:31:47 -0800:

What do you all think? I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.

You're going to _build_ a road grader? =:-O


Maybe. Someday. We'll see. But not a motor grader, a tow behind
style. Like they used to pull with horses, and then tractors.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,392
Default Road grader question.

dan writes:

Anyone here know anything about running a road grader?


Yes, of course. No different than scraping a machine tool. Just a little
bigger scale and little less precision, right? How do you generate
flatness from chaos?

http://www.google.com/search?q=autom...ation+of+gages
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 533
Default Road grader question.

I think that there are machines (possibly not road graders, though such
function would be useful) that work from either laser referencing or
differential GPS to put the blade under computer control, and ignore the
whole question of where the wheels are at or how long the wheelbase is,
just moving dirt to where it should be. Probably only in the home-build
arena of people that could afford to buy one outright but choose not to.

My impression is that running a typical grader is a very hands-on
operation. What you propose to build is somewhat less so (road drag
might be one name for it - more for road maintenance than original
construction) and there are several very simple variants (which are
limited in what they can do, but also simple to build and use so you
might use them before things get too bad), such as chain link fence or
bedsprings pulled along, or a triangle of 2x lumber with 20d spikes
driven into it (and possibly some weights added, possibly more on one
side than the other - also effects differ depending on orientation of
the triangle to the road as you pull it), or a split log drag (good
stuff can be found in the on-line out-of copyright books/magazines on
that old thing - which is still a good thing for dirt roads. This
wikipedia article has the basic goods on it and links to a patent with
drawings of a more advanced version (more bars and scrapers)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_road_drag

The pre-motor graders (ie, horse-drawn ones) would be a good place to
research what worked in the past and start adapting from if you're
looking for more of a grader - though those did have an active operator
(or two) standing on them moving the (control) wheels.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,138
Default Road grader question.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:56:27 GMT, (dan) wrote:

Anyone here know anything about running a road grader?
I was looking at a tractor forum where someone had made a pull behind
grader from an old snow plow blade.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...nd-grader.html

And it got me thinking of how graders do their thing.
The key point is the blade is mounted between the front and rear
axles. That allows the blade to lift/dip half or less as much as the
axles as it rolls over high and low spots. This allows them to make a
flat surface quickly.

But then I started to think about crowning a dirt road. The blade is
lowered to dig in a little deeper on the ditch side, and angled to
move the dirt to the middle of the road. But then the rear wheels go
over the newly crowned part the whole grader leans over. This makes
the blade lean over too, cutting even more of a crown. Keep going
like this and you would roll the grader on it's side, it would seem.

Does the operator have to re-adjust the level of the blade after
starting the cut, making the blade parallel to the rear axles?
Is there some kind of automatic level thingy to keep the blade at the
same angle, or is that up to the operator?

I might like to copy the one I found on the tractor forum, but I would
like to add hydraulics to:
raise and lower the blade,
tilt the blade,
and maybe angle the blade.

I would probably use a 12v power pack with electric solenoid valves.
And then I got an idea. If I mounded some kind of pendulum on the
blade itself that would trip switches to activate the valves, it could
be made to maintain a preset angle, regardless of the angle of the
frame. I would have to add some kind of dampening of course, and the
precision wouldn't be too great.

What do you all think? I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.


Try to get some time driving a grader at a school or dealer, or at
least talk to a grader operator. Don't forget Army Reserve,
construction engineer battalions have graders. So do Seabees.

Operating a grader is among the most skilled activities for heavy
equipment operators. There are a bazillion variables. The other
most-skilled job is operating a big crane. Those guys are amazing.
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,224
Default Road grader question.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:56:27 GMT, (dan) wrote:

Anyone here know anything about running a road grader?
I was looking at a tractor forum where someone had made a pull behind
grader from an old snow plow blade.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...nd-grader.html

And it got me thinking of how graders do their thing.
The key point is the blade is mounted between the front and rear
axles. That allows the blade to lift/dip half or less as much as the
axles as it rolls over high and low spots. This allows them to make a
flat surface quickly.

But then I started to think about crowning a dirt road. The blade is
lowered to dig in a little deeper on the ditch side, and angled to
move the dirt to the middle of the road. But then the rear wheels go
over the newly crowned part the whole grader leans over. This makes
the blade lean over too, cutting even more of a crown. Keep going
like this and you would roll the grader on it's side, it would seem.

Does the operator have to re-adjust the level of the blade after
starting the cut, making the blade parallel to the rear axles?
Is there some kind of automatic level thingy to keep the blade at the
same angle, or is that up to the operator?

I might like to copy the one I found on the tractor forum, but I would
like to add hydraulics to:
raise and lower the blade,
tilt the blade,
and maybe angle the blade.

I would probably use a 12v power pack with electric solenoid valves.
And then I got an idea. If I mounded some kind of pendulum on the
blade itself that would trip switches to activate the valves, it could
be made to maintain a preset angle, regardless of the angle of the
frame. I would have to add some kind of dampening of course, and the
precision wouldn't be too great.

What do you all think? I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.

I can barely remember my uncle being the grader operator and having a
large steel wheel at each side to raise or lower the blade which was
mounted on a turntable to adjust the angle to the direction of travel.
This turntable was mounted to trailing arms from the front of the
machine, allowing it to be raised or lowered. The blade could be
tilted and slid out to one side or other. The whole apparatus was
towed behind a truck or tractor.
Latter, these were replaced with self propelled, hydraulically
operated machines we see today.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,924
Default Road grader question.


Gerald Miller wrote:

I can barely remember my uncle being the grader operator and having a
large steel wheel at each side to raise or lower the blade which was
mounted on a turntable to adjust the angle to the direction of travel.
This turntable was mounted to trailing arms from the front of the
machine, allowing it to be raised or lowered. The blade could be
tilted and slid out to one side or other. The whole apparatus was
towed behind a truck or tractor.
Latter, these were replaced with self propelled, hydraulically
operated machines we see today.



Sure, after he broke the first one. ;-)


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,286
Default Road grader question.


Operating a grader is among the most skilled activities for heavy
equipment operators. There are a bazillion variables. The other
most-skilled job is operating a big crane. Those guys are amazing.


If you're a gov'ment employee, you don't have to be skilled to run
one. The number one call to me about our local roads is poor grading.
On the flip side, some of our roads are graded by the best operator I
know. The difference is truly amazing. Especially after a few years
where the operator has made a hundred passes.

Karl

  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 509
Default Road grader question.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 06:25:17 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:


Operating a grader is among the most skilled activities for heavy
equipment operators. There are a bazillion variables. The other
most-skilled job is operating a big crane. Those guys are amazing.


If you're a gov'ment employee, you don't have to be skilled to run
one. The number one call to me about our local roads is poor grading.
On the flip side, some of our roads are graded by the best operator I
know. The difference is truly amazing. Especially after a few years
where the operator has made a hundred passes.

Karl


We had one of the tow behind a tractor types when I was a kid, used it
for maintaining field roads. I wasn't that good at it I expect, but
it was fun for a change of pace. We kicked the blade around on its
ring, then dropped in a pin. The two big steel wheels were used to
control height and tilt.

I haven't seen a grader for routine county road maintenance in quite a
while. The local roads went from oyster shell to blacktop a long time
ago. With 50+ inches of rain per year, it's probably cost effective
to top vs. maintain, plus oyster dredging for oyster fill was stopped
decades ago.

Pete Keillor
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default Road grader question.

"dan" wrote in message
...
Anyone here know anything about running a road grader?
I was looking at a tractor forum where someone had made a pull behind
grader from an old snow plow blade.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...nd-grader.html

And it got me thinking of how graders do their thing.
The key point is the blade is mounted between the front and rear
axles. That allows the blade to lift/dip half or less as much as the
axles as it rolls over high and low spots. This allows them to make a
flat surface quickly.

But then I started to think about crowning a dirt road.


A crown makes for a pretty road, but it will also rut and wash away faster.
I guess you get the choice between standing water when it rains or ruts that
will break an axle when it comes to dirt road building. I suspect there may
be some real planning involved. For occasional touch up a long drag frame
seems to be the prefer method by some folks.

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 533
Default Road grader question.

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

A crown makes for a pretty road, but it will also rut and wash away faster.
I guess you get the choice between standing water when it rains or ruts that
will break an axle when it comes to dirt road building.


Nonsense. A crown, correctly done, causes the water to run off the road
to the sides, thus NOT allowing any significant amount of water to run
down the road and wash material away - the most water any one section of
road sees is what's accumulated over 8-16 feet (if you have a dirt road
over 32 feet wide, whatever half the width is) as it runs from the
center to the edge. It also (with correct ditches) keeps the roadbed dry
and solid, resisting ruts (or as dry as it can - spring thaw is fairly
hopeless when the road is thawed but the ground under it is frozen.)
Lack of crown permits water to run down the road, carrying material with
it and washing it away, and also allows the roadbed to get wet, and
soft, thus making ruts when wheels run over it.

Crowned or not, any road that is not dragged regularly will start to
develop wheel ruts with time simply from material being moved aside if
wheels run in a regular path down it, and as soon as the ruts exceed the
amount of crown (if any) water will start to run down the road and wash
it out.

I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas, but it's not from a few
hundred years collective experience with making dirt roads. Or 30 odd
with building and maintaining dirt driveways and roads (with a civil
engineer and former seebee to help transfer those few hundred years
experience...)

One of the biggest labor-saving things I can do (between dragging, or
grading, which is a rare event since I don't own grader) is to go out
in the rain with a shovel or hoe and look for water running down the
road/driveway, and cut paths out to the ditch for it every 15-20 feet so
that it cannot get enough water to cut significantly into the road. If
the road is recently crowned correctly, there won't be any water running
down it, but as material moves outwards under traffic, it eventually
defeats the crown and will lead to large washouts if left to get worse.
Repairing those is a lot more work than preventing them.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default Road grader question.

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

A crown makes for a pretty road, but it will also rut and wash away
faster.
I guess you get the choice between standing water when it rains or ruts
that
will break an axle when it comes to dirt road building.


I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas, but it's not from a few
hundred years collective experience with making dirt roads. Or 30 odd
with building and maintaining dirt driveways and roads (with a civil
engineer and former seebee to help transfer those few hundred years
experience...)


From pure observation of roads maintained or not maintained by various local
public works and county maintenance departments. The roads that are flat
seem to hold up better (especially when not maintained at all) than the ones
that are crowned. I grew up in a rural area with dirt roads, farm roads,
and desert trails as our primary highways. Now if you plan to drag every
month, grade every other month, and drive down the road doing patch work
every time it rains you might get better service out of your crowned roads,
but the simple fact is the roads I grew up with were lucky to even see a
grader go by once a year. Any road properly maintained on a regular
schedule will hold up better. I got the benefit of seeing roads that were
often not maintained at all. So I suppose I might have to agree with you if
you maintain it constantly. If you don't the crowned road will develop ruts
that will break axles. Maybe the dirt is inferior to the dirt where you
grew up, but I happen to like Arizona dirt in general.




  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 120
Default Road grader question.

I think that there are machines (possibly not road graders, though such
function would be useful) that work from either laser referencing or
differential GPS to put the blade under computer control, and ignore the
whole question of where the wheels are at or how long the wheelbase is,
just moving dirt to where it should be.


If you see any road construction near you these days, that's what that
globe on top of the 10' pipe attached to the dozer/grader/whatever
blade is for. I suspect they also use one when setting grade stakes,
etc. for use with excavators and such, too. I've noticed crews in my
area are certainly getting better road grades (more consistent slopes
and better drainage) with far less work-and-rework than even five
years ago.

But one of the weird side effects of all this technology is how much
of a piecework quilt things are starting to become, they used to have
to get everything to the same point (say the sub-grade) before they
went on to the next (say, the final grade before paving). Now you'll
get a 100' section graded and paved while they're still blasting and
digging and building retaining walls a few feet away, and it all lines
up perfectly with the next section already paved on the other side of
where they are still doing work. It's very interesting seeing
everything come together so well with as much change in the road base
they wouldn't even have thought possible in the same amount of time
not that long ago.

A lot of commercial farming is also done using a GPS, such as when
using a sprayer or broadcast spreader on a non-row crop where you want
to minimize gaps and overlaps (and thus over- or untreated spots)
without the reference points you get when dealing with produce grown
in rows.

--Glenn Lyford
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 943
Default Road grader question.

On 11/11/2010 10:14 PM, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:56:27 GMT, (dan) wrote:

Anyone here know anything about running a road grader?
I was looking at a tractor forum where someone had made a pull behind
grader from an old snow plow blade.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...nd-grader.html

And it got me thinking of how graders do their thing.
The key point is the blade is mounted between the front and rear
axles. That allows the blade to lift/dip half or less as much as the
axles as it rolls over high and low spots. This allows them to make a
flat surface quickly.

But then I started to think about crowning a dirt road. The blade is
lowered to dig in a little deeper on the ditch side, and angled to
move the dirt to the middle of the road. But then the rear wheels go
over the newly crowned part the whole grader leans over. This makes
the blade lean over too, cutting even more of a crown. Keep going
like this and you would roll the grader on it's side, it would seem.

Does the operator have to re-adjust the level of the blade after
starting the cut, making the blade parallel to the rear axles?
Is there some kind of automatic level thingy to keep the blade at the
same angle, or is that up to the operator?

I might like to copy the one I found on the tractor forum, but I would
like to add hydraulics to:
raise and lower the blade,
tilt the blade,
and maybe angle the blade.

I would probably use a 12v power pack with electric solenoid valves.
And then I got an idea. If I mounded some kind of pendulum on the
blade itself that would trip switches to activate the valves, it could
be made to maintain a preset angle, regardless of the angle of the
frame. I would have to add some kind of dampening of course, and the
precision wouldn't be too great.

What do you all think? I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.


Try to get some time driving a grader at a school or dealer, or at
least talk to a grader operator. Don't forget Army Reserve,
construction engineer battalions have graders. So do Seabees.

Operating a grader is among the most skilled activities for heavy
equipment operators. There are a bazillion variables. The other
most-skilled job is operating a big crane. Those guys are amazing.



from what I read in design magazines about a decade ago, a modern grader
will hold a few tenths of an inch across a field using both GPS and
other guidance. They are used to level rice fields in the CA central valley
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 756
Default Road grader question.

Bill Noble wrote:

from what I read in design magazines about a decade ago, a modern grader
will hold a few tenths of an inch across a field using both GPS and
other guidance. They are used to level rice fields in the CA central valley


Absolutely.

Looking at the rice fields just outside of Sacramento,
you can see acres of flooded land with little birds
standing on the ground and knee-high in the water.

Really amazing.
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,538
Default Road grader question.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:47:21 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

A crown makes for a pretty road, but it will also rut and wash away
faster.
I guess you get the choice between standing water when it rains or ruts
that
will break an axle when it comes to dirt road building.


I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas, but it's not from a few
hundred years collective experience with making dirt roads. Or 30 odd
with building and maintaining dirt driveways and roads (with a civil
engineer and former seebee to help transfer those few hundred years
experience...)


From pure observation of roads maintained or not maintained by various local
public works and county maintenance departments. The roads that are flat
seem to hold up better (especially when not maintained at all) than the ones
that are crowned. I grew up in a rural area with dirt roads, farm roads,
and desert trails as our primary highways. Now if you plan to drag every
month, grade every other month, and drive down the road doing patch work
every time it rains you might get better service out of your crowned roads,
but the simple fact is the roads I grew up with were lucky to even see a
grader go by once a year. Any road properly maintained on a regular
schedule will hold up better. I got the benefit of seeing roads that were
often not maintained at all. So I suppose I might have to agree with you if
you maintain it constantly. If you don't the crowned road will develop ruts
that will break axles. Maybe the dirt is inferior to the dirt where you
grew up, but I happen to like Arizona dirt in general.

Up untill a few years ago we had a LOT of gravel roads in the
Waterloo/Wellington/Huron areas, and VIRTUALLY ALL were crowned. Those
that were not, were a mess of washboard and potholes.
Those that were not maintained, either flat or crowned, became rough
twin-tracks in a short time, where low-slung cars would high-center
and belly-drag.
We still have a fair amount of gravel - but mostly lower than
"secondary" roads.
Have a fair bit of gravel shoulders too - which are maintained with
road graders and special shoulder maintainers (which are basically
smaller motor graders with 2 blades)
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan dan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Road grader question.

Ecnerwal wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri, 12 Nov 2010 00:38:06 -0500:

My impression is that running a typical grader is a very hands-on
operation. What you propose to build is somewhat less so (road drag
might be one name for it - more for road maintenance than original
construction) and there are several very simple variants (which are
limited in what they can do, but also simple to build and use so you
might use them before things get too bad), such as chain link fence or
bedsprings pulled along, or a triangle of 2x lumber with 20d spikes
driven into it (and possibly some weights added, possibly more on one
side than the other - also effects differ depending on orientation of
the triangle to the road as you pull it),or a split log drag (good
stuff can be found in the on-line out-of copyright books/magazines on
that old thing - which is still a good thing for dirt roads. This
wikipedia article has the basic goods on it and links to a patent with
drawings of a more advanced version (more bars and scrapers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_road_drag


I am currently using a version of the King road drag that I built from
some 5in channel iron. Works good for smaller holes, and provides
crown that wasn't there before. But there are some depressions that
are larger than the drag, so the drag just drops into them. A grader
like thing would be better able to move dirt along the road length to
fill them in, from dirt that was cut off the high spots.

The pre-motor graders (ie, horse-drawn ones) would be a good place to
research what worked in the past and start adapting from if you're
looking for more of a grader - though those did have an active operator
(or two) standing on them moving the (control) wheels.


That's what I've been doing, and the link I posted in the first post
shows what one of the things I've found and would like to improve
upon. There was another, very similar, but I couldn't find it again.
I've found lots of pictures of the old antique horse drawn ones and
other more recent styles. I don't think I can come up the turntable
for the blade, but I think I can adapt a small snowplow, and use the
angling pivot that has. It won't be as versatile as a real grader,
but that's not what I'm going for.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan dan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Road grader question.

Glenn Lyford wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:03:46 -0800 (PST):

A lot of commercial farming is also done using a GPS, such as when
using a sprayer or broadcast spreader on a non-row crop where you want
to minimize gaps and overlaps (and thus over- or untreated spots)
without the reference points you get when dealing with produce grown
in rows.


In addition, the combines keep a map of the yeld when harvesting, and
then you can use that map to adjust your fertilizer. Saves from over
or under fertilizing any one area.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan dan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Road grader question.

Bob La Londe wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri, 12 Nov 2010 07:27:01 -0700:

A crown makes for a pretty road, but it will also rut and wash away faster.


That is exactly the opposite of what I've been told, and what I've
observed. A flat dirt(not gravel) road will take tire impressions
when wet(wheel rut). That slight impression will hold water. The
next car will splash out the water and some dirt along with it.
Deeper impression= more water= more dirt loss. This can continue
until the wheel ruts are deeper than your axle clearance.

On a crowned road, that first slight impression doesn't hold the water
and the cycle isn't started. It will still need touching up now and
then but that is to be expected.
I guess you get the choice between standing water when it rains or ruts that
will break an axle when it comes to dirt road building. I suspect there may
be some real planning involved. For occasional touch up a long drag frame
seems to be the prefer method by some folks.


Made one of those, works great for smaller ruts and small potholes.
Can't move too much at one time, or it all goes to mud, and can't move
dirt along the road too far. But great for adding a bit of crown to a
road and smoothing out washboard.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan dan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Road grader question.

Bob La Londe wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:47:21 -0700:

From pure observation of roads maintained or not maintained by various local
public works and county maintenance departments. The roads that are flat
seem to hold up better (especially when not maintained at all) than the ones
that are crowned. I grew up in a rural area with dirt roads, farm roads,
and desert trails as our primary highways.


That explains it. Desert climate and desert dirt are worlds away from
what I'm working with.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default Road grader question.

On 11/12/2010 10:01 AM, Rich Grise wrote:
dan wrote:

What do you all think? I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.

You're going to _build_ a road grader? =:-O
I'd suggest going to someplace that has them or uses them, and ask some
questions and look at one. For some reason, I got a mental picture of one
where the front wheel strut has a sort of a "roll" pivot, so that the front
wheels could be on one slope, and the back wheels would be at the other.

But what do I know? ;-)

Let us know how it comes out, OK?

Cheers!
Rich



They also articulate at a position between the cabin and the rear
mounted engine ,if you look closely under the operators cabin there are
hydraulic cylinders on each side that can alter the angle of the rear
drive wheels in relation to the center line of the chassis .
The front axle pivots on a ball pivot as already pointed out and the
camber angle of the front wheels can altered as well .

Towable road graders have been around in Australia for along time ,
they are used on cattle staions (ranches) etc so they can repair thier
own roads with out hiring a road grader and operator .
There are a few companies building and marketing them here.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."


  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 127
Default Road grader question.

On Nov 11, 3:56*pm, (dan) wrote:
Anyone here know anything about running a roadgrader?
I was looking at a tractor forum where someone had made a pull behindgraderfrom an old snow plow blade.http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...4-homemade-pul...

And it got me thinking of how graders do their thing.
The key point is the blade is mounted between the front and rear
axles. *That allows the blade to lift/dip half or less as much as the
axles as it rolls over high and low spots. *This allows them to make a
flat surface quickly.

But then I started to think about crowning a dirt road. *The blade is
lowered to dig in a little deeper on the ditch side, and angled to
move the dirt to the middle of the road. *But then the rear wheels go
over the newly crowned part the wholegraderleans over. *This makes
the blade lean over too, cutting even more of a crown. *Keep going
like this and you would roll thegraderon it's side, it would seem.

Does the operator have to re-adjust the level of the blade after
starting the cut, making the blade parallel to the rear axles?
Is there some kind of automatic level thingy to keep the blade at the
same angle, or is that up to the operator?

I might like to copy the one I found on the tractor forum, but I would
like to add hydraulics to:
raise and lower the blade,
tilt the blade,
and maybe angle the blade.

I would probably use a 12v power pack with electric solenoid valves.
And then I got an idea. *If I mounded some kind of pendulum on the
blade itself that would trip switches to activate the valves, it could
be made to maintain a preset angle, regardless of the angle of the
frame. *I would have to add some kind of dampening of course, and the
precision wouldn't be too great.

What do you all think? *I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage, so
no plans to start work on this for some time, but the more I design it
in my head, the less problems I'm likely to run into later.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.


Dan, is this the type of machine you are referring to?

http://bend.craigslist.org/grd/2071802156.html

Doesn't look very complicated.

Paul


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan dan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Road grader question.

KD7HB wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 20 Nov 2010 19:05:54 -0800 (PST):

Dan, is this the type of machine you are referring to?

http://bend.craigslist.org/grd/2071802156.html

Doesn't look very complicated.


Yes. That looks great! I would totally buy that if it were closer.
I may ask the seller if they could provide some more pictures.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT Road tax for 2 days Invisible Man[_2_] UK diy 101 February 25th 10 09:38 AM
One more for the road. marcodbeast Electronic Schematics 0 April 24th 09 10:32 PM
One more for the road. marcodbeast Electronic Schematics 0 April 24th 09 10:32 PM
OT - ATV Mini Road Grader J T Woodworking 2 February 4th 08 09:56 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"