Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right now.

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Nov 4, 6:14*pm, Ecnerwal
wrote:
In article ,
*"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, *You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a good
engagement. *I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. *That's gotta be a better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. *So, how long would you leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible? *Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

If you want to get it colder, try this recipe...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d11TFkeqbwY

Ecnerwal wrote:

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

Yep, inspect and clean the tapers carefully.

Overnight in the freezer, half hour with dry ice, few minutes with
liquid nitrogen

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Ecnerwal wrote:

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a
good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press
after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might
try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a
better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you
leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right
now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

Yep, inspect and clean the tapers carefully.

Overnight in the freezer, half hour with dry ice, few minutes with
liquid nitrogen

They are clean. ** after degreasing, ** I have inspected them. They are
right on the edge of fitting up, but I just do not want to hit it that hard
to seat them up. With a rubber mallet it works fine, but sometimes loosens
up on a hard bump in certain types of work. No issues when mating with the
press. This is a brand new taper and a brand new chuck, and they have been
cleaned, and gently polished with .000 wool, and tissue detects no snags.
It just needs a good smack or something less likely to damage something like
a cold fit. I realize its just a drill press, but if I get it perfectly
straight and tightly fitted now I just won't have to worry about it any
more. Its limitations will be the mediocre quality of the drill press ever
after.

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

They are clean. ** after degreasing, ** I have inspected them. They
are right on the edge of fitting up, but I just do not want to hit it
that hard to seat them up. With a rubber mallet it works fine, but
sometimes loosens up on a hard bump in certain types of work.

I've never had problems with an "inertial fit".

I clean everything, make sure there are no burrs or non-monotonic
portions of the tapers. Then I install the taper into the chuck by hand
fit and hand pressure, them hand-propel the assembly from about 18" up
tang end down on a block of aluminum or heavy Type-I PVC (never on steel,
please!).

It seldom works loose before the taper comes loose from the socket in the
drill press, even when running self-feeding bits. It's kind of like the
action you'd use to seat an axe bit or maul on a handle (which cost me an
exploded finger tip one year! OUCH!)

LLoyd

On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 17:22:01 -0700, "Bob La Londe" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Ecnerwal wrote:

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a
good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press
after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might
try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a
better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you
leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right
now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

Yep, inspect and clean the tapers carefully.

Overnight in the freezer, half hour with dry ice, few minutes with
liquid nitrogen

They are clean. ** after degreasing, ** I have inspected them. They are
right on the edge of fitting up, but I just do not want to hit it that hard
to seat them up. With a rubber mallet it works fine, but sometimes loosens
up on a hard bump in certain types of work. No issues when mating with the
press. This is a brand new taper and a brand new chuck, and they have been
cleaned, and gently polished with .000 wool, and tissue detects no snags.
It just needs a good smack or something less likely to damage something like
a cold fit. I realize its just a drill press, but if I get it perfectly
straight and tightly fitted now I just won't have to worry about it any
more. Its limitations will be the mediocre quality of the drill press ever
after.




Which is why I suggested a 2x4 and a sharp "wap!"

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 17:22:01 -0700, "Bob La Londe" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
nster.com...

Ecnerwal wrote:

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a
good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press
after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I
might
try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a
better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you
leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core
temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right
now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you
can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

Yep, inspect and clean the tapers carefully.

Overnight in the freezer, half hour with dry ice, few minutes with
liquid nitrogen

They are clean. ** after degreasing, ** I have inspected them. They are
right on the edge of fitting up, but I just do not want to hit it that
hard
to seat them up. With a rubber mallet it works fine, but sometimes
loosens
up on a hard bump in certain types of work. No issues when mating with
the
press. This is a brand new taper and a brand new chuck, and they have
been
cleaned, and gently polished with .000 wool, and tissue detects no snags.
It just needs a good smack or something less likely to damage something
like
a cold fit. I realize its just a drill press, but if I get it perfectly
straight and tightly fitted now I just won't have to worry about it any
more. Its limitations will be the mediocre quality of the drill press
ever
after.




Which is why I suggested a 2x4 and a sharp "wap!"

Gunner

--

We had one drill quill in a machine that the chuck just wouldn't stay on no
mater how perfect we thought we had the taper. There is very little room to
get under it soooo...Roger used a .22 Ramset and a block of brass. Hasn't
come off in 5 years.

On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 23:27:58 -0400, "Tom Gardner" at@at wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 17:22:01 -0700, "Bob La Londe" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
onster.com...

Ecnerwal wrote:

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a
good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press
after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I
might
try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a
better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you
leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core
temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right
now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you
can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

Yep, inspect and clean the tapers carefully.

Overnight in the freezer, half hour with dry ice, few minutes with
liquid nitrogen

They are clean. ** after degreasing, ** I have inspected them. They are
right on the edge of fitting up, but I just do not want to hit it that
hard
to seat them up. With a rubber mallet it works fine, but sometimes
loosens
up on a hard bump in certain types of work. No issues when mating with
the
press. This is a brand new taper and a brand new chuck, and they have
been
cleaned, and gently polished with .000 wool, and tissue detects no snags.
It just needs a good smack or something less likely to damage something
like
a cold fit. I realize its just a drill press, but if I get it perfectly
straight and tightly fitted now I just won't have to worry about it any
more. Its limitations will be the mediocre quality of the drill press
ever
after.




Which is why I suggested a 2x4 and a sharp "wap!"

Gunner

--

We had one drill quill in a machine that the chuck just wouldn't stay on no
mater how perfect we thought we had the taper. There is very little room to
get under it soooo...Roger used a .22 Ramset and a block of brass. Hasn't
come off in 5 years.


Excellent! idea! My compliments to the Dude!

Gunner


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Bob,
Have you considered that the taper may be off? It is NOT uncommon. I suggest you do a Prussian blue test. It could be one or both
of the mating bits may be Chinese?
Steve

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a good engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper
to drill press after degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might try freezing the arbor and fitting
it to the chuck. That's gotta be a better alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you leave the arbor
in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s
right now.

On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 11:52:45 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Bob,
Have you considered that the taper may be off? It is NOT uncommon. I suggest you do a Prussian blue test. It could be one or both
of the mating bits may be Chinese?
Steve

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a good engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper
to drill press after degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might try freezing the arbor and fitting
it to the chuck. That's gotta be a better alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you leave the arbor
in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s
right now.



Ah...I do have both a #2 MT rougher AND finisher I could loan out....




--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 17:22:01 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Ecnerwal wrote:

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a
good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press
after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue. I thought I might
try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a
better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you
leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible? Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right
now.

Overnight should do it, unless you are in some sort of hurry. If you can
find some dry ice, apply that for a bit (10-15 minutes, with a
pre-chilled arbor) before mating...and warm the chuck as well.

None of which will do much if there's a defect (dent, dirt, burr,
scratch) in the tapers that's making them not grab properly as is.

Yep, inspect and clean the tapers carefully.

Overnight in the freezer, half hour with dry ice, few minutes with
liquid nitrogen

They are clean. ** after degreasing, ** I have inspected them. They are
right on the edge of fitting up, but I just do not want to hit it that hard
to seat them up. With a rubber mallet it works fine, but sometimes loosens
up on a hard bump in certain types of work. No issues when mating with the
press. This is a brand new taper and a brand new chuck, and they have been
cleaned, and gently polished with .000 wool, and tissue detects no snags.

Good test! 2/$1 pantyhose at the Dollar store are good for detecting
snags, too. (No, I bought them for making veggie sprouts, Tawm.)


It just needs a good smack or something less likely to damage something like
a cold fit. I realize its just a drill press, but if I get it perfectly
straight and tightly fitted now I just won't have to worry about it any
more. Its limitations will be the mediocre quality of the drill press ever
after.

Do pop the head off and support the quill, then pop that puppy down
with the proper application of a tubafore. Won't take but a few
minutes.

Seems to me that I saw taper reamer/checkers in the MSC, Enco, and
McMaster cats if you need a true sizer.

--
Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills.
-- Minna Thomas Antrim

On 2010-11-04, Bob La Londe wrote:
Hey Pete, You suggested freezing an arbor and then fitting to get a good
engagement. I'm not having any issue with the taper to drill press after
degreasing, but the taper to chuck is still an issue.

Did you try any of the impact assembly methods mentioned by
several (including me)?

I thought I might try
freezing the arbor and fitting it to the chuck. That's gotta be a better
alternative than green loctite sleeve locker. So, how long would you leave
the arbor in the freezer to get the metal down to the lowest core temp
possible?

That is a function of how big an arbor it is. I would suggest
for a MT-2 arbor with any reasonable Jacobs taper at the other end, an
hour should suffice.

But I would *also* put the chuck in the oven (perhaps about 150F
or so -- certainly not above the boiling point of water), and handle
both it and the arbor with thermally insulating gloves.

Freezer is set at 0F and ambient is in the high 70s right now.

Ignore ambient -- heat the chuck.

But the impact works well for me. My preference being to hold
by the arbor with the chuck uppermost, and bring it down on a chunk of
2x4 resting on a concrete floor or the like. The inertia of the chuck
slams it firmly onto the arbor. (Obviously, clean of oil first.)

But before you try *either* approach -- check with a very thin
film of spot check bluing for a proper fit. It might be that one of the
two parts is the European taper which is not quite Jabobs, and the other
is truly Jacobs. In that case, you will never get a truly good fit.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---