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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified,
especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Rich Grise wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich Simpler, pieces of small square tubing strapped to the tire with zip-ties. Use those stainless zip-ties if you're feeling fancy, but the basic black quality ones should be fine for a season and easy to cut off at the end of the season. No need for any circumferential chains, since the spokes will keep the zip ties from moving anywhere. |
#3
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Wes wrote:
Rich Grise wrote: My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. Sheet metal screws from inside out, tire liner, tube. Nah, that's studs, which are illegal on car tires in some places, and they really suck for when the weather changes a lot. You'd have to change the whole tire. With chains, when you come to a dry spot, you just pop off the chains, ride across the dry spot, and remount them when you come to the next ice & crap. Thanks! Rich |
#4
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Jon Elson wrote:
On 11/04/2010 03:40 PM, Rich Grise wrote: My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I think the big problem is the brakes. Unless you go to disc brakes, the traditional brake "calipers" are so close to the tire that it will be REALLY difficult to put ANYTHING over the tires without it hitting some part of the brakes. I could imagine a sort of knobby rubber belt that wraps snugly around the tire, but I could also imagine it slipping off sideways in turns or when maneuvering and locking up the wheel. That's a very good point, thanks. :-) So, I'd have to look at a lot of different bikes to see if there's a way to work within those constraints. Thanks! Rich |
#5
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
"Pete C." wrote in message ter.com... Rich Grise wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich Simpler, pieces of small square tubing strapped to the tire with zip-ties. Use those stainless zip-ties if you're feeling fancy, but the basic black quality ones should be fine for a season and easy to cut off at the end of the season. No need for any circumferential chains, since the spokes will keep the zip ties from moving anywhere. You are forgetting that the brakes still have to clamp the rim. Looks like somebody already had the snow chain idea. http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/tirechains.htm |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
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#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Nov 4, 4:40*pm, Rich Grise wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? I made chains for my garden tractor: http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...52241925535618 The steel has little traction on dry pavement and practically none on rock, ie curbstones. Also the ride is very rough on hard surfaces above a walking speed. The soft, sticky rubber in these give unbelievable traction on ice: http://www10.epinions.com/review/Mic...nt_12820123268 I used to ride my Suzuki dirt bike on frozen lakes and snowmobile trails, with trials universal tires which have a square tread pattern. Yabbut, I'm not talking about giving my idea away to tire companies! =:-O Thanks, Rich |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
anorton wrote:
Rich Grise wrote: My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota... Looks like somebody already had the snow chain idea. http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/tirechains.htm Oh, well. Maybe I'll start thinking about mousetraps. ;-) Thanks, Rich |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On Nov 4, 4:40*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich I made chains for my garden tractor: http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...52241925535618 The steel has little traction on dry pavement and practically none on rock, ie curbstones. Also the ride is very rough on hard surfaces above a walking speed. The soft, sticky rubber in these give unbelievable traction on ice: http://www10.epinions.com/review/Mic...nt_12820123268 I used to ride my Suzuki dirt bike on frozen lakes and snowmobile trails, with trials universal tires which have a square tread pattern. jsw |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 13:40:23 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich My first thought was wrap the tire with cable. but then you could not use caliper brakes. Same as with Pete's idea. Soo..option #2 Drive a bunch of short tacks through a piece of metal pallet banding; let a little air out of the tires; put the band on; crimp it and air up the tire. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On 11/04/2010 03:40 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I think the big problem is the brakes. Unless you go to disc brakes, the traditional brake "calipers" are so close to the tire that it will be REALLY difficult to put ANYTHING over the tires without it hitting some part of the brakes. I could imagine a sort of knobby rubber belt that wraps snugly around the tire, but I could also imagine it slipping off sideways in turns or when maneuvering and locking up the wheel. Jon |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Rich Grise wrote:
My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. Sheet metal screws from inside out, tire liner, tube. Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Rich Grise wrote:
My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. I wrapped baling wire around the tire and wheel when I was in junior high. It worked. I also kept a drag chute under the seat. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
anorton wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ter.com... Rich Grise wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich Simpler, pieces of small square tubing strapped to the tire with zip-ties. Use those stainless zip-ties if you're feeling fancy, but the basic black quality ones should be fine for a season and easy to cut off at the end of the season. No need for any circumferential chains, since the spokes will keep the zip ties from moving anywhere. You are forgetting that the brakes still have to clamp the rim. You think the brakes won't grab on those zip-ties? And don't all the "performance" bikes have disk brakes anyway making that a non issue? |
#15
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
"Rich Grise" wrote in message ... My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. We used to wrap thin dog leash chain around the tires and through the spokes, a nut and bolt joined the ends. Learned this from the other kids at the newspaper office. We delivered papers by bike, even through the winter. |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 15:19:50 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote: Jon Elson wrote: On 11/04/2010 03:40 PM, Rich Grise wrote: My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I think the big problem is the brakes. Unless you go to disc brakes, the traditional brake "calipers" are so close to the tire that it will be REALLY difficult to put ANYTHING over the tires without it hitting some part of the brakes. I could imagine a sort of knobby rubber belt that wraps snugly around the tire, but I could also imagine it slipping off sideways in turns or when maneuvering and locking up the wheel. That's a very good point, thanks. :-) So, I'd have to look at a lot of different bikes to see if there's a way to work within those constraints. Thanks! Rich Just get a spare set of rims and put on studded ice tires - or spiked if you really want traction on hardpack. 50 #8 X 1/2" robertson screws will make an agressive "spiked" ice and snow tire - 25 on each side in the outer lugs. You need a good liner to protect the tube. |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On 11/04/2010 03:20 PM, anorton wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message ter.com... Rich Grise wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich Simpler, pieces of small square tubing strapped to the tire with zip-ties. Use those stainless zip-ties if you're feeling fancy, but the basic black quality ones should be fine for a season and easy to cut off at the end of the season. No need for any circumferential chains, since the spokes will keep the zip ties from moving anywhere. You are forgetting that the brakes still have to clamp the rim. Not any more! They'll just have to get close to the chains, and BAM! the wheel will be stopped. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On Nov 4, 5:00*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Rich Grise wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich Simpler, pieces of small square tubing strapped to the tire with zip-ties. Use those stainless zip-ties if you're feeling fancy, but the basic black quality ones should be fine for a season and easy to cut off at the end of the season. No need for any circumferential chains, since the spokes will keep the zip ties from moving anywhere. I have used larger ZIP ties on my motorcycle for years. I try to avoid riding on snow and ice but I have used the ZIP ties several times to make it home in the past twenty years. I carry a back pack and the ZIP ties don't take up that much space. DL |
#19
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On Nov 4, 6:10*pm, Wes wrote:
Rich Grise wrote: My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. Sheet metal screws from inside out, tire liner, tube. Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." *Dick Anthony Heller I used the screws on my bicycles to. They work great but require quite a bit more pedaling effort. Doing the front tire is the most important. You get better results with front and rear though. A set of cables are easy to make also. Just keep the two outside cables on the rubber part of the tire. Run short cable cross pieces and make the sets just long enough to fit over an uninflated tire. Slip them on and put the wheels on the bike and fill with air. They will hold like super glue if you get the length just perfect. Your brake calipers will clear them also because they are above the rims. My tie idea in another post works great on motorcycles and it would work on bicycles with disc brakes also but not rim type brakes. DL. |
#20
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
Rich Grise writes:
In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. Ah, bicycles, the Peltier devices of transportation. Costly, ineffective, life-threatening, elitist, snobby. The true believer takes an utterly impossible situation like snow and turns it into an occasion for truly wacky make-believism. Tire chains? Why don't you just invent a bicycle-powered helicopter and fly over all the weather? More feasible than a bicycle in snow. |
#21
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:35:31 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: anorton wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ter.com... Rich Grise wrote: Everybody knows about tire chains. I'd like to see how they're specified, especially the "T" where the transverse chains attach to the circumferential ones. My wild idea is tire chains for bikes. I used to live in Minnesota, in an apartment that was within bike distance to work. In the winter, I couldn't bike in the snow. But there are dedicated bicyclists who might like something like bike tire chains, to drive the bike in adverse conditions. The design is trivial, but I'd have to specify what chain, the "T" connections, and some kind of connector that's got length compliance, to accommodate variations in tire diameter and etc. So, any suggestions on a specific chain, some kind of "T", and a connector? Thanks, Rich Simpler, pieces of small square tubing strapped to the tire with zip-ties. Use those stainless zip-ties if you're feeling fancy, but the basic black quality ones should be fine for a season and easy to cut off at the end of the season. No need for any circumferential chains, since the spokes will keep the zip ties from moving anywhere. You are forgetting that the brakes still have to clamp the rim. You think the brakes won't grab on those zip-ties? And don't all the "performance" bikes have disk brakes anyway making that a non issue? What? Shouldn't they be equipped with the more efficient DRUM BRAKES? snort -- Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills. -- Minna Thomas Antrim |
#22
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
We use to ride ten speeds in the snow, even on deer trails at night. The zip tie one is a good idea, but they weren't available to us at the time. Fenders are out and it is messy without more traction. SW |
#23
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My latest invention: Bicycle Tire Chains
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 15:21:29 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote: wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 13:40:23 -0700, Rich Grise wrote: My first thought was wrap the tire with cable. but then you could not use caliper brakes. Same as with Pete's idea. Soo..option #2 Drive a bunch of short tacks through a piece of metal pallet banding; let a little air out of the tires; put the band on; crimp it and air up the tire. This one's pretty clever, but could I grab the same kind of market share with something like this (how many people have a band crimper, and what happens when the snow melts?) as could be grabbed by clever marketing of chains? Thanks! Rich OK, this group is more likely to own a bandsaw blade welder. If you go into production, they would be pre-welded for differnet size tires. |
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