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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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File coarseness
Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6 ******* courser than a 14 2nd cut? Or, is a 14 smooth cut smoother that a 6 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of a ******* has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park) Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 1:58*am, jay wrote:
Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. They stay in place. I would recommend getting a type A aluminum file if you do much with aluminum. They remove aluminum quickly but leave a pretty smooth surface. Dan |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 6:16*am, " wrote:
On Nov 4, 1:58*am, jay wrote: Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. *Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. *They stay in place. I would recommend getting a type A aluminum file if you do much with aluminum. *They remove aluminum quickly but leave a pretty smooth surface. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Type A file. I do file some aluminum. That's a good idea. Golf balls. Hmm. Do U use more than 1 ball if the tang is long enough? Thanks, JD |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 11:37*am, jay wrote:
On Nov 4, 6:16*am, " wrote: On Nov 4, 1:58*am, jay wrote: Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. *Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. *They stay in place. I would recommend getting a type A aluminum file if you do much with aluminum. *They remove aluminum quickly but leave a pretty smooth surface. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Type A file. I do file some aluminum. That's a good idea. Golf balls. Hmm. Do U use more than 1 ball if the tang is long enough? Thanks, JD The idea of using golf balls came from someone here in RCM. I just use one ball. I have a bunch of big files, but don't think any of them has a tang long enough for more than one golf ball. Dan |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 3, 11:58*pm, jay wrote:
Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6 ******* courser than a 14 2nd cut? Or, is a 14 smooth cut smoother that a 6 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of a ******* has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park) Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD You'll find different manufacturers have their own ideas as to what constitutes a "smooth" cut file, for example. And needle files used to have numbers corresponding to how fine the cut was, no corresponding between makers. Same cut in the same manufacturer's line should be the same TPI no matter what size or pattern the file is. Somewhere I've got a really old shop manual naming the cuts available back then with TPI ranges and photos of the various patterns. You'd be lucky today to find a 10th of the different ones thay had back then. file handles: Best I've found has been one sort that has two ridged jaws like a brace chuck. Opens up in a taper, you turn a knurled disk on the end and it draws the jaws back inside. Doesn't lose its grip, either. Ace has had them, ditto True Value. You can make your own with a little work, wood is easy to free-turn on a lathe, then use copper plumbing pipe for ferrules. Have several of that sort, too, they don't come off. You're supposed to PUSH with the things, not beat the work on the head or drag the file with as much down pressure backwards as what you do forwards. Stan |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
I think you'll find Stan's assessment tooth patterns to be true. The only
time I've seen really coarse quality-made files in recent years, was at flea markets/garage sales where some old stuff was dragged out of an attic or other dry storage area.. where those great old files had been sitting for a few decades or more. For just about any files, aside from tiny/fine jewelers' files, one should be able to produce 3-4 surface finishes.. each with different metal removal rates. Files can be pushed straight, allowed to drift/arc right or left while cutting, or be drawn/pulled while held perpendicular to the direction of travel while cutting. Being a southpaw, files work differently than when being held right-handed. Some of my most frequently used files for deburring are ones I made by snapping the bare handle end off.. then attaching a handle suitable for pulling, to the tip end. These are very fast at taking off edges and corners when pulled. Narrow three-sided ones are very handy for small parts that are easily held in one hand, and the deburring file in the other. Being southpaw, it's always felt natural to use a file on a lathe workpiece.. something that would feel sorta weird if I held the handle right-handed. Then there are rasp/file combination tools that have very prickly teeth raised up out of the metal, and these are really fast on aluminum, soft metals and synthetic materials. There is a commonly available double-ended combination rasp/file tool that I intentionally broke in half, then attached with epoxy putty to longer pieces of aluminum bar stock to form a handled tool that cuts on the pull stroke. With the prickly rasp teeth, it's a great tool to prep a repair spot in fiberglas. The raised teeth really rip into the resin and glass substrate, without raising a cloud of nasty dust such as a grinder or sander would cause. It seems that soapstone is a reasonable compound to put on files to keep the teeth from clogging. I've used it for quite a while, and haven't found any disadvantages to chalk. Chalk will always be absorbing moisture, but I dunno if absorption is an issue with soapstone. -- WB .......... wrote in message ... On Nov 3, 11:58 pm, jay wrote: Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6 ******* courser than a 14 2nd cut? Or, is a 14 smooth cut smoother that a 6 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of a ******* has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park) Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD You'll find different manufacturers have their own ideas as to what constitutes a "smooth" cut file, for example. And needle files used to have numbers corresponding to how fine the cut was, no corresponding between makers. Same cut in the same manufacturer's line should be the same TPI no matter what size or pattern the file is. Somewhere I've got a really old shop manual naming the cuts available back then with TPI ranges and photos of the various patterns. You'd be lucky today to find a 10th of the different ones thay had back then. file handles: Best I've found has been one sort that has two ridged jaws like a brace chuck. Opens up in a taper, you turn a knurled disk on the end and it draws the jaws back inside. Doesn't lose its grip, either. Ace has had them, ditto True Value. You can make your own with a little work, wood is easy to free-turn on a lathe, then use copper plumbing pipe for ferrules. Have several of that sort, too, they don't come off. You're supposed to PUSH with the things, not beat the work on the head or drag the file with as much down pressure backwards as what you do forwards. Stan |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
Libtardopia Lost wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message Buerste wrote: The idea of using golf balls came from someone here in RCM. I just use one ball. I have a bunch of big files, but don't think any of them has a tang long enough for more than one golf ball. And a FAR better use for golf balls than what I usuallydo to them! We don't want to know what you do with them, you prevert! ;-) So, do you want to smell my balls? http://images.onset.freedom.com/ocre...gvkrd0p8.1.jpg Cheers! Rich |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
jay wrote:
Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6 ******* courser than a 14 2nd cut? Or, is a 14 smooth cut smoother that a 6 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of a ******* has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park) Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I've used some file handles which "screw onto" the tang. The hole in them looks sort of like the inside of a wirenut, but the wire looks like it's triangular in cross section so it presents somewhat sharp threads which dig into the tang. Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight. |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 9:32*am, wrote:
On Nov 3, 11:58*pm, jay wrote: Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6 ******* courser than a 14 2nd cut? Or, is a 14 smooth cut smoother that a 6 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of a ******* has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park) Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD You'll find different manufacturers have their own ideas as to what constitutes a "smooth" cut file, for example. *And needle files used to have numbers corresponding to how fine the cut was, no corresponding between makers. *Same cut in the same manufacturer's line should be the same TPI no matter what size or pattern the file is. *Somewhere I've got a really old shop manual naming the cuts available back then with TPI ranges and photos of the various patterns. *You'd be lucky today to find a 10th of the different ones thay had back then. file handles: Best I've found has been one sort that has two ridged jaws like a brace chuck. *Opens up in a taper, you turn a knurled disk on the end and it draws the jaws back inside. *Doesn't lose its grip, either. Ace has had them, ditto True Value. *You can make your own with a little work, wood is easy to free-turn on a lathe, then use copper plumbing pipe for ferrules. *Have several of that sort, too, they don't come off. *You're supposed to PUSH with the things, not beat the work on the head or drag the file with as much down pressure backwards as what you do forwards. Stan U mean beat the work on the head, like one would beat little kids on the head :-? Thanks for all the good advice. I don't have much of a problem reducing pressure on the back stroke of a file, but where I really fall down is w/ a hack saw. I really don't like hack sawing much. I go too fast, work up a sweat, & don't relieve enough pressure. @ least I don't like to hack saw any steel ~ 1/4. Softer or smaller I don't mind so much. Thanks again, JD |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 10:37*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I think you'll find Stan's assessment tooth patterns to be true. The only time I've seen really coarse quality-made files in recent years, was at flea markets/garage sales where some old stuff was dragged out of an attic or other dry storage area.. where those great old files had been sitting for a few decades or more. For just about any files, aside from tiny/fine jewelers' files, one should be able to produce 3-4 surface finishes.. each with different metal removal rates. Files can be pushed straight, allowed to drift/arc right or left while cutting, or be drawn/pulled while held perpendicular to the direction of travel while cutting. Being a southpaw, files work differently than when being held right-handed. Some of my most frequently used files for deburring are ones I made by snapping the bare handle end off.. then attaching a handle suitable for pulling, to the tip end. These are very fast at taking off edges and corners when pulled. Narrow three-sided ones are very handy for small parts that are easily held in one hand, and the deburring file in the other. Being southpaw, it's always felt natural to use a file on a lathe workpiece.. something that would feel sorta weird if I held the handle right-handed. Then there are rasp/file combination tools that have very prickly teeth raised up out of the metal, and these are really fast on aluminum, soft metals and synthetic materials. There is a commonly available double-ended combination rasp/file tool that I intentionally broke in half, then attached with epoxy putty to longer pieces of aluminum bar stock to form a handled tool that cuts on the pull stroke. With the prickly rasp teeth, it's a great tool to prep a repair spot in fiberglas. The raised teeth really rip into the resin and glass substrate, without raising a cloud of nasty dust such as a grinder or sander would cause. It seems that soapstone is a reasonable compound to put on files to keep the teeth from clogging. I've used it for quite a while, and haven't found any disadvantages to chalk. Chalk will always be absorbing moisture, but I dunno if absorption is an issue with soapstone. -- WB ......... wrote in message ... On Nov 3, 11:58 pm, jay wrote: Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6 ******* courser than a 14 2nd cut? Or, is a 14 smooth cut smoother that a 6 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of a ******* has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park) Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD You'll find different manufacturers have their own ideas as to what constitutes a "smooth" cut file, for example. *And needle files used to have numbers corresponding to how fine the cut was, no corresponding between makers. *Same cut in the same manufacturer's line should be the same TPI no matter what size or pattern the file is. *Somewhere I've got a really old shop manual naming the cuts available back then with TPI ranges and photos of the various patterns. *You'd be lucky today to find a 10th of the different ones thay had back then. file handles: Best I've found has been one sort that has two ridged jaws like a brace chuck. *Opens up in a taper, you turn a knurled disk on the end and it draws the jaws back inside. *Doesn't lose its grip, either. Ace has had them, ditto True Value. *You can make your own with a little work, wood is easy to free-turn on a lathe, then use copper plumbing pipe for ferrules. *Have several of that sort, too, they don't come off. *You're supposed to PUSH with the things, not beat the work on the head or drag the file with as much down pressure backwards as what you do forwards. Stan Soapstone does sound like a good idea. I don't know how much free soapstone I have left from before I retired, quite a bit. If I hadn't thrown away most of it as it accumulated over the years, I'd have many Lbs. left. Thanks, again, JD |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 10:37*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I think you'll find Stan's assessment tooth patterns to be true. The only time I've seen really coarse quality-made files in recent years, was at flea markets/garage sales where some old stuff was dragged out of an attic or other dry storage area.. where those great old files had been sitting for a few decades or more. For just about any files, aside from tiny/fine jewelers' files, one should be able to produce 3-4 surface finishes.. each with different metal removal rates. Files can be pushed straight, allowed to drift/arc right or left while cutting, or be drawn/pulled while held perpendicular to the direction of travel while cutting. Being a southpaw, files work differently than when being held right-handed. Some of my most frequently used files for deburring are ones I made by snapping the bare handle end off.. then attaching a handle suitable for pulling, to the tip end. These are very fast at taking off edges and corners when pulled. Narrow three-sided ones are very handy for small parts that are easily held in one hand, and the deburring file in the other. Being southpaw, it's always felt natural to use a file on a lathe workpiece.. something that would feel sorta weird if I held the handle right-handed. Then there are rasp/file combination tools that have very prickly teeth raised up out of the metal, and these are really fast on aluminum, soft metals and synthetic materials. There is a commonly available double-ended combination rasp/file tool that I intentionally broke in half, then attached with epoxy putty to longer pieces of aluminum bar stock to form a handled tool that cuts on the pull stroke. With the prickly rasp teeth, it's a great tool to prep a repair spot in fiberglas. The raised teeth really rip into the resin and glass substrate, without raising a cloud of nasty dust such as a grinder or sander would cause. It seems that soapstone is a reasonable compound to put on files to keep the teeth from clogging. I've used it for quite a while, and haven't found any disadvantages to chalk. Chalk will always be absorbing moisture, but I dunno if absorption is an issue with soapstone. -- WB ......... wrote in message ... On Nov 3, 11:58 pm, jay wrote: Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6 ******* courser than a 14 2nd cut? Or, is a 14 smooth cut smoother that a 6 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of a ******* has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park) Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD You'll find different manufacturers have their own ideas as to what constitutes a "smooth" cut file, for example. *And needle files used to have numbers corresponding to how fine the cut was, no corresponding between makers. *Same cut in the same manufacturer's line should be the same TPI no matter what size or pattern the file is. *Somewhere I've got a really old shop manual naming the cuts available back then with TPI ranges and photos of the various patterns. *You'd be lucky today to find a 10th of the different ones thay had back then. file handles: Best I've found has been one sort that has two ridged jaws like a brace chuck. *Opens up in a taper, you turn a knurled disk on the end and it draws the jaws back inside. *Doesn't lose its grip, either. Ace has had them, ditto True Value. *You can make your own with a little work, wood is easy to free-turn on a lathe, then use copper plumbing pipe for ferrules. *Have several of that sort, too, they don't come off. *You're supposed to PUSH with the things, not beat the work on the head or drag the file with as much down pressure backwards as what you do forwards. Stan Being southpaw, it's always felt natural to use a file on a lathe workpiece.. something that would feel sorta weird if I held the handle right-handed. Rt. handed sounds downright dangerous, especially w/ long sleeves. Something I did a lot when younger, but almost never do now. Wearing Tee shirts these days. Odd when I think of it. Being somewhat ambidextrous,I probably filled left handed on a lathe. I hacksaw left handed when I get tired Rt. Handed. JD |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
wrote in message ... On Nov 4, 1:58 am, jay wrote: Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. They stay in place. Dan Just watch out for the liquid filled center ones! phil |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
Phil Kangas wrote: wrote in message ... On Nov 4, 1:58 am, jay wrote: Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. They stay in place. Dan Just watch out for the liquid filled center ones! phil SHHHH!!! -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 4:53*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Phil Kangas wrote: wrote in message .... On Nov 4, 1:58 am, jay wrote: Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. *Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. *They stay in place. * * * Dan Just watch out for the liquid filled center ones! phil * *SHHHH!!! -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. Back to my original post, Are there any preferences for Simonds vs. Nicholson or anyother brand? I hope that's not a troll question like Fords or Chevys. Thanks, JD |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 5:32*pm, jay wrote:
On Nov 4, 4:53*pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Phil Kangas wrote: wrote in message .... On Nov 4, 1:58 am, jay wrote: Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. *Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. *They stay in place. * * * Dan Just watch out for the liquid filled center ones! phil * *SHHHH!!! -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. Back to my original post, Are there any preferences for Simonds vs. Nicholson or anyother brand? I hope that's not a troll question like Fords or Chevys. Thanks, JD I would like to buy a set of files & not waste a lot of $ on files of different lengths of ~ the same coarseness. Or buy individual files to meet my needs, but that would probably be more expensive. Any suggestions? Thanks, JD |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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File coarseness
jay wrote: On Nov 4, 4:53 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Phil Kangas wrote: wrote in message ... On Nov 4, 1:58 am, jay wrote: Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No? Thanks for any info, JD I use golf balls for file handles. Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. They stay in place. Dan Just watch out for the liquid filled center ones! phil SHHHH!!! Back to my original post, Are there any preferences for Simonds vs. Nicholson or any other brand? I hope that's not a troll question like Fords or Chevys. Nicholson was always my favorite, but it was one of the most common availible, if a file had a brand name. A lot of them i sw didn't. I had to find a 4" mill ******* a few months ago and ended up ordering a Nicholson through Grainger's. My old ones (a pair) disappeared after 30 years of use. -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
#17
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File coarseness
jay wrote: I would like to buy a set of files & not waste a lot of $ on files of different lengths of ~ the same coarseness. Or buy individual files to meet my needs, but that would probably be more expensive. If you only need a few, check out Grainger's or other online distributors. I have a local Grainger's store, and they special ordered what I needed from their warehouse. I never had much luck with whole sets. Most of a 'set' was useless for my work. -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
#18
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File coarseness
If you only need a few, check out Grainger's or other online
distributors. I have a local Grainger's store, and they special ordered what I needed from their warehouse. OK that's what I am anticipating doing. but which ones to buy? I want to to be able to produce a variety of finishes on hard steel, to aluminum, & other soft materials, w/ a minimum of work & a reasonably minimum amount of files (read $). What would some of the regular contributors here, people who work regularly in shops, buy to meet my needs? Please share any specific advice, JD |
#19
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File coarseness
On Nov 4, 6:00*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: jay wrote: I would like to buy a set of files & not waste a lot of $ on files of different lengths of ~ the same coarseness. Or buy individual files to meet my needs, but that would probably be more expensive. * *If you only need a few, check out Grainger's or other online distributors. *I have a local Grainger's store, and they special ordered what I needed from their warehouse. * *I never had much luck with whole sets. *Most of a 'set' was useless for my work. -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. Yeah, that's pretty much been my experience w/ sets of anything. 1st Aid kits, U name it, JD |
#20
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File coarseness
Tom Gardner wrote: Most of my balls have smiles on them. So why do you hit them with a club? -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
#21
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File coarseness
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
... My old ones [files] (a pair) disappeared after 30 years of use. Doncha' hate that? I had that happen with a piece of sandpaper. G Bob |
#22
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File coarseness
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#23
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File coarseness
A commonly used, although not precisely accurate term for shaping files like
Doug describes with widely-spaced teeth, is Vixen file. The teeth are spaced more similarly to gear rack, than to most common metalworking files. Vixen files were very popular in past decades/generations when all autobody damage work was finished with a torch instead of a plastic spatula/spreader. Vixen files rapidly peel away soft materials such as autobody lead for very fast leveling of a surface. http://www.cleavelandtool.com/catalog/shaping.html The ones that I have don't have a blank tang for a handle, but instead have a countersunk hole near each end to mount them to full-length (typically wooden) holder which is sorta like holding a long, narrow wood plane. Some Vixen holders are metal/aluminum, and may have a turnbuckle in the center for slight ajustments of straight to small arc. Vixen files used to be available in various lengths and shapes, but the most common shapes were flat and rounded. Some other specialty files that are extremely handy, are the pull-cut types used with die filing machines. I stumbled upon some new 8" Oliver files at a flea market years ago, and continue to use them almost daily. They are available (when you can find 'em) in various shapes, and easily recognized by the straight/parallel sides. On square or rectangular shapes, one edge may be a safe edge (smooth so it won't cut), which is also very handy whether using them by hand or machine use. Files that cut on the pull stroke can remove material very effectively (even single-handedly held) after a little practice. They're very fast for openings in panels and various other situations where filing with a single hand is more convenient. The pull stroke is efficient at material removal, similar to using a coping saw cutting on the pull stroke instead of pushing it. There are some presently-made brands that include parallel-sided files that can be adapted for die filer machine use by annealing the tip end (or brazing a scrap to the end) to mount in the filing machine, and breaking off the handle tang. I'm still fond of filing after many years. A couple of used files were my first metalworking cutting tools that I had in my youth. -- WB .......... "Doug White" wrote in message . .. jay wrote in news:01010bd1-1baf-4ce9-b2d3- : If you only need a few, check out Grainger's or other online distributors. I have a local Grainger's store, and they special ordered what I needed from their warehouse. OK that's what I am anticipating doing. but which ones to buy? I want to to be able to produce a variety of finishes on hard steel, to aluminum, & other soft materials, w/ a minimum of work & a reasonably minimum amount of files (read $). What would some of the regular contributors here, people who work regularly in shops, buy to meet my needs? Please share any specific advice, JD Rule #1: Get good ones. Nicholson & Simonds are pretty good, Grobet is better. Grobet also makes really nice handles that screw on & don't come off (or loose). I use 3 files more than any others by an order of magnitude: #1 A fine 4" pointed half round file for knocking burrs off of stuff. The sharp point is good for getting into small spots & holes: Precision Half-Round Hand File 4" Long, 15/32" W X 9/64" Thickness, Swiss pattern, Cut No. 2 (McMaster Carr #4248A23) #2 Simonds 8" half round Multi-Kut. This is my favorite general purpose file. It cuts reasonably fast, leaves a good finish, & doesn't clog too quickly. #3 Nicholson "Superior Standard" 10" half round soft metal file (sometimes called a "lead float" or Babbitt file). This has widely spaced arched teeth that leave a fairly smooth finish on soft materials without clogging. Good for removing large amounts of material in brass, aluminum & plastic. The trick is that Nicholson doesn't seem to sell the large half-round ones any more (they have an 8"), and everyone has a different name for them. They are used a lot for body work, planing down body putty & filler. Note: some "babbitt" files have a more conventional cut to the teeth. Simonds sells the right shape teeth on theirs, but they only have flat. It's also good to have a set of Swiss needle files in a fine & medium cut. Good sets are spendy, but will long out last the cheap ones. The price difference can be close to an order of magnitude. McMaster carries $140 sets & $20 sets. I'd look for something in between, or try to catch a good sale. Also a medium cut 1/4" round "rat tail" file, and a similar sized triangular file. Doug White |
#24
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File coarseness
On 2010-11-05, Doug White wrote:
[ ... ] Rule #1: Get good ones. Nicholson & Simonds are pretty good, Grobet is better. Grobet also makes really nice handles that screw on & don't come off (or loose). I use 3 files more than any others by an order of magnitude: #1 A fine 4" pointed half round file for knocking burrs off of stuff. I tend to use the Shaviv replaceable blade deburring tools for most of that kind of work. Three kinds: 1) The standard hook blade to deburr a single edge. 2) The steeper hook, to deburr both sides of sheet metal. 3) The countersink in a ratchet for deburring single sided holes. *My* favorite files are "safe-edge" files. Cutting on the two flat sides. Smooth on the two edges. (Since I more often use files for squaring up the corners of a milled opening for mounting a switch or meter in a rectangular hole. This lets me cut right up to the edge of the hole without unintentionally widening the hole at the corner. A safe side triangular file is useful at times too. [ ... ] And so far -- nobody has mentioned a "mill *******", which is good for smoothing a finish on a lathe. It has grooves at a much steeper angle, so the effect is closer to draw filing. Of course, make *sure* to have a handle on it when you use it on a lathe. And be careful of sleeves in chuck jaws. (I prefer to use collets when filing, if I have some large enough.) It's also good to have a set of Swiss needle files in a fine & medium cut. Good sets are spendy, but will long out last the cheap ones. The price difference can be close to an order of magnitude. McMaster carries $140 sets & $20 sets. I'd look for something in between, or try to catch a good sale. Also a medium cut 1/4" round "rat tail" file, and a similar sized triangular file. Yes. And (for some things) a set of diamond grit needle files. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#25
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File coarseness
Bob Engelhardt wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: ... My old ones [files] (a pair) disappeared after 30 years of use. Doncha' hate that? I had that happen with a piece of sandpaper. G They were almost worn out, but there are places where nothing else works. The originals were less than 50 cents each. The replacement was $8. -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
#26
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File coarseness
Like mothers have said for generations: "Wipe that smile off your
face, or I'll...." -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Tom Gardner wrote: Most of my balls have smiles on them. So why do you hit them with a club? -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
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