On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:39:40 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:40:00 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

But people can get sick and so, poverty is not always the
fault of the person. Usually it is, however.

Ergo, Gunner makes life choices, such as not wanting a 9-5 job, and so
he is in poverty. He is not forced into poverty, this is just the way
he wants to live, which is of course a free choice that I respect.

i

So you now suddenly agree with the sig. Fascinating.

Mostly, with the medical exception.

i

Which medical exception?

I think that poverty, with the exception of when it is caused by
physical or mental illness, or something else that is veru rare and
unusual, is a result of life choices.

i

On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 12:48:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Nov 2, 1:21*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

* *Engineers with six figure incomes have ended up homeless when their
job market changes. *How is that a 'life choice'?


Not disagreeing with most of what you say, BUT................

Anyone with a six figure income ought to have enough sense to save a
significant portion of that income. And also ought to have enough
sense to see that the job market is changing and keep learning so one
has skills that are what the market wants. So to me an engineer that
has a six figure income and ends up homeless when their job market
changes has made a poor life choice.

Dan

Bingo!

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:51:19 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, wrote:
On Nov 2, 1:21?pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

? ?Engineers with six figure incomes have ended up homeless when their
job market changes. ?How is that a 'life choice'?


Not disagreeing with most of what you say, BUT................

Anyone with a six figure income ought to have enough sense to save a
significant portion of that income. And also ought to have enough
sense to see that the job market is changing and keep learning so one
has skills that are what the market wants. So to me an engineer that
has a six figure income and ends up homeless when their job market
changes has made a poor life choice.

Dan, you have nailed it. Everyone knows that anyone can lose a
job. That's why people should save, instead of buying the biggest
house that the dumbest bank would let them buy.

i

So Iggy is now agreeing with my sig?

Fascinating how he keeps thinking it over..and coming to agree....

G

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:57:18 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:39:40 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:40:00 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

But people can get sick and so, poverty is not always the
fault of the person. Usually it is, however.

Ergo, Gunner makes life choices, such as not wanting a 9-5 job, and so
he is in poverty. He is not forced into poverty, this is just the way
he wants to live, which is of course a free choice that I respect.

i

So you now suddenly agree with the sig. Fascinating.

Mostly, with the medical exception.

i

Which medical exception?

I think that poverty, with the exception of when it is caused by
physical or mental illness, or something else that is veru rare and
unusual, is a result of life choices.

i

So you are now agreeing with this sig....?

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

And everyone can see that medical illness is generally..though not
always...is the result of life choices as well.

My heart attack/bypass/stroke...think that wasnt caused by my poor life
choices in one aspect or another?

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:57:18 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:39:40 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:40:00 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

But people can get sick and so, poverty is not always the
fault of the person. Usually it is, however.

Ergo, Gunner makes life choices, such as not wanting a 9-5 job, and so
he is in poverty. He is not forced into poverty, this is just the way
he wants to live, which is of course a free choice that I respect.

i

So you now suddenly agree with the sig. Fascinating.

Mostly, with the medical exception.

i

Which medical exception?

I think that poverty, with the exception of when it is caused by
physical or mental illness, or something else that is veru rare and
unusual, is a result of life choices.

i

So you are now agreeing with this sig....?

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

I only agree with the last sentence of that signature.

Everything else is thoughtless balderdash. For example, taxing the
rich and spending money on educating "the poor" is a useful endeavour.
So are numerous other things.

From the standpoint of an economist, poverty results generally from
inability of people to be economically useful (as in, perform some
useful function and show up at work sober every day). If they are not
"worth" paying above poverty wages, they would not be paid.

So, if we try, in various ways, to make people able to command higher
wages, that is a useful approach.

And everyone can see that medical illness is generally..though not
always...is the result of life choices as well.

My heart attack/bypass/stroke...think that wasnt caused by my poor life
choices in one aspect or another?

This is an excellent point, as well. Sometimes it is indeed the case.

i

" wrote:

On Nov 2, 1:21 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
wrote:

? Engineers with six figure incomes have ended up homeless when their
? job market changes. How is that a 'life choice'?
?

Not disagreeing with most of what you say, BUT................

Anyone with a six figure income ought to have enough sense to save a
significant portion of that income. And also ought to have enough
sense to see that the job market is changing and keep learning so one
has skills that are what the market wants. So to me an engineer that
has a six figure income and ends up homeless when their job market
changes has made a poor life choice.


So you're supposed to know that your employer is being bought out?
How many years can you live on your savings? I did for over two when my
company was bought and closed.

Sometimes the work is shipped overseas with no warning to the
employees. How is that a life choice?

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Ignoramus27744 wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
?
? Ignoramus27744 wrote:
??
?? On 2010-11-02, Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
?? ?
?? ? Ignoramus31297 wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? On 2010-11-02, Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ? Gunner Asch wrote:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 20:50:28 -0500, Ignoramus31297
?? ?? ?? ? wrote:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? ?On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch ? wrote:
?? ?? ?? ?? "Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
?? ?? ?? ?? or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
?? ?? ?? ?? caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
?? ?? ?? ?? isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
?? ?? ?? ?? Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
?? ?? ?? ?? results." - John Tucci,
?? ?? ?? ?
?? ?? ?? ?It is also often caused by medical or mental problems. In the United
?? ?? ?? ?States, absent the above two problems, it is very easy not to be in
?? ?? ?? ?poverty. All one needs is to keep his act together.
?? ?? ?? ?
?? ?? ?? ?i
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? Tell that to someone hit by a stoner in a VW
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ? Iggy just doesn't get it. Not everyone can fall into a cesspool and
?? ?? ? come out with a gold brick. OTOH, 'Luck' is a fickle bitch.
?? ??
?? ?? So, then, you disagree with Gunner's signature above?
?? ?
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? What disagreement? Are you drinking again? Or don't you understand
?? ? what 'A change of luck' is?
??
?? Read the sentence from Gunner that I quoted:
??
?? ``Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
?? results.''
??
?? Do you agree, or disagree, with that sentence?
?
?
? Sigh. Poverty has many causes, and obesity can be caused by medical
? problems, or according to recent research, it may have a genetic cause
? for some people.
?
?
? If you lost your job and couldn't find any work, how is that a 'life
? choice'? You have an accident and can't work isn't a choice. Your
? health fails, and it isn't a choice. There are hundreds, or even
? thousands of things that can put you into poverty. If you are forced
? into poverty you can't afford good food, so you have to live on the
? cheapest you can buy, which are full of starches ? sugars.
?
? Engineers with six figure incomes have ended up homeless when their
? job market changes. How is that a 'life choice'?
?
? Once again, I say you have no clue.
?
?

So, you said a lot of blah blah blah, but you did not say whether you
agree or disagree with that sentence from Gunner's signature.


I stated my position. Take it or leave it.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Nov 2, 7:08*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

* *So you're supposed to know that your employer is being bought out?
How many years can you live on your savings? *I did for over two when my
company was bought and closed.

* *Sometimes the work is shipped overseas with no warning to the
employees. *How is that a life choice?

You are suppose to know when the job market for your job is changing.
And somehow I was usually aware when work was likely to cease.
Sometimes I was a bit too aware. I worked on a design that went into
production. I did not see any more design work coming down the pike,
so found a job good for a year in another section of the company at a
remote site. When the year was almost up, I checked to see what was
happening at the main plant and found they had just started laying off
design engineers. So I was about a year too early in finding a new
job. Fortunately my former supervisor had found a new job and I was
able to get a job where he now worked.

Another time I worked at a location setting up a new production line.
After a couple of years, we had things running smooth and nothing new
seemed to be coming down the pike. So I looked and found a job
elsewhere. About six months later the gov agency decided they could
do everything with civil servants and the contract I had been working
on got reduced from about 85 people to 6 liason engineers.

My life choices were to find something new to learn and do when things
became routine. Other engineers made life choices to concentrate on
their golf games.

Dan

On 2010-11-02, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

On Nov 2, 1:21 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
wrote:

? Engineers with six figure incomes have ended up homeless when their
? job market changes. How is that a 'life choice'?
?

Not disagreeing with most of what you say, BUT................

Anyone with a six figure income ought to have enough sense to save a
significant portion of that income. And also ought to have enough
sense to see that the job market is changing and keep learning so one
has skills that are what the market wants. So to me an engineer that
has a six figure income and ends up homeless when their job market
changes has made a poor life choice.


So you're supposed to know that your employer is being bought out?
How many years can you live on your savings? I did for over two when my
company was bought and closed.

Sometimes the work is shipped overseas with no warning to the
employees. How is that a life choice?


The "choice" that Dan was talking about, is called saving money.

i

" wrote:

On Nov 2, 7:08 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
wrote:

? So you're supposed to know that your employer is being bought out?
? How many years can you live on your savings? I did for over two when my
? company was bought and closed.
?
? Sometimes the work is shipped overseas with no warning to the
? employees. How is that a life choice?

You are suppose to know when the job market for your job is changing.
And somehow I was usually aware when work was likely to cease.
Sometimes I was a bit too aware. I worked on a design that went into
production. I did not see any more design work coming down the pike,
so found a job good for a year in another section of the company at a
remote site. When the year was almost up, I checked to see what was
happening at the main plant and found they had just started laying off
design engineers. So I was about a year too early in finding a new
job. Fortunately my former supervisor had found a new job and I was
able to get a job where he now worked.

Another time I worked at a location setting up a new production line.
After a couple of years, we had things running smooth and nothing new
seemed to be coming down the pike. So I looked and found a job
elsewhere. About six months later the gov agency decided they could
do everything with civil servants and the contract I had been working
on got reduced from about 85 people to 6 liason engineers.

My life choices were to find something new to learn and do when things
became routine. Other engineers made life choices to concentrate on
their golf games.


Some jobs never become routine, yet close without notice. At my last
job we were told that L3 was closing a plant up north that had major
problems and was moving what work they had to Florida. We heard that
for a year while they built a new plant up north. In the meantime, were
were busy converting BOM and stock numbers to consolidate both
operations. Then, when the change was to take place they laid off half
the staff and moved the business out of state. How would you see that
coming? How is that a life choice?


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Ignoramus27744 wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
?
? " wrote:
??
?? On Nov 2, 1:21 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
?? wrote:
??
?? ? Engineers with six figure incomes have ended up homeless when their
?? ? job market changes. How is that a 'life choice'?
?? ?
??
?? Not disagreeing with most of what you say, BUT................
??
?? Anyone with a six figure income ought to have enough sense to save a
?? significant portion of that income. And also ought to have enough
?? sense to see that the job market is changing and keep learning so one
?? has skills that are what the market wants. So to me an engineer that
?? has a six figure income and ends up homeless when their job market
?? changes has made a poor life choice.
?
?
? So you're supposed to know that your employer is being bought out?
? How many years can you live on your savings? I did for over two when my
? company was bought and closed.
?
? Sometimes the work is shipped overseas with no warning to the
? employees. How is that a life choice?
?

The "choice" that Dan was talking about, is called saving money.


Sigh. Can't you read? I lived for two years on my savings. How
long could you get by with zero income?

My line of work went away within days of the terrorists destroying
the World Trade Center towers. I was laid of the Friday before, and had
one working day to find work before all high tech work left this area.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On 2010-11-03, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

On Nov 2, 7:08 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
wrote:

? So you're supposed to know that your employer is being bought out?
? How many years can you live on your savings? I did for over two when my
? company was bought and closed.
?
? Sometimes the work is shipped overseas with no warning to the
? employees. How is that a life choice?

You are suppose to know when the job market for your job is changing.
And somehow I was usually aware when work was likely to cease.
Sometimes I was a bit too aware. I worked on a design that went into
production. I did not see any more design work coming down the pike,
so found a job good for a year in another section of the company at a
remote site. When the year was almost up, I checked to see what was
happening at the main plant and found they had just started laying off
design engineers. So I was about a year too early in finding a new
job. Fortunately my former supervisor had found a new job and I was
able to get a job where he now worked.

Another time I worked at a location setting up a new production line.
After a couple of years, we had things running smooth and nothing new
seemed to be coming down the pike. So I looked and found a job
elsewhere. About six months later the gov agency decided they could
do everything with civil servants and the contract I had been working
on got reduced from about 85 people to 6 liason engineers.

My life choices were to find something new to learn and do when things
became routine. Other engineers made life choices to concentrate on
their golf games.


Some jobs never become routine, yet close without notice. At my last
job we were told that L3 was closing a plant up north that had major
problems and was moving what work they had to Florida. We heard that
for a year while they built a new plant up north. In the meantime, were
were busy converting BOM and stock numbers to consolidate both
operations. Then, when the change was to take place they laid off half
the staff and moved the business out of state. How would you see that
coming? How is that a life choice?



The life choice is to save money and remain flexible.

You cannot forecast every corporate stupidity.

i

Ignoramus27744 wrote:

On 2010-11-03, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

On Nov 2, 7:08 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
wrote:

? So you're supposed to know that your employer is being bought out?
? How many years can you live on your savings? I did for over two when my
? company was bought and closed.
?
? Sometimes the work is shipped overseas with no warning to the
? employees. How is that a life choice?

You are suppose to know when the job market for your job is changing.
And somehow I was usually aware when work was likely to cease.
Sometimes I was a bit too aware. I worked on a design that went into
production. I did not see any more design work coming down the pike,
so found a job good for a year in another section of the company at a
remote site. When the year was almost up, I checked to see what was
happening at the main plant and found they had just started laying off
design engineers. So I was about a year too early in finding a new
job. Fortunately my former supervisor had found a new job and I was
able to get a job where he now worked.

Another time I worked at a location setting up a new production line.
After a couple of years, we had things running smooth and nothing new
seemed to be coming down the pike. So I looked and found a job
elsewhere. About six months later the gov agency decided they could
do everything with civil servants and the contract I had been working
on got reduced from about 85 people to 6 liason engineers.

My life choices were to find something new to learn and do when things
became routine. Other engineers made life choices to concentrate on
their golf games.


Some jobs never become routine, yet close without notice. At my last
job we were told that L3 was closing a plant up north that had major
problems and was moving what work they had to Florida. We heard that
for a year while they built a new plant up north. In the meantime, were
were busy converting BOM and stock numbers to consolidate both
operations. Then, when the change was to take place they laid off half
the staff and moved the business out of state. How would you see that
coming? How is that a life choice?



The life choice is to save money and remain flexible.


I DID. Have you?


You cannot forecast every corporate stupidity.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:27:05 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:57:18 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:39:40 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

On 2010-11-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:40:00 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

But people can get sick and so, poverty is not always the
fault of the person. Usually it is, however.

Ergo, Gunner makes life choices, such as not wanting a 9-5 job, and so
he is in poverty. He is not forced into poverty, this is just the way
he wants to live, which is of course a free choice that I respect.

i

So you now suddenly agree with the sig. Fascinating.

Mostly, with the medical exception.

i

Which medical exception?

I think that poverty, with the exception of when it is caused by
physical or mental illness, or something else that is veru rare and
unusual, is a result of life choices.

i

So you are now agreeing with this sig....?

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

I only agree with the last sentence of that signature.

There are only 3 sentences in that sig.


Everything else is thoughtless balderdash. For example, taxing the
rich and spending money on educating "the poor" is a useful endeavour.

So you dont think there are any poor? It would appear not..given you
using quotes around the word

So if the state of Illinois decides to tax you hummm 85% of your income
and spend it on those who wish to get a degree on Elizibethian Sonnets,
or finger painting..you are ok with that.

Right?

So are numerous other things.

From the standpoint of an economist, poverty results generally from
inability of people to be economically useful (as in, perform some
useful function and show up at work sober every day). If they are not
"worth" paying above poverty wages, they would not be paid.

As in not paid because of the life choices of the payee?

So, if we try, in various ways, to make people able to command higher
wages, that is a useful approach.

So think that single mom with the Elizibethan Sonnet degree will be a
productive member of society after graduation?

And everyone can see that medical illness is generally..though not
always...is the result of life choices as well.

My heart attack/bypass/stroke...think that wasnt caused by my poor life
choices in one aspect or another?

This is an excellent point, as well. Sometimes it is indeed the case.

i

Indeed. So you are reduced to disagreeing with (1) sentence in the
quote.

Interesting

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:29:12 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

The life choice is to save money and remain flexible.

That's only valid when your income exceeds your basic cost of living.
Poor families (or individuals) can't -save- money unless they make
more than they need to live on. They've already learned to use store
coupons, cook all their meals (since dining out is EXPENSIVE, even at
fast-food restaurants), buy used cars (and fix them themselves), avoid
brand name items ($12 sneakers beat $265/pair Air Jordans), get food
stamps, shop Goodwill, etc.


You cannot forecast every corporate stupidity.

Verily.

--
Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills.
-- Minna Thomas Antrim

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 05:36:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:29:12 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

The life choice is to save money and remain flexible.

That's only valid when your income exceeds your basic cost of living.
Poor families (or individuals) can't -save- money unless they make
more than they need to live on. They've already learned to use store
coupons, cook all their meals (since dining out is EXPENSIVE, even at
fast-food restaurants), buy used cars (and fix them themselves), avoid
brand name items ($12 sneakers beat $265/pair Air Jordans), get food
stamps, shop Goodwill, etc.

Very well put.

Gunner, wearing Red Wing boots..St Vincents De Paul...$8



You cannot forecast every corporate stupidity.

Verily.

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Larry Jaques on Wed, 03 Nov 2010
05:36:52 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:29:12 -0500, Ignoramus27744
wrote:

The life choice is to save money and remain flexible.

That's only valid when your income exceeds your basic cost of living.
Poor families (or individuals) can't -save- money unless they make
more than they need to live on. They've already learned to use store
coupons, cook all their meals (since dining out is EXPENSIVE, even at
fast-food restaurants), buy used cars (and fix them themselves), avoid
brand name items ($12 sneakers beat $265/pair Air Jordans), get food
stamps, shop Goodwill, etc.

"Shut up and drink your beer, we're too poor to buy milk."

My big gripe when I got laid off was that I had no vices to quit
spending money.

You cannot forecast every corporate stupidity.

Verily.

And amen.

I suspect that many of those who make it through these next few
years will develop the old fashion habits of "thrift".

pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Larry Jaques ? on Wed, 03 Nov 2010
05:36:52 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
?On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:29:12 -0500, Ignoramus27744
? wrote:
?
??The life choice is to save money and remain flexible.
?
?That's only valid when your income exceeds your basic cost of living.
?Poor families (or individuals) can't -save- money unless they make
?more than they need to live on. They've already learned to use store
?coupons, cook all their meals (since dining out is EXPENSIVE, even at
?fast-food restaurants), buy used cars (and fix them themselves), avoid
?brand name items ($12 sneakers beat $265/pair Air Jordans), get food
?stamps, shop Goodwill, etc.

"Shut up and drink your beer, we're too poor to buy milk."

My big gripe when I got laid off was that I had no vices to quit
spending money.

??You cannot forecast every corporate stupidity.
?
?Verily.

And amen.

I suspect that many of those who make it through these next few
years will develop the old fashion habits of "thrift".


Some of us never lost it.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Wed, 03 Nov 2010
19:52:48 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Larry Jaques ? on Wed, 03 Nov 2010
05:36:52 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
?On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:29:12 -0500, Ignoramus27744
? wrote:
?
??The life choice is to save money and remain flexible.
?
?That's only valid when your income exceeds your basic cost of living.
?Poor families (or individuals) can't -save- money unless they make
?more than they need to live on. They've already learned to use store
?coupons, cook all their meals (since dining out is EXPENSIVE, even at
?fast-food restaurants), buy used cars (and fix them themselves), avoid
?brand name items ($12 sneakers beat $265/pair Air Jordans), get food
?stamps, shop Goodwill, etc.

"Shut up and drink your beer, we're too poor to buy milk."

My big gripe when I got laid off was that I had no vices to quit
spending money.

??You cannot forecast every corporate stupidity.
?
?Verily.

And amen.

I suspect that many of those who make it through these next few
years will develop the old fashion habits of "thrift".


Some of us never lost it.

I still have the same one handed down from my Father.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?
?pyotr filipivich wrote:
??
?? I suspect that many of those who make it through these next few
?? years will develop the old fashion habits of "thrift".
?
?
? Some of us never lost it.

I still have the same one handed down from my Father.


I was mowing lawns & working part time in a TV shop at 13 to buy
tools. I not only still have some of those tools, but the same work
ethic and would rather repair or build something than buy it.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:18:39 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?pyotr filipivich wrote:
??
?? I suspect that many of those who make it through these next few ??
years will develop the old fashion habits of "thrift". ?
?
? Some of us never lost it.

I still have the same one handed down from my Father.

I was mowing lawns & working part time in a TV shop at 13 to buy
tools. I not only still have some of those tools, but the same work ethic
and would rather repair or build something than buy it.

I still have the tack hammer that I made in 9th grade metal shop. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise on Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:58:00 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:18:39 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?pyotr filipivich wrote:
??
?? I suspect that many of those who make it through these next few ??
years will develop the old fashion habits of "thrift". ?
?
? Some of us never lost it.

I still have the same one handed down from my Father.

I was mowing lawns & working part time in a TV shop at 13 to buy
tools. I not only still have some of those tools, but the same work ethic
and would rather repair or build something than buy it.

I still have the tack hammer that I made in 9th grade metal shop. ;-)

I came home from woodshop after the first day and said to Dad
"They have straight nails!"

Back in the day, if I made something from scratch, I had to first
make my own scratch.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Rich Grise on Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:58:00 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:18:39 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?pyotr filipivich wrote:
??
?? I suspect that many of those who make it through these next few ??
years will develop the old fashion habits of "thrift". ?
?
? Some of us never lost it.

I still have the same one handed down from my Father.

I was mowing lawns & working part time in a TV shop at 13 to buy
tools. I not only still have some of those tools, but the same work ethic
and would rather repair or build something than buy it.

I still have the tack hammer that I made in 9th grade metal shop. ;-)

I came home from woodshop after the first day and said to Dad
"They have straight nails!"

Back in the day, if I made something from scratch, I had to first
make my own scratch.


I had a neighbor with a produce stand when i was 10. All my lumber
came from produce crates.

About 50 years later, a lot comes from old pallets.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Thu, 04 Nov 2010
19:36:44 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I still have the same one handed down from my Father.

I was mowing lawns & working part time in a TV shop at 13 to buy
tools. I not only still have some of those tools, but the same work ethic
and would rather repair or build something than buy it.

I still have the tack hammer that I made in 9th grade metal shop. ;-)

I came home from woodshop after the first day and said to Dad
"They have straight nails!"

Back in the day, if I made something from scratch, I had to first
make my own scratch.


I had a neighbor with a produce stand when i was 10. All my lumber
came from produce crates.

About 50 years later, a lot comes from old pallets.


"Okay, what do we have in the wood pile, and what can we make from
that?"

Lumber stores, that is where you go when you don't have the pieces
necessary at home.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" on Thu, 04 Nov 2010
19:36:44 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I still have the same one handed down from my Father.

I was mowing lawns & working part time in a TV shop at 13 to buy
tools. I not only still have some of those tools, but the same work ethic
and would rather repair or build something than buy it.

I still have the tack hammer that I made in 9th grade metal shop. ;-)

I came home from woodshop after the first day and said to Dad
"They have straight nails!"

Back in the day, if I made something from scratch, I had to first
make my own scratch.


I had a neighbor with a produce stand when i was 10. All my lumber
came from produce crates.

About 50 years later, a lot comes from old pallets.


"Okay, what do we have in the wood pile, and what can we make from
that?"


Recycling, at it's best. I recently bought a router bit to make
tounge & groove boards out of scrap pallets. I have to replace the
floor in what had been a 'Florida Room'. I need about 400 square feet
of subflooring. I can make it, or spend more money and get 3/4"
plywood. What I save will almost pay for laminate flooring.


Lumber stores, that is where you go when you don't have the pieces
necessary at home.


Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 19:36:44 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

I still have the tack hammer that I made in 9th grade metal shop. ;-)

I came home from woodshop after the first day and said to Dad
"They have straight nails!"

Back in the day, if I made something from scratch, I had to first
make my own scratch.


I had a neighbor with a produce stand when i was 10. All my lumber
came from produce crates.

About 50 years later, a lot comes from old pallets.
There used to be a waiting list at the local grocery store for orange
crates. IIRC the owner used to charge ten cents for them. Many a
kitchen was set up with orange crate cupboards with curtains for
doors. Occasionally they even got a coat of whitewash or possibly even
paint if there happened to be some left over from another project.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Michael A. Terrell" on Thu, 04 Nov 2010
21:11:50 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

About 50 years later, a lot comes from old pallets.


"Okay, what do we have in the wood pile, and what can we make from
that?"


Recycling, at it's best. I recently bought a router bit to make
tounge & groove boards out of scrap pallets. I have to replace the
floor in what had been a 'Florida Room'. I need about 400 square feet
of subflooring. I can make it, or spend more money and get 3/4"
plywood. What I save will almost pay for laminate flooring.


Lumber stores, that is where you go when you don't have the pieces
necessary at home.


Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Have you priced 4x4? I grabbed a bunch when the company got new
machines shipped in.

There was a place in the U district which had the most amazing
shipping crates. 2x6s and the like in odd lengths.

tschus
pyotr

I keep remembering a Candid Camera episode. A table with golf cart
handles on them and a sign "Free. Limit one to a Customer" You could
se people picking them up and thinking "I dunno, but it is free, and
we're only allowed one ..."
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Michael A. Terrell writes:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Hoarding is a species of mental illness. Often found in metalworking
enthusiasts, who like to make instead of buy, involving a neurotic block
against spending money and/or a euphoria from saving money.

I had occasion recently to use a wall-wart power supply saved from 30 years
ago. Rather sobering to get that box of stuff down off the shelf and
realize that in those decades I had collected dozens of such items and (re)
used exactly one.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Have you priced 4x4? I grabbed a bunch when the company got new
machines shipped in.


I bought some PT 6" * 6" recently.


There was a place in the U district which had the most amazing
shipping crates. 2x6s and the like in odd lengths.


A local Mayflower moving company has large plywood crates for sale
for $40. I'm thinking about picking one up to use for a shed. AAdd
some metal roofing and paint, and it will still be cheap.





--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Richard J Kinch wrote:

Michael A. Terrell writes:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Hoarding is a species of mental illness. Often found in metalworking
enthusiasts, who like to make instead of buy, involving a neurotic block
against spending money and/or a euphoria from saving money.


In my case it's either make it, or do without.


I had occasion recently to use a wall-wart power supply saved from 30 years
ago. Rather sobering to get that box of stuff down off the shelf and
realize that in those decades I had collected dozens of such items and (re)
used exactly one.


I have over 500 of them, but I use a lot of them.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Gerald Miller wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 19:36:44 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

I still have the tack hammer that I made in 9th grade metal shop. ;-)

I came home from woodshop after the first day and said to Dad
"They have straight nails!"

Back in the day, if I made something from scratch, I had to first
make my own scratch.


I had a neighbor with a produce stand when i was 10. All my lumber
came from produce crates.

About 50 years later, a lot comes from old pallets.
There used to be a waiting list at the local grocery store for orange
crates. IIRC the owner used to charge ten cents for them. Many a
kitchen was set up with orange crate cupboards with curtains for
doors. Occasionally they even got a coat of whitewash or possibly even
paint if there happened to be some left over from another project.


I have to replace the doors on my kitchen cabinets. I'm looking for
a used planer, so I can make them out of scrap pallets.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Fri, 05 Nov 2010
11:30:34 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Have you priced 4x4? I grabbed a bunch when the company got new
machines shipped in.


I bought some PT 6" * 6" recently.


There was a place in the U district which had the most amazing
shipping crates. 2x6s and the like in odd lengths.


A local Mayflower moving company has large plywood crates for sale
for $40. I'm thinking about picking one up to use for a shed. AAdd
some metal roofing and paint, and it will still be cheap.

I saw a shipping crate which as larger than my apartment (I had a
bed sitter). If I could have moved it, and had a place to put it,
then I would have taken it there and moved in.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
If the world was flat - some would sue about people falling off the edge.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Michael A. Terrell writes:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Hoarding is a species of mental illness. Often found in metalworking
enthusiasts, who like to make instead of buy, involving a neurotic block
against spending money and/or a euphoria from saving money.

I had occasion recently to use a wall-wart power supply saved from 30
years
ago. Rather sobering to get that box of stuff down off the shelf and
realize that in those decades I had collected dozens of such items and
(re) used exactly one.

Yabbut, experience has shown that as soon as you throw something like that
away, you'll need it the next day. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On 2010-11-05, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Michael A. Terrell writes:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Hoarding is a species of mental illness. Often found in metalworking
enthusiasts, who like to make instead of buy, involving a neurotic block
against spending money and/or a euphoria from saving money.

I had occasion recently to use a wall-wart power supply saved from 30 years
ago. Rather sobering to get that box of stuff down off the shelf and
realize that in those decades I had collected dozens of such items and (re)
used exactly one.

I liken it to buying (and hoarding) a box of items worth $100, for
$10, to only use one item worth $3. I recently had a big re-evaluation
of priorities related to this when I was downsizing my garage.

i

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" on Fri, 05 Nov 2010
11:30:34 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Have you priced 4x4? I grabbed a bunch when the company got new
machines shipped in.


I bought some PT 6" * 6" recently.


There was a place in the U district which had the most amazing
shipping crates. 2x6s and the like in odd lengths.


A local Mayflower moving company has large plywood crates for sale
for $40. I'm thinking about picking one up to use for a shed. AAdd
some metal roofing and paint, and it will still be cheap.

I saw a shipping crate which as larger than my apartment (I had a
bed sitter). If I could have moved it, and had a place to put it,
then I would have taken it there and moved in.


You should have just bolted some wheels under it. I'm sure you
could've found some place to park it.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Ignoramus7928 wrote:

On 2010-11-05, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Michael A. Terrell writes:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Hoarding is a species of mental illness. Often found in metalworking
enthusiasts, who like to make instead of buy, involving a neurotic block
against spending money and/or a euphoria from saving money.

I had occasion recently to use a wall-wart power supply saved from 30 years
ago. Rather sobering to get that box of stuff down off the shelf and
realize that in those decades I had collected dozens of such items and (re)
used exactly one.

I liken it to buying (and hoarding) a box of items worth $100, for
$10, to only use one item worth $3. I recently had a big re-evaluation
of priorities related to this when I was downsizing my garage.


Good thing that doesn't affect everyone else.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

One guy I used to know. Invited me to his shop. On the back of the
door was about 50 electrical power cords, cut off gosh knows what. I
also save power cords, and charge plugs. And, and, and.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..

Hoarding is a species of mental illness. Often found in metalworking
enthusiasts, who like to make instead of buy, involving a neurotic
block
against spending money and/or a euphoria from saving money.

I had occasion recently to use a wall-wart power supply saved from 30
years
ago. Rather sobering to get that box of stuff down off the shelf and
realize that in those decades I had collected dozens of such items and
(re)
used exactly one.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

One guy I used to know. Invited me to his shop. On the back of the
door was about 50 electrical power cords, cut off gosh knows what. I
also save power cords, and charge plugs. And, and, and.


ONLY 50? He's an amateur!


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Richard J Kinch on Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:19:22 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Michael A. Terrell writes:

Before the economy imploded I was picking up some 4' * 12' pallets
they shipped A/C units on. I could only haul a couple at a time,
because they were so big but the place was next door to a business that
I was doing free IT work for. I still have quite a few 4" and 6" wide,
12' long boards from them.

Hoarding is a species of mental illness. Often found in metalworking
enthusiasts, who like to make instead of buy, involving a neurotic block
against spending money and/or a euphoria from saving money.

Also found in woodworking enthusiasts.

The term "wood dragon" was coin about me. I knew where every
stick came from, what it was, and what I intended to use it for, when
I go it the time.

I had occasion recently to use a wall-wart power supply saved from 30 years
ago. Rather sobering to get that box of stuff down off the shelf and
realize that in those decades I had collected dozens of such items and (re)
used exactly one.

And there you were, with exactly the wall wart you needed....

Remember,I have a well stocked parts/supply area.
You have a stockpile.
They are hoarding.


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!