OT appliance help OT
 

Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .
Already checked the element , not grounded or shorted . Motor windings
likewise . Checked all wiring for worn or frayed spots , none . One of those
intellidry models with infinite temp control .
Guy at the appliance repair/parts store I buy at sez "I dunno" .
At this stage "I dunno" is all I know too ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:10:37 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .
Already checked the element , not grounded or shorted . Motor windings
likewise . Checked all wiring for worn or frayed spots , none . One of those
intellidry models with infinite temp control .
Guy at the appliance repair/parts store I buy at sez "I dunno" .
At this stage "I dunno" is all I know too ...

WAG they usually put some sort of over temperature protector near the
heating elements, in-line with their power connection. May look similar
to a resister and be clamped down, senses the heat where it is clamped.
Normally they open up (too hot, plugged/restricted exhaust, lint
build-up), but maybe it has shifted or shorted to the clamp area.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

OT appliance help OT
 

On Oct 7, 12:10*pm, "Snag" wrote:
* Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .

Is the computer/control board served by a separate fuse?
A shorted rectifier to make DC for a computer-type switchmode
power supply would have this symptom, sometimes.

OT appliance help OT
 

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:10:37 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .
Already checked the element , not grounded or shorted . Motor windings
likewise . Checked all wiring for worn or frayed spots , none . One of those
intellidry models with infinite temp control .
Guy at the appliance repair/parts store I buy at sez "I dunno" .
At this stage "I dunno" is all I know too ...

WAG they usually put some sort of over temperature protector near the
heating elements, in-line with their power connection. May look similar
to a resister and be clamped down, senses the heat where it is clamped.
Normally they open up (too hot, plugged/restricted exhaust, lint
build-up), but maybe it has shifted or shorted to the clamp area.

Shorted 'start' winding on drive motor?

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/elect...agdryernew.jpg
http://www.repairclinic.com/Maytag-D...tor-Parts?z=50

Older generation schematic is *much* easier to read:
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/elect...agdryerold.jpg

There are many drive motors to choose from and Maytag is *very proud* of
all of them.

(I'm dubious about the fuse or thermostat as a possibility.
Sorry Leon.):
http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDeta...hermostat/2651

Fuse and Thermostat 6th item down:
http://www.repairclinic.com/Maytag-Dryer-Parts

--Winston

OT appliance help OT
 

Winston wrote:
Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:10:37 -0500
"Snag" wrote:

Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .
Already checked the element , not grounded or shorted . Motor
windings likewise . Checked all wiring for worn or frayed spots ,
none . One of those intellidry models with infinite temp control .
Guy at the appliance repair/parts store I buy at sez "I dunno" .
At this stage "I dunno" is all I know too ...

WAG they usually put some sort of over temperature protector near the
heating elements, in-line with their power connection. May look
similar to a resister and be clamped down, senses the heat where it
is clamped. Normally they open up (too hot, plugged/restricted
exhaust, lint build-up), but maybe it has shifted or shorted to the
clamp area.

Shorted 'start' winding on drive motor?

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/elect...agdryernew.jpg
http://www.repairclinic.com/Maytag-D...tor-Parts?z=50

Older generation schematic is *much* easier to read:
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/elect...agdryerold.jpg

There are many drive motors to choose from and Maytag is *very proud*
of all of them.

(I'm dubious about the fuse or thermostat as a possibility.
Sorry Leon.):
http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDeta...hermostat/2651

Fuse and Thermostat 6th item down:
http://www.repairclinic.com/Maytag-Dryer-Parts

--Winston

The wiring/schematics sheet is still with the dryer and it's not that
complicated . Sorry Leon , your solution doesn't fit the symptoms .
Somethin'g shorting both legs to ground at startup , and I can't figger out
what it is .
The motor starts to turn , the fuses blow . He's only got 30A fuses on
this thing , but until recently it's run just fine . I haven't yet found the
spec'd fuse rating , but I'm starting to think that 30's were marginal , and
as the dryer has aged and parts worn , the marginal fuse ain't cuttin' it
anymore . Seems to me that most dryers are set up with a 50 amp breaker ...
and yet , the motor was the only load , I had it on "fluff" with the heater
shut off . Might be the infinite heat control ... I think he's just going to
go get a new unit , this one came with the house and we know nothing of it's
history . We could easily approach the price of a new one throwing parts at
this one .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Winston wrote:


The wiring/schematics sheet is still with the dryer and it's not that
complicated . Sorry Leon , your solution doesn't fit the symptoms .
Somethin'g shorting both legs to ground at startup , and I can't figger
out what it is .
The motor starts to turn , the fuses blow . He's only got 30A fuses on
this thing , but until recently it's run just fine . I haven't yet found
the spec'd fuse rating , but I'm starting to think that 30's were marginal
, and as the dryer has aged and parts worn , the marginal fuse ain't
cuttin' it anymore . Seems to me that most dryers are set up with a 50 amp
breaker ... and yet , the motor was the only load , I had it on "fluff"
with the heater shut off . Might be the infinite heat control ... I think
he's just going to go get a new unit , this one came with the house and we
know nothing of it's history . We could easily approach the price of a new
one throwing parts at this one .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

step 1 - remove belt from motor, set dryer for air only (no heat), try
again, watch motor carefully - could be a short to ground inside the motor,
more likely a problem with the start circuit. Even better if you could
disconnect the element entirely

If the motor won't start and run with no load and no element, then either
there is a short in the wires to the motor (which you can find by feeling
them after the fuse blows - the problem area will be warm), or there is a
failure of the motor start circuit, or a bad motor. I would probably
remove the motor and bench test it - on most maytags the motor comes out
quickly and easily.

If the motor runs with no load, check for undue friction in the drum, if all
is well, with element still off/disconnected, hook belt up and try again

proceed in this manner to isolate the problem

OT appliance help OT
 

Bill Noble wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
Winston wrote:


The wiring/schematics sheet is still with the dryer and it's not that
complicated . Sorry Leon , your solution doesn't fit the symptoms .
Somethin'g shorting both legs to ground at startup , and I can't
figger out what it is .
The motor starts to turn , the fuses blow . He's only got 30A fuses
on this thing , but until recently it's run just fine . I haven't
yet found the spec'd fuse rating , but I'm starting to think that
30's were marginal , and as the dryer has aged and parts worn , the
marginal fuse ain't cuttin' it anymore . Seems to me that most
dryers are set up with a 50 amp breaker ... and yet , the motor was
the only load , I had it on "fluff" with the heater shut off . Might
be the infinite heat control ... I think he's just going to go get a
new unit , this one came with the house and we know nothing of it's
history . We could easily approach the price of a new one throwing
parts at this one . --
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

step 1 - remove belt from motor, set dryer for air only (no heat), try
again, watch motor carefully - could be a short to ground inside the
motor, more likely a problem with the start circuit. Even better if
you could disconnect the element entirely


Last test was with the drum removed , the timer on "fluff" (no heat) and
the heat control all the way down . HmmmPOP the motoer starts to turn , the
fuses blow .

If the motor won't start and run with no load and no element, then
either there is a short in the wires to the motor (which you can find
by feeling them after the fuse blows - the problem area will be
warm), or there is a failure of the motor start circuit, or a bad
motor. I would probably remove the motor and bench test it - on
most maytags the motor comes out quickly and easily.

I've inspected the wires , all the way . No insulation breaks , no chafing
.. The motor windings have the proper (approximate) resistance and are not
grounded . And a motor fault would only blow the fuse on that leg ...

If the motor runs with no load, check for undue friction in the drum,
if all is well, with element still off/disconnected, hook belt up and
try again
proceed in this manner to isolate the problem

I'm thinking it's in the controls , some of which are pretty spendy .
Timer is OK , haven't opened the others . Got 'lectronics ...

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Bill Noble wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
Winston wrote:

snip
I've inspected the wires , all the way . No insulation breaks , no chafing
. The motor windings have the proper (approximate) resistance and are not
grounded . And a motor fault would only blow the fuse on that leg ...

If the motor runs with no load, check for undue friction in the drum,
if all is well, with element still off/disconnected, hook belt up and
try again
proceed in this manner to isolate the problem

I'm thinking it's in the controls , some of which are pretty spendy .
Timer is OK , haven't opened the others . Got 'lectronics ...

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

let's assume for a minute that it is NOT the motor - disconnect the wires
going to the element, so the element is NOT in the circuit, and inspect the
board that drives the element - I'd expect it to have a relay to energize
the element - look at how the board is powered and trace the 220v across the
board (with power off - follow the circuit traces) - if possible, disconnect
the side that doesn't power the motor (is the motor really 110?, usually a
220V connection doesn't include a neutral) -

or, as an alternative, unplug the motor and try turning it on - if it blows
a fuse with the motor not connected you can pretty well rule out the motor.
You can substitute a lamp for the motor so you can see when it's energized

OT appliance help OT
 

Snag wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu, 7 Oct 2010 15:58:07 -0500:

Might be the infinite heat control ...

That would be my guess. Can you disconnect it and try it then?
You say fuses, but to you mean circuit breaker? They can go bad over
time, and they are built to open rather than not open.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

OT appliance help OT
 

dan wrote:
Snag wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu, 7 Oct 2010 15:58:07 -0500:

Might be the infinite heat control ...

That would be my guess. Can you disconnect it and try it then?
You say fuses, but to you mean circuit breaker? They can go bad over
time, and they are built to open rather than not open.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

The house the boy bought still has fuses ... and tomorrow or saturday I'll
be shopping for a new dryer with him .
He believed us when we told him "save money , then when the (insert
appliance , etc) dies , it'll be an inconvenience and not a disaster" .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

"Snag" wrote in message
...
dan wrote:
Snag wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu, 7 Oct 2010 15:58:07 -0500:

Might be the infinite heat control ...

That would be my guess. Can you disconnect it and try it then?
You say fuses, but to you mean circuit breaker? They can go bad over
time, and they are built to open rather than not open.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

The house the boy bought still has fuses ... and tomorrow or saturday I'll
be shopping for a new dryer with him .
He believed us when we told him "save money , then when the (insert
appliance , etc) dies , it'll be an inconvenience and not a disaster" .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !


if the house has gas, that is a much cheaper way to dry clothes

OT appliance help OT
 

The homeowner should be shopping for a new service panel, even before a new
dryer.
Around here (western PA), banks won't finance, and I don't think insurers
will cover a structure with a fused service panel.

Motors can develop insulation current leakage which a DMM resistance test
will not indicate. A motor with suspected leakage needs to be checked at
operating voltage (or better yet, Hi-pot tested with a Megger-type tester).
Contamination inside the motor can cause leakage paths.

It's likely that something else may be involved in the overall scenario. As
you suggested, a 120V motor probably wouldn't take out both fuses.

Fuse box hardware generally always loosens with age. Vibration (even though
it's not felt continuously) and thermal cycling will lead to loose
fasteners.. especially when many fused panels are over 40 years old.
Loose fasteners anywhere in a circuit will increase the resistance in
circuits, and usually break down from excess heat.

A qualified, experienced and knowledgeable electrician should replace the
service panel.. if a homeowner fits that description, that person could
probably perform the installation in a couple of hours.

--
WB
..........


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .
Already checked the element , not grounded or shorted . Motor windings
likewise . Checked all wiring for worn or frayed spots , none . One of
those intellidry models with infinite temp control .
Guy at the appliance repair/parts store I buy at sez "I dunno" .
At this stage "I dunno" is all I know too ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

Snag wrote:

(...)

Somethin'g shorting both legs to ground at startup , and I can't figger out
what it is .

I changed my mind. Shorted heater element. Disconnect the 'high limit'
switch and I bet it fluffs just fine.

(...)

I think he's just going to go get a new unit , this one came with the house
and we know nothing of it's history . We could easily approach the price
of a new one throwing parts at this one .

Good call. Perhaps Craigslist?


--Winston

OT appliance help OT
 

Bill Noble wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
dan wrote:
Snag wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu, 7 Oct 2010 15:58:07 -0500:

Might be the infinite heat control ...

That would be my guess. Can you disconnect it and try it then?
You say fuses, but to you mean circuit breaker? They can go bad
over time, and they are built to open rather than not open.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

The house the boy bought still has fuses ... and tomorrow or
saturday I'll be shopping for a new dryer with him .
He believed us when we told him "save money , then when the (insert
appliance , etc) dies , it'll be an inconvenience and not a
disaster" . --
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !


if the house has gas, that is a much cheaper way to dry clothes

It does , and his cousin the gas-certified plumber lives there with him .
Wonder if we can talk him into plumbing the gas in lieu of rent ... since
he's not busy right now and is behind on rent !

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

Winston wrote:
Snag wrote:

(...)

Somethin'g shorting both legs to ground at startup , and I can't
figger out what it is .

I changed my mind. Shorted heater element. Disconnect the 'high
limit' switch and I bet it fluffs just fine.

(...)

--Winston

My meter sez it'n not grounded anywhere in that circuit . Pretty much
narrowed it down now to one of the control devices , and the ones it could
be are both spendy . He doesn't wanna mess with it , and he's got the money
saved for a replacement unit . Smart boy !
Plus I'll get some more nice flat sheet metal stock for my pile ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

Wild_Bill wrote:
The homeowner should be shopping for a new service panel, even before
a new dryer.

snipped

A qualified, experienced and knowledgeable electrician should replace
the service panel.. if a homeowner fits that description, that person
could probably perform the installation in a couple of hours.

--
WB


A replacement panel is in his plans , and he's saving towards it . It took
me a half-day to replace mine , had to modify the conduit runs because the
new box is (quite) a bit larger than the original ... his is going to be
more of the same , plus his is recessed into the wall and not in an easy
spot to get at .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

OT appliance help OT
 

Snag wrote:
Winston wrote:
Snag wrote:

(...)

Somethin'g shorting both legs to ground at startup , and I can't
figger out what it is .
I changed my mind. Shorted heater element. Disconnect the 'high
limit' switch and I bet it fluffs just fine.

(...)

--Winston

My meter sez it'n not grounded anywhere in that circuit .

Just FWIW, (as a thought exercise only) you could cut the ground pin
off of the dryer plug and still take out both fuses if the heater
element were shorted. (Short L1 to L2 and things get sparky.)

narrowed it down now to one of the control devices , and the ones it could
be are both spendy . He doesn't wanna mess with it , and he's got the money
saved for a replacement unit . Smart boy !

I agree. (Freecycle, Estate sale, Craigslist)

Plus I'll get some more nice flat sheet metal stock for my pile ...

Cool.

--Winston

OT appliance help OT
 

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:



A replacement panel is in his plans , and he's saving towards it . It
took me a half-day to replace mine , had to modify the conduit runs
because the new box is (quite) a bit larger than the original ... his is
going to be more of the same , plus his is recessed into the wall and not
in an easy spot to get at .

--
Snag

depending on the exact situation, you can mount the replacement panel
elsewhere, run large conduit to the old fuse panel, and just use the fuse
box as a junction box. Frequently, the new box needs to be outside because
it has the meter as part of the box, so most of these have a group of
circuits that feed the old fuse box, and then additional circuits to feed
other new stuff that is direct and not routed through the fuse box

OT appliance help OT
 

On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:37:55 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Oct 7, 12:10*pm, "Snag" wrote:
* Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .

Is the computer/control board served by a separate fuse?
A shorted rectifier to make DC for a computer-type switchmode
power supply would have this symptom, sometimes.

Please explain how a blown fuse would short the other two out.
?

--
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
--Jack London

OT appliance help OT
 

On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 14:44:01 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:37:55 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd wrote:
On Oct 7, 12:10Â*pm, "Snag" wrote:
Â* Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go button .

Is the computer/control board served by a separate fuse? A shorted
rectifier to make DC for a computer-type switchmode power supply would
have this symptom, sometimes.

Please explain how a blown fuse would short the other two out. ?

I think that isn't what whit3rd is suggesting (although it's possible for
a big fuse to spray metal onto other circuits, if given high enough
current and voltage) . Instead, the question probably is where the
control board is in the circuit, relative to the fuses.

--
jiw

OT appliance help OT
 

I haven't been watching this - but is there a start capacitor and a run ?
If so - might be a dry cap - replace them with correct values and it might run.
A start cap goes in series with the start winding and for ac, effectively drops
the 'ac resistance' of the winding allowing more current to flow.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 10/7/2010 4:26 PM, Bill Noble wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message ...
Winston wrote:


The wiring/schematics sheet is still with the dryer and it's not that
complicated . Sorry Leon , your solution doesn't fit the symptoms . Somethin'g
shorting both legs to ground at startup , and I can't figger out what it is .
The motor starts to turn , the fuses blow . He's only got 30A fuses on this
thing , but until recently it's run just fine . I haven't yet found the spec'd
fuse rating , but I'm starting to think that 30's were marginal , and as the
dryer has aged and parts worn , the marginal fuse ain't cuttin' it anymore .
Seems to me that most dryers are set up with a 50 amp breaker ... and yet ,
the motor was the only load , I had it on "fluff" with the heater shut off .
Might be the infinite heat control ... I think he's just going to go get a new
unit , this one came with the house and we know nothing of it's history . We
could easily approach the price of a new one throwing parts at this one .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

step 1 - remove belt from motor, set dryer for air only (no heat), try again,
watch motor carefully - could be a short to ground inside the motor, more likely
a problem with the start circuit. Even better if you could disconnect the
element entirely

If the motor won't start and run with no load and no element, then either there
is a short in the wires to the motor (which you can find by feeling them after
the fuse blows - the problem area will be warm), or there is a failure of the
motor start circuit, or a bad motor. I would probably remove the motor and bench
test it - on most maytags the motor comes out quickly and easily.

If the motor runs with no load, check for undue friction in the drum, if all is
well, with element still off/disconnected, hook belt up and try again

proceed in this manner to isolate the problem

OT appliance help OT
 

On Oct 8, 2:44*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:37:55 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:
* Maytag dryer , blows BOTH fuses as soon as you push the go
button .

Is the computer/control board served by a separate fuse?
A *shorted rectifier to make DC for a computer-type switchmode
power supply would have this symptom, sometimes.

Please explain how a blown fuse would short the other two out.
?

If there's a separate (low-rated) fuse on the input to the control
logic, it wouldn't
blow the (larger) fuses you're seeing go out. If there ISN'T a
separate
fuse there, the control logic's power inlet could be a suspect.
That's why it's worth checking to see if there is a separate fuse.